Impatiens spp. ABJUN01/11

[Ashwini Bhatia]

This pink balsam is slightly smaller than the I. scabrida. I found a few plants on my Sunday walk. I am not sure if this is I. bicolor. Please advise.

Above Mcleodganj, Dharamshala, HP

1900m

26 June 2016

Thanks.

Ashwini

[J.M. Garg]

This is a very confusing & big genus. Pl. check with comparative images at Impatiens

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[Ashwini Bhatia]

Thank you Mr Garg. The closest match seems to be the I. devendrae. Hopefully an expert will comment.

Regards,

Ashwini

On 30 Jun 2016, at 11:10, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is a very confusing & big genus. Pl. check with comparative images at Impatiens

On 29 June 2016 at 21:41, Ashwini Bhatia <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com> wrote:

This pink balsam is slightly smaller than the I. scabrida. I found a few plants on my Sunday walk. I am not sure if this is I. bicolor. Please advise.

Above Mcleodganj, Dharamshala, HP

1900m

26 June 2016

Thanks.

Ashwini

<_MG_7840_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_7989_26June2016.jpg><_MG_7998_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_8004_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_7844_26June2016.jpg>

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashwini ji, for the Id.

I think it matches well with images at Impatiens devendrae

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[Tabish]

This should be Impatiens balfourii
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_balfourii
  http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071527

  Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Tabish ji.

To me Impatiens balfourii looks different at your given link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_balfourii

Also see Impatiens balfourii at

https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/b/balsaminaceae/impatiens/impatiens-balfourii-1?pli=1

http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Plant&where-taxon=Impatiens+balfourii

These are all different from posted plant.

[Tabish]

Garg ji,

 Request you to look at the side view of the flower, particularly the spur and the sepal before it, to compare with I. devendrae and I. balfourii.

   Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

[Ashwini Bhatia]

Dear Tabish ji and Mr Garg,

After a careful look, I am of the opinion that my sample is neither. I. balfourii has lower petals larger (more spread) than the dorsal ones (front view) unlike my sample and looking from the front I. devendrae fits the bill more. The spur is more like the balfourii. Unless there is great variation within the species, it is difficult to choose between these two.

I found an old picture from 31 August, 2014 showing the front view and is likely to be of the same species as my current sample.

Many thanks and regards,

Ashwini

<_MG_7840_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_7989_26June2016.jpg><_MG_7998_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_8004_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_7844_26June2016.jpg>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[Tabish]

This is Impatiens confusa! Just joking! This indeed is a confusing plant.

Thank you Ashwini ji for your views.  Your latest picture, if it is of the same species, adds to the confusion. I am inclined to believe that the latest picture belongs to a different species. However, these are my speculations, not to be taken too seriously. I would be happy if somebody can shed more light on it.

   Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

[ash...@ashwinibhatia.com]

Thank you Tabish Ji. I can add this to the list of difficult genera along with the Viola and Cynoglossum. I am hopeful though that one day we will resolve this confusion.

Thank you once again for your help.

Ashwini

On 08-Jul-2016, at 10:27 AM, Tabish <tab...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is Impatiens confusa! Just joking! This indeed is a confusing plant.

Thank you Ashwini ji for your views.  Your latest picture, if it is of the same species, adds to the confusion. I am inclined to believe that the latest picture belongs to a different species. However, these are my speculations, not to be taken too seriously. I would be happy if somebody can shed more light on it.

   Tabish

-------------------------------------------
www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Ashwini Bhatia <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com> wrote:

Dear Tabish ji and Mr Garg,

After a careful look, I am of the opinion that my sample is neither. I. balfourii has lower petals larger (more spread) than the dorsal ones (front view) unlike my sample and looking from the front I. devendrae fits the bill more. The spur is more like the balfourii. Unless there is great variation within the species, it is difficult to choose between these two.

I found an old picture from 31 August, 2014 showing the front view and is likely to be of the same species as my current sample.

Many thanks and regards,

Ashwini

<_MG_7323_31Aug2014.jpg>

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Thank you Mr Garg. The closest match seems to be the I. devendrae. Hopefully an expert will comment. Regards, Ashwini

Thanks, Ashwini ji, for the Id. I think it matches well with images at Impatiens devendrae - from me

This should be Impatiens balfourii   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_balfourii   http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071527   Tabish

Thanks, Tabish ji.

To me Impatiens balfourii looks different at your given link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impatiens_balfourii Also see Impatiens balfourii at https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/b/balsaminaceae/impatiens/impatiens-balfourii-1?pli=1 http://calphotos.berkeley.edu/cgi/img_query?where-genre=Plant&where-taxon=Impatiens+balfourii

These are all different from posted plant. - from me

Request you to look at the side view of the flower, particularly the spur and the sepal before it, to compare with I. devendrae and I. balfourii.    Tabish

After a careful look, I am of the opinion that my sample is neither. I. balfourii has lower petals larger (more spread) than the dorsal ones (front view) unlike my sample and looking from the front I. devendrae fits the bill more. The spur is more like the balfourii. Unless there is great variation within the species, it is difficult to choose between these two.

I found an old picture from 31 August, 2014 showing the front view and is likely to be of the same species as my current sample. Many thanks and regards, Ashwini

This is Impatiens confusa! Just joking! This indeed is a confusing plant.

Thank you Ashwini ji for your views.  Your latest picture, if it is of the same species, adds to the confusion. I am inclined to believe that the latest picture belongs to a different species. However, these are my speculations, not to be taken too seriously. I would be happy if somebody can shed more light on it.    Tabish

Thank you Tabish Ji. I can add this to the list of difficult genera along with the Viola and Cynoglossum. I am hopeful though that one day we will resolve this confusion.

Thank you once again for your help. Ashwini

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ashwini Bhatia <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com>
Date: 29 June 2016 at 21:41
Subject: [efloraofindia:245967] Impatiens spp. ABJUN01/11
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[Wojciech Adamowski]

Sorry for delay in answer - I am busy with field work and I often have to little energy left in the afternoon to analyse pictures.

As far as I know, this is not I. bicolor, of which typical form is clearly pink and yellow (upper petal and upper part of lateral petals pink, lower part of lateral petals yellow). This is also not I. balfourii as I know it from European populations - to much yellow markings on petals and lower sepal.

Similar situation with I. devendrae - in original description there are some rusty/orange/brick colored markings on petals, but these are much smaller.

In conclusion, I don't know exactly what it is, as I don't know whole variability of balsams in Western Himalayas.

Best regards                      Wojciech

[Ashwini Bhatia]

Thank you very much Mr Adamowski for taking the time to explain this. 

With best regards,

Ashwini

<_MG_7840_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_7989_26June2016.jpg><_MG_7998_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_8004_26June2016.jpg>

<_MG_7844_26June2016.jpg>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

<_MG_7998_26June2016.jpg><_MG_7989_26June2016.jpg><_MG_8004_26June2016.jpg><_MG_7840_26June2016.jpg><_MG_7844_26June2016.jpg>

[Ashwini Bhatia]

Here are some additional photos of seedpods, seeds and leaf serrations with glands. Hopefully it will help us closer to an ID.

Thanks.

Ashwini

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Wojciech ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Wojciech Adamowski <kruszc...@yahoo.com>
Date: 27 August 2016 at 12:09
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:245967] Impatiens spp. ABJUN01/11
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Still no conclusion.

I hope to get pictures of some Impatiens from Pakistan, maybe this will help to recognize this one...

Best regards                     Wojciech

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Impatiens species- Himachal- close to I. devendrae

Group discussion at

Impatiens spp. ABJUN01/11 (google.com)

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Impatiens species- Himachal- close to I. devendrae

Group discussion at

Impatiens spp. ABJUN01/11 (google.com)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: ashwini <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com>
Date: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 at 9:41:28 PM UTC+5:30
Subject: Impatiens spp. ABJUN01/11
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[Saroj Kasaju]

Impatiens lemannii Hook.fil. & Thomson ??

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji, for the id.

Yes appears close to images of Impatiens lemannii at Flowers of India.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Ashwini Bhatia <ash...@ashwinibhatia.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 at 21:41
Subject: [efloraofindia:245967] Impatiens spp. ABJUN01/11
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Tabish]

Beautiful images! And yes, I think it is Impatiens lemannii, a rarely photographed Balsam of the Himalaya.

   Best wishes

   Tabish

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Tabish ji

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Garg / Tabish !

Saroj Kasaju

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[Ashutosh Sharma]

Yes it is surely something from I. lemannii complex however the case is not as simple as it may look initially. 

As Impatiens lemannii Hook.f. & Thomson is described based on Griffith's collection from Ottipore, Afghanistan far away from Himachal Pradesh. In Flora Iranica C.Grey-Wilson treated this species having three infraspecific taxa viz. I. lemannii subsp. lemannii var. lemannii, I. lemannii subsp. lemannii var. multiflora Grey-Wilson and  I. lemannii subsp. kurramensis Grey-Wilson showing complexity of this species. Additionally this is not rare infact its abundant in its locality (it may be leen less known as it's distribution is in much West and is possibly not found in East of Himachal Pradesh and beyond).

For now we may treat it as Impatiens cf. lemannii Hook.f. & Thomson, i am hopefull that i will have a better clear answer by next year as we (i & Dr. W. Adamowski) are already working to resolve this another Impatiens complex.

With best regards

Ashutosh Sharma 

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Ashutosh ji.
In fact, I was waiting for your views as I did not find its distribution in CoL and POWO.

--
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J. M. Garg