Hosting Leeds Repair Cafe?

[J C]

What are peoples thoughts on the hackspace hosting leeds repair cafe? They are looking for a new venue. 

I think its once ever two months for a few hours on saturday. 

Joe

[samson B]

if we can time it with our open day i think it could be a very good thing for the space ?

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[Stanto]

This's the best idea.

Coincide it with the open day, ensure a responsible Hackspace member is present, unless those hosting the repair café also become a member (probably superfluous).

My concern is that people coming into the space will associate the space with being a repair cafe, not entirely a bad thing and it'll bring in a new crowd, but they won't be seeing the space as a shared workshop so the introduction is a different approach which is to be wary about, especially with people's projects lying around and a heavier footfall of unknowns coming in (so content security is a concern from a risk assessment point of view).

I'm for it.

On Thursday, 15 June 2017 14:35:44 UTC+1, samson B wrote:

if we can time it with our open day i think it could be a very good thing for the space ?

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 1:28 PM, J C <jap...@gmail.com> wrote:

What are peoples thoughts on the hackspace hosting leeds repair cafe? They are looking for a new venue. 

I think its once ever two months for a few hours on saturday. 

Joe

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[samson B]

People usin things there not meant to would be a concern :/. If its on the open day hopefully security shouldn't be a big problem ( depends how use it is ) as we are n the mind set of new people popping in .  And we could rfid the members storage  suppose another problem we might have is our members being dragged ino running the cafe as we happen to be there ?

[Anzir Boodoo]

Samson,

> On 15 Jun 2017, at 17:20, samson B <samm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> People usin things there not meant to would be a concern :/. If its on the open day hopefully security shouldn't be a big problem ( depends how use it is ) as we are n the mind set of new people popping in . And we could rfid the members storage suppose another problem we might have is our members being dragged ino running the cafe as we happen to be there ?

From my perspective as one of the fixers:

I don’t think Hackspace members will necessarily be dragged into running the café - Ed and Rachael usually sort all of that stuff out rather than fix themselves, so there should be two non-fixers making sure things are OK.

I’d say we get about 20 people along over the course of the afternoon (12-4 usually). Personally, I would be really happy if Hackspace decided to host, and it would be good publicity - also, I first came across the idea of a Repair Café from Reading, where rlab (the local Hackspace) help run it, but it’s not at their space

Positives:

1. Hackspace has lots of tools and Repair Café occasionally comes a cropper for tools or materials which are readily available at the space (eg wire). We rely on what fixers (remember to) bring with them

2. Repair Café is only once every 2 months at present, and the space offers the opportunity for fixes to happen (eg at open days). The first thing I remember doing at the space was fixing my beard trimmer.

3. Repair Café (well, Ed) brings food

4. Someone brought in a telly last time. Tom would have fixed that thing in 10 minutes (probably)...

Negatives:

1. Hackspace has lots of stuff lying around, which could become problematic if the numbers of people coming to the Repair Café rises. At the moment, we’re probably OK in ‘supervising’ people who bring their stuff in

2. The Repair Café is likely to take over the space for the duration, which could possibly limit members working on their own things - for the last few we have usually had 2-3 tables of mechanical/electrical/electronic fixing, 1 of computers and 1-2 of fabric/textiles - the main room, craft area and part of the workshop are likely to be required.

3. People might start coming to the Open Days/Evenings with an expectation that we will fix their things for them, whereas I think we should be clear that (in my opinion) we should be helping people fix things themselves, not doing it for them, eg showing people how to solder etc. and helping them if they get stuck. At Repair Café, the people who come in with stuff need no knowledge and usually will wait around while volunteers fix their stuff.

4. We (both Repair Café and Hackspace) will have to be clear on clearing out time. At the current venue, there is a drumming group in the room after the end of Repair Café which forms a definite end point to the afternoon. It would be nice to have longer hours (dependent on fixers etc.), but equally there should be a finishing time which is strictly adhered to (subject to being able to finish repairs)

In terms of actual space required, the Space is fine (I’m also offering my studio, which would be a squeeze and the parking is expensive, but I could just fit it in there), but the number of things/people happening might interrupt some members working on their own projects

Those are just my thoughts. Personally, I would like to see it happen at the space, as you can offer more to the Café than my studio can (I’m on the 3rd floor and the lift is tiny - the Café had a dishwasher in for repair once, that wouldn’t have fitted in my studio lift...)

—
Anzir Boodoo MRes MILT | Urbanist, Samuel L. Foxton
http://samuellfoxton.wordpress.com
Twitter: @samuellfoxton Facebook, Pinterest & YouTube: Samuel L. Foxton

[samson B]

   I'm at work s cant reed all of his right now but cool that's no tht many people and if they no who i a fixer that sounds good ill read the rest whe i get back home :)

[Tom Oldbury (Email #1)]

Personally I wouldn't have a problem and might be willing to come down sometime.

[George Scott]

Some points of reservation folks:

For clarity - definitions:

"Hackspace"

A place that hackers* use to meet and "hack" / make products.

*creative people with technical and/or artistic skills.

"Repair Cafe"

A place that people* come to get their broken belongings fixed to save them buying replacements and reduce wasting resources.

*non-technically minded people who do not demonstrate any technical curiosity or desire to learn techincal skills, and want to save money.

So it's likely this exercise will not directly attract potential new memebers - just non-hacker types.

I'm of the opinion, if you have the sort of tenacity to learn, understand, and hack; you also have the fortitude to use Google and find LHS - Do we ask people how they heard about us? - understanding that could be valuable.

Quid Pro Quo:

Therefore as LHS is at high risk of giving both tangible and intangible resources, to people who have no intention or desire to give anything back; what are we therefore going to charge? (In £, not food) - we're a welcoming liberal bunch, but our generosity and members must not be exploited unfairly.

Security:

I also echo the aforementioned security concerns, and feel that all "people" must be chaperoned at all times, and memeber storage be locked (in case they forget to turn left for the loo, and our possession fall off the shelves into their bags and pockets).

Sorry to be a grump on this one folks - I like the principle of repair cafe, but the exchange needs to be fair, and from this string thus far, I see no evidence of that.

George

On 16 Jun 2017 12:49, "Tom Oldbury (Email #1)" <tho...@tgohome.com> wrote:

Personally I wouldn't have a problem and might be willing to come down sometime.

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[Aidan Dunbar]

Repair Cafe is a community venture, they aren't charging people. Offer up the community run space for community events. 

Definite positives for the Space, even if it is just awareness that we exist. "Oh, Colin/Gemma/Whoever, I was at this place on Saturday that you might be interested in." There's also a very active arts/creative/community sector in Leeds which the Hackspace is (in my opinion) conspicuously not a part of, this is a low-impact way to introduce ourselves to a wider audience and actually be a "community" group.

If anything, we need more non-hacker types to broaden the membership base, and besides these are people who are interested in fixing things rather than just throwing them away. 

No additional security required specifically for this event, storage isn't locked up for open evenings and open days as is, and chaperoning people is unfriendly. Projects should be tidied away already as per storage policy.

If there are people willing to be around to run it then do it already.

[Daniel F]

Agree with all of Aidan's points. 

This seems like something good to help out with - and the hackspace makes an obvious venue for it resources wise. 

Probably wouldn't suggest it happen on an open day though; if they're expecting 20 people of their own it had the potential to get quite busy. 

Fligg. 

[J C]

Im generally inclined to agree with Aiden on this too.

We are unfortunately low key in the general artist / creative community.  In terms of recruiting- being unable to fix a toaster doesn’t mean you cant build a table or weave on the loom or cut something out on the laser cutter.

In terms of security, one of the reasons the back room was chosen for member storage was for security reasons- it could be locked. RFID system for that won’t happen overnight but there is no reason we can’t put a latch and combination padlock on it in short order to be on the safe side.

We are also not entering into a contract with them, we can try it and if a number of our members turn round and say they don’t want it anymore that’s what happens.

As for how people find out about us its a mix of meetup, couple from the bbc, came across the concept online somewhere, searching for a specific tool, have been to other hacksapces before  and some word of mouth.

 

Joe

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Daniel F <buildth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agree with all of Aidan's points. 

This seems like something good to help out with - and the hackspace makes an obvious venue for it resources wise. 

Probably wouldn't suggest it happen on an open day though; if they're expecting 20 people of their own it had the potential to get quite busy. 

Fligg. 

[George Scott]

Yes - agree the "community" cards wins in this regard.

And yes, if various experts get sick of fixing things, then as long as they don't feel pressured to maintain a level of service / commitment, then yes all good too.

In the spirit of "only something worth taking is worth locking up - so locks produce unwanted attention", maybe  just a sign on memeber storage saying "LHS MEMBERS ONLY" - or something - beneficial for open evening / days too - but agree rfid on that door would be cool - QUESTION: is there a cctv camera in there? - maybe one for a wish list?

Sorry I was feeling a bit pissed off with the world earlier - Aiden's note helped snap me out of it - cheers pal.

G

[Stanto]

I'd like to also remind people of a few points, addressing some things raised from people's replies which isn't directed at anyone in particular:

- We don't pro-actively market or advertise the Hackspace in any traditional or modern sense.

Whether e-mail, marketing, search engine optimisation, paid advertising, putting an advert in the local paper, ensuring association with the things we do. We ride mainly on word of mouth, people knowing what 'hackspace' is and social media. This has pro's and cons.

- Not everyone who walks in through the door has to be knowledgeable or a genius

I didn't know what an Arduino was when I started the hackspace, and what I wanted from it is knowledge. We've had people become members in the past because all they wanted to do was repair things. This isn't wrong, this isn't bad. There are people who run businesses partly out of the hackspace and use the place because of the tools. Let's invite more people in, share knowledge, build the community.

- Open days

Saturdays are almost always quiet except for current paying members. This isn't the intention or point of open days, it's meant to pull new people in. From an advertising point of view saying "Leeds Hackspace Open Day and Repair Cafe" adds more of a pull, in marketing terms a 'call to action', it gives people a reason to come to the open day if they didn't have one already and if I've seen anything, the words "hey it's an open day" doesn't have a lot of pull. Nor does "come along with your project" since the answer is often "I don't have one and I don't know how to start one". A lot of my learning started with repairing or fixing something (that I had broken).

- Trust

People can be more open to joining and being a part of things if you at least trust them a bit. Taking appropriate measures to protect stuff makes sense, and being actively wary, we should at least give people the benefit of the doubt to some extent otherwise it becomes intimidating, and we've already seen that with the way we give out keyholder access which is always a point of contention.

- Reputation

I won't go into too much detail on this, we have been segregated from the creative/art scene in Leeds, I don't know what it's like now, though there definitely was a history of a bad reputation there and the Hackspace was purposefully avoided with negative word of mouth going on that was targeting specifically at people attending our open evenings. We should do things to build up and fix our reputation or at least create one. I see this as a good step that way.

I will close on the point that we used to have Leeds Raspberry Jams running at Leeds Hackspace and ultimately they fizzled out, so if the repair cafe is to be hosted at leeds hackspace, it needs dedicated ownership that puts the effort in, which it appears to have. :)

[Tim Pinder]

I’m heartily in favour of this.

Agree with Fligg about it not being on an open day.

Tim

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[samson B]

I'm a little behind of the thread so sorry if its already been said but I'm in agreement with Stanto about it being a good thing having it on an open day at the moment we are only getting a hand ful of peopl looking round and its better to have one day a month here paid members no its going to be busy and not to come down if they want quiete then having two days in the mounth if 'tis makes sense ? And it also helps us out as we can give people who want one. Look round say what we are about and it doesn't mean members who are able to keep the space open hav to do so on two days in a mounth ( posebilty not a sertenty ) 

[Stephen Rowley]

I think I've really got much to add that Adain, stanto and others havent already stated even if ultimately it doesn't bring new members or it fizzles out nothing ventured nothing gained and all that.

[Andy51055]

Having described Hackspace to people for the last year as a community workshop, I'm definitely in favour of this.

Tim

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[onlyha...@gmail.com]

My thoughts are

Looking back over the comments I'd just like to clarify my thoughts. I'm Paying my fee to provide access to a workshop with fellow like minded people who share that commitment Via a fee to continue its success and improvement. As far as I'm aware we are not a charity or what our constitution says our direction is within the community. I personally don't see the point of using our facilities for people who arn't contributing a fee.

I do think the potential to gain new members is very high from this event.

I am happy for the hackspace to be used for events like this, but our purpose is to raise money for new tools, run the space so we need to work out a rate and charge that. At the very least it should be cost neutral, the cost should include for a paid fee to a hackspace member to open and close up. If a member chooses to waive this section of the cost so be it.

It's a worthy event no doubt. But the hackspace is not a charity. There are many many worthy causes in the world but you can't support them all.

[Stephen Rowley]

The benefits for the space doesn't have to be finical for the space to benefit.

Many businesses will help out charities at their own cost because it does benefit those companies in other ways.

[onlyha...@gmail.com]

True stephen, but i don't see that's the purpose of the hackspace. It's a members space, emphasis on members.

[timpin .]

Andy

How would the repair cafe prevent you from using the hackspace as you describe?

IMHO the purpose of the space includes being a community facility - the minimal cost of opening the space to this external group should not be a barrier to that.

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[Stephen Rowley]

I agree with on that point Andy. And I would like to make sure that it doesn't get in the way of members. But I do think it will have advantages for the space and members that ate not just finical

[onlyha...@gmail.com]

I don't think we are a community space... it's a members space, I.e. You pay for access. One of the incentives of the larger space was to create an area we could charge for its use. So let's charge, it doesn't have to be much but it certainly should be cost neutral. I only come down on a Tuesday should I stop paying my fee and just rock up for free each week?

When we are swimming in money... that's a different matter.

[Stanto]

I'm not convinced of the gains of substantially charging a group that encourages potentially more members to come along and doesn't charge themselves.

[onlyha...@gmail.com]

why do you think we will gain new members? The people attending it are doing so to repair stuff for free. By this logic they don't have the disposable income to pay a membership fee. Unless i've misunderstood the purpose of the repair cafe.

[Stanto]

It has the potential to, same reason why we go to makerfaire, or go to the bradford media museum, we show we exist, we show all the shiny things and we show what you get access to when you're a member.

Or you socially network with people, and they say "oh yeah I know this person they'd love to be a member here" and this is a thing that can happen. It's a potential, not a certainty, just as much that it's possible for people to purely come along and have things repaired for free and that's all they're there for, and that's okay. As I said we've had that happen on tuesday open evenings.

As for the income for a membership fee, there have been discussions, repeatedly, that we move to a 'pay as you feel' model for the Hackspace, as other Hackspaces as done, and at present we support an 'approach the directors to discuss this if you have a situation that warrants it' situation. 

I think that you haven't misunderstood the purpose of the repair café, and I think we have different views on how the relationship with the Hackspace can work to the benefit of the Hackspace.

[onlyha...@gmail.com]

i'll go with the flow on this, i've expressed my views.

Pay as much as you feel.... doubt that happening any time soon while the directors are liable for any short fall in rent for the next 3 years. But hey I'm happy to only pay £5 a month.

[Phil Hutchinson]

I think its spot on with the spaces original objectives. 

I love the Idea of spreading knowledge of electronics and the space in the same way as we do with opendays. 

Its not a super regular thing so yes this is a great thing for the space. 

I think charging would be a bad idea, be the better people its not that regular, we get coverage and known, we do some good. 

As long as senior members are here on the Saturday open day it runs on, I fully back it. 

They have to let people know that we are kindly hosting it and not running it. 

Phil 

[J C]

So the overall thinking is that we should try this, taking into account points made throughout the conversation. I will go to the meeting on Saturday, would anyone like to join me? 

Joe

--

[Christopher Stanton]

Sorry, will be at steelcon, I guess this also means leeds hackspace won't be at steelcon?

[J C]

No I chased them but got no response. 

[Anzir Boodoo]

Joe,

> On 5 Jul 2017, at 10:13, J C <jap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So the overall thinking is that we should try this, taking into account points made throughout the conversation. I will go to the meeting on Saturday, would anyone like to join me?

I keep missing Repair Café organising meetings! This time round I’ll be at Bradford Literature Festival, where there’s a session on the Ethics of AI at the same time...

—
Anzir Boodoo MRes MILT | Urbanist, Samuel L. Foxton
http://samuellfoxton.wordpress.com
Twitter: @samuellfoxton Facebook, Pinterest & YouTube: Samuel L. Foxton

[Philco]

It's deffo worth giving it a trial. But I agree with Phil - we should be super clear that we are hosting, not running the event.

[J C]

Yep they seem to have the running things aspect in hand. 

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Philco <phee...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's deffo worth giving it a trial. But I agree with Phil - we should be super clear that we are hosting, not running the event.

[Philco]

I'll come with you on Saturday, Joe.

If anybody has any concerns or worries you'd like me to address at the meeting, just let me know and I'll feed back to the group afterwards.

[J C]

Thanks Philco- Much appreciated.

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Philco <phee...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll come with you on Saturday, Joe.

If anybody has any concerns or worries you'd like me to address at the meeting, just let me know and I'll feed back to the group afterwards.

[Philco]

Hi all -

Just a quick update following today's meeting with the Repair Cafe people. Joe and I spent 90 minutes with them discussing the cafe and their plans.

Apparently they will no longer have use of their current venue after August so they are working against the clock in trying to secure a new space from which to operate.

They were appreciative of our offer and are also considering another venue. They will host a Repair Cafe event in each spot and take feedback (etc.) before they decide on which they prefer. They will be at the Hack Space on Saturday, August 5th from 12 - 4 pm.

This should also allow us the opportunity to evaluate the effect of their presence at the space

Happy Saturday, everyone -

Philco

On Wednesday, 5 July 2017 13:41:58 UTC+1, Japoteg wrote:

Thanks Philco- Much appreciated.

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Philco <phee...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll come with you on Saturday, Joe.

If anybody has any concerns or worries you'd like me to address at the meeting, just let me know and I'll feed back to the group afterwards.

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[Andy51055]

Good work chaps.

[J C]

One correction to Philcos update. The trial session at the hackspace will not be in August but either October or December. They will confirm with us in the next couple of weeks.

Joe

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[Philco]

Oh, sorry - I'd thought it was August.

Did they call or somefink?