Senecio chrysanthemoides DC. (provisionally accepted name) ???

[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear Members,

Location: Kalinchowk, Dolakha, Nepal

Altitude: 8000 ft.

Date: 24 July 2014

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

The name Senecio chrysanthemoides caught my eye. This was the 10th plant my team collected on the University of Southampton Ladakh Expedition 1980 - at some 3300m at Panichar in the Suru Valley; it was common and variable, the specimens pressed were from a grassy verge beside irrigation channels & barley fields in moist loamy soil amongst Trifolium, grasses, Geranium himalayense; bright yellow ray-florets, disc florets brown.  Naturally, a plant growing in Ladakh will not 'match' exactly one found under wetter conditions thousands of feet lower in Nepal.

At present, all I can say is Senecio sp. - the situation is complicated.

Flora of Kathmandu Valley lists S.chrysanthemoides and 5 others, with two locations given: Godawari 1676m & Manichur 2255m; there is a key to the species of Senecio but after separating S.scandens as a climber, the rest are separated on the basis of the anther-cells being tailed below or obtuse at the base, not produced downwards into tails - clearly not a lot of use unless one has pressed specimens to examine!

The Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal recognised var. chrysanthemoides and var. spectabilis.

This work says S.diversifolius is distinguished from S.chrysanthemoides by its larger capitula and red pappus, although both these characters are variable. Further investigation may show that S.diversifolius should be included in S.chrysanthemoides. 

The current 'Plant List' has S.chrysanthemoides as an accepted name but S.diversifolius is unresolved.  Some of the images of this species available look close to those taken by Saroj - obviously one cannot see the pappus hairs.

'Flora of Bhutan' (2001) has S.chrysanthemoides as only a synonym of Senecio laetus, whilst S.diversifolius is given as a synonym of Senecio raphanifolius.   The authors say some specimens are intermediate between the two!  Both of these species are accepted names in 'The Plant List'.

Clearly, the genus Senecio requires further study including in Nepal - the references I have given above covering Nepal are decades out-of-date.

Flowers of the Himalaya says shrubberies & open slopes, common & gregarious from 2400-4000m Pakistan to SW China. 

Stewart found this to be common and very variable in Kashmir from 1700-4000m; he considered the forms needed to be studied in cultivation and that

chromosome counts should be made.

Collet in Flora Simlensis found S.chrysanthemoides to be common at Shimla & Mahasu but this is almost a century out-of-date.

S.chrysanthemoides was recorded in 'The Valley of Flowers' book but this is very out-of-date; I have noted quite a number of misidentifications.

[J.M. Garg]

Also see comparative images in efi so far at Senecio

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

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[C CHADWELL]

Further to my comments about the difficulties of identifying Senecio chrysanthemoides and related

species, I attach an image of what I understand to be this species taken for me in Ladakh as a slide

in the late 1980s/early 1990s, which has been scanned in.

This was one of the first pressed specimens collected by my team during the 1980 University of Southampton

Ladakh Expedition - gathered in triplicate, with a set deposited in the herbarium of the University of Kashmir.

This was at 3300m, Panichar, Suru Valley on a grassy verge beside irrigation stream and a barley field in moist

loam amongst Trifolium, grasses, Geranium himalayense with bright yellow ray florets, disc florets brown.

Stewart recorded S.chrysanthemoides as common, very variable with the forms NEEDING TO BE STUDIED

in cultivation and chromosome counts should be made.  Recorded from Kashmir & Ladakh @ 1700-4000m.

Stewart recognised var. analogus and var. sisymbriiformis - saying this was common on high pastures in Kashmir

as it is avoided by grazing animals.

Flowers of the Himalaya state that S.chrysanthemoides is found in shrubberies and open slopes, common & often

gregarious @ 2400-4000m from Pakistan to SW China.

Flora of Lahaul-Spiti does not record S.chrysanthemoides but has S.laetus with var. laetus common on moist slopes

and along glacial streams at Khoksar.  Also var. sisymbriiformis (DC.) Aswal comb.nov. (syn. Senecio chrysanthemoides

var. sisymbriiformis and obviously a mistake but rather glaring to be printed, SISYMBRIUM sisymbriiformis) which the

authors say is common on moist slopes and along streams at Kirting.

Collet in 'Flora Simlensis' found S.chrysanthemoides common at Shimla and Mahasu.

Himalayan Plants Illustrated has a photo of S.laetus Edgew. with S.chrysanthemoides DC. as a synonym.

BUT Dickore & Klimes do NOT list S.chrysanthemoides from Ladakh. although the species remains an ACCEPTED name - at least

in 'The Plant List'.  Nor do they list S.laetus.

So which of the species listed by them was previously known as S.chrysanthemoides - after all the specimens from the 1980

expedition were named at Kew and thus we can assume was correctly identified and in line with the thinking at that time - albeit

some 37 years ago.

They list S.dubitabilis, which if the illustrations and specimen which can be accessed through 'The Plant List' are correct, this cannot be confused

with what used to be S.chrysanthemoides and may be what Stewart knew as S.desfontanei (common in dry areas from the plains to

3000m in Ladakh).

I CANNOT find any meaningful information about Senecio korschinskyi. which Dickore & Klimes do list but have just

spotted Senecio ladakhensis Chowdhery, Uniyal, Mathur & Rao.  This species was published in the Indian Journal of Forestry (

13[4] 366-67  in 1990).  If any members have ready access to this would they share the information with us particularly how it is .  I am particularly interested

in which species of Senecio this NEW species might have been mistaken for in the past?

Strange that it was published back in 1990 yet Dickore & Klimes did not include it in their check-list of Ladakh plants in 2005.

This is the first I have heard of S.ladakhensis.  Just goes to show that unless one works at an International Institution, which has copies

of such publications as The Indian Journal of Forestry, such NEW species are easily missed - for decades!   And unless the species is covered

elsewhere, is virtually UNKNOWN......  This species may not be similar to S.chrysanthemoides.

Yes, it appears (with a VAST number of other species) in the List of Senecio species but that appears to be it.  But it is 2017, some 27 years AFTER publication that I have come across this name.   There appear to be no pressed specimens of S.ladakhensis at Kew or Edinburgh.  SURELY, it makes sense for those in a senior position in Indian botany to ensure reference specimens of NEWLY described species in India are sent to the major herbaria interested in Indian flora.  Has this been happening?  Kew and Edinburgh have a tradition of interest in Himalayan Flora.  IF NOT, it contributes to isolation.  Surely, after NEW species have been published a team could be sent to gather more pressed specimens (and to access to abundance or not of the species in the district it was found) which could then be distributed abroad....   IF it has not been happening, then WHY NOT?   Surely, the nearest University or Institution with a herbarium, to the location where the NEW species has been found, would wish to have reference specimens for that Institution, so could undertake the collection of fresh specimens.  All this makes sense to me - any such collections/surveys could readily be combined with other survey work.   AFTER all, GREAT significance seems to be attached to the 'discovery' of 'NEW' species....  But IF the world knows nothing about such species.....

In this day age (not the case back in 1990) surely, some national organisation in India could publish images and descriptions of ALL new species recorded from India which THE WORLD could readily access for COMPARATIVE purposes?   In the past, species DESCRIBED in writing only within journals or listed in floras - where it was impossible to check the reliability of identifications, caused problems of INTERNATIONAL validation, particularly if those publishing the species had NOT checked with specialists in the West PRIOR to publication.

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

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From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Saroj Kasaju <kasaj...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 20 January 2017, 12:53
Subject: [efloraofindia:261897] Fwd: Senecio chrysanthemoides DC. (provisionally accepted name) ???

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Senecio raphanifolius Wall. ex DC.

Syn: Senecio diversifolius Wall. ex DC.

Nepali Name : मर्चा Marchaa

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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