COC a different approach

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Robert Deutz

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Jul 23, 2015, 3:37:06 PM7/23/15
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Hi everybody,

I am sure you will love that post. Here is what I know or what I think about COC:

It is totally useless in a world with real adults where everywhere respects each other. Unfortunately we don’t life in such a world, so we need published rules and make clear what are our values and how we expect that people behave. We are as the Joomla! community have a big part of native English speakers but we have even more people that are not so good in expressing there minds in english (me included). So I think it is important that our rules are easy to understand and further more short and sweet. Even native speaker haven’t so much fun to read 48 pages or maybe 8 pages of text. So what is the value in a large document with rules nobody reads? Nothing I would say but there might be a value, but a bad one, when people are using this document against someone else. I can bring any complain in a one page document against someone else if I like, easy task for a 8 pages document. More easier when we have 3 other documents that are related in some way, I still don’t know if they are part of the vote. (a bit bitching see footnote 1).


So I would like to suggest something that fits better in our community. I have seen it in a tweet today and I really like it. It is easy to understand, it is short and the best of all it follows something what is popular at the moment in development „invented somewhere else“. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel when we have 20 perfectly round wheels available.

I know a lot of people have spent time to work on the existing one. Tbh you wasted your time, I am so sorry.

So here is the like to the website:

http://contributor-covenant.org

and to the COC:

http://contributor-covenant.org/version/1/2/0/

If people think this is a better way to go then I am happy to bring in a motion.

Cheers,
Robert


dash dash space
1) Why we are voting when some says that all is useless because OSM is the thing that needs to vote. Isn’t there something wrong in our community when decisions or the ability to make decisions is restricted to a small part and members of THIS organisation don’t get tired to tell others they don’t count.




Victor Drover

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Jul 23, 2015, 10:25:46 PM7/23/15
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Robert. it seems you continue to fight many small battles from a pre-structure change standpoint. You made it very clear you don't approve of the new structure, but the leadership as a whole made the change. The new structure centralizes the project even more than before, so I think you will be perpetually frustrated with central decisions. I don't see the value in continuing to complain about it. You don't agree. We all recognize it. Can we move on now?

Also, didn't you retire or something? 

As to your specific comments about the code of conduct, it seems a bit late to the game. Why not contribute to a simple summary of the COC document similar to what you linked to?

Finally, it is very peculiar to read these 2 sentences:

I know a lot of people have spent time to work on the existing one. Tbh you wasted your time, I am so sorry.

and

 Isn’t there something wrong in our community when decisions or the ability to make decisions is restricted to a small part and members of THIS organisation don’t get tired to tell others they don’t count.

First you tell the COC contributors they wasted their time, then complain that a small group is making decisions for the group. The irony is pretty thick here.






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Ronni Christiansen

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Jul 23, 2015, 11:58:50 PM7/23/15
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"1) Why we are voting when some says that all is useless because OSM is the thing that needs to vote. Isn’t there something wrong in our community when decisions or the ability to make decisions is restricted to a small part and members of THIS organisation don’t get tired to tell others they don’t Count."

You seem to completely faily to understand the point i made in another thread.

Leadership can select to vote on something and agree something - but anything that has to officially be a part of the rules of the organization HAS to be voted on and ratified by OSM or it has no legal value at all.

The real world and its Laws apply to our organization so we need to comply with the law and make sure everything is run by the books.

So any vote, what so ever, made by the combined leadership (OSM, PLT, CLT) has to be ratified on an OSM meeting if it in any way affects the rules / bylaws / producedures of the organization.

Message has been deleted

jessica...@community.joomla.org

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Jul 24, 2015, 1:32:47 PM7/24/15
to Joomla Leadership Team, robert...@community.joomla.org, robert...@community.joomla.org
“English speakers but we have even more people that are not so good in expressing there minds in english (me included).” 

Thank you Robert for reminding us all of this. I’m 100% behind simplifying this. 

Vic I’m not sure why you assume the worst.
We need to take ownership, accountability and work towards being culturally competent. He may not of expressed his sincerity in the best way, but you immediately came to the conclusion of bad intent rather than looking at language barriers.  Open source is about freely exchanging ideas and creating an environment where we can build off each other. Robert found a way to simplify a poorly communicated and overly complex set of documents, and you find a way to discourage new ideas. 

“Also, didn't you retire or something? “
As for Roberts retirement, the PLT would love for Robert to stay on through the transition.  Robert has been actively and officially participating as a PLT member.  And we appreciate all the work he does.  (time for some PLT hugs and a burrito) ;) 
Actually Robert, I wish you would reconsider.

jessica...@community.joomla.org

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Jul 24, 2015, 2:05:24 PM7/24/15
to Joomla Leadership Team, robert...@community.joomla.org, robert...@community.joomla.org
the deleted comment, it was me. I thought I replied private instead of public. I deleted it and the reposted.

Victor Drover

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Jul 24, 2015, 9:29:04 PM7/24/15
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I would love a simplifed version also, as I said above, so why not write one instead of one person telling a group they wasted their time? It's exactly what you say you don't want.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:05 PM, <jessica...@community.joomla.org> wrote:
the deleted comment, it was me. I thought I replied private instead of public. I deleted it and the reposted.

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Tessa Mero

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Jul 24, 2015, 9:34:00 PM7/24/15
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Robert did offer a suggestion. He posted the link to a simplified open source COC document.


Dianne Henning

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Jul 24, 2015, 9:54:37 PM7/24/15
to joomla-l...@googlegroups.com, Robert Deutz
Ruth is away until Monday. Can we close this discussion until the team can meet? 

Thanks for the support. 


Dianne Henning
Joomla! Community Leadership Team 
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