Status OSM and Proposal
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Marijke Stuivenberg
Jul 25, 2016, 12:35:44 PM7/25/16
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Dear all,
This message is to first inform you all about the state of OSM (including the budget) and second to bring a proposal to improve the current leadership situation on the table to discuss.
The state of OSM and related to that the budget 2016
As you all know the Treasurer of OSM stepped down in the middle of completing the budget for 2016. This left us all not only with an incomplete budget process and a vacant treasurer role, which has been sorted out in the meanwhile by appointing Mike Demopoulos as Treasurer outside the board of Directors. But more important, it also meant that according to the rules of the state of NY, with only 2 board Directors left, the board does not constitutes the legitimate number of directors. For further details see http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/notforprofit-corporation-law/npc-sect-702.html
This means, the board is not fit to vote on anything or do any business before at least another director is added. Planned is a special meeting of the members on August 4rth to appoint a third director to at least be able to conduct the most necessary and urgent business, of which the budget 2016 will be on top of the list of course. Most likely we will appoint one of the current members of OSM who stepped down as a director last October as this will be easiest to process without all kind of hurdles.
Proposal
This whole situation clearly shows the fragile situation of the board, and how it affects the project. And at the same time we’ve seen the decrease of CLT members that affects the work of teams under their umbrella. I’ve noticed that CLT just recently published a call for nominations of interim CLT members. Unfortunately at the same time while I was writing a proposal that possibly could form a more solid solution instead of a temporary bandage where we all unfortunately are unsure of how long it has to hold.
I like to share my proposal with you all and discuss it for the next week within the leadership.
The proposal can be viewed (and commented on) here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18sT1l7ViVaNMeWJFIsPINjX2YTRJ9ApBwyse_ebxouE/edit?usp=sharing
As you can see it also includes a timeline, I want to appeal to please abide to that. I’m happy to receive feedback on it and hopefully will lead to a more secure situation that can guide us to the final structure.
Thank you for your consideration
This message is to first inform you all about the state of OSM (including the budget) and second to bring a proposal to improve the current leadership situation on the table to discuss.
The state of OSM and related to that the budget 2016
As you all know the Treasurer of OSM stepped down in the middle of completing the budget for 2016. This left us all not only with an incomplete budget process and a vacant treasurer role, which has been sorted out in the meanwhile by appointing Mike Demopoulos as Treasurer outside the board of Directors. But more important, it also meant that according to the rules of the state of NY, with only 2 board Directors left, the board does not constitutes the legitimate number of directors. For further details see http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/notforprofit-corporation-law/npc-sect-702.html
This means, the board is not fit to vote on anything or do any business before at least another director is added. Planned is a special meeting of the members on August 4rth to appoint a third director to at least be able to conduct the most necessary and urgent business, of which the budget 2016 will be on top of the list of course. Most likely we will appoint one of the current members of OSM who stepped down as a director last October as this will be easiest to process without all kind of hurdles.
Proposal
This whole situation clearly shows the fragile situation of the board, and how it affects the project. And at the same time we’ve seen the decrease of CLT members that affects the work of teams under their umbrella. I’ve noticed that CLT just recently published a call for nominations of interim CLT members. Unfortunately at the same time while I was writing a proposal that possibly could form a more solid solution instead of a temporary bandage where we all unfortunately are unsure of how long it has to hold.
I like to share my proposal with you all and discuss it for the next week within the leadership.
The proposal can be viewed (and commented on) here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18sT1l7ViVaNMeWJFIsPINjX2YTRJ9ApBwyse_ebxouE/edit?usp=sharing
As you can see it also includes a timeline, I want to appeal to please abide to that. I’m happy to receive feedback on it and hopefully will lead to a more secure situation that can guide us to the final structure.
Thank you for your consideration
Marijke Stuivenberg
George Wilson
Jul 25, 2016, 2:39:19 PM7/25/16
to Joomla Leadership Team
Hi Marijke,
How depleted is OSM. I know technically you are only 3 but my understanding was the old members were practically remaining in position. So aside from Vic quitting who else is around in osm practically?
How depleted is OSM. I know technically you are only 3 but my understanding was the old members were practically remaining in position. So aside from Vic quitting who else is around in osm practically?
Because if it's jus clt who are low on people I suggest that clt just replenish their ranks with their call for volunteers.
Kind Regards,
George
Marijke Stuivenberg
Jul 25, 2016, 4:21:55 PM7/25/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
Hi George,
The current situation and the trouble we had to overcome it shows clearly how easy it is to get things stuck. Though technically we have 2 directors (Sarah and me) and the directors that stepped down in October are still members of the organization, it means their only permission to vote on anything is on directors at the AMM of OSM. Not on other issues. Furthermore not each director that stepped down is actively involved, though as members of OSM still invited and welcome at our meetings (without voting rights), if you check the meeting minutes of the last months, you'll see that it is only a handful. And to be frankly if you don't have any voting rights and just have to trust on my blue eyes that I will be listening and take opinions in consideration when voting, is not that motivating for them.
Not only for the members w/o voting rights, and yes, I do listen to them and take their opinions in consideration. It also doesn't feel good as one of the few person with voting rights. For example, the whole process of appointing a new treasurer, where we had to amend the bylaws even to make it legal, felt to me like a huge dilemma. I could either vote against, and leave the whole project to a hold, or go with the decision to do so though it didn't feel like the right way to appoint an important role to somebody. (and that had nothing to do with personal feelings about Mike D.) So it isn't all that simple as counting heads.
As I pointed out in the document I wrote, the most simple solution would be option 1, and for OSM to appoint a third director. But it makes me truly concerned about the future ahead. It's totally not unrealistic that in a couple of months time we face the same awkward situation or, god forbid, even worse. That is why I have been thinking about this proposal a lot and put it on the table.
Hope it makes things more clear.
Kind Regards,
Marijke
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Luca Marzo
Jul 25, 2016, 7:34:24 PM7/25/16
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Thanks Marijke for starting this discussion.
We all noticed the decreasing number of Leadership Team members and in particular we can notice a sort of "defection" in CLT/OSM members, in fact, both of these Groups are reduced to two/three persons.
As underlined by Marijke we need to act soon and change this fragile situation.
How we can "react"?
Transition. We have a transition in progress... but no one knows how this process is going, when the transition will take place or when it will be completed. We have a Transition Team, but this team seems to be quite inactive. We had some progresses with the help of some PLT members (Robert, George) recently, but the TT is not working as expected.
Why? We should ask directly them... but, what can we do to help the transition process?
First of all, this process should deeply involve current Leadership Teams, because most of things in this project are known only by few people, and it's quite impossible for people outside this "group" to change what they don't know.
Some months ago the Joint Leadership Team voted the new methodology and structure for this Project and the Community. We cannot reverse this decision, we must make it happen. And current leadership members should help to reach this achievement.
OSM. I can see the member list on Volunteers Portal and I hope that the list is up-to-date. In this case I see that OSM has 10 members (including Victor who stepped down). Within 10 members, new directors could be appointed before the Annual Meeting, to face this "emergency" situation and comply with the Bylaws. Furthermore, it could be useful to have representative from CLT and PLT in the OSM board, because, remember that we all work to a common project and for a common achievement.
What we need is a "shared vision" and leadership moving ahead to complete the transition.
I'm not sure we need another "interim leadership team", in my opinion, we're already into an "interim phase" with the current leaders. And as current leaders we are all involved in the transition. Call it "Interim leadership", call it "Transition Team" or whatever, but we need to help or drive this process.
What we need is a plan, together with responsibilities.
A plan, with milestones and due dates.
We should define the milestones of the transition and make them happen, eg. Creation of Departments, Re-Organization of Teams within Departments, Election of Coordinators, and so on.
And define Due dates for each of these milestones.
And what about Responsibilities? If someone is responsible for something, like a milestone of the migration, he should try as better as possible to reach the target. And if he's not able to do it, he should step down or ask for help. Too many freezes in our processes, too many "lacks of power", too long timeslots. I know that we all are volunteers and all of us have a "real life", a real work and a family to deal with, but, no one obliges us to be in such a role within the Community and if we're not able to fulfill our responsibilities, we need to be honest with the whole community and leave the role to someone who has the energy and the time to make things happen.
But we need also a clear and strong communication line between teams who are working on this process. We have only few reports about the transition, and this is not the right way to work. Processes throughout the Community and the Project must be clear and transparent.
We all noticed the decreasing number of Leadership Team members and in particular we can notice a sort of "defection" in CLT/OSM members, in fact, both of these Groups are reduced to two/three persons.
As underlined by Marijke we need to act soon and change this fragile situation.
How we can "react"?
Transition. We have a transition in progress... but no one knows how this process is going, when the transition will take place or when it will be completed. We have a Transition Team, but this team seems to be quite inactive. We had some progresses with the help of some PLT members (Robert, George) recently, but the TT is not working as expected.
Why? We should ask directly them... but, what can we do to help the transition process?
First of all, this process should deeply involve current Leadership Teams, because most of things in this project are known only by few people, and it's quite impossible for people outside this "group" to change what they don't know.
Some months ago the Joint Leadership Team voted the new methodology and structure for this Project and the Community. We cannot reverse this decision, we must make it happen. And current leadership members should help to reach this achievement.
OSM. I can see the member list on Volunteers Portal and I hope that the list is up-to-date. In this case I see that OSM has 10 members (including Victor who stepped down). Within 10 members, new directors could be appointed before the Annual Meeting, to face this "emergency" situation and comply with the Bylaws. Furthermore, it could be useful to have representative from CLT and PLT in the OSM board, because, remember that we all work to a common project and for a common achievement.
What we need is a "shared vision" and leadership moving ahead to complete the transition.
I'm not sure we need another "interim leadership team", in my opinion, we're already into an "interim phase" with the current leaders. And as current leaders we are all involved in the transition. Call it "Interim leadership", call it "Transition Team" or whatever, but we need to help or drive this process.
What we need is a plan, together with responsibilities.
A plan, with milestones and due dates.
We should define the milestones of the transition and make them happen, eg. Creation of Departments, Re-Organization of Teams within Departments, Election of Coordinators, and so on.
And define Due dates for each of these milestones.
And what about Responsibilities? If someone is responsible for something, like a milestone of the migration, he should try as better as possible to reach the target. And if he's not able to do it, he should step down or ask for help. Too many freezes in our processes, too many "lacks of power", too long timeslots. I know that we all are volunteers and all of us have a "real life", a real work and a family to deal with, but, no one obliges us to be in such a role within the Community and if we're not able to fulfill our responsibilities, we need to be honest with the whole community and leave the role to someone who has the energy and the time to make things happen.
But we need also a clear and strong communication line between teams who are working on this process. We have only few reports about the transition, and this is not the right way to work. Processes throughout the Community and the Project must be clear and transparent.
Regards,
George Wilson
Jul 26, 2016, 7:15:10 AM7/26/16
to Joomla Leadership Team
Hi Marijke,
I asked precisely because I couldn't find any OSM minutes (last ones in the volunteer portal are January 2015 and on the OSM website http://opensourcematters.org/about/organization/minutes/archive.html there's only minutes until the end of 2015).
I completely understand that you guys are in a tough position but at the end of the day even if you merge CLT and OSM you still have the same (too low) number of people doing the same tasks - I'm not really sure if it's actually going to help - especially if you are going to focus on the transition
I am also slightly concerned that CLT is almost completely absent from the map at the moment and I'm not sure that they can wait nearly 8 weeks for members (e.g. there's a good number of people who currently are unable to access emails).
Kind Regards,
George
On Monday, July 25, 2016 at 9:21:55 PM UTC+1, marijke.stuivenberg wrote:
Hi George,The current situation and the trouble we had to overcome it shows clearly how easy it is to get things stuck. Though technically we have 2 directors (Sarah and me) and the directors that stepped down in October are still members of the organization, it means their only permission to vote on anything is on directors at the AMM of OSM. Not on other issues. Furthermore not each director that stepped down is actively involved, though as members of OSM still invited and welcome at our meetings (without voting rights), if you check the meeting minutes of the last months, you'll see that it is only a handful. And to be frankly if you don't have any voting rights and just have to trust on my blue eyes that I will be listening and take opinions in consideration when voting, is not that motivating for them.Not only for the members w/o voting rights, and yes, I do listen to them and take their opinions in consideration. It also doesn't feel good as one of the few person with voting rights. For example, the whole process of appointing a new treasurer, where we had to amend the bylaws even to make it legal, felt to me like a huge dilemma. I could either vote against, and leave the whole project to a hold, or go with the decision to do so though it didn't feel like the right way to appoint an important role to somebody. (and that had nothing to do with personal feelings about Mike D.) So it isn't all that simple as counting heads.As I pointed out in the document I wrote, the most simple solution would be option 1, and for OSM to appoint a third director. But it makes me truly concerned about the future ahead. It's totally not unrealistic that in a couple of months time we face the same awkward situation or, god forbid, even worse. That is why I have been thinking about this proposal a lot and put it on the table.Hope it makes things more clear.Kind Regards,Marijke
2016-07-25 20:39 GMT+02:00 George Wilson <george.wilson@community.joomla.org>:
Hi Marijke,
How depleted is OSM. I know technically you are only 3 but my understanding was the old members were practically remaining in position. So aside from Vic quitting who else is around in osm practically?
Because if it's jus clt who are low on people I suggest that clt just replenish their ranks with their call for volunteers.
Kind Regards,
George
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David Jardin
Jul 26, 2016, 9:15:50 AM7/26/16
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Hi all,
I can fully confirm what George said: for CLT it’s an absolut must to get new team members as soon as humanily possible - waiting for another 8 - x weeks is not an option. We have tons of work to do and the current team is unable to handle this.
Therefore, I suggest we just move on with the current call for CLT and do the same with OSM in order to fix our most pressing issues.
Cheers,
David
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Kind Regards,
David Jardin
Marijke Stuivenberg
Jul 26, 2016, 9:38:46 AM7/26/16
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Hi George,
I'm not sure how you end up in the archive of the meeting minutes, but the latest ones can be found at http://opensourcematters.org/about/organization/minutes.html
Up to May 29, 2016, there is also one more set of minutes (June 30, 2016) waiting to be approved, but as we can't vote right now, we'll have to wait for that one.
I'm not sure if you fully understood the proposal as I wrote it. It's not exactly merging OSM and CLT with the current members. But have a call for nominations and elect members for this combined team/board. Since a number of teams under CLT and OSM have an overlap as it already is the case, less members will be needed (not one from OSM and one from CLT, but one from the combined team/board). Fresh and new members will have more energy to pick up the pieces and give the transition team a boost. Reading the mail of Luca fully bears this out.
I totally share your concern about the absence of CLT. I've been confronted with the problems of people not able to access their emails too, and do not have the right permissions and access to help them. The next concern that arises is how a team so low on members can conduct elections? I absolutely think this is an unhealthy situation and should be addressed in a better way than just putting a bandage on it.
About the timeline, I created an ample timeline, given the speed this leadership processes things. It could be shorter if.... well I think you can finish this sentence. ;)
Kind regards,
Marijke
2016-07-26 13:15 GMT+02:00 George Wilson <george...@community.joomla.org>:
Hi Marijke,I asked precisely because I couldn't find any OSM minutes (last ones in the volunteer portal are January 2015 and on the OSM website http://opensourcematters.org/about/organization/minutes/archive.html there's only minutes until the end of 2015).I completely understand that you guys are in a tough position but at the end of the day even if you merge CLT and OSM you still have the same (too low) number of people doing the same tasks - I'm not really sure if it's actually going to help - especially if you are going to focus on the transitionI am also slightly concerned that CLT is almost completely absent from the map at the moment and I'm not sure that they can wait nearly 8 weeks for members (e.g. there's a good number of people who currently are unable to access emails).Kind Regards,George
On Monday, July 25, 2016 at 9:21:55 PM UTC+1, marijke.stuivenberg wrote:
Hi George,The current situation and the trouble we had to overcome it shows clearly how easy it is to get things stuck. Though technically we have 2 directors (Sarah and me) and the directors that stepped down in October are still members of the organization, it means their only permission to vote on anything is on directors at the AMM of OSM. Not on other issues. Furthermore not each director that stepped down is actively involved, though as members of OSM still invited and welcome at our meetings (without voting rights), if you check the meeting minutes of the last months, you'll see that it is only a handful. And to be frankly if you don't have any voting rights and just have to trust on my blue eyes that I will be listening and take opinions in consideration when voting, is not that motivating for them.Not only for the members w/o voting rights, and yes, I do listen to them and take their opinions in consideration. It also doesn't feel good as one of the few person with voting rights. For example, the whole process of appointing a new treasurer, where we had to amend the bylaws even to make it legal, felt to me like a huge dilemma. I could either vote against, and leave the whole project to a hold, or go with the decision to do so though it didn't feel like the right way to appoint an important role to somebody. (and that had nothing to do with personal feelings about Mike D.) So it isn't all that simple as counting heads.As I pointed out in the document I wrote, the most simple solution would be option 1, and for OSM to appoint a third director. But it makes me truly concerned about the future ahead. It's totally not unrealistic that in a couple of months time we face the same awkward situation or, god forbid, even worse. That is why I have been thinking about this proposal a lot and put it on the table.Hope it makes things more clear.Kind Regards,Marijke
2016-07-25 20:39 GMT+02:00 George Wilson <george...@community.joomla.org>:
Hi Marijke,
How depleted is OSM. I know technically you are only 3 but my understanding was the old members were practically remaining in position. So aside from Vic quitting who else is around in osm practically?
Because if it's jus clt who are low on people I suggest that clt just replenish their ranks with their call for volunteers.
Kind Regards,
George
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Marijke Stuivenberg
Jul 26, 2016, 9:38:46 AM7/26/16
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Hi Luca,
First of all let me congratulate you and CLT with your appointment to the PLT. I believe you're a great complement to the PLT and to the Leadership as a whole. The way you express your enthusiasm and vision shows exactly what we need on this leadership. But more people and preferably at the same table. I think everyone here in leadership started of with this enthusiasm, but things slightly temper and turn into frustrations since the way we are organized in silos. We simply fail to get around this obstacle and to me that is one of the reasons that we have discussed to change the structure for years, but so far failed to get there.
It's not the mistake of the transition team, and I applaud the people in there that stay focussed and work hard. But the simple fact that there is not really a leadership that supports them, one simple point they can turn to, report to, is a huge hurdle.
By creating such a team/board as I proposed, it will help the transition team immensely in the process to the new structure.
There is movement in the transition, it's not dead. However my concern is that putting a bandage on the current teams in need, and stay in this structure of silos, will not do any good.
Thank you for your vision, there is a lot of truth in it that we're all aware of but somehow not are able to make it happen.
Kind Regards,
Marijke
Marijke Stuivenberg
Jul 26, 2016, 10:13:01 AM7/26/16
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Hi David,
I'm almost positive that CLT's most pressing issues can be solved in another way than the process of the current call and conducting elections.
Yes, I think all leadership teams have tons of work to do, but if we go on on the same way, things will not be fixed.
Consider this a wake up call, therefore I suggest CLT reconsiders things and go for a more solid solution that will finally break away some barriers.
Acting in silos sure isn't.
Regards,
Marijke
2016-07-26 15:15 GMT+02:00 David Jardin <david....@community.joomla.org>:
Hi all,I can fully confirm what George said: for CLT it’s an absolut must to get new team members as soon as humanily possible - waiting for another 8 - x weeks is not an option. We have tons of work to do and the current team is unable to handle this.Therefore, I suggest we just move on with the current call for CLT and do the same with OSM in order to fix our most pressing issues.Cheers,David
Am 26. Juli 2016 um 13:15:12, George Wilson (george...@community.joomla.org) schrieb:
Hi Marijke,I asked precisely because I couldn't find any OSM minutes (last ones in the volunteer portal are January 2015 and on the OSM website http://opensourcematters.org/about/organization/minutes/archive.html there's only minutes until the end of 2015).I completely understand that you guys are in a tough position but at the end of the day even if you merge CLT and OSM you still have the same (too low) number of people doing the same tasks - I'm not really sure if it's actually going to help - especially if you are going to focus on the transitionI am also slightly concerned that CLT is almost completely absent from the map at the moment and I'm not sure that they can wait nearly 8 weeks for members (e.g. there's a good number of people who currently are unable to access emails).Kind Regards,George
On Monday, July 25, 2016 at 9:21:55 PM UTC+1, marijke.stuivenberg wrote:
Hi George,The current situation and the trouble we had to overcome it shows clearly how easy it is to get things stuck. Though technically we have 2 directors (Sarah and me) and the directors that stepped down in October are still members of the organization, it means their only permission to vote on anything is on directors at the AMM of OSM. Not on other issues. Furthermore not each director that stepped down is actively involved, though as members of OSM still invited and welcome at our meetings (without voting rights), if you check the meeting minutes of the last months, you'll see that it is only a handful. And to be frankly if you don't have any voting rights and just have to trust on my blue eyes that I will be listening and take opinions in consideration when voting, is not that motivating for them.Not only for the members w/o voting rights, and yes, I do listen to them and take their opinions in consideration. It also doesn't feel good as one of the few person with voting rights. For example, the whole process of appointing a new treasurer, where we had to amend the bylaws even to make it legal, felt to me like a huge dilemma. I could either vote against, and leave the whole project to a hold, or go with the decision to do so though it didn't feel like the right way to appoint an important role to somebody. (and that had nothing to do with personal feelings about Mike D.) So it isn't all that simple as counting heads.As I pointed out in the document I wrote, the most simple solution would be option 1, and for OSM to appoint a third director. But it makes me truly concerned about the future ahead. It's totally not unrealistic that in a couple of months time we face the same awkward situation or, god forbid, even worse. That is why I have been thinking about this proposal a lot and put it on the table.Hope it makes things more clear.Kind Regards,Marijke
2016-07-25 20:39 GMT+02:00 George Wilson <george...@community.joomla.org>:
Hi Marijke,
How depleted is OSM. I know technically you are only 3 but my understanding was the old members were practically remaining in position. So aside from Vic quitting who else is around in osm practically?
Because if it's jus clt who are low on people I suggest that clt just replenish their ranks with their call for volunteers.
Kind Regards,
George
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--Kind Regards,David Jardin
Robert Deutz
Jul 26, 2016, 10:33:51 AM7/26/16
to Joomla Leadership Team
Hi Marijke,
thanks for taking the time and write the proposal, I am afraid but it doesn't address the main problem that people don't get there lazy ass from the couch and deliver the work they have volunteered to do. I don't have any confidence that setting up a new timeline will change things or lead to results. We had a meeting with a lot of leadership people in Feb (or was it March?) with a clear timeline, I asked in the leadership list after we already missed some of the set dates, nobody took the time to send an answer. I only see two ways to handle the situation:
a) declare the structure change failed and go back to three teams
b) do one baby step after the other
While a) sounds good (I still think the structure change was a bad idea, only hit by the idea that it will be implemented magically without lifting a finger) I prefer b). This leadership is so dysfunctional that we really need to get rid of the current members. So here is what I would do:
Add members to CLT and OSM so that this team can do the most pressing tasks. However the teams are doing it, I don’t care just add them. OSM has to vote on the budget so that we might have a budget after 8 months and after teams have agreed on a budget mid May.
We finish the team building on the volunteers Portal, all needed additions to the code base are done and I can update the site if the transition team says „go“.
Give teams 3 weeks to vote on a team leader. Then we have the base setup to vote on department coordinators and to move forward.
In the meantime make plans for the next steps.
Cheers,
Robert
thanks for taking the time and write the proposal, I am afraid but it doesn't address the main problem that people don't get there lazy ass from the couch and deliver the work they have volunteered to do. I don't have any confidence that setting up a new timeline will change things or lead to results. We had a meeting with a lot of leadership people in Feb (or was it March?) with a clear timeline, I asked in the leadership list after we already missed some of the set dates, nobody took the time to send an answer. I only see two ways to handle the situation:
a) declare the structure change failed and go back to three teams
b) do one baby step after the other
While a) sounds good (I still think the structure change was a bad idea, only hit by the idea that it will be implemented magically without lifting a finger) I prefer b). This leadership is so dysfunctional that we really need to get rid of the current members. So here is what I would do:
Add members to CLT and OSM so that this team can do the most pressing tasks. However the teams are doing it, I don’t care just add them. OSM has to vote on the budget so that we might have a budget after 8 months and after teams have agreed on a budget mid May.
We finish the team building on the volunteers Portal, all needed additions to the code base are done and I can update the site if the transition team says „go“.
Give teams 3 weeks to vote on a team leader. Then we have the base setup to vote on department coordinators and to move forward.
In the meantime make plans for the next steps.
Cheers,
Robert
David Jardin
Jul 26, 2016, 11:01:18 AM7/26/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
Hi Marijke,
I really don’t think that the mentioned „silos“ are the most pressing issue that we are experiencing right now. For me, it’s the fact that my team is close to being completely disfunctional i.e. leaving numerous people without access to their email account or leaving teams without a liasion. This is a massive road blocker and needs to be fixed as soon as humanely possible.
Taking another „let’s have a look if we can fix this from in a long term perspective“-will not solve this issue in an acceptable timeframe.
Cheers,
David
Marijke Stuivenberg
Jul 26, 2016, 11:12:19 AM7/26/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
Hi Robert,
It might sound crazy but in fact what you propose is the same what I did propose.
With that distinction that to me it sounds as a logical step to join forces for the two teams (OSM and CLT) and not have them conduct a call of nominations and elections separately. While we can not be sure if that will solve issues, we can absolutely be sure that doing it separately and keep the current structure in tact, put a bandage around it, will not solve anything either. I think I pointed that out in the document.
So what is against the part of combining the call and elections and create one team/board where there is already a lot of overlap? In the meanwhile, production (PLT) will not change. We just run the risk that we loose one barrier.... which I don't think is a bad thing.
Don't start about 3 weeks to vote, I have lost any confidence in any timeline as you already pointed out. I did not believe in such optimistic timelines last year, I did not believe it in February, and I will not believe it now. Only now I do say it out loud and don't give it the advantage of the doubt anymore.
It also wont prevent the work going on in the transition team, nor rolling out the new volunteer portal.
Cheers,
Marijke
Marijke Stuivenberg
Jul 26, 2016, 11:16:06 AM7/26/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
Hi david,
There is no „let’s have a look if we can fix this from in a long term perspective“ - what it is is a wake up call.
If it is just the timeline, that one is easily to overcome when we start working together!
I know that there are very urgent issues to solve, I'm confronted with them myself! People that are not getting answers from CLT, it's not only the email thing, which is one that could be foreseen and prevented imho. It's more then that, but most of all it concerns getting people access to the right instances to fix thing. Not something you'll need a complete election procedure for.
If you an fix things in a more solid way, what would be against that?
Cheers,
Marijke
Robert Deutz
Jul 26, 2016, 12:03:52 PM7/26/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
Hi Marijke,
no I am not proposing that same as you did, you are proposing a timeline where people can hide behind, again. I say lets get the shit done.
If OSM not functional it is OSM jobs to get it working again.
The CLT is on the way to make them work again.
PLT is in the good situation that PLT has acted as the vote wasn't done and nothing has changed.
The structure change isn't implemented so we have the old structure, no need to join teams or to build a interim structure.
I have zero interest in a discussion about a plan to move forward, assign tasks to people and wait till some else did his job or not.
There are jobs on the table let's do it.
Cheers,
Robert
Martijn Boomsma
Jul 26, 2016, 4:20:29 PM7/26/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
Hi Marijke,
Thank you very much for your work on this proposal and the effort to resolve silo's and move forward. I think it could be very helpful for PLT and CLT (and other team)members
also being on OSM but it's clearly a responsibility not many enjoy. Apparently it's
more responsibility than most volunteers can or are willing / motivated to
handle for more than a year or so (unlike yourself!).Unfortunately OSM has the legal formalities to uphold which seem to make everything more complicated, OSM cannot just make up their nomination/member rules as they see fit (like PLT and CLT).
I don't think you have had anyone yet of the current "joomla-leadership" who seem to be interested in the opportunity to join OSM as member. Maybe that still changes in the timeline you had in mind (before August 2nd). But even if they do, how would that work (legally)? Will the available current members have to vote them in? Would we even have enough interested members to become directors and form a new board? I wonder.
Let's hope than that the remaining active OSM members can find and elect new directors who have fresh energy to take on the responsibility, New directors who can also enjoy discussions (and make them effective and worthwile), And who can take as sufficient reward the amazing (dis/)respect of the (undefined) Joomla community. And let nobody of the current LT's complain about the results, you will have had your chance to be part of it. Ahh.. I know, that's wishfull thinking ;)
Warm Regards,
Martijn Boomsma
Open Source Matters Inc.
http://www.opensourcematters.org/
Joomla! http://www.joomla.org/
Martijn Boomsma
Open Source Matters Inc.
http://www.opensourcematters.org/
Joomla! http://www.joomla.org/
Luca Marzo
Jul 31, 2016, 7:38:41 PM7/31/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
Hi Marijke and all the others,
I was waiting to post another message in the group to see other Leadership members' messages.
I can understand your points and feelings about "enthusiasm transformed in frustrations". And I can understand and agree on the "Silos organization", that's one of the things that should be changed as soon as possible, but not only in Leadership. This need to be changed all over the project. As I mentioned in my previous post, this Community lacks communications.
I read also messaged from David who finally is starting to move things in CLT. Thank you David for your effort.
And about Robert, we all know that he has a practical and "let's do" approach, and, to be honest, I like this kind of approach.
As underlined by Martijn and by Marijke, being OSM member is a responsibility that could be very difficult to "enjoy" and completely handle.
OSM has the legal formalities, we know, but until now, also OSM was affected by the "Silo issue"...
We, together, as LTs should work to solve this blocking issue.
Maybe OSM could consider involving actual Leadership Team members as OSM member and organize the AMM to renew the board, or (short term solution) vote to elect a new director to drive the board to the next AMM.
It's not to put a bandage or to create a "workaround", but to face a blocking issue that is "freezing" the project.
The Joomla! Project needs to have a budget and this is not for travels, but for Programs, for things that we planned and we need to do. Think to Google Summer of Code, think to Code Sprints, think to Marketing... and think also to other stuff that needs a working Board of Directors to proceed... an example? Certification Program.... Contracts are waiting for approval for a very long time.
We need a working board. We need working Leadership, we need active teams and processes.
You know I'm an enthusiast, but I'm absolutely sure that we all love Joomla! (both the Project and the Community) and we should remember that we've been elected or nominated in Leadership positions to serve this Community and help this Project to grow.
So let's face this situation together and make things working again.
I was waiting to post another message in the group to see other Leadership members' messages.
I can understand your points and feelings about "enthusiasm transformed in frustrations". And I can understand and agree on the "Silos organization", that's one of the things that should be changed as soon as possible, but not only in Leadership. This need to be changed all over the project. As I mentioned in my previous post, this Community lacks communications.
I read also messaged from David who finally is starting to move things in CLT. Thank you David for your effort.
And about Robert, we all know that he has a practical and "let's do" approach, and, to be honest, I like this kind of approach.
As underlined by Martijn and by Marijke, being OSM member is a responsibility that could be very difficult to "enjoy" and completely handle.
OSM has the legal formalities, we know, but until now, also OSM was affected by the "Silo issue"...
We, together, as LTs should work to solve this blocking issue.
Maybe OSM could consider involving actual Leadership Team members as OSM member and organize the AMM to renew the board, or (short term solution) vote to elect a new director to drive the board to the next AMM.
It's not to put a bandage or to create a "workaround", but to face a blocking issue that is "freezing" the project.
The Joomla! Project needs to have a budget and this is not for travels, but for Programs, for things that we planned and we need to do. Think to Google Summer of Code, think to Code Sprints, think to Marketing... and think also to other stuff that needs a working Board of Directors to proceed... an example? Certification Program.... Contracts are waiting for approval for a very long time.
We need a working board. We need working Leadership, we need active teams and processes.
You know I'm an enthusiast, but I'm absolutely sure that we all love Joomla! (both the Project and the Community) and we should remember that we've been elected or nominated in Leadership positions to serve this Community and help this Project to grow.
So let's face this situation together and make things working again.
Cheers,
Ronni Christiansen
Aug 2, 2016, 2:54:57 AM8/2/16
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com
There are multiple problems in the proposal from a legal perspective and its not so realistic as is.
I would also say it makes no sense to go at this when we could in all fairness be having elections for new leadership team in the new structures by the same timeframe.
What needs to happen would be more like:
1) OSM picks a replacement Director (which requires FAR less work than any other option at all)
2) CLT gets some more members to help do the work on their part until next election (OSM Still has most of the old Directors, myself included, helping out unofficially - OSM is NOT missing people whos working at this point only a replacement director)
3) We finalize transitions and hold the new elections
Even with a pessimistic timeframe we should be able to have the new Leadership Team elected latest by the end of September.
Even with a pessimistic timeframe we should be able to have the new Leadership Team elected latest by the end of September.
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