Centranthera indica confirmation requested

[Ashutosh Sharma]

Respected members
Please confirm this herb , looks close to Centranthera indica but colour looks different.
At Hamirpur, HP
Altitude - 750 metres
Dated - 17/9/2017

Regards
Ashutosh Sharma

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[J.M. Garg]

Nice images. 

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[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Thanks Garg ji

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Confirmation still pending.

[Nidhan Singh]

This is not Centrathera indica ..

I think not any other Centrathera even...

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 8:43 AM, ashutoshsharma11sn <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Confirmation still pending.

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Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh

Assistant Professor
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Thanks Nidhan Singh sir ,
To me it also look different from C.indica but Saroj Kumar sir had identified it as Centranthera indica on some group, any idea of closely related Genus sir?

[J.M. Garg]

Can it be from https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae? 

On 13-Dec-2017 6:20 PM, "ashutoshsharma11sn" <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Nidhan Singh sir ,
To me it also look different from C.indica but Saroj Kumar sir had identified it as Centranthera indica on some group, any idea of closely related Genus sir?

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Garg sir i just checked ,it don't matches with any Scrophulariaceae member

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashutosh ji. 

On 13-Dec-2017 8:10 PM, "ashutoshsharma11sn" <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Garg sir i just checked ,it don't matches with any Scrophulariaceae member

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for id pl. as not matching with the stated species. 

Acanthaceae? 

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[Saroj Kasaju]

https://www.google.com.np/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiS5qOtwpbYAhVCMI8KHVfRDw8QFghMMAs&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.instituteofayurveda.org%2Fplants%2Fplants_detail.php%3Fi%3D1233%26s%3DFamily_name&usg=AOvVaw0TlLL7zr2UKrUn1P7T8U-h

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Ashutosh ji, 

Any further lead in the matter? 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Ashutosh Sharma" <ashutoshs...@gmail.com>
Date: 02-Dec-2017 7:55 PM
Subject: [efloraofindia:282880] Centranthera indica confirmation requested

--

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Garg ji ,
I am still not sure though in the link provided by Saroj ji images matches with plant .
I think Nidhan Singh sir may confirm.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashutosh ji. 

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[J.M. Garg]

This is Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea as per

http://flowers.la.coocan.jp/Orobanchaceae/Centranthera%20cochinchinensis.htm

http://photozou.jp/photo/show/1962314/228129139

http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=3467&flora_id=2

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200020635

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com>
Date: 2 December 2017 at 19:53
Subject: [efloraofindia:282880] Centranthera indica confirmation requested
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[ashutoshsharma11sn]

Thanks Garg sir looks close.
I will try to find it and check it again by next month .

Regards
Ashutosh Sharma

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashutosh ji.

That will be nice. Yellowishness of the flowers will also have to be checked. 

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[J.M. Garg]

Any news, Ashutosh ji ?

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[Ashutosh Sharma]

Garg ji sorry for late response 

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018, 9:52 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any news, Ashutosh ji ?

On 21 August 2018 at 19:53, ashutoshsharma11sn <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Garg sir looks close.
I will try to find it and check it again by next month .

Regards
Ashutosh Sharma

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[Ashutosh Sharma]

This is Centranthera cochinchinensis var.nepalensis rare white yellowish form (Synonyms - C.nepalensis) , it is not Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea because of its bracts longer than the calyces moreover in this case the corolla is also not longer than 15mm which will be upto 20mm in Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea .

Thus this one is rarer white yellowish form of Centranthera cochinchinensis var. nepalensis as generally flower colour is pinkish(corolla) with darker purplish tube.

Here are some images regarding differences between Centranthera species and a link 

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200020637

Best regards

Ashutosh Sharma

[Ushadi Micromini]

Ashutosh

great pics, these  last ones

exactly how a small flower parts that are relevant need to be depicted

2: did you go back to the same site and find this anew?

3: the link and your three screenshot dont match

the 3 screenshots are from some book or online flora of western himalayas

so do you have a link?

or a citation of the book you scanned it from?

thanks again for being thorough. i like it.

now if only we would all be thorough to start with, my eternal hope.

4: never rely on any herbal selling site, as in Saorj's link

 this one is a resort....how diligent are they in selecting pictures?

god only knows.

====

usha di

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 2:25 AM, Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is Centranthera cochinchinensis var.nepalensis rare white yellowish form (Synonyms - C.nepalensis) , it is not Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea because of its bracts longer than the calyces moreover in this case the corolla is also not longer than 15mm which will be upto 20mm in Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea .

Thus this one is rarer white yellowish form of Centranthera cochinchinensis var. nepalensis as generally flower colour is pinkish(corolla) with darker purplish tube.

Here are some images regarding differences between Centranthera species and a link 

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200020637

Best regards

Ashutosh Sharma

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:13 AM Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Garg ji sorry for late response 

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018, 9:52 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any news, Ashutosh ji ?

On 21 August 2018 at 19:53, ashutoshsharma11sn <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Garg sir looks close.
I will try to find it and check it again by next month .

Regards
Ashutosh Sharma

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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Usha di
===========

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashutosh ji, for the wonderful analysis.

May I know the books respectively from where these snapshots have being taken.

On 17 September 2018 at 02:25, Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is Centranthera cochinchinensis var.nepalensis rare white yellowish form (Synonyms - C.nepalensis) , it is not Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea because of its bracts longer than the calyces moreover in this case the corolla is also not longer than 15mm which will be upto 20mm in Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea .

Thus this one is rarer white yellowish form of Centranthera cochinchinensis var. nepalensis as generally flower colour is pinkish(corolla) with darker purplish tube.

Here are some images regarding differences between Centranthera species and a link 

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200020637

Best regards

Ashutosh Sharma

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:13 AM Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Garg ji sorry for late response 

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018, 9:52 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any news, Ashutosh ji ?

On 21 August 2018 at 19:53, ashutoshsharma11sn <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Garg sir looks close.
I will try to find it and check it again by next month .

Regards
Ashutosh Sharma

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[Ashutosh Sharma]

Thanks Ushadi for suggestions yes the plants are recently photographed from same locations as of previous year and are same to earlier one.

Thanks Garg ji here are the links -

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2481130?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=Centranthera&searchText=indica&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3DCentranthera%2Bindica&refreqid=search%3A1d99babeb2023ff8a50486d3cd6b2018&seq=2&loggedin=true#metadata_info_tab_contents

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=akXKOaT69SwC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=centranthera+nepalensis&source=bl&ots=tpsN_PsAF7&sig=UKR7HGKl6vWV7ls7G-07Hyt-HGY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDl4ClpsHdAhUUVH0KHSEHC8A4ChDoATAAegQIARAB#v=onepage&q=centranthera%20nepalensis&f=false

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=q7s4DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA354&lpg=PA354&dq=centranthera+nepalensis&source=bl&ots=X4-7bkjcHk&sig=Wcck-8Basqc4sM5U1Cg_X4OeKdc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDl4ClpsHdAhUUVH0KHSEHC8A4ChDoATACegQIBxAB#v=onepage&q=centranthera%20nepalensis&f=false

Two more images attached showing corolla length about 15 mm and other showing plant size as small as upto 6cms.

Best regards

Ashutosh Sharma

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 10:39 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Ashutosh ji, for the wonderful analysis.

May I know the books respectively from where these snapshots have being taken.

On 17 September 2018 at 02:25, Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is Centranthera cochinchinensis var.nepalensis rare white yellowish form (Synonyms - C.nepalensis) , it is not Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea because of its bracts longer than the calyces moreover in this case the corolla is also not longer than 15mm which will be upto 20mm in Centranthera cochinchinensis var. lutea .

Thus this one is rarer white yellowish form of Centranthera cochinchinensis var. nepalensis as generally flower colour is pinkish(corolla) with darker purplish tube.

Here are some images regarding differences between Centranthera species and a link 

http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200020637

Best regards

Ashutosh Sharma

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:13 AM Ashutosh Sharma <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Garg ji sorry for late response 

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018, 9:52 AM J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any news, Ashutosh ji ?

On 21 August 2018 at 19:53, ashutoshsharma11sn <ashutoshs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Garg sir looks close.
I will try to find it and check it again by next month .

Regards
Ashutosh Sharma

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Ashutosh ji.

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[Ushadi Micromini]

Thank you Ashutosh for cooperation

i am on my out of the house

will look at the links soon this week

usha di

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Usha di
===========

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Ashutosh ji,

May I request you to go through the posts in Centranthera indica (having posts from south India, where only C. indica is reported and from Himalayas where only Centranthera cochinchinensis var. nepalensis is reported)- do you find any difference between the two ?  

[Ashutosh Sharma]

Good Evening Garg ji ,

I have gone through most of the posts of Centranthera indica page.

Both C.indica as well as C. cochinchinensis var. nepalensis are mentioned as two different species on plant list as well as gbif. Also in IUCN page on Centranthera indica there's no any mention of C.cochinchinensis var. nepalensis as its synonym.

After detailed study the only main difference that I found between two is the length of Corolla which is much longer in C.indica(2-2.5cms long) than C.cochinchinensis var. nepalensis (1.5cms long) .

Also the matured plants of C.cochinchinensis var.nepalensis can remain as small as to 5cms whereas the plants are larger(more than 10cms) in C.indica.

However from the images as well as colour of flower present on site we can't conclude it untill we will have measurements of Corolla ,as far as my specimens are concerned both including this rarer white colour form and the other pink colour form have corolla not more than 15mm long ,but personally till now I have no any encounter with the South Indian Centranthera indica.

Moreover C.indica is much widespread species reported from South India to Australia while C.cochinchinensis var. nepalensis only occurs near the Himalayas.

I am sharing again this link where difference between Centranthera species are listed.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2481130?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=Centranthera&searchText=indica&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3DCentranthera%2Bindica&refreqid=search%3A1d99babeb2023ff8a50486d3cd6b2018&seq=2&loggedin=true#metadata_info_tab_contents

Best regards

Ashutosh Sharma

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Ashutosh ji, for taking your time and doing this important analysis.

Thanks once again. 

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Ashutosh ji,

Did you check my post too? And your opinion please.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Ashutosh Sharma]

Saroj Kasaju ji

I have seen your post of Centranthera from Nepal and that plant is matching with my another post on Centranthera cochinchinensis var. nepalensis having rose coloured corolla and darker purplish corolla tube. 

That one should be C.cochinchinensis var. nepalensis.

However I will recomend you to please take measurement of Corolla if possible ,it should be about 15mm long.

Regards

Ashutosh Sharma

[Saroj Kasaju]

Ok Next season.

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju