ANMAY03/04 Aponogeton crispus Thunb.

[Anurag Sharma]

Family: Aponogetonaceae
Date: 29th April 2015
Place: Tumkur-Hassan district, Karnataka
Habit: Herb
Habitat: Aquatic/Pond

[Tapas Chakrabarty]

I have seen it in West Bengal under cultivation as an ornamental.

Regards,

TC.

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[J.M. Garg]

I think it's Aponogeton natans

Pl. see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aponogeton_crispus

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=87

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J.M.Garg

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[Tapas Chakrabarty]

Thank you, Gargji.

Regards,

TC.

[Anurag Sharma]

How are the two species differentiated?

The fruits of the plant I found led me to Aponogeton echinatus whose current name is Aponogeton crispus. Please take a look at the last photo with the fruits, sir.

Also, Flora of Hassan district reports one species- Aponogeton echinatus.

--

Anurag N. Sharma

BSc. (CBZ) 2nd Year

St. Josephs College

Bangalore

[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Anurag ji,

See the leaves in the links provided by me, you will know the difference.

I don't know about the seeds. 

[surajitkoley]

Perhaps Roxburgh would know (his) species better than any other sources. Attached here entries from FBI, FI, BP, BoBO.

Two kew heb -

1. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000950197
   
2. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000950202
   

Thank you

Regards

[Gurcharan Singh]

While doing ecology practicals nearly 48 years back in Kashmir, and luckily I still remember, we had a few clear cut species of Potamogeton: P. pectinatus with finely dissected leaves, P. lucens with semitransparent leaves, P. natans with thick flat shining floating leaves and P. crispus with wavy (crisped) leaves. We did not know about Aponogeton as it is a basically an ornamental plant of warmer climates, mostly used in aquarium. Yet it has two similar species (which differ besides technical characters, by the absence of above mud stems clearly seen in Potamogeton). with similar names Aponogeton natans (with broad flat leaves) and A. crispus Thunb (syn: A. echinatus Roxb.). To me both Potamogeton crispus and Aponogeton crispus are out of contension. Whereas presence or absence of above mud stems is important for diagnosis, but the colour of inflorescence easily places it as Aponogeton natans. I hope I am not wrong.    

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

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[Ushadi Micromini]

Great and appropriate long term memory

another advantage of joining this group Gurcharnji

no sleep for you !!!

and memory boost !!!

I love it when you teach us thru a story like lesson

thanks

Usha di

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Usha di
===========

[surajit koley]

Thanks Sir for taking care. Anurag Ji's point is that fruits here are echinate, so it should be A. echinatum Roxb. Now, if the current accepted name of A. echinatum Roxb. is A. natans then it is the same.

The problem is old lit consider all three different taxa.

Another problem is nowhere I could find that A. natans can have echinate fruit/capsule.

Here is a paper from Pakistan http://www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/40(1)/PJB40(1)001.pdf

And here is the protologue - http://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/16802027#page/16/mode/1up

On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Gurcharan Singh <sing...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Gurcharan Singh]

Surajit ji

Current accpted name of A. echinatum Roxb. is A. crispus and not A. natans. Please note that Engler's revision puts it under unconfirmed/dubius species. Even FBI mentions mix up in Roxburgh's plates.

 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[surajit koley]

So where do we stand Sir?

Roxburgh's A. echinatus(m) is dubius/uncofirmed, meaning Roxburgh may not be correct at all! Thereby Wight and Prain are also wrong!

TPL thinks A. echinatus Roxb. is synonymous with, that too with three stars, with A. crispus Thunb.

You, based on inflorescence colour and Garg Sir, based on leaf, think the species submitted by Anurag Ji is A. natans (L.) Engl. & K. Krause.

So be it..... thank you very much.

Regards

surajit

[surajit koley]

Dear Anurag Ji,

I can clearly see the fruits of this species, those fruits can't be called smooth and Roxburgh was correct. I said Roxburgh would know his species better than any other source.

I copy here a few words from "Revision of the Genus Aponogeton / H. W. E. VAN BRUGGEN" :-

• ovules 4-8; tepals white, pink, or violet ... fruit with very long (1mm) terminal beak = natans
• ovules 2 (seldom1); ................... fruit smooth = crispus
• do ...............................     fruit mostly with irregular excrescences, seldom smooth.... = echinatus

The differences between the 2nd and 3rd above lie in tuber, leaf, inflorescence, tepal, filament, fruit and plumule.

So, you can boldly go ahead with the ID A. echinatus Roxb. with your species, no matter eFI admit or not.

Thank you

Regards

surajit koley

[Gurcharan Singh]

Perhaps this should help in reaching conclusion keeping in mind conclusions by me and Garg ji.

http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000950197.

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/

[surajit koley]

Unfortunately the page is not visible now, Sir, not only that page I have also seen the edit page (of the link you have provided) at http://plants.jstor.org/stable/history/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000950202

Both the pages carried names of authors updated the related herbarium, and the top most author was Bruggen.

Thank you

Regards

[surajit koley]

Here it is again Sir

thank you

Regards

]