Hackspace Move: Design'o'space

[Samwise Wilson]

Attached is a rough PDF of the potential new space layout. 

Design away!

For scale, the large room is approx 22m long. 

[Andy51055]

Cheers, Sam. It looks like we'll have three of the current spaces plus workshops. Lots to play with :)

[Daniel F]

Can someone explain to a thickie like me what the squares and hexagrams mean please?

Are we still planning on taking out the lower toilets? I assume as there's already water/waste to that room we turn that into the kitchen?

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Andy51055 <you...@51055.com> wrote:

Cheers, Sam. It looks like we'll have three of the current spaces plus workshops. Lots to play with :)

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[Samwise Wilson]

The square in the middle of the room is a column, I didn't have actual symbols for electric but the hexagons are rough positions of the current electric in the main room. 

Im going to update this model soon as its not actually correct. 

[Samwise Wilson]

Heres the more accurate one!

[Andy51055]

Cheers Sam. I'll have a play around with that later.

Is there a similar design of the current space available? It might be useful to be able to show them side by side in any layout proposal to give people an idea of what size spaces we're dealing with by comparison. It's not easy to imagine what a place will look/feel like with only numbers to work from.

[Daniel Fligg]

Here's everything I have for Mabgate Green. There's a scale on the "conversion plans pdf" but it might be worth breaking out a tape measure in the current space to get a proper scale for it.

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Andy51055 <you...@51055.com> wrote:

Cheers Sam. I'll have a play around with that later.

Is there a similar design of the current space available? It might be useful to be able to show them side by side in any layout proposal to give people an idea of what size spaces we're dealing with by comparison. It's not easy to imagine what a place will look/feel like with only numbers to work from.

--

[Andy51055]

Here is a comparison of the current space and the space-to be: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/Hackspaces%20comparison.pdf

I think the general idea is to leave the toilets at the far end and remove the ones further in. This will leave 4 rooms which will have a larger total area than the current workshop for various sorts of work: messy/wood, clean/metal, clean/hot, clean/wet. I don't think it's set yet, but that was the last I heard.

This leaves an enormous amount of space (relatively) for computing, electronics, social etc.in the big room. For sound dampening and general sensory comfort this space should be divided up.

Which is what this thread is about. What do we want space for?

[Aidan Dunbar]

A few of us sat down at the open evening last night and scribbled on bits of paper. Samwise kindly turned it into something digital. I've added some notes to the page. The floor from the kitchen down to the pillar (or thereabouts) is a concrete floor. The rest below that is some form of parquet flooring that needs some love.

For the benefit of members not on Slack or IRC: https://imgur.com/FaO9Cym

Input welcome.

Aidan

--

[Andy51055]

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 8:51:50 PM UTC+1, Aidan wrote:

 The rest below that is some form of parquet flooring that needs some love.

Oh shit. The only real way to renovate a parquet floor is to take it up, clean and sand each piece and relay it. A once in a lifetime job, even with the grinder.

What areas do we need? From what I can see, the needed and wanted areas are:
Metalwork
Woodwork (these two separate to keep sawdust out of lathes, etc.)
Electrics work
Hot work (kiln, forge, welding, etc.)
Wet work (brewing, dyeing, possible photography, etc.)
Laptop work (the current main space)
Teaching space (can be same as laptop)
Chill zone (sofas, chat, eat and relative quiet)
Screen zone (could be same as laptop/teaching or chill or both)
Kitchen
Toilets
Display area to show past /ongoing projects

What more/less is wanted/needed?

[tenst...@me.com]

Lighting - I can't remember what is in there at the moment but I doubt it is adequate. I found this http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/estimating-your-workshop-lighting-needs-t29154.html which looks a useful starting point for working out what's needed in each area.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Plan looks great but I'd say Chill space looks huge, considering we dumped the last one cos no one really used it and my entire purpose for attending the hackspace is to work on a project. As nice as it sounds but we are paying a lot of money to increase our working space if we want a social then use the teaching space when it's not in use or go down the pub? I'd concerntrate on moving into the space with as little (or cheaply) as possible and try using the areas before committing to building massive amounts of walls. Planning usable space is incredibly difficult when using scaled plans with objects too scale. Yes put a plan together yes get the place habitable but then settle in for a few weeks. You need to consider building regs and fire risk assessments which effect escape routes and are statutory (I.e. Legal) requirements. Just to wire it for ring mains and lighting you can easily spend £1000 without breaking a sweat.

[Andy51055]

Replacing panels in the suspended ceiling with LED panels shouldn't be hard or too expensive.

My initial layout plan: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/Andy%20layout%201.pdf

[Samwise Wilson]

Notes for all:

Plumbing is at current toilet rooms (wet / kitchen area) - ventilation is needed for some tools, so will have to be near the outside bits. 

The wall around the current toilet is probably not removable. 

[tenst...@me.com]

I had a go at estimating for what light fittings we might need for each area. Done with the aid of the internet, so if anyone does lighting design for work pls comment!

[Andy51055]

Cheers for that.

If we went for 600 x 600 led ceiling panels from these numbers we would need 16 as they are rated 3000 to 3600 lumens. At around £25 each (including drivers) that would come to around £400, though alibaba may be able to save us something on that. We could even have them dimmable in the chillspace (and elsewhere) if we wanted.

I have 6 1800 lumen 300 x 600 panels that I'm happy to loan to the space until I find a use for them. I was thinking about mounting them along the long wall on the left as you go in. I was also thinking of cutting stained glass designs out of vinyl to stick to them but that will have to wait.

[Jon Stockill]

On 18.05.2016 22:09, Andy51055 wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 8:51:50 PM UTC+1, Aidan wrote:
>
>> The rest below that is some form of parquet flooring that needs
>> some love.
>
> Oh shit. The only real way to renovate a parquet floor is to take it
> up, clean and sand each piece and relay it. A once in a lifetime job,
> even with the grinder.
>
> What areas do we need? From what I can see, the needed and wanted
> areas are:
> Metalwork
> Woodwork (these two separate to keep sawdust out of lathes, etc.)
> Electrics work
> Hot work (kiln, forge, welding, etc.)
> Wet work (brewing, dyeing, possible photography, etc.)

Would be very handy to be able to make the wet area light proof for use
as a darkroom.

--
Jon Stockill
li...@stockill.net

[J C]

Nav as part of the spending plan I believe myself and Aiden put the darkroom on the list of - well there seems no reason not to so let's just do it :)

[Aidan Dunbar]

And by means of "on the spending plan" it's very light on spending, I have eqt to donate to the space.

A

[Samwise Wilson]

An effective darkroom requires space, gotta get your enlarger somewhere.  Processing film is crap unless you can print it too. 

Current wet room idea wouldn't be hard to make light proof at all though! 

[Samwise Wilson]

I also like Onlyhalfdone's suggestion of using as much space as possible for work. Letting layout develop organically would also be good, as planning attempts all follow the same kind of formula (vent rooms here, wet rooms here, etc). We know the basic work that has to be done immediately, we have a lengthy rent-free period to adapt the newspace(tm) as need be.

[Andy51055]

One way of getting a feel for the spaces and how they work is to temporarily divide areas off by hanging paint sheets. They're huge and cheap and can be easily changed around to work out how the areas feel. And they're useful later when we start throwing paint around.

Speaking of painting, I'm more than happy to spend stupid numbers of hours painting and decorating when the time comes. And building a folding wall (though that shouldn't take long at all).

[tenst...@me.com]

Like the idea of dimmable lights in some areas - good for teaching space as well as chill space. LED lighting has changed what's possible, hurrah. 

(we could have a feature light heheh http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-60cm-Modern-Chrome-LED-Flush-Pendant-Ceiling-Light-Chandelier-Fitting-UK-/381416174478)

The panels sound very fine, although would they be dazzling at eye height?

[Onlyhalfdone]

What we really need is some star lights that have colour changing led's in them! I have some not sure how many possibly 7 600 X 600 LED light panels with controllers, movement sensors and emergency battery backup kicking around somewhere. I also have a selection of small round led panel lights around 200mm diameter you can play with to assess if any use but u can't keep the small ones.

[tmp...@gmail.com]

Just a quick reminder that rotating machinery (lathes, drills etc) needs flicker free lighting or strobing <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroboscopic_effect> can occur which makes moving machines appear to be stationary. This rules out fluorescents in these areas.

[Geoff Baldwin]

I think that you will find the any mains powered lighting will strobe to some extent but none that I'm aware of will make moving machinery appear to stand still.

[Geoff Baldwin]

I now eat my words as the lighting designers where I work have confirmed that this can be a problem. There are a number of solutions i.e. install HF flourecents, Son or HQI (metal halide) units or if three phase is available you can wire alternate rows of lighting on different phases. I personally have used the hackspace lathe on a number of occasions and have not found strobing to be a problem though.

On 24 May 2016 at 10:17, <tmp...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tom Oldbury (Email #2)]

Many cheaper LED bulbs using simple series capacitor ballasts can strobe too. The Costco ones don't though, I've found them to be very decent.

I've a 1000fps camera if anyone wants to borrow it and see if anything is strobing.

[Aidan Dunbar]

This is something we can look into. HF fluorescent or good LED isn't particularly expensive. The current space lighting does not have a problem with strobing - the lathe has been used late at night on many occasions at a variety of speeds with no issue. There is also an incandescent bulb on the lathe.

Primarily this is a problem for factories and machine shops where environmental noise and vibration may mask the fact that the machine is running, but that's not to say we should ignore it.

[Samwise Wilson]

High frequency ballasts, like 400hz remove this problem. 

[Tom Oldbury (Email #2)]

Incandescent is usually ok, as the thermal mass of the filament is pretty large, but obviously uses a fair bit of power.

[Onlyhalfdone]

It's not a problem until it happens then someone looses a hand... Just saying.

[stethe...@googlemail.com]

If its not loose its prefectly possible to machine sand a parquet floor and re varnish

[Tim Pinder]

Slight diversion - large worktop listed on Wakey Freecycle:

Relisted on the off chance, before I chop it up for bonfire: 

Used, large breakfast bar piece: 2150mm x 900mm x 40mm, beech finish.
Has been used as breakfast bar for past 14 years, now replaced. Clean enough, one corner slightly chipped, opposite diagonal corner has 50mm chamfer. Has one 10mm hole drilled in middle where a cabinet support pole was fixed. 
Would make very sturdy worktop / benchtop in workshop or garage. Or cut for seriously sturdy shelves. 
Please take it away, its big and bloomin' heavy. 

I can’t transport anything this size - the back of my Focus Estate only goes to 1700mm.

Is this something we’d want for the new space?

Donor is wavey...@gmail.com

Tim

[J C]

Sounds good but hard to transport in the very near future unless someone has a van or large car that could take it?

[Robin Wood]

I've mentioned it before but for short term van hire, the B&Q/Costco vans are great, last time I checked just £14/hour + mileage

http://www.diy.com/hertz247/

Robin

[YouMustBe Joking]

That's what I thought. Seems a shame to waste it though. 

Thought: I do have a hand held circular saw so could roughly cut it in two which would make it fit my car but less useful for the 'space. 

I will ask donor if he could hang on for a couple of days before he tries (and probably fails) to burn it. If suitable transport found then I guess we have a use, else is 1700 best size or should I aim to make two roughly equal pieces (or some other ratio)?

T

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[James Walker]

I'm guessing any hosted events (e.g. workshops, classes) will be done by pulling back the folding wall, and combining the table and showoff areas?

In that case it might be worth making the tables/chairs in those rooms collapsible / wheelable so we can easily move and rearrange them.

On Wednesday, 18 May 2016 22:50:52 UTC+1, Andy51055 wrote:

[Onlyhalfdone]

Just curious where this sliding / folding wall is coming from?

[Andy51055]

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 5:31:42 PM UTC+1, Onlyhalfdone wrote:

Just curious where this sliding / folding wall is coming from?

My head. The idea was, as James said above, to have a variable space depending on what's needed. The rectangular area that you come straight into from the front doors was suggested as a showoff area for new members/open days, but it seemed like a good idea to be able to make it into a larger space to allow for projects that need big space and easy access to the front doors (big geodesic domes were being talked about at the time.
And the last section can act as a door on the left-hand side.

Also they're really easy to make, consisting of a frame, 2 full sheets of thin ply, some big hinges and old sofa casters. And I'd really like to make some. I also have two Victorian sash window counterweights that could be used to make them auto-open or -close if we want.

[Aidan Dunbar]

It's just a suggestion on Andy's plan at the moment.

I'm personally against folding/sliding walls. I spend a lot of time using/troubleshooting/working around them at work and no matter how well designed or expensive they are they either break constantly or are difficult to use.

Not to mention the extra opportunity for finger amputation.

A

> On May 25, 2016, at 17:31, Onlyhalfdone <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just curious where this sliding / folding wall is coming from?
>

[Onlyhalfdone]

Personally I want to move away from anything cobbled together. No offence Andy I'm sure it would work but I think we are spending a lot of money to add value to the space then what we install should look professional / be propriety products. If this means progressing the installation of fit out over a longer time period as we save / raise funds then this is the direction I'd steer the fit out.

Folding doors are notoriously problematic requiring very tight tolerances on floor finishes or if top hung require the same but from the ceiling also. Also what's the purpose of them? Purely segregation? Dust proof? Sound attenuation? Fire proofing? I don't know the requirements but if it's sound / dust / fire then you are completely wasting your time trying to make something. Propriety products cost £1000's and are still only semi successful at this. My current set cost £30k and weigh 3500kg for a set in a school hall. Not quite the same I know but these are specialist products. I have other suggestions that may surfice if opening is only a 2.5m wide and 2.1m high.

Fit outs cost money, I have no idea the budget we have but with some careful planning (and elbow grease) we can get a very high quality for our money.

[Andy51055]

Fair enough. I wasn't thinking of anything expensive or hugely 'professional', more a 'we made this' feel that would cost as little as possible as I thought that money would be very scarce for quite a while. And it would be a suitable surface for putting up notices/displays which everyone would see as soon as they come in the door.

"My current set cost £30k and weigh 3500kg for a set in a school hall. Not quite the same I know but these are specialist products. I have other suggestions that may surfice if opening is only a 2.5m wide and 2.1m high."

The idea was to cost less than 1% of that and weigh a similar fraction. Light and solely as a divider rather than insulation (sound/dust) or fire-proofing, so tolerances don't need to be tight. Though Aidan's worry of finger-crushing would still be a possibility. The opening (as far as I know) is 4.9m wide x 2.4m high.

[James Walker]

Folding doors or no, would prefer to make the tables easily foldable or movable - ones in Mabgate are too bulky to be moved easily.

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Thanks,

James Walker

[Andy51055]

Yes, making the space as variable/adaptable as possible would seem sensible, so that it can adapt with time/needs and not limit its use. Though obviously there have to be parts that are absolutely static such as workbenches and dust-/light-/fire-proof zones, it would be good to not limit ourselves in other respects.

[James Walker]

Can put static stuff - e.g workbenches around the walls, and leave the centre rearrangeable.

On 25 May 2016 at 20:27, Andy51055 <you...@51055.com> wrote:

Yes, making the space as variable/adaptable as possible would seem sensible, so that it can adapt with time/needs and not limit its use. Though obviously there have to be parts that are absolutely static such as workbenches and dust-/light-/fire-proof zones, it would be good to not limit ourselves in other respects.

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Thanks,

James Walker

[Samwise Wilson]

Does no-one know a decent architect / wayfinder / int designer? I find this very surprising. 

On Thursday, 5 May 2016 11:23:12 UTC+1, Samwise Wilson wrote:

Attached is a rough PDF of the potential new space layout. 

Design away!

For scale, the large room is approx 22m long. 

[Andy51055]

What are you wanting from them? I've put out a layout plan with my suggestions and a couple of people have come back with objections (is a chill space needed and folding walls = bad) but there doesn't seem to be much discussion happening other than listing what is wanted/ needed which I tried to incorporate in the plan. With no idea of what the consensus is or the budget, it's not easy to go much further. We need to have agreed a layout before we can plan any wiring/wall removal and/or building/lighting/plumbing etc., etc. Then we can work out how much we can afford to do initially and what will have to wait.

Maybe we should have an AGM-type meeting to get it all fixed.

[YouMustBe Joking]

Extraordinary General Meeting you mean?

I think this would definitely be merited, particularly if people had some concrete suggestions of what needs to go where, what the budget is and what is a realistic timescale to bring the new space into use. 

I've found that it's very easy to find fault but far harder to come up with positive ideas. 

Personally I liked Andy's plan but without seeing the space it's hard to get a measure of what alternatives might be possible or desirable. 

Tim

[Andy51055]

Maybe an EGM at the new space as soon as we get it?
With some paint sheets, gaffer and step ladders we can try out various layouts to see what people like. Some chalk and tape measures and we can mark out where tables, etc would go. This should give people as good an idea as possible of how the space would work. Virtual versions on screen never get across the feel of the space. If only there was a virtual reality system we could access...

[Samwise Wilson]

First a update:

Lack of vitamin D? You want more natural light? People mistaking you for a vampire and trying to stake you all the time?

WE GOT YOU COVERED.

MORE NATURAL LIGHT.

More skylights will be coming (at base cost!), maybe for the move, maybe not. 

Secondly:

AT THE MOMENT a meeting won't bring us any closer to a design of the potential new space. Too many things that can't be immediately answered then and there can change the outcome, thus rendering the egm moot. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻!

We are focusing on securing the new space and then making it a shell in order to move+improve - there are certain elements that have to be in certain places, like drainage (shithub), ventilation (lasers), light (anti-vampires), solid walls (Victorians) and a few things that need doing no matter what happens (flagpole/painting/utilities). Only after these have been clarified and executed is when we will know what is left in the budget, what our skillbase is capable of taking on and the timeframe for space completion (tm). The last thing we want to do is to create a pressure for overcommitment of funds or people that we then can't deliver on, especially when we so carefully negotiated 3 months of leeway.

Personally I kind of what to spark off a "fight for your stuff!" type mentality where everyone really pushes for their particular thing to get attention; I think there is historic precedence (both here and at other hackspsaces) for instance to dedicated alot of room to "chill" then complain that work zones are too fragmented or small. Nothing wrong with a larger dedicated workshop, as mess can be contained and on a whole the space becomes more useable. - In this regard designing space to be physically flexible is bad, but designing a space to be utilised flexibly is good! (lol?)

This is why I wanted to see if we had access to particular skill sets where people design space to be used in a work capacity for maximum benefit - having been involved with alot of these types of agencies / skills at work recently I can thoroughly say I am a convert and these people are worth their weight in "hipster" gold. 

All in all, BE PREPARED, EXCITED, SYNERGISTIC. There will be stuff to do (and demolish) from day 1 to prep the space for improvement and more clarity coming when details have been firmed up. In any case the space itself lends to natural partitions of major functions (it has a back room corridor!!) so even if we design nothing we are on a winner. 

P.S. 

flagpole, enough said.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lPJ9J-6vDw

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[tmp...@gmail.com]

22m. That's huge!

Well, think in terms of a standard 3 bed semi being about 100m^2. There's a lot can be done there if the space is divided appropriately.

I'm not up on the current Wiring Regs (my qualifications are pre-millennium) but what is the supply and DB like?

Tim

[Christopher Stanton]

Replicate what we currently have, then redesign it after 6 months to see what the priorities then are.

The only 'fixed' things I can see which should govern any of this, are required safety features or functions of the workshop and then design around them. Like an appropriate sink that isn't for the kitchen, suitable ventilation for paints, aerosols and the laser cutter, clean and appropriate door and particle separation from the kitchen area and the same from sanitary necessities like the toilet.

If there's a tool that can just let us transpose what we currently have, to the new space and then let us accommodate for these factors and see what we have left, I would find that easier to work with. Making with the pretty and improvements can come after.

MORE NATURAL LIGHT.

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[Samwise Wilson]

It has a single phase supply and a modern DB. DB is 3 phase capable (other nearby units have 3 phase).

[Onlyhalfdone]

It's only a single phase supply? I thought it had a three phase board? we never looked at the meter, do you know where it is?

[Tim Pinder]

I like your thinking but there are some pretty serious drawbacks:

Simply replicating the existing space doesn’t make adding new facilities easier - it makes it harder because inevitably *stuff* will end up being temporarily stored dumped in the “unused” parts.

Any building works really need to be done before the space is in use; not doing so makes it more difficult for the builder and means disruption for members using the space, not to mention the risk of dust and debris getting into sensitive and delicate equipment.

Tim

[Samwise Wilson]

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNJ2kmtgfCUd7qwXtMYEe0G3chI8CdAeyszIKLHQCX0sOku1nFsfKgQc18tF5aN5Q/photo/AF1QipM0OUuEt60egws85BNgjJUQwovdZok5kK_aD-sG?key=c0QybEFGTXJiSW4yMnJWaUFmTDNsbktWVlNVZE13

[Tim Pinder]

Thanks @swwils: 100A supply, 12 way board then. Can’t do much in terms of large current using machinery then :( It might be advisable to run sub mains to more local DBs and possibly put all lighting on one DB.

What are our emergency lighting obligations?

Tim

[Onlyhalfdone]

I'm up Tuesday evening around 6pm til late. If we have the room layout I'll 3D cad it if that's a help, create all the machinery to scale, draw on operators working zones / access requirements. We can then use this to drop ceiling grid / lighting small power data etc on. If there are any volunteers they can help drawing the machinery and I'll import them. I'll do it in sketch up so anyone can edit it. We can layer everything so you will be able to turn different objects on and off.

You can then visualise everything to scale, drop people in work out desk / chair space. If you need any guidance on construction materials / techniques I'll bring some prices / designs of stand wall make ups and someone can work out the quantities and costs (it's as easy to work out 1.2m length of a standard board then just multiply as required).

I can also come up Wednesday 6pm til late also if that helps. Wife's away so this is a very restricted window of opportunity for me 😀

Or can run through risk assessment or both.

[Tim Pinder]

I’d really like to have a look at that - Wednesday is likely to be better for me.
I’ve not used SketchUp or anything like that before so be prepared for some pretty dumb questions :(

Tim

[J C]

Thanks Andy that sounds good see you on Tuesday

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[Andy51055]

I have an accurate vector layout of the place, what format is most importable for sketchup? I'll try to measure and draw up all the workbenches, tables, cupboards, etc.  before Tuesday so that they'll just need extruding. If that's any use; maybe drawing them straight into 3d would be faster, I don't know.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Andy that's fantastic, if anyone wants to help on sketch up which is dead easy, just grab a machine and pre load it for Tuesday, we can just transfer individual models across into the main model. I've got a spare Windows laptop which I can bring along if needed.

You can create walk / fly through with sketch up plus crest cuts directly through diffent planes it's very fun (and also frustrating) to use.

See you Tuesday and Wednesday.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Andy, if would say just draw machines direct into sketch up

Does anyone have the existing tiled ceiling height and also height to underside of concrete?

[Samwise Wilson]

All items you need will be in the sketchup 3d warehouse - they even have an atlas lathe on there. 

[Andy51055]

Too late ;) Measurements for benches and big tools/machines here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/Hackspace%20workshop%20measurements.pdf

I have a huge mental block about drawing in 3d, but maybe now is the time to try and push past it.

I'm fairly sure someone said that the ceiling was 2.5 metres, which was why I thought of the folding wall made from full boards.

[Andy51055]

oops, forgot to add the layout file: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/potential%20layout.dwg

[Samwise Wilson]

That layout isn't viable because a few of the walls in the kitchen area are not moveable and certain stuff needs to be vented into the outside areas. 

[Onlyhalfdone]

Lets concentrate on getting a 3D model of existing up then we can play about as we go.

[Andy51055]

I posted that so that there was an accurate model to extrude the walls from. As far as I can tell, the only wall that I moved was the one marked 'partition wall' on your accurate line drawing, the one extending from the "wet room" to the "display wall". And as there have already been several criticisms to this internal layout I assumed we wouldn't be going with it.

Sam, could you mark on the 'accurate model.pdf' which are exterior walls so we know which ones can have venting through them?

Cheers

[Onlyhalfdone]

Well like I say lets just get a model together then the directors can use that to aid there decisions.

[Samwise Wilson]

The only exterior walls are the front and the ones surrounding the marked outside areas. All the partition walls are mapped (only 3) and the accurate model sketchup file has the ceiling heights in. 

[Onlyhalfdone]

Sam sounds like you've already done what I was offering. Another thing ticked off the list. Where's the model by the way?

[Andy51055]

Hidden away in the fifth post on this thread, it appears.

[tmp...@gmail.com]

Another thing we're going to have to consider is fire escapes/emergency exits...

Anyone know anything at all about the legal requirements?

[Samwise Wilson]

We've now got a nice extruded model of the current space, on its way onto the interwebs soon! Design 'o' space v2 is a go!

[YouMustBe Joking]

Let's see it then ;)

--

[Samwise Wilson]

Andy has it on his laptop or in a dropbox somewhere! 

On Thursday, 2 June 2016 12:42:27 UTC+1, YouMustBe Joking wrote:

Let's see it then ;)

On Wednesday, 1 June 2016, Samwise Wilson <s...@swwils.com> wrote:

We've now got a nice extruded model of the current space, on its way onto the interwebs soon! Design 'o' space v2 is a go!

On Thursday, 5 May 2016 11:23:12 UTC+1, Samwise Wilson wrote:

Attached is a rough PDF of the potential new space layout. 

Design away!

For scale, the large room is approx 22m long. 

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[Tim Pinder]

I was hoping to catch up with Andy last night but unfortunately had to leave the space before he arrived 

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[Onlyhalfdone]

I haven't finished it yet. before I share I need the following measurements.

Doors
- door width and height, edge of frame to edge of frame height.
- position of door from an external wall so I can accurately position it.

- side corridor dims
- any projections in the room such as column boxings.
- position / height / dims of electric box
- measurements within toilet cubicles
- ceiling grid height
- height to underside of roof soffit.
- position of structural steelwork to ceiling

I can come visit the space if need be. Reluctant to share until it's right.

Cheers

[Onlyhalfdone]

In the mean time if people want to take on board drawing hackspace objects such as shelving units in sketch up would be very helpful. Downloading fully shaded items from the online library look pretty but kill my machine so try to avoid or download it, create a copy and remove textures off one copy and we can swap them over for prettier looking objects later.

[Onlyhalfdone]

tim, not sure how to private message you on here, but if u do know send me a message and will sort out a chat

[tmp...@gmail.com]

For everyone's benefit

In the browser (Chrome) on my desktop there is a reply double arrow and dropdown menu at the top right of each message. 

First option is reply privately (see attached) :)

T

[Onlyhalfdone]

I'm on an iPad so u fortunately has none of those options 😀 But now I know they are available I'll use the laptop next time. Thanks for pointing that out I never knew

[Tim Pinder]

The iPad is a wonderful device but of necessity can’t do everything a *proper* computer can.

T

On 2 Jun 2016, at 21:54, Onlyhalfdone <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm on an iPad so u fortunately has none of those options 😀 But now I know they are available I'll use the laptop next time. Thanks for pointing that out I never knew
>

[Onlyhalfdone]

I'lol be up Tuesday night, is there any chance of getting into the new space? Can we get a key?

[Tom Oldbury (Email #2)]

It would be nice to have a look around and see what needs doing to get the place up to standard. Also easier to visualise proposed layout ideas.

[Samwise Wilson]

You can visit anytime, ask enterprise to let you down the corridor. They shut at 5 though.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Doh... Unfortunately getting there pre five is going to be impossible for me. I was hoping a couple of us could head down, while someone takes the dims I'd imput them straight in.

[Andy51055]

Took loads of measurements today and should have an extrudable plan done some time this evening. I'll post it up here as soon as it's done along with vertical measurements and position of sockets around the place.

The builders were in and have just finished doing the roof. They now need to wait until it rains to find out if there are any gaps in the roof and to find where the hole in the downpipe in the middle of the room is. Then they will repair them.
They also asked about whether they needed to remove any of the plumbing. I said I wasn't sure so if we want one of the toilet rooms gutting we should let them know asap.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Andy I've done a plan, I just need the measurements otherwise I've wasted an entire evening of my life.

[Andy51055]

The space has changed shape a bit since the previous accurate plan (extra window, alcove or two, corridor changing shape, small kinks in walls, that sort of thing).
Hopefully pdf's are useable, if not I'll output them as a dwg or summat.
walls:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/Accurater%20plan%20%28walls%29.pdf
doors and windows: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/Accurater%20plan%20%28doors%20and%20windows%29.pdf
ceilings: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/Accurater%20plan%20%28ceilings%29.pdf
sockets and skirtings/cladding to follow after I've eaten

[Tim Pinder]

Great job Andy :)

[Andy51055]

Power: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/943592/Accurater%20plan%20%28power%29.pdf

As it was a shop, it's not surprising that all the power is down at one end, but we'll have to add a lot more outlets throughout. Earlier in the thread someone said it was a 100A system, but I seem to remember there being "62A" on the main box. Though that could have been the bus it came in on.

[Onlyhalfdone]

Everything needs ripped out, all the electrics, all the ceilings it just wants starting from scratch in my opinion. I have an electrical design consultant who will draw a distribution board schematic and size cables and breakers etc as a favour to me. I'm about tomorrow night if anyone would like to discuss

[YouMustBe Joking]

What's the cost and lead time for getting 3 phase?

On Monday, 6 June 2016, Onlyhalfdone <onlyha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Everything needs ripped out, all the electrics, all the ceilings it just wants starting from scratch in my opinion. I have an electrical design consultant who will draw a distribution board schematic and size cables and breakers etc as a favour to me. I'm about tomorrow night if anyone would like to discuss

[Onlyhalfdone]

I suspect 3 phase is already available at the meters, if it's just a meter upgrade I'd guess at £1000 but that's a total guess. If it's not 3 phase to the meter point (and the units only using 1 phase. Then it's £1000's to upgrade the supply. We need to get access to the meter switch room, Samwise / Andy do you know where this is. Timescale, upgraded meters don't take that long around 8 weeks, upgraded cable, it takes 8 weeks to get a quote minimum, then better part of 3 months to get the install. A large enough single phase supply would do it just restricts what equipment we can purchase. Ask the landlord what KVA the supply is to the meter supplying the unit, and what it's fused at. The KVA of the supply is what capacity is reserved on the distribution network cabling for that meter. For instance it's possible to have a huge cable incoming but there is no network capacity and NP have fused it at 100amp.

[Matt C]

Inc workshop next door have 3phase don't know if that indicates the cable you mention is already in?

[Samwise Wilson]

Andy MVP. 

Meters are central to all the units, I will ask LL about KVA - other units have fairly beefy 3 phase.

Are you saying that the skylight near front entrance has been opened?

[Andy51055]

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 5:22:59 PM UTC+1, Samwise Wilson wrote:

Andy MVP. 

Are you saying that the skylight near front entrance has been opened?

Yes indeed. And they finished off resealing the roof while I was measuring the place. There are more possible skylights but at the moment these two give a good bit of light.