Why is the community ID at higher, rather than lower, level?

[Alison Northup]

I was under the impression that community ID rules were changed so that the lowest-level ID is used if there are no conflicts. Why then is this observation showing up as Vascular Plants instead of genus Impatiens?

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/11665611

[Chris Cheatle]

Because the disagreement is an 'explicit disagreement', which means it requires more than 1 vote to offset it.

[bouteloua]

In this case, your ID of vascular plants "backed it up" so far that it also counts as a disagreement with Impatiens, because you are also saying you disagree that it is Angiospermae or Magnoliopsida, which are clades that Streptanthus and Impatiens are both in. 

(It is the "observation ID" — the one at the top of the page, above the image— that uses the lowest level ID if there are no conflicts. The "community ID"—displayed on the righthand side of the page—shows the one that more than 2/3 identifiers agree with.)

cassi

[Alison Northup]

Oh man, that seems a little unfortunate. Your logic seems to hold, but I certainly didn't feel disagreement with angiosperms, etc. I just knew it wasn't Steptanthus but didn't know what it was. Is this how its been for the last year, because I don't recall coming across this before.

[cassi saari]

Yeah, for a while now. It doesn't look like there are a ton you have IDed that are  "stuck" at Tracheophyta: 

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/identify?reviewed=any&taxon_id=211194&lrank=phylum&ident_user_id=alisonnorthup (not quite sure the best way to search for this without using the API)

cassi

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[Alison Northup]

Cassi, thanks for that link! I am saving it and it should be useful to me in the future.

Also, I’ve wrapped my head around that explanation. I think it does make sense in the grand scheme. And many, if not most, of my IDs that are stuck at Tracheophyta make sense there. They are an actual disagreement about Class.

Alison

[Chris Vynbos]

So if you disagree with genus X but use a Phylum to voice that disagreement, iNat then assumes you are saying the ID is wrong all the way up to Phylum. That seems a bit excessive. In which case, if you know it isn't genus X, but you have no clue other than the Phylum, how do you change an ID that you know is wrong? I guess you could call on the help of others. 

[cassi saari]

You can also just withdraw your ID once it is further refined by someone else.

cassi

[Mark Tutty]

“How do you change an ID you know is wrong”

 

That is the whole point of CID, in that no one person is the determiner. I can’t look at an observation and say “that is not Xxx yyy, it is Aaa bbb and correct it. What I can do is make MY id as Aaa bbb and state my reasons, and then hopefully everyone else goes “oh, yeah...” and changes theirs. If I know others that know the true story behind this one, I can tag them and if they agree with me (either they know the true story or they have come to trust my world view) they can add their weight to it. Sometimes I tag them in and they agree with “the other side” ☹. And I have a few observations that I think are stuck on “the wrong ID” because someone I have great respect for is holding what I consider to be a wrong ID, but it doesn’t matter, because I know at some stage in the future, either that identifier will “come to their senses”, or others will correct it. I’ve made my case and I am happy to let the CID reflect the majority view.

 

The terrific by-product of CID and differences of opinion, is that some terrific dialogues happen around them, and those are absolutely golden learning opportunities.

 

It took me a long time to get over the notion that someone could call a cat a dog, but having to deal with that for the last 3 to 4 years, I think it kinda works in the longrun. In situations where you find it hard to gain that extra weight, it makes it more necessary to provide rigorous support in the way of links/references to literature etc. A consequence of CIDs is that the ID can change often, and many years after as well. I’m still getting Ids (mostly refinements but a few changes) nearly 4 years later.

 

cheers
Mark Tutty
kiwif...@gmail.com

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