What’s the roadmap and timeline for 3.5

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dgt41

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Mar 6, 2015, 10:21:06 AM3/6/15
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A 3.5-dev repo is already up! Roberto is gonna be the release master for 3.5! But what shall we expect from 3.5?
Decoupling of more components/modules/plugins? Which of them? Are we gonna introduce an installer builder a’la bootstrap?
Layouts will be there! How extensive will this be?
A new accessible admin template?
More code from the framework?
What else?
What is the timeframe for all these?

PS I don’t know if this is a direct inquiry to Roberto or more a PLT thing, thus the post here…

Leo Lammerink

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Mar 6, 2015, 10:33:33 AM3/6/15
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Nothing decided yet as far as I know. Trying to get Jooml3.4 working and fixed where applicable. Next version will be Joomla 3.4.1 coming soon

Leo 8)
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Michael Babker

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Mar 6, 2015, 10:44:14 AM3/6/15
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Still not too early to get the ball rolling on 3.5, even ensuring everyone is aware of the intended roadmap (as we did for 3.4, even if the timeline was missed by a lot).  Do agree though that the main code focus right now should be dealing with the 3.4.0 bugs.

George Wilson

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Mar 6, 2015, 12:46:00 PM3/6/15
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3.4.1 I'm hoping to get out next week to deal with the immediate 3.4.0 bugs. I believe Roberto is working on a blog post detailing his vision for 3.5 :)

Kind Regards,
George


On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 3:44:14 PM UTC, Michael Babker wrote:
Still not too early to get the ball rolling on 3.5, even ensuring everyone is aware of the intended roadmap (as we did for 3.4, even if the timeline was missed by a lot).  Do agree though that the main code focus right now should be dealing with the 3.4.0 bugs.
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Leo Lammerink <gws...@gmail.com> wrote:
Nothing decided yet as far as I know. Trying to get Jooml3.4 working and fixed where applicable. Next version will be Joomla 3.4.1 coming soon

Leo 8)


On 3/6/2015 10:21 PM, dgt41 wrote:
A 3.5-dev repo is already up! Roberto is gonna be the release master for 3.5! But what shall we expect from 3.5?
Decoupling of more components/modules/plugins? Which of them? Are we gonna introduce an installer builder a’la bootstrap?
Layouts will be there! How extensive will this be?
A new accessible admin template?
More code from the framework?
What else?
What is the timeframe for all these?

PS I don’t know if this is a direct inquiry to Roberto or more a PLT thing, thus the post here…
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Roberto Segura

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Mar 6, 2015, 12:53:42 PM3/6/15
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Yes :)

I think a lot of people is really wanting to see v3.5 and the best is that a lot of people is wanting to collaborate on it. We have talked too much and delayed some proposals to v3.5.

I'm really happy to see so much interest and I hope to create a plan that allows anybody to jump in and help with anything he is able to do. We need to release something epic :-D

Blog post next week.



El viernes, 6 de marzo de 2015, 18:46:00 (UTC+1), George Wilson escribió:
3.4.1 I'm hoping to get out next week to deal with the immediate 3.4.0 bugs. I believe Roberto is working on a blog post detailing his vision for 3.5 :)

Kind Regards,
George

On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 3:44:14 PM UTC, Michael Babker wrote:
Still not too early to get the ball rolling on 3.5, even ensuring everyone is aware of the intended roadmap (as we did for 3.4, even if the timeline was missed by a lot).  Do agree though that the main code focus right now should be dealing with the 3.4.0 bugs.
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Leo Lammerink <gws...@gmail.com> wrote:
Nothing decided yet as far as I know. Trying to get Jooml3.4 working and fixed where applicable. Next version will be Joomla 3.4.1 coming soon

Leo 8)


On 3/6/2015 10:21 PM, dgt41 wrote:
A 3.5-dev repo is already up! Roberto is gonna be the release master for 3.5! But what shall we expect from 3.5?
Decoupling of more components/modules/plugins? Which of them? Are we gonna introduce an installer builder a’la bootstrap?
Layouts will be there! How extensive will this be?
A new accessible admin template?
More code from the framework?
What else?
What is the timeframe for all these?

PS I don’t know if this is a direct inquiry to Roberto or more a PLT thing, thus the post here…
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yannick berges

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Mar 7, 2015, 3:46:30 AM3/7/15
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It will be great to addnew media manager and new router
Thanks for you works team

Beat

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Mar 7, 2015, 6:14:00 AM3/7/15
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Great news Roberto!

Yes, something Epic, and trying to go back to more regular minor release schedule would really be cool!

Just having a way better media manager is awesome. When it is ready, it is worth *not* delaying 3.5 to wait for other killer-features. I have experienced that by releasing often, the drama and stress around each release decreases VERY significantly. ;-)

Thanks a lot for stepping in to manage 3.5 and

Best Regards,
Beat
http://www.joomlapolis.com/

Hannes Papenberg

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Mar 7, 2015, 7:01:35 AM3/7/15
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From my experience, the phrases "epic release" and "release early and
often" contradict each other. So please don't plan to make the biggest,
coolest release in the shortest time ever. That screams for epic. Epic
failure.

As I said in the Joomla Bugsquad, I'd like to see the following features
in Joomla 3.5:
- Routing
- Reviewing our unit tests and extending them to reach 50% real code
coverage in terms of lines of code and 40% of code coverage in terms of
functions/methods.

I don't know the status of the media manager, but if it is ready, go for it.

That would be what I would want to see in 3.5. At the same time I would
like us to open up a 3.6-dev branch where we start NOW on the future MVC
classes and a new JForm. I don't think that a strategy will work
longterm, that aims for quick releases and promises certain features in
a release, but at the same time only allows the timeframe between the
last release and the next release to develop such a feature. Plan at
least one version ahead and then we will also be able to make the
proposed release dates. A new JForm system for example will most likely
require 6-9 months to be somewhat solid, tested and reviewed. I also
don't see a big issue in also planning for 3.7 at this point and for
example prepare a tutorial system/guided wizard system for Joomla and an
improved UI. Again, something that is necessary and that will take more
time than we currently have between releases.

Hannes
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Roberto Segura

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Mar 8, 2015, 5:31:42 AM3/8/15
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Hi Hannes,

I don't think v.3.5 is going to be something fast. Maybe using "epic" was wrong but I really hope to bring some parts that were required for a long time like the hability to fully customize the markup that Joomla outputs.

I also think we have to also listen to the users and worry about what they want. A good example is the new media manager. Some of our efforts have to go in that direction if that's what people demands. But one thing I don't want to do is to release something that I'm not confident or that will damage next releases health. I'll try to check it and see if we can pulish it so it can be added. At this point I think is possible but I need time to evaluate it, discuss it and then create a plan for it. All that done in a transparent way so users can:

  • See what is being considered.
  • Send thoughts about it.
  • Understand why something is set as "not ready" and then delayed to the next release.

But hey I'm writing that blog post!! :D

Karlos Rikáryo

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Mar 8, 2015, 7:46:30 PM3/8/15
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I believe there are many interesting things to add to the Joomla! 3.5, including features that comnunidade snake since version 1.5, but for lack of knowledge was interested not want discussed, although presented.

1 - Media Manager, (the current deprecated a long time and has influence when choosing the CMS, people love the WP due to the ease of managing images)

2 - Limiting characters / hide text of the blog caterias (can escolhar how many columns, articles, but we can not choose the amount of letters in the original text of the article, and read more button for a portal project that involves many people affect you and very the day-to-day).

3 - Language button in the edition of Frontand (no hiding the same in 3.4 did not see this change and when it is necessary to clean the editor that button is the only one that can not be hidden).

For future release, in addition to updates scripts, I believe that a task force with the Media Manager and limiting characters in blog is required.

But let's write this down and keep the focus on newly released version: Joomla! 3.4 that really needs our attention at the time.

hug

---------------------- PT-BR--------------------

Acredito que existem muitas coisas interessantes para add ao Joomla! 3.5, inclusive funcionalidades que a comnunidade cobra desde a versão 1.5, mas por falta de conhecimento do interessados não foi se quer discutido, apesar de apresentados.

1 - Gerenciador de Mídia, (o atual esta obsoleto faz tempo e tem influencia na hora da escolha do do CMS, as pessoas adoram o WP por conta da facilidade de gerenciar as imagens)

2 - Limitador de caracteres/ocultar texto da caterias blog (podemos escolhar quantas colunas, artigos, mas não podemos escolher a quantidade de letras no textos inicial do artigo, e o botão leia mais para um projeto de portal que envolve muitas pessoas prejudica o e muito o dia-a-dia).

3 - Botão de idioma na edição da Frontand (não tem como ocultar o mesmo, na 3.4 não vi essa alteração e quando é necessário limpar o editor esse botão é o unico que não pode ser ocultado).

Para a versão futura, além das atualizações de scripts, acredito que seja necessária uma força tarefa com o gerenciador de mídia e limitador de caracteres em blog.

Mas vamos anotar isso e manter o foco na versão recem lançada: Joomla! 3.4 que precisa muito da nossa atenção no momento.

abraço

Rikáryo
Joomla! Brasil

Em Sun, 08 Mar 2015 06:31:42 -0300, Roberto Segura <rob...@phproberto.com> escreveu:

I don't think v.3.5 is going to be something fast. Maybe using "epic" was wrong but I really hope to bring some parts that were required for a long time like the hability to fully customize the markup that Joomla outputs. I also think we have to also listen to the users and worry about what they want. A good example is the new media manager. Some of our efforts have to go in that direction if that's what people demands. But one thing I don't want to do is to release something that I'm not confident or that will damage next releases health. I'll try to check it and see if we can pulish it so it can be added. At this point I think is possible but I need time to evaluate it, discuss it and then create a plan for it. All that done in a transparent way so users can: See what is being considered. Send thoughts about it. Understand why something is set as "not ready" and then delayed to the next release. But hey I'm writing that blog post!! :D



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Tomasz Wędziński

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Mar 9, 2015, 8:51:43 AM3/9/15
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I think that 3.5 should be released as soon as possible even with new router only. It is a milestone.

When I talk with customers there is couple things they don't like about Joomla.
- it's complicated
- bad for SEO (duplicated content is bad for SEO)

If you plan to release 3.5 with other features in less than 3 month than ok, it could wait. But if there is a chance it will take more time than would be better to release 3.5 with New Router only and everything else put in 3.6

It will be good for marketing/PR.

I tested Media Manager and there is some stuff to work on. For example using filter overwrite original file without Saving. So it is not ready IMO.

dgt41

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May 17, 2015, 3:24:47 PM5/17/15
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After about 10 weeks most of us are still in the darkness. No post for 3.5!

Many requests in this thread:
Routing
Layout
Unit testing
Media manager

So can we have some sort of update, in order to raise or lower our expectations?

Also if the new Layout is still a concept can we go ahead and merge those few PR that convert the outstanding fields from mootools to bootstrap?

At least we can eliminate that bloody JS framework in the core and let the 3PD follow that path…

Dimitris

George Wilson

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May 17, 2015, 5:07:51 PM5/17/15
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Hi,
I've drafted an update blog post on this - because of the structural change announcement and an imminent blog post on that coming I've agreed with them to delay the blog post on the 3.5 update until Friday. Keep an eye out then for an update!

Kind Regards,
George

dgt41

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May 17, 2015, 5:26:10 PM5/17/15
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Thanks George

I guess I should have waited for the other post instead of bringing attention here. My bad!

I hope to see you in JAB in few days.

Dimitris

Walt Sorensen

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May 19, 2015, 1:52:03 PM5/19/15
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I'm hoping that in 3.5 we'll be able to implement the coding standards fixers from PHPCS-2.x in our custom sniffs. I'm working on making the migration to PHPCS-2 There is a lot of work rewriting our custom sniffs just to work with the changes in PHPCS-2.x

Other than that, I hope there can be work put in to more officially deprecating the "Legacy" class library in the code used by the CMS.
Such that the CMS core would eliminate the use of the Legacy classes (JControllerLegacy, JViewLegacy, JModelLegacy) and complete the migration to the new base classes as demonstrated with the Lendr tutorial. While leaving the Legacy library in place in the package for developers to use so that we don't suddenly introduce any new B/C brakes or migration issues.

Michael Babker

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May 19, 2015, 2:21:42 PM5/19/15
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I think there are 3 high level and viable code related goals for 3.5 on the table right now (all tasks started, just needing major testing and review):

3) Layout Enhancements (that's scattered around but I know some is in a separate repo)

Those are all areas we know need improvements and there are efforts started around them.  Not to say there isn't other good work ongoing, but these three things jump out at me as things that have been brought up for a while and just need to be done.

The PHPCS stuff I see happening in two steps: the first one is getting our main coding standards repo updated onto the current code set and the second being a bit of refactoring on the ruleset in the CMS so that it extends the main ruleset instead of basically being a fork of it, and that's a task independent of a release I think (should be something I can jump in on after JAB finishes up).  Same can be said for working on PHP 7 & HHVM compatibility issues; those are an ongoing thing and shouldn't be pegged to a version milestone.

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George Wilson

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May 22, 2015, 5:56:00 PM5/22/15
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Joomla 3.5 announcement I promised http://developer.joomla.org/news/614-joomla-3-5-update.html

Sorry it's a bit later than I intended but things got busy today!

Kind Regards,
George
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Andrew Eddie

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May 24, 2015, 7:49:55 PM5/24/15
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I think it's good that less things are being focused on at any one time. We can't focus on too many things and this is a good, if only subtle change in direction.

However, I do question whether code reform can be done (speaking to the router) when there is no clear plan as to what that code reform might entail. Personally, I'd seriously considering freezing the API as of 3.4 and making the most of it, and then constructing a plan for how we want the code to eventually be. Otherwise we are just continuing on the same merry-go-round we've been on for the last 10 years (and more recently there have been a number of adhoc attempts at code reform that have all failed to really deliver - and I was a part of one of them).  If that means putting the brakes on for a while, and just making sure the CMS gets less buggy, that's not a bad thing.

Regards,
Andrew Eddie

Allrude

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May 25, 2015, 6:18:03 AM5/25/15
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Op maandag 25 mei 2015 01:49:55 UTC+2 schreef Andrew Eddie:
> Joomla 3.5 announcement I promised http://developer.joomla.org/news/614-joomla-3-5-update.html

I think it's good that less things are being focused on at any one time. We can't focus on too many things and this is a good, if only subtle change in direction.

However, I do question whether code reform can be done (speaking to the router) when there is no clear plan as to what that code reform might entail. Personally, I'd seriously considering freezing the API as of 3.4 and making the most of it, and then constructing a plan for how we want the code to eventually be. Otherwise we are just continuing on the same merry-go-round we've been on for the last 10 years (and more recently there have been a number of adhoc attempts at code reform that have all failed to really deliver - and I was a part of one of them).  If that means putting the brakes on for a while, and just making sure the CMS gets less buggy, that's not a bad thing.


Putting the brakes on ???, we have been doing that since the introduction of J3, 

okay a lot of people have worked hard since then on improvements, removing mootools etc etc but no real structured move to a J3.5 stable we were planing to release.

We did uncouple 1 core extension and that took us .... almost a year since it started ??, by now all extensions should have been uncoupled, given the time we had.

Time to stop wasting valuable resources on fixing what cant be fixed (while trying to be BC, what a dogma, one of the the doctrines of the Joomla religion).

Stop writing code thats already available, stop reinventing the weel, stop J3 development, put it in maintenance mode.

Get the noses in one direction and start building J4

if it isn't broken don't fix it, if its broken beyond repair stop fixing it, build a new one with wat you learned the last ten years, and lets try not to repeat our mistakes

Time for the "new leadership" to lead and give the PLT room and resources and support and a clear statement were we want to be this day next year.


Johan Janssens

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May 25, 2015, 8:30:46 PM5/25/15
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Thanks George for the update! Happy to read there is a clear focus for 3.5 and Hannes his routing refactor also also planned to be included.

I'm happy to lend an hand on JLayouts. Is there any more information to be found about what you are trying to accomplish ?

Thanks!

Johan
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Robert Vining

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May 27, 2015, 1:56:07 PM5/27/15
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Hi Allrude, I think you and Andrew both said the same thing. Lock down the API as of 3.4 and start planning 4.0 now.

At least that's how I took it.

dgt41

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May 27, 2015, 2:26:51 PM5/27/15
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Personally, I'd seriously considering freezing the API as of 3.4 and making the most of it

Can we postpone this for 3.5? 
The reasons from my point of view:
- Completely drop mootools in core
- Make some adjustments for inline scripts (everything should pass through API)

Let’s drag less baggages...

Dimitris

Allrude

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May 27, 2015, 3:54:42 PM5/27/15
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+1 you did great work on removing mootools and get Jquery working Dimitris.

Op woensdag 27 mei 2015 20:26:51 UTC+2 schreef dgt41:

Sergio Manzi

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May 27, 2015, 4:03:32 PM5/27/15
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+1 here too!

I agree on both points, Dimitris.

Well done!
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Walt Sorensen

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May 27, 2015, 7:36:27 PM5/27/15
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Based on the discussions here and reviewing the existing "roadmap" there is some definite work needed on clarifying the "official" roadmap since it was last updated almost a year ago.

Chris Davenport

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May 28, 2015, 12:43:46 PM5/28/15
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The PLT will be reviewing and updating the roadmap at our next summit meeting immediately after JAB.

Chris.

On 28 May 2015 at 00:36, Walt Sorensen <wa...@jtechmedical.com> wrote:
Based on the discussions here and reviewing the existing "roadmap" there is some definite work needed on clarifying the "official" roadmap since it was last updated almost a year ago.

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Walt Sorensen

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Jul 6, 2015, 2:04:13 PM7/6/15
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Thanks Chris,
I'm looking forward to seeing the updated roadmap from the PLT.

Chris Davenport

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Jul 18, 2015, 12:01:34 PM7/18/15
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The roadmap page has now been updated: http://developer.joomla.org/cms/roadmap.html

Chris.

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