Joomla 3.6.0 Alpha is out

[George Wilson]

Hi Guys,

I tagged 3.6.0 Alpha 1 last night after the bug squash session at JAB. The release timetable has been set out https://volunteers.joomla.org/reports/238-production-leadership-team-minutes-1st-may-2016.

You can find it here to download https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/releases/tag/3.6.0-alpha

As ever thanks to all those who go out test and file and bugs found

Kind Regards,

George

[Robert G Mears]

The update from 3.5.1 worked fine for me. There were a couple of database errors which were fixed by the DB component.

Regards,

Robert G Mears

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Fresh install of 3.5.1
Set update channel to 'Testing'
Update was found and installed without any error showing


Uninstalled the Banners Component and the Beez Template
Downloaded the Joomla_3.6.0-alpha-Alpha-Full_Package.zip
Used the Joomla upload component to upload and install Joomla_3.6.0-alpha-Alpha-Full_Package.zip
Result
Files got written
Had to navigate to Extensions >>> Manage >>> Discover to install the Banners Component and Beez Template into the database.  Is that expected ???

[Leo Lammerink]

Clean 3.5.1 installation. No extensions added on the "learn Joomla" sample data. Update went flawless from 3.5.1. Also tested the new update and loaded the update zip and also went fine.(Overwrite the 3.6.0 with the uploader)

However as soon as Memcache is enabled (which works without issues on J3.5.1 on this server) we get

Warning

JLIB_APPLICATION_ERROR_COMPONENT_NOT_LOADING

Memcache=off and no more errors

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[AlexRed]

Hello George,
in Joomla 3.6.0 Alpha 1 I can't install the "Install form Web" plugin,
Error: Unable to find install package

in the https://appscdn.joomla.org/webapps/jedapps/webinstaller.xml
can't find   <targetplatform name="joomla" version="3.6" />

[brian teeman]

That is because the plugin has still not been updated by that team

[ste...@gmail.com]

George

Fresh install of the Alpha I am unable to install anything when I select install form the menu I get this warning

Extensions >> Manage >> Install >>

Warning

No installation plugin has been enabled. At least one must be enabled to be able to use the installer. Go to the Plugin Manager to enable the plugins. 

When I check the plugin manager there are no installer plug ins to enable.

Steve

[Gunjan Patel]

For now it can be fixed by installing them via discover.

[Michael Babker]

Should only need that if the database update routine didn't play through in full.  https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/blob/staging/administrator/components/com_admin/sql/updates/mysql/3.6.0-2016-05-06.sql is the relevant file (for MySQL) that should have been executed.

--

[ste...@gmail.com]

Michael I ran the database fix (though it did not show it was not required.)

Still no installers. I am going to delete and reinstall the alpha to see if it happens again.

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Confirmed ... the 'Install from web' feature Fails.  'Discover' does Not find it

Using the full package with Joomla update Component install does Not replace missing Joomla core extensions.

[Michael Babker]

It shouldn't replace core extensions (as in fully reinstall them like they were never uninstalled).  They're replaced in the filesystem because they're part of the package, but that's it.  Unless I'm mistaken, there wasn't anything changed that would imply you could uninstall more extensions?

And database fix doesn't deal with INSERT queries so if they aren't triggered during the update routine you're hitting another error somewhere along the way (architecturally it's correct fix doesn't insert them too; it's supposed to be a schema validation API, not a data validation API and INSERT queries are data).

--

[Robert G Mears]

On update from 3.5.1 the regular install options (Upload Package File, Install from Folder, Install from URL) are gone.

And the message -- No installation plugin has been enabled. -- won't go away even after the plugin has been enabled. (Cleared all caches, too.)

Tried installing an extension (JCH Optimize). Nothing happens after the Install button is clicked.

Regards,

Robert

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

• Fresh install of 3.4.8
• Install from web feature works
• Uninstall the Install from web feature works
• Install from web feature again works

• Fresh install of 3.4.8
• Update to 3.6.0 alpha via Testing channel
• Install from web feature fails

• Fresh install of 3.4.8
• Install from web feature works
• Update to 3.6.0 alpha via Testing channel
• Uninstall the Install from web feature works
• Install from web feature fails

[Bakual]

The database fix will not install those plugins due to what Michael wrote earlier. It's an INSERT statement and the database fix doesn't run those (it is data stuff, not schema stuff).

It should run during an update though (using the Joomla Updater), just not when you use Git or replace the files manually.

[Bakual]

Install from Web can't be installed because the plugin isn't enabled yet for 3.6.0. That's something the IfW team has to switch.

It can however be installed manually when you download the package and install it like a regular extension.

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

@Bakual

"It can however be installed manually when you download the package and install it like a regular extension."

Tried that No Avail

[Izhar Aazmi]

I tried to install manually and it was installed and working. 

Any reason that the webinstaller is so coupled within the cms and still not a part of it? 

I mean we should either treat it as a separate extension and do not reference it in the core at all OR make it a part of core!

--

[Robert G Mears]

It can however be installed manually when you download the package and install it like a regular extension.

The regular install options are gone.

 

[Izhar Aazmi]

Is it safe to ignore/remove the onInstallerViewBeforeFirstTab, onInstallerAddInstallationTab, onInstallerViewAfterLastTab events at this stage as they aren't yet released for public?

[Michael Babker]

The only new one is the onInstallerAddInstallationTab event; the others have existed since Install from Web launched.  And my question would basically be why; you're suggesting reverting the PR that made the install view's tabs plugins at that point.

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Izhar Aazmi <izhar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it safe to ignore/remove the onInstallerViewBeforeFirstTab, onInstallerAddInstallationTab, onInstallerViewAfterLastTab events at this stage as they aren't yet released for public?

--

[Michael Babker]

https://github.com/joomla-extensions/install-from-web-client for the plugin

The one new event you could remove before 3.6 stable goes out.  The other 2 events have been in the layout since 3.2 so at best you could deprecate the events but they should still trigger and have the same effect if you do any refactoring that might move them.

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Izhar Aazmi <izhar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am trying to propose a different way to achieve that as the current one mixes the logic into layout quite a bit by calling plugins from layout file. In case I am successful in coding what I am thinking and fortunately if that sounds good enough to everyone then we might not need those. And I'm trying my best not to break b/c.

I'd also like to ask that where can I contribute for webinstaller plugin too?

	Izharul Haque Aazmi (Izhar Aazmi)
	Bhartiy Digital Laboratories and Bhartiy Web Technologies, 11 - Kaveri Enclave - II, Near Swarn Jayanti Nagar, Ramghat Road, Aligarh - 202 001 (UP), India
	Visit: www.izharaazmi.com :: Call: (+91) 9045175891 :: Mail: izhar...@gmail.com

[Izhar Aazmi]

I am trying to propose a different way to achieve that as the current one mixes the logic into layout quite a bit by calling plugins from layout file. In case I am successful in coding what I am thinking and fortunately if that sounds good enough to everyone then we might not need those. And I'm trying my best not to break b/c.

I'd also like to ask that where can I contribute for webinstaller plugin too?

On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 6:46:59 PM UTC+5:30, Michael Babker wrote:

The only new one is the onInstallerAddInstallationTab event; the others have existed since Install from Web launched.  And my question would basically be why; you're suggesting reverting the PR that made the install view's tabs plugins at that point.

[Izhar Aazmi]

I have submitted a PR https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/pull/10616 for the installer plugin system. Please test and let me know if I missed something.

[Robert G Mears]

The regular install options are gone.

The regular install options are are still available in the Hawthor template. But if "Install from Web" is on they appear way down at the bottom of the page. 

[Bakual]

Reason is so it can be released independant.

[Bakual]

You just need to discover them. They are plugins now.

This "error" should only happen if you manually copy the files and run the database fix afterwards. If you use one of the official update paths (eg using com_joomlaupdate), then the plugins should all be there installed and enabled.

[Bakual]

I already did PR two weeks ago to address the same issue :)

[AlexRed]

ok, xml is update

<targetplatform name="joomla" version="3.[456789]" />   :)
I can install the "Install form Web" plugin in Joomla 3.6.0 Alpha1

Thanks

[Robert G Mears]

You just need to discover them. They are plugins now.

Okay. Discovering the plugins worked.

I had downloaded the Joomla_3.6.0-alpha-Alpha-Update_Package and installed it using Upload Package File.

Unless this is changed somehow there needs to be a message advising to discover and enable the plugins.

[Bakual]

The "upload the package using the package installer" isn't really supported. It's a hackish workaround and the reason it failed. I think that failed already for the last update. Imho it should be blocked and not possible by now, but not sure if that got reverted.

If you update using the Joomla Update component, it should be fine.

If no plugin is active, there actually should be a message saying that no plugin is active :)

[brian teeman]

Yes it is documented on the download page that you should not update that way as it doesn't work. (Which is one of the reasons for the new updater in 3.6)

[sovainfo]

The download page only talks about updating to J3.5.x, it doesn't mention J3.6. It doesn't say that as of J3.5 you can't use Extensions->Manage->Install for updates of Joomla anymore.

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Testing: is used for testing Joomla releases prior to their release as 'Stable'. With this setting nightly builds will be shown until a Beta or RC (Release Candidate) is available

https://docs.joomla.org/Help35:Components_Joomla_Update#Update_Source

[George Wilson]

You cannot use Extension Manager to Install Joomla Core updates since 3.5.0 and you won't be able to do so again. I've updated the pages in the docs and download page to reflect this

[Izhar Aazmi]

Instead of telling this to everyone, is that even possible that we do some internal logic to pass the core update from extension manager to Joomla updater automatically? Or is there some guidelines that stops us from doing this?

--

[Michael Babker]

It is not possible without adding hacks to the JInstaller library to determine this.  com_installer has absolutely zero awareness of what package is being installed when the user clicks the button, only that a package has been given to be installed.  Architecturally this couples the library to the specific application AND component(s) involved in the process and should not happen.

The fact that the team who built 1.6 designed Joomla as an extension of itself and used the extension install libraries as Joomla's core update system is a failure of that team and that process was always bound to reach a point where it would catastrophically fail.  Ironically it started reaching that point with 3.0 but hacks were continually added to the Joomla core instead of addressing the real issue (such as force importing the legacy JApplication class from the libraries/legacy tree instead of libraries/joomla when updating from 2.5 to 3.(0|1) because the old files weren't removed from the system soon enough or the requirement to check if $this->(app|db) are set in plugins even though the JPlugin constructor sets those class properties).  3.5 addressed the real issue.  From this point it requires re-training users and proper documentation explaining the change and the new process introduced in 3.6, but short of essentially making the JInstaller library aware of com_installer and com_joomlaupdate (or any other component involved in extension/core update management), there is no further technical solution that can be applied.

[brian teeman]

Even if there was some magical way to have a check in the installer to prevent it being used to update joomla it can not be applied retrospectively to every existing joomla site.

[Izhar Aazmi]

I have not yet looked deep into the logic how the Joomla updater exactly works, hence forgive me if I am talking total dumb here. What I speculate that having a installer plugin system that can intercept and even fully take over the installation job to itself.

For a custom unpack the installer (not needed in this case, as it should be unpacked as common zip upload) using event onInstallerBeforeInstallation

For custom installation using already unpacked package using event onInstallerBeforeInstaller. This can be useful if something else does not stop us, and about that something I can say only after observing the Joomla updater.

PS: Do we have a way using the Joomla updater which can be used to upload update/patch file instead?

[Michael Babker]

Without duplicating the logic of the JInstallerAdapter class chain, a plugin isn't all that feasible.  Basically you need access to the extension manifest which means in your plugin you are scanning the file name (which is flawed at best if file naming conventions ever change or someone else uses a similar looking file name), unpacking the entire package into the tmp directory, scanning for the manifest from the package, and determining that you're updating Joomla core, then going through the cleanup process of removing the unpacked files in tmp and issuing a redirect to com_joomlaupdate's update tasks.  Nothing before the call to JInstaller::install() at the component level has manifest access nor is the manifest found before the extension adapters are called.  Basically, you either make it possible to update Joomla core as an extension and stop trying to add intercept/redirect logic or you continue on the path started with 3.5 and block this install method.  The latter one is the only correct option otherwise you can NEVER perform a core update and rely on new code in the update process (i.e. the utf8mb4 update could never happen).

IMO the amount of time people have been spending on solutions to make Joomla updates work the same way as an extension update is flawed and a waste of time.  You CANNOT feasibly update a platform using its own code, it has inherent architectural limitations because the entire update will run with the version you are updating from in memory; you CANNOT use ANY new code from the new version in your update routine.  And without duplicating the JInstaller library or coupling the high level library to the low level components, you CANNOT feasibly introduce logic that magically redirects com_installer to com_joomlaupdate.

3.6 has the added features in the update component which let you upload your own package.

[Robert G Mears]

3.6 has the added features in the update component which let you upload your own package.

Now you have me confused. I have been using the "Upload Package File" function for years. It is pretty much the only way I add extensions. And I have often used it to update Joomla core files; and sometimes third-party extensions. Downloading those packages to my computer helps to keep track of which versions have been used. (Third-party DEVs do not always list the version numbers of their extensions.)

However, I noticed in my updated to 3.6 site that the Protostar template, which I had modified, did not get overwritten. Is this normal behavior?

[Michael Babker]

If they aren't in the ZIP package then that'd be expected, but I haven't inspected the package so I don't know what's there (though as it's a .0 it should include the entire Joomla distro minus the installation directory and sample images).

3.6 adds to the update component a way to upload a Joomla core package to use for updating or reinstalling.  It doesn't change anything with the Extension Manager.

--

[brian teeman]

@RgMears Updating Joomla and Updating/Installing extensions are completely separate things

@Ishar without being able to go back in time and make your changes in all earlier releases of joomla that someone could be updating from your ideas will go nowhere

[Robert G Mears]

@brian teeman

@RgMears Updating Joomla and Updating/Installing extensions are completely separate things

Okay. But I have previously used the "Upload Package File" to install Joomla updates.

@Michael Babker

My mistake. I had copied the Protostar template. Sorry, it was late ...

[Michael Babker]

Until 3.5 the "Upload Package File" way was supported, that's what my earlier rants were groaning about (that way was updating Joomla as a Joomla extension which only worked because people kept adding hacks to core).  3.5 stopped being able to do that because technically it isn't feasible to run certain parts of the upgrade without the 3.5 code.  3.6 adds back the ability to "upload package file" but that mechanism will be in the update component and will only support the Joomla core package.

So use the update component for all aspects of Joomla update management.  Use the Extension Manager for all aspects of extension management.  Do NOT use the Extension Manager for updating Joomla core.

--

[Robert G Mears]

@Michael Babker

Do NOT use the Extension Manager for updating Joomla core.

But I did. And it more or less worked. Won't do it again, though.

[sovainfo]

Strange, all three options complain about missing xml !

[Bakual]

The options in "Extension" -> "Install" should do exactly that. You're not supposed to be able to update Joomla using the extension manager anymore.
Use the Joomla Update component, that is now the only way to update Joomla.

[Robert G Mears]

@Bakual

Use the Joomla Update component, that is now the only way to update Joomla.

 

Then why is the update package available for download? The only way to make use of it is through "Extension" -> "Install".

[Michael Babker]

If you're in an environment that you cannot use the update component (I.e. an intranet with no public access) you can still use it to manually update.  Also as has been said here in 3.6 there will be a way in the update component to upload a package there.

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[sovainfo]

It should be available for download in order to follow method A. Which is using Joomla! Update with the downloaded update.

[Robert G Mears]

... there will be a way in the update component to upload a package there.

So, that's why it's an Alpha release, then?

There has to be a way to articulate this subtle but significant change to people. Otherwise you may have a lot of frustrated Joomla users.

[Michael Babker]

It's been communicated since 3.5.0 was released that the Extension Manager could not be used for updating core Joomla.  That was noted in the release post, an alert box on the download page, and changes in the upgrade guides on the docs wiki.  The marketing material for 3.6 isn't complete but the blog post announcing that 3.6 was coming noted the change in the update component was in part why the next release was re-numbered.  The feature is already in the 3.6 package.

On Friday, May 27, 2016, Robert G Mears <plai...@gninc.ca> wrote:

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[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

As an experiment I used the Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update' on the JCE zip.  The installer run then gave the message "Your site has been successfully updated. Your Joomla version is now 3.6.0-alpha2-dev. "  I could then use the Extensions 'Discover' to install JCE.  This raises a few questions.

As using the Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update'  to upload the Joomla full package doesn't install missing core Components ... just unzips the files so the Extensions 'Discover' can be used to install the missing core extension.

And as using the Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update' to upload a third party extension so the Extensions 'Discover' can be used to install ... but gives a success message for successfully updating Joomla.

1. Other than upload and unzip a zip file ... what does the Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update' actually do ?
2. Should something be done to give a different message when a user tries to use the Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update' to install/update a 3rd party extension ?

[Robert G Mears]

All of what you are saying may have been communicated. I apparently missed it. Like many, I suppose, when there is an update I just install it however I need to. If I have trouble then I read the DOCs.

For some reason, on the site I tested, the link didn't work so I downloaded the package. There is no option to install with Upload Package File in the Joomla update component for 3.5.1. That it has been added in 3.6 is great.

In the meantime what does a person do if they cannot use the update link to go from 3.5.1 to 3.6?

[George Wilson]

Well people could update from 3.4 to 3.5 through extension manager :p so they either aren't on 3.5.1 to start with or should be following the docs we produced during the 3.5 beta stage https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Upgrading_from_Joomla_3.4.x_to_3.5

[George Wilson]

[Bakual]

Can you please open an issue on the tracker for this? This certainly sounds like a bug to me. That method shouldn't process regular extension packages.

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Hi Bakual

Tracker opened https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/issues/10656

btw
Other than unzip a Joomla package what does Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update' actually do ?

[Michael Babker]

It looks like it'll run the full update routine.  After you pass a "captive login" screen (note I'm going by code only; I've not actually seen or tested the interface myself) it triggers the install update routine which will go through all the filesystem updates and the PHP post-update scripts.

[George Wilson]

It's not a bug. We have no way of knowing whether this is a Joomla Update package or not as we no longer ship the XML file (to avoid it being installable by Joomla Extension Manager). This is exactly why we now prompt people for passwords - because it doesn't even need to be a Joomla Extension. Any zip file will run the full update routine...

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[Leo Lammerink]

With all respect but no reply to Webdongle's input and I am based on my own testing as well curious: [quote] Other than unzip a Joomla package what does Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update' actually do ?[end-of-quote] No answer has been given so what does it do?

Leo

[Michael Babker]

Umm, I tried to answer that a half hour ago?

[Robert G Mears]

I got a different response than @Webdongle. The Joomla update Component 'Upload and Update' processes 3rd party extensions

[Leo Lammerink]

Well Michael with all respect I do not get it than..... It is likely my misunderstanding of what your wrote but I still do not get to understand the reasoning.... sorry for that. Can you try to clarify in more "laymen' terms?

Leo

[Michael Babker]

You upload a package and it runs the full update routine.  It's not just "uploading a ZIP and extracting it with no other things happening in the background".

[Izhar Aazmi]

Let me try!

When you install/update an extension you have to rely on only the existing  platform (Joomla codes) which is responsible for processing all the logic that is required to install the extension.

But when we talk about updating Joomla itself, sometimes we cannot only rely on existing Joomla, rather new codes that are due installation may be required too. And the logic really gets complicated, let's not dive deep in there. Hence we developed a brand new component that would dedicatedly handle Joomla core updates only. 

Merging it with existing extension manager would have complicated the things even further so better kept them isolated.

PS: If you want me to explain with completely non-technical words, feel free to ask :)

PPS: As Michael said, installation/update does not only extract the uploaded zip and thats all. Several job runs before and after that too. Those jobs are the real chaos.

[brian teeman]

The code for this is pretty well documented inline so it is easy to follow the steps and procedures involved

[Leo Lammerink]

@Michale: Thank makes sense.   @Izhar.... thanks for the 'explanations'  and rest assured that I am not that kind of a dombo so feel free to explain this in 'technical -laymen- terms' . I am part of JBS for over 4 years now so I do understand a bit ..... Does not mean that I feel comfortable understanding inside/out code......I got people to do that for me......So back to the issue Izhar..... I actually do not understand a thing what you are trying to 'clarify' Sorry for being that 'blond' (I was before getting older)

Leo :)

[Izhar Aazmi]

Sorry If it sounded like any offensive. I no way meant to offend you. It was just a plain humor, like friends do.

Okay, put up your question in words and I'll try my best.

	Izharul Haque Aazmi (Izhar Aazmi)
	Bhartiy Digital Laboratories and Bhartiy Web Technologies, 11 - Kaveri Enclave - II, Near Swarn Jayanti Nagar, Ramghat Road, Aligarh - 202 001 (UP), India
	Visit: www.izharaazmi.com :: Call: (+91) 9045175891 :: Mail: izhar...@gmail.com

[sup...@jlhwebdesigns.com]

> Like many, I suppose, when there is an update I just install it
> however I need to. If I have trouble then I read the DOCs.

 

I tend to do the same -- occasionally wishing that I had first done some reading.

 

I have tried to follow this discussion and have to say that I am very confused. I am not a techie, but I am not new to Joomla either.

 

In previous years, flowcharts were extensively used to convey procedural steps. But, they seem to have disappeared from the software arena (they are still used extensively in the automotive trouble shooting area). I have to wonder if a flowchart of the installation steps and decision branches would be helpful in this case -- like, for example, when you are on a intranet vs. the internet. Apparently, there are completely different steps to use for installations and updates based upon your access, or lack of, to the Internet. What about other decisions that have to be made?

 

Or, in the alternative, provide a clear list of the steps. For example, if you are on the Internet, do this:

 

1) Step1
2) Step2

 

If you are on an intranet, do this:

 

1) Step1
2) Step2

 

Information buried in middle of a paragraph, or a long document, doesn't usually grab my attention.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

[Bakual]

Maybe it's possible to put an identifier into the package that isn't a manifest xml file? I don't think we should upload/extract any zipfiles with this function. There should be some sanitising there.

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Hi George

" We have no way of knowing whether this is a Joomla Update package or not as we no longer ship the XML file"

But 3rd party extensions have an xml file ... can you not identify by that and disallow ?

Also when the Warning message is displayed ... is it not possible to change the

"Your site has been successfully updated. Your Joomla version is now"

to

Your Joomla version is now

???

[ghazal]

Hi,
I have been happily testing the new upgrade system in 3.6 (staging) via Live update and Upload and update.

But I wonder if the methods B and C explained in J3.x:Upgrading from Joomla 3.4.x to 3.5
are still "usable" and advisable ?
ie Upload files via FTP and use Discover

[sovainfo]

Those methods have never been advisable to update Joomla! See many of my posts on the forum. Can't believe that they withdrew the previous document and produced this one! The only manual update procedure is the one from MBABKER called postupdate available on the forum as well.

The only use for Database->Fix now is when the utf8mb4 conversion failed. Remove the update sql files, make sure there is no timelimit on the process and have ->Fix convert again.

[Leo Lammerink]

Why don't you contribute and write a better one instead of just complaining about what has been contributed? Seems quite an easy effort if you have so many (positive) critics?

Leo

On 6/4/2016 11:41 PM, sovainfo wrote:

Those methods have never been advisable to update Joomla! See many of my posts on the forum. Can't believe that they withdrew the previous document and produced this one! The only manual update procedure is the one from MBABKER called postupdate available on the forum as well.

The only use for Database->Fix now is when the utf8mb4 conversion failed. Remove the update sql files, make sure there is no timelimit on the process and have ->Fix convert again.

[sovainfo]

As mentioned, I already made sure the previous document was withdrawn. At that time there was no proper alternative. Despite that people considered it neccessary to produce thsi document. Simply ignoring me, don't worry, getting used to it.

Consider it their responsibility to remove the crap they produced!
Not going to waste my time again!

[Leo Lammerink]

You are part of this community.... we should have no such thing as "they". You are part of 'they' so do something useful instead of complaining? I have asked you that on the forums already multiple times but it seems that complaining favorites contributing? It is quite easy Marcel to help as you should be aware? So contribute instead of complaining right?

Leo

[Michael Babker]

Unless you've got a deep understanding of what is happening at the code level for normal updates, you can't thoroughly document a proper and full manual upgrade path.  The old logic of "extract the package, log in, and run database fix" is only a partial solution and it always has been.  The database fix function also become a magic function and a black box because it does more than validate schema (namely the delete old files portion of the update script).

Database fix has never properly run the full update routine, nor should it.  So steps like refreshing the extension manifests, ensuring new components have asset records for ACL to work correctly, or any SQL statement with record changes versus schema changes in the updates folder are never run.

The script I created (grab it on my forum signature, I'm on mobile and not about to go through the effort to get it right now) mimics every step the normal update routine takes after the package is unzipped.  This prevents the need for having database fix run after your manual update, or manually executing steps that only exist in the PHP update routines.  It is the most complete manual update routine possible.

If someone wants to rework the documentation (it'll need updates anyway for the update component changes in 3.6) to incorporate that script, go for it.

--
- Michael

Please pardon any errors, this message was sent from my iPhone.

[sovainfo]

Seems we have different definitions about contributing and complaining.

Consider my posts on the forum a welcome contribution, consider you telling me what to do complaining!

[Leo Lammerink]

When you complain about the quality of the upgrade/migration documentation you should contribute and do not just complain. I am aware based on history that you are totally reluctant to contribute to a better documentation but if you complain you are being part of this community so you have rights to  complain about contributions of others.....but by doing so you also have the obligation to improve these contributions ans that is what you are not doing regretfully...So start being constructive?

On 6/5/2016 1:07 AM, sovainfo wrote:

Seems we have different definitions about contributing and complaining.

Consider my posts on the forum a welcome contribution, consider you telling me what to do complaining!

[Sergio Manzi]

Bringing the attention to a lack or mistake in the documentation is a contribution, even if the notifying person is not in the condition of fixing the relevant points (e.g. for lack of command of the language or because of technical doubts).

This is exactly the same situation of someone notifying a bug  but not being able to propose a fix for it.

[Leo Lammerink]

Oh Sergio, I am more than thankful for people pointing out mistakes others (including me) make in writing things.... No objections with that but certain persons are extremely well versed technically (and acknowledged as such as Sovainfo is for instance !) but it sucks for me that these people just keep flaming about things and do not take the effort to improve things (documentation as discussed here) for the benefit of this Joomla community. That for sure in thid particular case has nothing to do with language and definitely not with 'technical doubts'

Cheers

[sovainfo]

As always, complaining about someone says more about the person complaining than about the person complained about.

You seem to forget that is not for you to determine how I contribute. You opinion about me is clear, you are entitled to have your own opinion. Obviously, I don't share your opinion!
Suggest to stop the personal attack and start contributing the way you seem to think appropriate.

hopefully that will allow us to return to the topic!

[Sergio Manzi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Method #A of https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Upgrading_from_Joomla_3.4.x_to_3.5 is too complicated for many newbies and is restricted to the update found by the Joomla Update Component.  So if the update breaks part way through and the site reports no updates then Method #A will not work.  As I understand it the new feature in the Joomla Update Component will allow the user to try the update again if that happens.  Various things can cause the update to fail ... so after those have been fixed then the new feature can be used to retry the update.

In any case ... surely when 3.6.0 stable is released https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Upgrading_from_Joomla_3.4.x_to_3.5 will need to be rewritten because Methods #B and #C will no longer be needed ?



On Friday, 27 May 2016 23:36:12 UTC+1, sovainfo wrote:

It should be available for download in order to follow method A. Which is using Joomla! Update with the downloaded update.

[brian teeman]

On Sunday, 5 June 2016 00:38:32 UTC+1, Webdongle Elgnodbew wrote:

In any case ... surely when 3.6.0 stable is released https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Upgrading_from_Joomla_3.4.x_to_3.5 will need to be rewritten because Methods #B and #C will no longer be needed ?

As that article is titled Upgrading from 3.4 to 3.5 it is still accurate

[sovainfo]

On Sunday, 5 June 2016 00:38:32 UTC+1, Webdongle Elgnodbew wrote:

In any case ... surely when 3.6.0 stable is released https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Upgrading_from_Joomla_3.4.x_to_3.5 will need to be rewritten because Methods #B and #C will no longer be needed ?

As that article is titled Upgrading from 3.4 to 3.5 it is still NOT accurate

[ghazal]

@brianteeman
thanks for your reply.
Like many people would, I had not noticed the "3.4" in "Upgrading from Joomla 3.4.x to 3.5".

Maybe it should be more obvious.

As a moderator on a joomla forum, I had to deal with a user who blindly applied this method while upgrading from 3.5.0 to 3.5.1.

NB : I apologize for posting this on a 3.6 discussion.

[brian teeman]

There is a great big red warning box there. I don't know how more obvious it can be made.

[Robert G Mears]

There is a great big red warning box there. I don't know how more obvious it can be made.

This is more obvious:

 

[Michael Babker]

It's accurate in describing part of the tasks required but the manual update isn't 100% complete as we've already pointed out about a billion times.

--

[Michael Babker]

It's a Wiki, feel free to contribute a change.  https://docs.joomla.org/index.php?title=J3.x:Upgrading_from_Joomla_3.4.x_to_3.5&action=edit

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[Robert G Mears]

It's a Wiki, feel free to contribute a change.

Done.
Except I could not figure out how to change the font size (which should be bigger).

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Hi Robert

Done.
Except I could not figure out how to change the font size (which should be bigger).

"Updating to Joomla 3.5 or higher can no longer be done through the extension manager.
You must now update through the Joomla! Update component (or by manual action as indicated below)."

Is (methinks) grammatically incorrect.  The extension manager is not a location that the user goes 'through' it's a process that is used.

[Sergio Manzi]

Suggesting:

"You cannot use the "Extension Manager" for updating Joomla to version 3.5 or higher: you must instead use the "Joomla! Update" component (best option, if possible) or follow the manual procedure described here below."

I think this is more intelligible by persons who are not much proficient in reading English.

--

[ghazal]

Now, I am a bit confused.
Let me state this in the simplest way.
What I assumed :

* I am talking ONLY about the manual update (methods B and C)
* updating with these methods is recommended for an update from 3.4 to 3.5 ONLY.
* when updating from 3.5.x to a more recent version (3.5.0 to 3.5.1, or 3.5.1 to 3.6.), these methods should NOT be applied.

But, if I understand correctly, then :

Updating to Joomla 3.5 or higher can no longer be done through the extension manager.

You must now update through the Joomla! Update component (or by manual action as indicated below).

implies that updating by "manual action" for 3.5 series or higher is still advisable.

So ???????

[Robert G Mears]

Hi Kevin,

The extension manager is not a location that the user goes 'through' it's a process that is used.

 

I think the process is accessed through the link to the component.

Sergio,

The wiki says the text is translated into other languages. I do not know anything about that or how accurate the translations are.

ghazai,

I don't know enough about what is being said to answer your question. I only thought the Warning message was the wrong approach.

Robert
 

[Sergio Manzi]

Robert,

neither I know if the docs are indeed translated to other languages and in case how up-to-date translations are kept...

In aerospace industry (but not only)  "Simplified Technical English" is used for technical documentation: I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if we stick to something like that too, also to make translator's life easier.

Have a look at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_Technical_English
http://www.asd-ste100.org/

Cheers!

Sergio