Fwd: Phlogacanthus of NE India

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for any assistance in the matter please.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>
Date: 6 July 2016 at 17:07
Subject: Phlogacanthus of NE India
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: Flowers of India <flowers...@gmail.com>

Dear Garg ji,

  Thanks for reminding about this issue once again. I have been looking at it, and the issue appears to be complex to me.

Firstly, I agree that Polunin & Stainton wrongly identified (probably) Phlogacanthus thyrsiflorus, as P. pubinervius.

Secondly, there seem to be two different plants in Manipur, locally considered to be different. I am atatching pictures of them as Phlogacanthus-A and Phlogacanthus-B.

These two look different to me because
1. the inside of the  flower in Phlogacanthus-B appears to be much more hairy, compared to Phlogacanthus-A.

2. The flower shapes look different to me, although can't be too sure about that

3. See where the sepals are in the fully open flowers. Look at the bottom flowers in Phlogacanthus-B-2 for example, in comparison to Phlogcanthus-A-1 and A-3.

Description of P. thyrsiflorus in Flora of Brit. India says that bracts are about as long as sepals, not longer. In the description of P. thyrsiformis in some papers, the bracts are mentioned to be much longer than sepals. Makes me wonder if these two are different plants. To me, my Phlogacanthus-A appears to agree with the herbarium image of Phlogacanthus thyrsiflorus at Kew:
http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000950020

but not my Phlogacanthus-B.

To compound the confusion, some papers seems to consider  P. thyrsiformis and P. thyrsiflorus as two different plant. I attach one such paper, where P. thyrsiformis is described as the plant with brick-red flowers, which agrees with my Phlogacanthus-B.

  I will be happy to have this issue resolved. This discussion which already happened at efloraofindia doesn't throw any light on this.

   Cheers!

   Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 12:10 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, Tabish ji,

Correct name of Phlogacanthus thyrsiflorus at FOI should be Phlogacanthus thyrsiformis. Pl. see detailed discussions at Phlogacanthus thyrsiformis
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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

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--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Tabish ji.

I have a few points to say in this regard:

1. Pictures like A & B has been posted from Uttarakhand & Himachal from where only Phlogacanthus thyrsiformis (all threads herein) has been reported.

2. You can see the list of species found in India as per latest literature at Phlogacanthus. Only P. thyrsiformis (Roxb. ex Hardw.) Mabb. (

Karthikeyan et al. (2009)) is found. Phlogacanthus thyrsiflorus should thus be a syn.

May be experts like Barnali ji (who is working on Phlogacanthus), Rawat ji, Pankaj ji & Anil ji can give more inputs in the matter.

[Tabish]

Garg ji,

  I may agree that P. thyrsiformis and P. thyrsiflorus might be the same species, although clear mention of that I could not find,
The main problem is that the plant A and B are treated differently by people in Manipur. A (orange one) is supposed to have medicinal qualities, and is very regularly used in home remedies, B (the red one) is not used for this purpose. This all indicates that they might be different species. Opinion of experts on this genus might help.

  Tabish

  

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

[Tabish]

Here is response from JRI Wood who works on Acanthaceae, including Strobilanthes, and has published on Phlogacanthus too:
--------------------
Dear Tabish
Thanks for your enquiry.
Phlogacanthus thyrsiflorus and P. thyrsiformis are the same species. The correct name is Phlogacanthus thyrsiformis.
I think Phlogacanthus A (the orange-flowered one) is P. thysiformis and Phlogacanthus B is P. vitellinus (P. asperulus in Flora of British India). It is difficult to be completely sure but I will have a look at the specimens when I am at Kew on Friday next week. You are right about the distinctive character of P. pubinervius. I will see if I can find a Polunin specimen to check this too.
Best regards
John
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  Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Tabish ji.

This is a very good feedback.

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Tabish ji.

Did you get any more feedback in the matter pl. ?

[Tabish]

John Wood sort of gave up on this. Here is his last response:
------------------
 .... Phlogacanthus (and Acanthaceae) are not very easy to identify without specimens (not so easy with specimens!). Here I have access only to old 19th century specimens and it is not easy to match up photos with specimens. I can do north and north eastern Indian Strobilanthes fairly well from photos but other genera can be difficult!

I will get back to you if I have further thoughts.

Regards

John
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  Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Tabish ji

[Tabish]

These two Phlogacanthus species from Manipur had confused me for a long time. Even Dr. John Wood had not been able to help in this matter. Now in the light of the following paper (by M. Sawmliana et al.):

  https://mapress.com/pt/article/view/phytotaxa.573.2.8

the Phlogacanthus-A attached by me is Phlogacanthus jenkinsii.  The Phlogacanthus-B attached by me (the one with reddish flowers) is the real Phlogacanthus thyrsiformis. This has been confirmed by one of the authors of this paper, Dr. Sudhansu Sekhar Dash.

   Cheers!

   Tabish

[Tabish]

My recent post is regarding these two plants. The images are not visible in that post.

   Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Tabish ji

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With regards,
J. M. Garg