Following much discussion with SIGs and the community over the past nearly two years, WG LTS is proposing that the previously merged as "provisional" KEP:
is indeed implementable ahead of the 1.19 enhancements freeze:
https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/pull/1782
As proposed, this is a tracked enhancement for the 1.19 milestone in keeping with an earlier intent to cover 1.19 and newer.
But...:
Additional more recent discussion on the k-dev list:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/kubernetes-dev/IVpiIOZ4WcM/I_LGDpNkAgAJ
and subsequent discussion this week at the WG LTS meeting:
* video: https://youtu.be/lkDYaqPLRDM
* minutes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J2CJ-q9WlvCnIVkoEo9tAo19h08kOgUJAS3HxaSMsLA/edit#
aaand subsequent discussion this week on Slack:
https://kubernetes.slack.com/archives/CDTMPM75W/p1589381587015300
leads us to a place where WG LTS and SIG Release are also in support of retroactively extending planned support for 1.18, 1.17, and 1.16. General consensus has been this is viable to attempt as a community, 1.16 marks a first point after some notable deprecation changes in favor of stable APIs, and in the context of operational complexities our project's downstream consumers are facing due to COVID-19 there is increased desire for less "must upgrade" pressure multiple times each year due to a release being end-of-support.
The 1.16 release would normally have reached end of patch support in June, so it may seem there isn't not an immediate pressure for a choice. Still I would like to propose a lazy consensus period ending a noon US Pacific time on Friday May 22, 2020 to ensure a decision does not move forward without any possibly remaining major concerns having one more opportunity to be raised, and then also leaves time to communicate more broadly the decision for any operators looking at the need to move past 1.16 in the coming weeks.
(Note: Discussion regarding the number of releases per year can similarly continue on its own pace to eventual resolution.)
--
Tim Pepper
Orchestration Lead
VMware Open Source Technology Center
On May 15, 2020, at 11:46 AM, Tim Pepper <tpe...@vmware.com> wrote:
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It’s been brought to my attention that there’s still a point of insufficient clarity here:
There are two topics for discussion so folks can express support or concern separately and still hopefully make progress on either or both without one possibly turning into a blocker for the other:
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Tim Pepper
Orchestration Lead
VMware Open Source Technology Center
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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kubernetes-dev/7A15D6BD-B4D6-45F5-BFF5-A9ABB6EDE084%40vmware.com.
I’m confused by the term “annual support” – some might interpret that as the ability to upgrade annually and not step through intervening releases. We’re talking about a 12-month (or 4-release? Does it depend on what we do with frequency?) support policy, right?
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Roger Klorese
Senior Product Manager, SUSE CaaS Platform
SUSE
+1 206 217 7432 office
+1 425 444 5493 mobile
255 King Street Suite 800
From: <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Stephen Augustus <steph...@agst.us>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 4:00 PM
To: Tim Pepper <tpe...@vmware.com>, Kubernetes Release Team <kubernetes-...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com>, kubernetes-sig-release <kubernetes-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Annual patch support lifecycle
I'm in favor of both officially starting annual support in 1.19 AND retroactively enabling it for Kubernetes 1.16 through 1.18.
Given we've set a lazy consensus timeout for Friday, which is after Enhancements Freeze, I'm also submitting this to the Release Team as an exception for the 1.19 cycle.
· Enhancement name: Kubernetes Annual Support
· Enhancement status (alpha/beta/stable): Stable -- policy-based KEP
· SIG: Release
· k/enhancements repo issue #: https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/issues/1498
· PR #’s: https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/pull/1782
· Additional time needed (in days): 3 days post-Enhancements Freeze (targeting implementable for Friday, May 22)
-- Stephen
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 12:30 PM Tim Pepper <tpe...@vmware.com> wrote:
It’s been brought to my attention that there’s still a point of insufficient clarity here:
There are two topics for discussion so folks can express support or concern separately and still hopefully make progress on either or both without one possibly turning into a blocker for the other:
· 1.19 and newer receiving annual patch support
o Provisional KEP -> implementable (link [1])
o In discussion for 1.19 release milestone since January 2020
o lazy consensus period ending a noon US Pacific time on Friday May 22, 2020
· 1.18, 1.17, 1.16 receiving annual patch support
o k-dev discussion (link [2])
o In discussions from April/May 2020 given new COVID-19 context
o lazy consensus period ending a noon US Pacific time on Friday May 22, 2020
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kubernetes-dev/CAOqU-DQhc0JTDFNn10WFatAYr-0dx9_yzhv67RV-5gb1mxs-ag%40mail.gmail.com.
I’m confused by the term “annual support” – some might interpret that as the ability to upgrade annually and not step through intervening releases. We’re talking about a 12-month (or 4-release? Does it depend on what we do with frequency?) support policy, right?
--
Roger Klorese
Senior Product Manager, SUSE CaaS Platform
SUSE
+1 206 217 7432 office
+1 425 444 5493 mobile
255 King Street Suite 800
Seattle WA 98104 US
GPG Key: 46D6 297E D349 0A68 9BB7 7362 9454 9852 704C 64CA
LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube
From:
<kuberne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Stephen Augustus <steph...@agst.us>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 4:00 PM
To: Tim Pepper <tpe...@vmware.com>, Kubernetes Release Team <kubernetes-...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com>, kubernetes-sig-release <kubernetes-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Annual patch support lifecycle
I'm in favor of both officially starting annual support in 1.19 AND retroactively enabling it for Kubernetes 1.16 through 1.18.
Given we've set a lazy consensus timeout for Friday, which is after Enhancements Freeze, I'm also submitting this to the Release Team as an exception for the 1.19 cycle.
· Enhancement name: Kubernetes Annual Support
· Enhancement status (alpha/beta/stable): Stable -- policy-based KEP
· SIG: Release
· k/enhancements repo issue #: https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/issues/1498
· PR #’s: https://github.com/kubernetes/enhancements/pull/1782
· Additional time needed (in days): 3 days post-Enhancements Freeze (targeting implementable for Friday, May 22)
-- Stephen
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 12:30 PM Tim Pepper <tpe...@vmware.com> wrote:
It’s been brought to my attention that there’s still a point of insufficient clarity here:
There are two topics for discussion so folks can express support or concern separately and still hopefully make progress on either or both without one possibly turning into a blocker for the other:
· 1.19 and newer receiving annual patch support
o Provisional KEP -> implementable (link [1])
o In discussion for 1.19 release milestone since January 2020
o lazy consensus period ending a noon US Pacific time on Friday May 22, 2020
· 1.18, 1.17, 1.16 receiving annual patch support
o k-dev discussion (link [2])
o In discussions from April/May 2020 given new COVID-19 context
o lazy consensus period ending a noon US Pacific time on Friday May 22, 2020
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kubernetes-dev/CAOqU-DQhc0JTDFNn10WFatAYr-0dx9_yzhv67RV-5gb1mxs-ag%40mail.gmail.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/kubernetes-dev/7A15D6BD-B4D6-45F5-BFF5-A9ABB6EDE084%40vmware.com.
I am still confused about how to give support on just one of these.Moving the KEP to implementable with the goal of 1.19 forward having 12 full months of support, I'm in favour of.The discussion around dependency policy (golang, bazel, etc) still needs to happen, and the KEP confirms that it's still an item we need to figure out. We still have time to solve it before we need to address it in 1.19. We don't have the same luxury with already released versions. I can't really support this change for 1.16-1.18 without us having a plan in place.
When we say we provide patch support for a release, what do we mean?
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2. I agree that we need to start tracking any fixes that are related somehow to Go. That includes all things: security, performance and bugs (things like #75887 come to my mind, but I'm sure Jordan can point more).We don't have a good process for it now, and imho we need this process before we extend the support timeline.
Though obviously it's not super strong argument, because we have this problem already.
5. What about etcd? I didn't find an official support policy for it and that is our super critical dependency. Should we work with them to get official support policy with them?
It seems the discussions is mostly around golang now, so let me first share my thoughts about it first:1. I agree that we should have a consistent policy. Saying that "we upgrade it there will be a need" will put us in troubles sooner or later.But I think such policy is possible. Ideally we should do this upgrade when master was upgraded to the newer version at least 1-2 months ago, but it seems thatbumping golang version 1.X k8s roughly when 1.X+2 is being released should do the job (if golang releases will remain roughly as predictable as they are now).
2. I agree that we need to start tracking any fixes that are related somehow to Go. That includes all things: security, performance and bugs (things like #75887 come to my mind, but I'm sure Jordan can point more).We don't have a good process for it now, and imho we need this process before we extend the support timeline.BTW - I think this is the reason I thing that extending the support period backward in time (i.e. for past releases) may not be the best idea. Though obviously it's not super strong argument, because we have this problem already.