GSoC 2017: Idea to enhance the Extension Manager

[Anibal]

Hi,

At this time, we are double checking the ideas of the student proposals to enhance the Extension Manager.

We have a close call, and we are gathering general feedback. Please, check this idea, and answer with +1 or -1.

Option to keep extension data on uninstallation

In this way, the extension manager would have an option to keep the data or remove the tables. By default, it would have the current behavior.

PRO: User would have the choice, and extensions could support the detection of previously installed data.

CON: Today, extensions decide what to with the data on uninstallation. Users could opt to keep the data... just in case.

P.S. Remember to answer with +1 or -1

Regards,

Anibal

[brian teeman]

-1 it should be the responsibility of the extension

[Roland Dalmulder]

My main caveat here is that the extension can't know if a user is uninstalling to just install a new version or uninstalling because it no longer wants to use it. If extension developers would always drop the tables, all user generated content would be removed leaving the user possibly confused.

Yes I am aware users don't need to uninstall just to install a new version but yet I see them do it.

[George Wilson]

-1 Extensions should always clean up their data - it's going to cause more problems than it solves

[Roland Dalmulder]

Extensions can't clean up their data because extensions don't know what users are doing :)

[Allon Moritz]

-1 the data management should be up to the extension.

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[Robert]

-1 on this specific, but I would like to see a pre(un)installForm that can be provided by the extension developer and rendered by the extension manager. Within the process the (un)install functions can pick up the form data and act  appropriate. 

Robert

Am Mittwoch, 3. Mai 2017 12:26:50 UTC+2 schrieb Allon Moritz:

-1 the data management should be up to the extension.

On 3 May 2017 11:43 am, "Roland Dalmulder" <rdalm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Extensions can't clean up their data because extensions don't know what users are doing :)

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 11:34:20 AM UTC+2, George Wilson wrote:

-1 Extensions should always clean up their data - it's going to cause more problems than it solves

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 10:32:38 AM UTC+1, Roland Dalmulder wrote:

My main caveat here is that the extension can't know if a user is uninstalling to just install a new version or uninstalling because it no longer wants to use it. If extension developers would always drop the tables, all user generated content would be removed leaving the user possibly confused.

Yes I am aware users don't need to uninstall just to install a new version but yet I see them do it.

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 11:22:21 AM UTC+2, brian teeman wrote:

-1 it should be the responsibility of the extension

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[Roland Dalmulder]

Uhhh, I really like that idea from Robert.

[Yves Hoppe]

+1 

It often happens that users think before installing an update they need to uninstall the extension etc. and than wonder why their data is lost.

I agree with Brian that it's normally the responsibility of the extension. Because of that a lot of extensions have a switch in the configuration for "complete uninstall" or whatever.

So it could be a good thing if there is a general setting for it during uninstallation, so the user is less confused.

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 11:34:20 AM UTC+2, George Wilson wrote:

[Niels Braczek]

Am 03.05.2017 um 11:06 schrieb Anibal:

> *Option to keep extension data on uninstallation*

+1
Everything unifying component behaviour administration-wise is a step in
a good direction.

Regards,
Niels

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[Michael Babker]

-1, this is not an option that belongs in the core system.

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[Hannes Papenberg]

-1. As others have said, this is not something that should be in core.
It will lead to cluttered databases and those extensions not using the
standard Joomla install SQL feature will not switch over to this one.

If you want to keep extension data, provide an easy way for devs to
include a DB im-/export feature to their extension.

Am 03.05.2017 um 11:06 schrieb Anibal:

> Hi,
>
> At this time, we are double checking the ideas of the student proposals
> to enhance the Extension Manager.
>
> We have a close call, and we are gathering general feedback. Please,
> check this idea, and answer with +1 or -1.
>

> *Option to keep extension data on uninstallation*
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H8d2_XxAlkA/WQma1qyqioI/AAAAAAAAB7Q/Z_0q0ORHyq4MNq5-73ivFFo8zlPtM8rdgCLcB/s1600/eem.png>

>
>
> In this way, the extension manager would have an option to keep the
> data or remove the tables. By default, it would have the current behavior.
>
> PRO: User would have the choice, and extensions could support the
> detection of previously installed data.
>
> CON: Today, extensions decide what to with the data on uninstallation.
> Users could opt to keep the data... just in case.
>
> P.S. Remember to answer with +1 or -1
>
>
> Regards,
> Anibal
>
>

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[Walt Sorensen aka photodude]

-1 Extensions should do this. 

+1 all Joomla examples should be updated to correctly show best practices on extension data management. Including examples on providing users the option to keep data on uninstall/upgrade/reinstall. 

[Marc DECHEVRE]

-1

• I don't really see the point. If I uninstall, I want to have a clean database. If I am "just checking whether some extension creates some issues", I simply *disable* it temporarily
  
• also, what will happen if I uninstall version 123 of that extension, that it keeps the database, and that after I reinstall the latest 124 version of that extension, which changes something to the database ? Probably a mess...

[alikon]

-1  of course

extensions developer responsability/task 

[Leo Lammerink]

-1 agree with all who state that this is for the extension developer

[chris....@gmail.com]

+1

In some cases extensions can delete their data (for example if it can easily be re-generated). But in some cases the data is important business or financial information and it would be wrong to delete it without confirmation from the user. 

At the moment some extensions do delete their data, and some don't, so users have no way of knowing whether data will be deleted or not. The checkbox removes this uncertainty and enables all extensions to be consistent

[Llewellyn van der Merwe]

+1 It seems the idea to uninstall and then if the developer has uninstall sql file, to ask the user if we should fully remove all database tables is the best idea. This way the developer has control (to remove) and the user is not getting an unexpected result (if only updating).

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

-1

Not Joomla core

[romacron]

-1
developers backup tables before uninstall.

Am 04.05.2017 um 11:00 schrieb Webdongle Elgnodbew:
> -1
>
> Not Joomla core
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 3 May 2017 10:06:25 UTC+1, Anibal wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> At this time, we are double checking the ideas of the student
> proposals to enhance the Extension Manager.
>
> We have a close call, and we are gathering general feedback. Please,
> check this idea, and answer with +1 or -1.
>

> *Option to keep extension data on uninstallation*
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H8d2_XxAlkA/WQma1qyqioI/AAAAAAAAB7Q/Z_0q0ORHyq4MNq5-73ivFFo8zlPtM8rdgCLcB/s1600/eem.png>

>
>
> In this way, the extension manager would have an option to keep the
> data or remove the tables. By default, it would have the current
> behavior.
>
> PRO: User would have the choice, and extensions could support the
> detection of previously installed data.
>
> CON: Today, extensions decide what to with the data on
> uninstallation. Users could opt to keep the data... just in case.
>
> P.S. Remember to answer with +1 or -1
>
>
> Regards,
> Anibal
>
>

[sup...@jlhwebdesigns.com]

-1
 
1) It seems illogical to have tables in a database that no current application can access.
2) A developer, or user, could choose to retain the tables and then wonder 12-18 months later, "What are these tables that are cluttering up my database? Is it okay to delete (drop) them?".
3) Any needed tables can be exported before uninstalling -- perhaps with both PHPMyAdmin and with Akeeba Backup for redundancy.
4) Uninstalling an Joomla extension is similar to uninstalling a desktop application. One would not uninstall, for example Outlook, and expect the Outlook data to be retained.
5) Updates may change the structure, or format, of the tables -- rendering the saved data obsolete and perhaps useless.
6) Any such function should be a function of the extension -- and not core.

7) The need for any such data retention ought to be rare.

 

I wonder, is there a PHP function that will export a database table? If so, it ought to be easy for the extension developer to provide this funcitonality.

 

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[brian teeman]

Re point 4

If you uninstall ms word does it remove all the docs? Of course not.

[Webdongle Elgnodbew]

Re point 4

If you uninstall ms word does it remove all the docs? Of course not.

No but the docs are created by ms word and not part of its operation ... therefore that is not relevant to the point being made..

[Anibal]

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback about the idea.

The final result is 14 to keep the current practice and 3 in favour of the new feature. So, we are removing the concept from the list of proposed features. 

By the way, Google has already published the list of students that are going to be collaborating with Joomla. Be prepared for more questions! 

For more information: https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/5010351465693184/

Best Regards,

Anibal

[Russ Winter]

-1  

Extension Developers understand the requirements or needs of their components better than the user, developers choice.

BUT...
if it is deemed to be a useful feature by the majority then I'd prefer the default to be remove or leave the choice to the developer/extension and the checkbox option would be to be "Keep" the database tables if checked, overriding the default method

ALTERNATLIVELY...
if there is to be another option discussed to "protect" users from (from themselves) inadvertently removing/deleting important data tables, maybe change the checkbox option to "Save Data Before Removing" and if checked, automagically produce an SQLDump and download to the user upon uninstall.  

--
Regards,
Russ Winter

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