Re: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
jon last
My research has shown me that wind power is the best way to get energy as Ontario is in a very good wind area. I've also been looking into the small and mid range wind turbines for price, efficency and footprint (size, noise, vibration). Of the wind turbines the verticle axis are better than the horizontal axis type for our climate.
Solar-thermal on the other hand works well for heating water, and for warm air for a winter ventilation system.
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, maikeru333 <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
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maikeru333
Keith Shackleton
about energy needs and possible solutions, what could be produced (both by
agriculture/horticulture/permaculture and by "cottage industry", housing
solutions etc.
I think soon interested folks should set up some task/study groups for the
various planning areas.
Keith
FreeEnergyGuy
With energy, be prepared to change unexpectedly. In the energy
environment/"community" I'm in, changing lay-level research and development
is happening so fast, that many in our environment, even physicists and
engineers, can't keep up with all the ideas coming to fruition in people's
basements and garages. The site I constantly access, Sterling Allan's Free
Energy News, http://peswiki.com/energy/News, is a great launch pad for all
types of alternative energy developments.
For wind energy, just mouse to the left-hand side-bar and click on "wind".
It'll open a PESWIKI site for a myriad of wind-mill developments, from the
latest corporate/commercial humongeous GE machine, to all sorts of
"down-home" type do-it-yourself mills. In fact, the latter types may be just
the solution for us. But, since nothing is perfect, as I said before, it may
be best to implement changes from time to time, especially if more "juice"
is required. Adding power by adding more cheap mills may be the best bet in
the short to medium run. And let's not forget that wind-turbines may present
possible health problems - sounds, vibrations - which we have to consider.
For solar energy, there is the matter of cost per watt, and the advantages
or disadvantages of each of solar thermal and photovoltaic technology.
We have to keep warm during cold times, and I discussed building heating by
geo-thermal means and great insulation with a couple of participants at the
Feb. 12th meeting. Another individual is "gung-ho" on the use of wood as
essential renewable energy, and where geo-thermal is not effective enough,
the astute use of wood as fuel, ie., a form of bio-mass, along with
solar-thermal, is a great partial solution. But it's not "heaven".
As for prime movers, motor vehicles, farm machinery, and stationary power -
ie., gasoline/diesel engines -, we'll have to discuss the whole matter of
bio-based fuels, and whether we can grow enough fuel-crops on spare land to
provide for our needs. Certainly, hybrid-type power sources should be
considered. Rudolph Diesel, the diesel engine's inventor, intended that his
engine would be fueled by bio-fuels, mostly for agricultural and motor-truck
purposes. John D. Rockefeller had him change his mind ... of course.
By the way, for everyone, Sterling Allan and his family are heavily involved
in an intentional type eco-village similar to the type we're contemplating.
If you or any other reader has any questions or points to discuss on what
I've mentioned above, please feel free to contact me,
Hal Ade, at FreeE...@vif.com, or use the
Google-Groups method.
Your friend for a better world, and in New Energy,
Hal Ade
Gatineau.
----- Original Message -----
From: "maikeru333" <michael...@gmail.com>
To: "LanarkEcoVillage" <lanarkec...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 9:59 AM
Subject: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
FreeEnergyGuy
fair amount on wind, in addition to other energy matters we'd have to
consider. If we can possibly get together with others like Richard McIntyre,
on housing, geo-based heating, and other alternative energy issues before
the next meeting March 19th, that would be good.
Yours for a better world, and in New Energy,
Hal Ade.
Michael
lanarkecovilla...@googlegroups.com.
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jon last
| My home building plans start with getting an electric energy supply up as fast as possible since power is needed to build strutures, unless we use slave labour, but it is important to remember that there is no silver bullet fix for energy and while photovolt pannels and wind turbines are the best known, there are other ways to harvest energy. Just a few would be composting manuer (animal waste) in a container to capture the methane, solar-thermal steam for a sterling steam engine, and probably many others that people are using elsewhere. --- On Mon, 2/21/11, FreeEnergyGuy <FreeE...@vif.com> wrote: |
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FreeEnergyGuy
12th.
Yours for a better world, and New Energy,
Hal Ade.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Shackleton" <k.shac...@ncf.ca>
To: <lanarkec...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
> Great to have this kind of discussion starting. I have been thinking as
> well
> about energy needs and possible solutions, what could be produced (both by
> agriculture/horticulture/permaculture and by "cottage industry", housing
> solutions etc.
>
> I think soon interested folks should set up some task/study groups for the
> various planning areas.
>
> Keith
>
> On Monday 21 February 2011 09:59:52 maikeru333 wrote:
>> So I know it may be a bit premature, but just thinking about different
>> energy needs, was thinking about wind for power, <snip>
gerard dahan
| Hi Hal & every one I checked out the site peswiki.com/energy/News and came across a book called Tuning the diamonds by Susan Joy Rennison and purchased her book and while trying to find out how to do so I discovered a lecture she was giving called weather storm, Afterward I'm considering an underground dwelling and lots of stored food. What are your thoughts on the lecture? Gerard |
--- On Tue, 2/22/11, FreeEnergyGuy <FreeE...@vif.com> wrote: |
RON RANCOURT
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jon last
JON last here, no H in my name.
The straw bale houses I researched had no heat retention ability, once you stop heating the interior the building cools down just like a stick frame house. The advantage of earth berm houses is the constant earth temperature below the frost line. As for storm protection, earth berm houses are very good shelter from atmospheric turbulance and with a proper roof they could offer protection from astral fallout, visitors, and some high energy particles.  --- On Wed, 2/23/11, RON RANCOURT <ronra...@gmail.com> wrote: |
FreeEnergyGuy
The following note is what I sent Keith to his private email address (didn't
have the Google Groups address handy at the time) in response to his
request for info on Sterling Allan's "Sustainable Home" project in Utah:
"Hi again, Keith:
Here's the main URL on Allan's sustainable home:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Sterling_Allan%27s_Sustainable_Home
He's building it for himself and his family in conjunction with a community
of like-minded folks in Utah. As you can see, there are plenty of links, and
lots of ideas which he and his friends are actually implementing. Just keep
clicking on the links, and I think we can come up with all kinds of ideas we
can use, taking into account the different climates and geographies of
Lanark county and his area of Utah.
Regards,
Hal."
Sterling has made up a virtual "global catalogue" on all kinds of energy
and applied science items. For various wind-mill designs, gigantic and tiny,
just click/double-click on "wind" in the left-hand side-bar. How do you feel
about vertical-axis machines, BTW?
Sincerely,
Hal.
Michael
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Guy Souliere
Seeing considerable interest in energy matters, I encourage those for whom this is a key interest to get to know each other and your various ideas. It is an important sub-group of the program.
Yours, Mike N.
Mike Nickerson
Seeing considerable interest in energy matters, I encourage those for
whom this is a key interest to get to know each other and your various
ideas. It is an important sub-group of the program.
Yours, Mike N.
On 21-Feb-11, at 3:23 PM, FreeEnergyGuy wrote:
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>
Keith Shackleton
There is not a lake on the present land. The part which comes close or may
touch the Mississippi River has a lot of wetlands so not suitable for
cottages. If in future the ecovillage is able to get the land to the east
(130 acres), it does have nice frontage on the Clyde River, which is smaller.
However, I think it would be inconsistent with the vision that I have (and
which Mike and I have discussed in the past) if we had waterfront, to build
individual cottages along the waterfront. The concept of the ecovillage is to
minimize our impact on the environment. Generally cottage development is
destructive to the riparian (water's edge) ecosystems. Also generally we
would want to cluster the dwellings as compactly as possible while still
allowing for personal privacy (degree of private space to be discussed). Then
the majority of the land would be left as natural as possible for everyone's
enjoyment, including the non-human inhabitants.
We would also want to have a discussion about the concept of people owning a
dwelling and renting it out.
I hope this doesn't sound like a negative response, Guy. Actually I think
you have provided a valuable contribution to kicking off some discussion about
this.
All the best, Keith
Guy Souliere
Ken Bilsky
| Is there a discussion zone on a blog or wiki for the ecovillage concepts and brainstorming? Thanks, Ken Bilsky Billings --- On Thu, 2/24/11, Keith Shackleton <k.shac...@ncf.ca> wrote: |
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RON RANCOURT
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jon last
| I found discussion in email groups like this are the best and a forum site works only if there is a moderator to keep posts on topic and intelligable. |
--- On Fri, 2/25/11, RON RANCOURT <ronra...@gmail.com> wrote: |
Jeremy Sager
I haven't weighed in on this topic yet but I'm keen to be involved.
I've been studying energy issues and working in housing energy science
for a few years now. I've hand built solar thermal panels and have
read extensively on off-grid homes and renewable energy systems.
I've noticed thus far substantial discussion about renewable energy
sources and some discussion related to straw bale houses and vertical
axis wind turbines.
Here are a few reports from colleagues of mine at work for your
reading pleasure on these topics:
1. The Hirondale Straw Bale House in Ottawa:
www.lene.com/HirondelleHouseFinal.pdf
2. Buyers Guide on Wind
Turbines:http://canmetenergy-canmetenergie.nrcan-rncan.gc.ca/fichier.php/codectec/En/ISBN%200-662-37706-0/WindEnergy_buyersguide_ENG.pdf
3. I'd also recommend the book available at most "green shops" such
as the arbor in the Glebe, "The Renewable Energy Handbook" by William
Kemp (2005), which covers all aspects of off-grid housing, but focuses
specifically on renewable energy sources including space heating and
cooling (solar thermal), solar PV, wind, micro hydro, batteries, DC
voltage regulation, inverters, and backup systems.
Look forward to further discussions,
Jeremy
Sent from my iPhone
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Michael Goguen
2. I think many people, well I speak for me on this, would like to avoid the capitalist 'trap' of focusing on economy such that ecology suffers.
3. How do we maintain a self-sufficient internal economy, without having the bigger capitalist world outside come knocking, and potentially, have some things, food stuffs, building ideas, crafts, knowledge, workshops, respite and relaxation, to offer in some measure to the outside world, where we are able - is there a way we can 'export' something positive as a boon to society, without any need for significant exchange in return... being mostly self-sufficient, etc? What additional value, of a non-primarily-material nature can we produce with out meaningful existences?
Michael Goguen
Michael Goguen
1. figuring a way to make money, may be pretty important, at least at the outset, and perhaps up to a certain baseline amount.
2. I think many people, well I speak for me on this, would like to avoid the capitalist 'trap' of focusing on economy such that ecology suffers.
3. How do we maintain a self-sufficient internal economy, without having the bigger capitalist world outside come knocking, and potentially, have some things, food stuffs, building ideas, crafts, knowledge, workshops, respite and relaxation, to offer in some measure to the outside world, where we are able - is there a way we can 'export' something positive as a boon to society, without any need for significant exchange in return... being mostly self-sufficient, etc? What additional value, of a non-primarily-material nature can we produce with *OUR meaningful existences?
Aileen McKenna
gerard dahan
| I'm a carpenter/electrician/plumber and first discovered straw house concept in the late 80s when an individual was commission by CMHC to build a prototype. I encountered the individual at a party and was stuck to him like glue for the rest of the evening and later spent the night at his place talking about straw house and drinking coffee. I have since did intense research on the subject but have not built one yet mostly due to unresolved issues such as the best way to built the foundation. Since the beginning I believe post and beam to be the best approach. but rather then fill in I prefer the exterior walls to be solely straw, the post and beam would be inside at a distance from the exterior walls and made of logs so that the whole post & beam structure be apparent from inside. The straw bails would be pinned together and covered with clay and sand, no Portland cement which is non ecologic and inappropriate for straw. Most windows facing south and biomass to absorb and store sunlight's heat. roof overhang at a distance/angle in such a way to reduce sunlight entering the house progressively as the exterior temperature increase. I can't think of any reasons why straw is not used in the attic that can't be overcome. For self sustain dwellings a stream with some head for producing electricity and a fresh drinking water source connected to a ram pump would be a big bonus. Also lumber such as jack-pine, clay and sand for building be ideal. I know of such location and need enthusiastic associates. I also have a 54 foot diameter geodesic fiberglass dome, needs to be assembled. Gerard --- On Fri, 2/25/11, Jeremy Sager <jsag...@gmail.com> wrote: |
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LJ Bouchard
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jon last
| I've seen a story about a farmer who extracts methane from his livestocks waste and uses it to power his tractor, heat his barns, run farm machines and he is restoring a propane powered truck to run on methane for his deliveries. --- On Sun, 2/27/11, LJ Bouchard <ljbou...@rogers.com> wrote: |
Frances Deverell
FreeEnergyGuy
John, given that straw bale houses do not retain heat, how would you deem
straw, compacted or otherwise, as thermal insulation, and could it fit in as
an outermost layer of an earth berm, mitigating heat lost from the berm to
the outside?
Thanks,
Hal.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jon last" <jonl...@rogers.com>
To: <lanarkec...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
JON last here, no H in my name.
The straw bale houses I researched had no heat retention ability, once you
stop heating the interior the building cools down just like a stick frame
house. The advantage of earth berm houses is the constant earth temperature
below the frost line. As for storm protection, earth berm houses are very
good shelter from atmospheric turbulance and with a proper roof they could
offer protection from astral fallout, visitors, and some high energy
particles.
--- On Wed, 2/23/11, RON RANCOURT <ronra...@gmail.com> wrote:
Cheers,
Ron
Gerard
From: FreeEnergyGuy <FreeE...@vif.com>
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jon last
Again, no H in my name.
Straw can serve well as a building material but it needs to be recognized as only an organic and bulkier substitute for sythetic modern materials. If built correctly Straw walls can provide a good level of insulation to a building if backed by an air-gap and secondary wall but they don't hold completely as a thermal mass stable temperature system.
Straw could not be used as a berm insulation as that layer of insulation must and can serve a dual function of insulation and moisture repulsion. The big thing to remember in construction is that there is a right way to build a structure, and then everything else, and that the better you build to start the less rebuilding is needed and the more efficient the structure can be at reducing energy and resource use. |
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FreeEnergyGuy
Regrets,
Thanks,
Hal.
Cheers,
Ron
Gerard
From: FreeEnergyGuy <FreeE...@vif.com>
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Carol Knapp
I'm going to apologize now if this has already been posted, I've
always thought it was a pretty neat idea ...CA
On Feb 27, 3:03 am, jon last <jonlas...@rogers.com> wrote:
> I've seen a story about a farmer who extracts methane from his livestocks waste and uses it to power his tractor, heat his barns, run farm machines and he is restoring a propane powered truck to run on methane for his deliveries.
>
> From: LJ Bouchard <ljbouch...@rogers.com>
> Subject: Re: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
> To: lanarkec...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sunday, February 27, 2011, 5:03 AM
>
> Holly Smokes!
> So many great ideas.
> I ran across someone who was working on a portable low-voltage low-power-requirement hydrogen generator.
> He was hopping to power a car with it.
> Anyone know of similar projects?
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gerard dahan
> To: lanarkec...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
>
> Hi Hal & every one
> I checked out the site peswiki.com/energy/News and came across a book called Tuning the diamonds by Susan Joy Rennison and purchased her book and while trying to find out how to do so I discovered a lecture she was giving called weather storm,
> Afterward I'm considering an underground dwelling and lots of stored food.
> What are your thoughts on the lecture?
>
> Gerard
>
> From: FreeEnergyGuy <FreeEne...@vif.com>
> Subject: Re: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
> To: lanarkec...@googlegroups.com
> Received: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 11:13 AM
>
> Thanks for your message, Keith, and thanks also for being a great host Feb. 12th.
>
> Yours for a better world, and New Energy,
>
> Hal Ade.
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [LanarkEcoVillage] energy for ecovillages
>
> > Great to have this kind of discussion starting. I have been thinking as well
> > about energy needs and possible solutions, what could be produced (both by
> > agriculture/horticulture/permaculture and by "cottage industry", housing
> > solutions etc.
>
> > I think soon interested folks should set up some task/study groups for the
> > various planning areas.
>
> > Keith
>
> > On Monday 21 February 2011 09:59:52 maikeru333 wrote:
> >> So I know it may be a bit premature, but just thinking about different
> >> energy needs, was thinking about wind for power, <snip>
>
> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "LanarkEcoVillage" group.
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>
jon last
| thank you. I know about the guy in Newfoundland who made a buisiness of building these things but couldn't get the link correct to find the info again. Now I can add this link to my growing list of sources of info on getting away from Ontario Power Co. and their billing. --- On Mon, 3/21/11, Carol Knapp <islandc...@msn.com> wrote: |
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peter...@ca.inter.net
discussion about a Swiss community which had been (off grid) 7 self
sustaining using Keely technologies.
Has anyone been to that community. maybe they would do a tech transfer
with Canadians.
Quoting jon last <jonl...@rogers.com>:
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