3Di North sails

[Rob Ferguson]

I ended up getting a good quote on a 3di 760 (North sails) %155 for my PHRF racer.  I currently have a furler and would  be leaving it on the headstay while not in use. I also looked into b sails laminate which is a moulded sail out of Italy.  Does any one have any experience with these sails .

Thanks for any info . 

[Ragtime!]

Hi Rob,

I received a new 3Di main today.  I didn't have time to sail but I hoisted it, took some photos and applied the spreader patches.  It's just as light but it's stiffer than the 3DL sails.  I'll post an update after I've sailed with it.

I'm not a fan of black sails so I went with gold - a new choice in North's 3Di "Race" line.  Quite a change from the gray 3DL's I've been racing with!  I think it will grow on me.

[thomas wenk]

Hi Rob,

I am very interested in the performance of your new 3Di north mainsail? I am the owner of J92 Jack Flash #15, we race ORC3 on the Lake of Constance, Germany. Do you race with a Genoa 155% or a Foc? We race with a Foc ca. 20 sqm with no battens and a Mainsail, two full battened with ca. 29 sqm. Since most of races on the Lake of Constance take place  <10 Kn wind speed, our light wind performance is improvable, that means against a X99 we are slower and we cannot keep the wind angle, that is very bad short after the start! What is your experience? I have to add that Jack Flash is equipped with a flatter keel, draft only 1,80m.

 

Thomas Wenk, Jack Flash, GER 7165

Lake of Constance    

 

Von: 'Ragtime!' via J/92 Owners [mailto:j92owners@googlegroups.com]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Dezember 2016 07:01
An: J/92 Owners
Betreff: [j92owners] Re: 3Di North sails

 

Hi Rob,

 

I received a new 3Di main today.  I didn't have time to sail but I hoisted it, took some photos and applied the spreader patches.  It's just as light but it's stiffer than the 3DL sails.  I'll post an update after I've sailed with it.

 

I'm not a fan of black sails so I went with gold - a new choice in North's 3Di "Race" line.  Quite a change from the gray 3DL's I've been racing with!  I think it will grow on me.

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[Rob Ferguson]

Looks great.. I ordered my black 155 3di sail yesterday. Very excited. I will let everyone know how it works out.  I will have it designed to be furled but wondering should I... I am hoping that there is not much gain in having a non furling 155. 

[Colin]

I have 1 season of regatta use only on a 3Di black 155% genoa (not roller furling) 760m.  Overall, very pleased.  It has a great shape and I think will be stable longer.  I worry less about it when I get caught in more breeze than expected and can't shift down to blade as soon as I'd like for tactical reasons.  Will definitely be paying the extra for this construction when time comes for new blade and main.

Cheers,

Colin 

J/92 Poohsticks #8

[thomas wenk]

What was the quote for the Mainsail and Genoa 155%, since I am contemplating to buy also a north 3Di Main and Genoa?

Happy Christmas!!

Thomas Wenk, J92,  Jack Flash #15, GER 7164

Lake of Constance

Germany

 

Von: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92o...@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Colin
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Dezember 2016 17:18
An: J/92 Owners
Betreff: [j92owners] Re: 3Di North sails

 

I have 1 season of regatta use only on a 3Di black 155% genoa (not roller furling) 760m.  Overall, very pleased.  It has a great shape and I think will be stable longer.  I worry less about it when I get caught in more breeze than expected and can't shift down to blade as soon as I'd like for tactical reasons.  Will definitely be paying the extra for this construction when time comes for new blade and main.

--

[Joe Cooper]

Rob Ferg.

What is the fiber from which your new main is made?

Joe Cooper

bushra...@gmail.com

WWW.joecoopersailing.com

FB: Joe Cooper Sailing

On Dec 22, 2016, at 1:00 AM, 'Ragtime!' via J/92 Owners <j92o...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi Rob,

I received a new 3Di main today.  I didn't have time to sail but I hoisted it, took some photos and applied the spreader patches.  It's just as light but it's stiffer than the 3DL sails.  I'll post an update after I've sailed with it.

I'm not a fan of black sails so I went with gold - a new choice in North's 3Di "Race" line.  Quite a change from the gray 3DL's I've been racing with!  I think it will grow on me.

[Ragtime!]

Rob Ferg.

What is the fiber from which your new main is made?

Rob Ferguson ordered the genoa.  I (Bob J) just received the new main.

According to North, 3Di Race is a "Aramid/Dyneema" or "Aramid/UltraPE" hybrid, depending where you look (and aren't all these aramids anyway?)  There's no mylar so delam is supposed to be impossible.  Having handled it now, I believe it.  In weight it's as light as my 3DL mains but is much stiffer, almost to the point of being hard to handle = more difficult to flake solo and the sail cover wouldn't go around it until I squashed the flaked sail down a bunch.

The wind was light and from behind the boat in the slip, but I played with the backstay and could tell it will change shape as well as the old main:

[Joe Cooper]

Rob Ferg:

Thanks mate.

Dyneema is different to Aramids. Dyneema is the European name for Spectra.

It is interesting they use Dyneema/Spectra in this process because Spectra has a pretty low melt point.

Aramids general are pretty resistant to heat. I’d be interested to see what the sail looks like when you go sailing with it.

Thanks

C

Joe Cooper

bushra...@gmail.com

WWW.joecoopersailing.com

FB: Joe Cooper Sailing

[Ragtime!]

What was the quote for the Mainsail and Genoa 155%, since I am contemplating to buy also a north 3Di Main and Genoa?

Happy Christmas!!

Thomas Wenk, J92,  Jack Flash #15, GER 7164

Lake of Constance

Germany

Thomas, I race mostly singlehanded on San Francisco Bay.  This is not recommended :)

Our Midwinters (currently underway) are usually in light air and I race with a 145% LP #2 genoa.  During the season I'm often reefed and racing with a #3 jib (100% LP) upwind, but in medium conditions I often use the #2 with a reefed main.  This can pay big because the races are point-to-point and/or have lots of reaching.  The #2 has a bit higher clew than normal and when the #2 is sheeted to the rail and forward, the boat is very fast and stable.

As to the quote, I think North's pricing is regional and seasonal so it probably wouldn't be relevant.  I did get a significant seasonal discount by ordering in early November.

Bob Johnston

[Joe Cooper]

Lost the thread apparently.

Better than losing the plot I guess…

Commodore? Is THAT why my ears were burning…:)

C

Joe Cooper

bushra...@gmail.com

WWW.joecoopersailing.com

FB: Joe Cooper Sailing

On Dec 22, 2016, at 1:46 PM, 'Ragtime!' via J/92 Owners <j92o...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Rob Ferg is a good guy (I've talked and e-mailed with him, and I sold him a sail recently) - but I'm not him.

Rob Ferg:

Thanks mate.

I saw Commodore on my dock last weekend and we talked about you.  Were your ears "burning"?

Bob J.

[Rob Ferguson]

If you want to know how much I am spending on my spin and 155 email me and I will send them over email to you.  

. 

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 10:58:02 PM UTC-5, Rob Ferguson wrote:

[Todd Olsen]

Very nice looking sail!  I will be showing this to my family as an example of what some of the other kids are getting for christmas.

Todd

[Rob Ferguson]

Just wanted to double check a 155% should be an okay size for the boat right...Thinking about it now.... my existing %155 gets (Which has an awful cut) gets a a weird curl around the top spreader.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 10:58:02 PM UTC-5, Rob Ferguson wrote:

[Colin]

Hey Rob (and everyone),

Here are the pics from a tuning session we had last summer with our 155.  We have been very happy with it.

There are a lot of unedited pics but hopefully something is useful for you.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzX6g1fOFG8DckpOMC1uMFM5WVE?usp=sharing

Colin

[Joe Cooper]

From a very quick look I have two remarks:

The best way to study sails in pictures is the images taken from the Foot, looking up the sail to the hard. This is the only way to analyze the sails shape.

the sail looks, to my eye, as though it could be sheeted further aft.

In all the pictures the top of the leech is too tight, again to my eye. That the mainsail looks back winded frequently lends a little support to this obs.

I do notice that the sail appears to be sheeted at the very aft end of the track which would of course eliminate any option to sheet further aft….

Cheers

C

Joe Cooper

bushra...@gmail.com

WWW.joecoopersailing.com

FB: Joe Cooper Sailing

[Bruce Santerre]

Rob,

 

155% sail works well on our J92. 

 

When you describe your current sail, you state that it has a "weird curl" at the top spreader.  I assume that the curl is inward.  How old and type of fabric is your old sail?

 

I have an older UK carbon Tapedrive, and the leech of the sail cups or curls inward.  It's my understanding that this is due to the shrinking of the mylar fabric over time .  I've also observed this on an older North 3DL  #1 that I have as a practice sail.  The cupping or curling causes disturbed air flow off the leech of the sail.  This loads up the leech and can increase the heeling moment.  It will also direct the flow into the back of the mainsail causing backwinding.  In Bob's picture of his new mainsail, you can see a nice straight exit at the leech. In a perfect world, the leech of the #1 should mirror the leech of the mainsail in regards to twist and exit profile.

 

Bruce

--

[Colin]

Yup.  This was primarily a rig tuning session.  We have a set of the sail ones too but these were what I had on the google drive.  We are OK with the extent to which we can twist off the sail, though another inch or so on the track would have been nice.

Colin

[Ragtime!]

Twist on your 155 looks pretty good to me and except in the puffs when you eased the mainsheet, the slot looks okay.  I assume when you're racing you work the main a lot more (and everybody hikes) to keep from going sideways.

Without crew I've had to get used to an ugly main.  Except when it's light, I'm always somewhere between a big speed bubble and sailing on the battens.  I reef at 12-14 knots if it's a long upwind leg.  Looking at your 3DL main (and being reminded of mine), I think the 3Di material will help because it's stiffer - I'm sure it will last longer.

I probably shouldn't have posted those airfoil shots - the wind was actually coming from aft.  I'll try to get more in a couple weeks (next Midwinter race).

[Colin Mann]

Absolutely!  This was a challenging day for tuning as it was actually blowing about 20+ knots 'outside', so we tucked into shore and had 4-20 puffy conditions.  We were doing rig tuning mostly and didn't have a full crew.  Normally we race with 7 or 8 and it's rail for everyone except helm and main trim unless something happening.  Generally if the traveller or sheet haven't moved in 5 seconds then we are snoozing.

Our switch down point to blade was around 12-13.  With the 3Di we were able to carry it a bit higher without feeling that we were stressing it and were able to twist it off enough when we had full crew to stay on our feet.

Colin

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[Ragtime!]

I just realized we never answered Rob's genoa questions (is the furler okay and what LP to order).  These questions have been discussed several times in previous threads but a couple thoughts:

1)  The furler for me is a big benefit - I race shorthanded and try to minimize trips forward.  However the furler adds weight aloft and requires a slightly shorter headsail luff, so you have a bit less sail area and arguably give up some end-plate effect at the deck.  However your boat has a shoal keel so you won't have optimum upwind performance anyway.  If you have a furler now I would keep it.  With smoother handling at the corners plus not having the weight of someone on the foredeck, you will more than make up for the extra weight of the furler (IMO).

Remember that the "Racing Pyramid" has boat handling as it's large bottom base (with boat speed and tactics built on that base).  If you develop solid boat handling (the furler helps with this in my view), you will win more races than the boats with slightly cooler sails.  (And I'm speaking to myself here as much as to you!)

2)  I raced with a 155% LP genoa for awhile and now use a 145% a lot - you see it in many of the photos I've posted.  I think the 155 was a tick faster overall.  The 145's leech clears (trims in front of) the top spreader so I thought the boat would point a bit higher, but this hasn't been the case.  I assume the extra leech area of the 155 bends the wind a bit more through the slot, so the slightly wider sheeting angle doesn't matter?  (Coop?)  On the other hand, the 145 goes around the rig more smoothly on tacks.  With a bit less area, you can carry the 145 in a little more breeze (or with lighter crew).  If you are racing in mostly light air and with crew (so changing headsails is quicker), I'd go with the 155.

(Quick add:  You mentioned the leech hook/curl in your current sail.  They all do this over time - the leech wears out first from constant scraping over the shrouds on tacks.  Having crew help the sail around will slow the wear.  I suppose this argues for the 145 a bit as well.)

Thoughts from other skippers?

[thomas wenk]

Gorgeous pictures, very helpful for fast upwind trim. Do you use spinnaker or kite?

 

Best regards

Thomas Wenk, Jack Flash, GER 7164, Lake of Constance, Germany

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[Colin Mann]

Hi Thomas,

Merry Christmas to all.  We have 3 A-sails .... North A2, A3 and a lightweight 1.5A beefed up in the corners a bit.

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 4:12 AM, thomas wenk <thoma...@remax.de> wrote:

Gorgeous pictures, very helpful for fast upwind trim. Do you use spinnaker or kite?

 

Best regards

Thomas Wenk, Jack Flash, GER 7164, Lake of Constance, Germany

 

Von: j92o...@googlegroups.com [mailto:j92owners@googlegroups.com] Im Auftrag von Colin
Gesendet: Samstag, 24. Dezember 2016 16:23
An: J/92 Owners
Betreff: [j92owners] Re: 3Di North sails

 

Hey Rob (and everyone),

 

Here are the pics from a tuning session we had last summer with our 155.  We have been very happy with it.

 

There are a lot of unedited pics but hopefully something is useful for you.

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzX6g1fOFG8DckpOMC1uMFM5WVE?usp=sharing

 

Colin

 

On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:45:06 AM UTC-4, Rob Ferguson wrote:

Just wanted to double check a 155% should be an okay size for the boat right...Thinking about it now.... my existing %155 gets (Which has an awful cut) gets a a weird curl around the top spreader.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 10:58:02 PM UTC-5, Rob Ferguson wrote:

I ended up getting a good quote on a 3di 760 (North sails) %155 for my PHRF racer.  I currently have a furler and would  be leaving it on the headstay while not in use. I also looked into b sails laminate which is a moulded sail out of Italy.  Does any one have any experience with these sails .

Thanks for any info . 

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