a new (better?) way to add observations

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Ken-ichi

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May 6, 2016, 4:13:15 PM5/6/16
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Hey folks,

Here's something for you to play with over the weekend:
http://gorilla.inaturalist.org/observations/uploader

Username: preview
Password: 313phant

The slightly longer story: adding observations to iNat is... a mess.
The add obs form has always been one of the most frustrating parts of
the site for a lot of people, so frustrating that these days we
usually just tell people to use the app if they can. Way too much data
entry, especially when most of that information is increasingly
embedded in the photo that you're going to upload anyway. So we redid
it based largely on Flickr's version of the same, which we think is
pretty rad, and the result is what I linked above. We'd love your
feedback, keeping in mind these particulars:

1) We really want this to replace not just
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/upload but also
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/new, so please let us know if
anything *critical* to your workflow is missing. A lot of things are,
but most can still be added from the observation detail page and the
observation edit page. We're not promising to keep *all* the
functionality from http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/new, since
that page does a lot of niche, weird stuff that only a handful of
people use, but we would like to know who's using what.

2) This is just a test server, nothing you do on gorilla will get
saved to the main site

3) We are planning to add some more batch editing tools, like adding
to projects, but maybe not for the first release.

Many thanks to Joelle and Patrick for doing most of the work on this.
I'm pretty excited to get it out there. For the techies, we're using
Redux, React, and ES6 for the first time, and it's working out pretty
well for us, even though we've kind of bolted them on to the front of
our old-but-sturdy Rails-based ship.

-ken-ichi

Tony Wills

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May 6, 2016, 7:03:10 PM5/6/16
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Sounds great, but I'm getting Invalid email address or password. when I try logging in there with that usercode/password.

--Tony.


Ken-ichi

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May 6, 2016, 7:07:42 PM5/6/16
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When you visit the site for the first time, you'll get an
"Authentication Required" popup, and that's where you user that
username / password combo. When signing into the site, use your normal
iNat login credentials.
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Scott Loarie

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May 6, 2016, 7:09:15 PM5/6/16
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Hi Tony,

You just need to sign in 
you're normal iNat username/password should work (gorilla has an older version of the production database loaded up that should include your account)
if not go to Sign Up to make a new fake account (remember anything you do on gorrilla is just a sandbox and won't affect the main site)
then once you're logged in go back to http://gorilla.inaturalist.org/observations/uploader to try it out

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 4:03 PM, Tony Wills <tny...@hotmail.com> wrote:

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Tony Wills

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May 6, 2016, 7:33:42 PM5/6/16
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Thanks guys I'm logging in ok now.

I **love** the ability to upload multiple photos for one observation at the same time ("combine" functionality), took me a few minutes to find I could drag-select the photos I wanted, rather than shift/ctrl click to select multiple photos when I uploaded a bunch of photos for different observations.

So far so good :-)

-- Tony

Tony Wills

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May 6, 2016, 7:45:47 PM5/6/16
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For combining photos, I found I could do a shift/ctrl click selection using one of the "windows" keys on the keyboard - I haven't encountered that usage before (a flickr thing?), but serves the purpose ok.

-- Tony.

Charlie Hohn

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May 6, 2016, 9:21:50 PM5/6/16
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i like it so far... in fact the one suggestion that comes to mind would be an option to have this as a 'draft' screen and put observations from the app there first before publishing them. It would probably need to be an opt in so it didn't confuse new users but could be a nice feature. Maybe too peripheral. anyhow i think it looks great so far, will think about it more
============================
Charlie Hohn
Montpelier, Vermont

David K

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May 6, 2016, 9:56:46 PM5/6/16
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The drag/drop and select both worked for me from my hard drive, but it hung every time I tried to import from Flickr.

I do like the simplicity but I would prefer to be able to add projects on the entry screen.  While I also use tags, it is less frequent and can wait for an edit - but if you are using Flickr as a model, they do have that function on the entry screen.

The 'Combine' function is useful once you know about it, but it wasn't at all obvious what the purpose was - maybe I wasn't being adventurous enough, but I only clued in from Tony's note.
David

James Bailey

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May 7, 2016, 8:39:44 PM5/7/16
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The only thing I use regularly that isn't there is importing sounds from soundcloud.com

DFWUW

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May 7, 2016, 10:25:22 PM5/7/16
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Will you be including the geoprivacy setting?  Can we have the map remember a "homebase" location?

Donald Hobern

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May 8, 2016, 1:55:40 AM5/8/16
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Hi Ken-ichi. 

Couldn't see some of these already mentioned. 

I organise 99% of my photos in Flickr and would still want the option to add from Flickr photos and SoundCloud recordings. 

Most of my records have multiple images and I couldn't see how to do that. 

I assume that curators will be able to add new taxa during upload of observations. 

I also use the old Add Batch function where images are lacking for a set of species. 

Loss of any of these abilities would be a big worry. There again, I miss old features from Flickr too - it used to be a wonderful site for managing an image library. Now it's often a slog. 

Donald

Donald Hobern

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May 8, 2016, 2:03:37 AM5/8/16
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Just saw I missed most of what I listed as a side path from the first page. The Flickr option is hanging right now. If the functions remain there,  I'm fine. 

Reading more of the comments above, I'd also suggest you avoid where possible features which require, rather than support, drag and drop. I'm finding that too much of that gives me wrist and finger problems. 

Donald

Ken-ichi

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May 8, 2016, 2:24:32 AM5/8/16
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Re Flickr and Soundcloud, we're not changing how that works for now.
If those links aren't working we'll fix them, but they're just going
to go to http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/import for the first
pass.

Armand Turpel

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May 8, 2016, 4:00:07 AM5/8/16
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Before going online with changes of the must important part of the inat interface it would be useful to ask the inat community users what they think about. The active users in this google group represent only a tiny part of the inat community.

DFWUW

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May 8, 2016, 8:51:05 AM5/8/16
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I agree with this sentiment...  I am frequently surprised by changes to the iNat interface that seem to come with no warning or explanation.  Maybe there is a messaging or notice page I am unaware of, but it would be nice to get some kind of broadcast to the community that things are changing or have already been changed.  I have material that I have put together to promote iNat that is obsoleted quite frequently.  

Curt Fiedler

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May 8, 2016, 9:13:52 AM5/8/16
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Maybe I'm just stupid, but I can't log in with the preview ID or my naturalist ID. And I'm logged into iNaturalist with my usual ID.

I get this error:

The user name or password you entered for area “Restricted” on gorilla.inaturalist.org:80 was incorrect. Make sure you’re entering them correctly, and then try again.

-Curt

Patrick Leary

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May 8, 2016, 10:49:23 AM5/8/16
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Here's a few clarifications. When you go to http://gorilla.inaturalist.org/ you should see a popup password prompt that looks something like:

This is the only place you need to enter the sandbox username and password:
  User Name: preview 
  Password: 313phant

Once you are able to see the sandbox version of iNaturalist, then you will need to log in with you normal iNaturalist username and password to gain access to the uploader we are testing http://gorilla.inaturalist.org/observations/uploader

As Ken-ichi mentioned, we are hoping this new interface can replace http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/upload and http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/new but not the other import options (Flickr, Soundcloud, etc.). You can access the other import options under "More import options":


These other import options have not changed, and thus we are not testing them. Furthermore, since this is a sandbox site, it does not have the proper credentials to access remote sites like Flickr and Soundcloud, which is why people have reported that they don't work on this server. But again, no other import interfaces have changed yet. That's not to say they won't get attention in the future. But for right now, we're just beta testing a new interface for uploading single or multiple photos from your computer via http://gorilla.inaturalist.org/observations/uploader 

- Patrick

Cullen Hanks

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May 8, 2016, 11:02:03 AM5/8/16
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Is it possible to add/highlight ACC (accuracy) to the fields that you can edit?  That is a really important field, and it would be nice if you had the option to add acc to your observations efficiently.

For example, I batch upload my photos that all have about the same accuracy, I want to be able to assign accuracy easily.  The more difficult it is for people, the less often it is populated.

Best,

Cullen 



Ken-ichi

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May 8, 2016, 2:03:21 PM5/8/16
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That's what we're doing right now. These changes are *not* live, they're only on a testing server for you to test before they go live. We actually make a pretty concerted effort to check in with you guys before making major changes like this (and by major I mean changes that involve a loss or change in functionality vs strictly visual changes), so I'm not sure where this complaint is coming from.

-ken-ichi

On May 8, 2016 1:00 AM, "Armand Turpel" <armand...@gmail.com> wrote:

Before going online with changes of the must important part of the inat interface it would be useful to ask the inat community users what they think about. The active users in this google group represent only a tiny part of the inat community.

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Scott Loarie

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May 8, 2016, 2:08:07 PM5/8/16
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Hi Cullen,

You can use the tool to batch add a location to multiple observations (e.g. lat/lon/acc) but not just part of a location (e.g. acc).

But you can batch alter accuracy only in the existing batch edit interface http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/edit/batch?o=3122622 which will remain unchanged and linked to from Observations -> By You

DFWUW

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May 8, 2016, 7:07:23 PM5/8/16
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Ken-ichi,

I don't want to speak for Armand, but I believe what he is suggesting is that it might be a good idea to find a way to include the opinions of a broader cross section of iNat users in a decision of this magnitude.  I tend to agree with that view.  The number of iNaturalist users that are represented in this Google group is a tiny fraction of all the iNaturalist users.  The people who know about and participate in this Group group get to influence design and enhancement decisions, and the rest of us just get to be surprised by them.   

I receive a "New Updates" email from iNaturalist everyday... it would be nice if there was a section in that email alerting us to upcoming changes or directing us to this Google Group to review a proposed change like this one.  That way there would be better communication and broader participation when a question like yours is posed.

Like I mentioned earlier... I have a presentation that I have put together to help promote participation in iNaturalist.  The content in this presentation is frequently obsoleted before I become aware that changes have been made to iNaturalist.  This makes me think that there needs to be a mechanism for alerting the community at large about interfaces changes and how they are supposed to work.

As far as this latest proposed change is  concerned, it is hard to make a judgement about whether it is an improvement or not.  I asked several specific questions above and they were not answered. I'd like to give you some feedback on the change, but I cannot if I have unanswered questions about it.

I hope that helps,
Chris 

Cullen Hanks

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May 8, 2016, 7:35:48 PM5/8/16
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That is unfortunate, accuracy really increases the value of the data.  It would be great if it could be elevated in the batch upload process.

-Cullen

Ken-ichi

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May 9, 2016, 2:38:00 PM5/9/16
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. Some answers to some questions (Chris, I usually wait a few days so I can see what questions get asked multiple times):

> option to have this as a 'draft' screen

Nope. We've talked about drafts a lot elsewhere and I think it's a separate issue.

> Will you be including the geoprivacy setting?

Yes.

> Can we have the map remember a "homebase" location?

That's a larger issue affecting more than just this page, so no, not as a part of this change. Also what do you mean, have all the maps zoom to a default location default, or all observations to have a default location by default? The former would be pretty uncontroversial, the latter seems like it would lead to a lot of wrong locations.

> I organise 99% of my photos in Flickr and would still want the option to add from Flickr photos and SoundCloud recordings. 

We're not removing this, just pushing it to the import screen for the first release.  The goal is to support external media import from the new uploader screen, but that's pretty complicated so we're tabling it for the first cut.

> Most of my records have multiple images and I couldn't see how to do that. 

The "Combine" button at the top does what you want after you've selected multiple photos, and you can drag and drop to combine. Clearly people aren't finding this immediately, though I'm not sure that's too much of a problem. Once you know how to do it, I think it's very usable.

> I assume that curators will be able to add new taxa during upload of observations. 

We should certainly support import from external name providers, but we will not be supporting manually adding new taxa from this screen. We didn't do it on the old one either.

> I also use the old Add Batch function where images are lacking for a set of species. 

Not sure what this means.

> I'd also suggest you avoid where possible features which require, rather than support, drag and drop

I think the only action that *requires* drag and drop is removing a photo from an observation. To add observations there's a button. To combine them there's a button. Selecting multiple observations requires a drag click, but maybe if we added support for selecting things with SHIFT and the arrow keys that would meet your needs?

> I want to be able to assign accuracy easily.

We're going to support batch editing individual aspects of location, including coordinates, accuracy, and geoprivacy.

-ken-ichi

Carrie Seltzer

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May 9, 2016, 4:47:36 PM5/9/16
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Awesome! This is going to make it SOOOO much easier to get through my backlog of older photos! Right now I have a complicated color coding system in Finder to designate which image I should upload first, then which other photos I should add to different observations. The combine function is going to make the process much faster!

I have a few comments/suggestions, but I personally would also use this as-is.
-It would be nice if the images were bigger because it can be hard to see from thumbnails which ones I want to combine.
-Relatedly, I'd like to be able to click anywhere (except the X) to enlarge an image rather than having to click the magnifying glass in the lower right corner.
-An "undo" button would be nice to have if you accidentally combine two things that you didn't want to.
-I notice that dragging photos out after they have been combined doesn't auto-add metadata. I'd probably prefer to have it use metadata to repopulate the fields.
-I like that you can select multiple observations at once and edit data there. However, I find the x's on the map hard to see and a little bit confusing since anything in my batch shows up on the map even if I'm only editing the location of one observation.
-I found it easy enough to edit the accuracy when I was editing locations.
-Once you've added a photo, it seems redundant to show the same fields on the left hand side of the screen as immediately under the photo itself because then there's two places on the screen to do exactly the same thing. It's useful when you're editing multiple photos, but otherwise it feels unneccessary. I don't have any better ideas though except maybe to only show the edit fields on the left side when you've selected more than one observation to edit.  

Overall really great though and I'm excited to use it when it's live!

Carrie

Charlie Hohn

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May 9, 2016, 4:57:10 PM5/9/16
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I too found the duplication on the left a bit confusing when editing only one photo. Maybe you can make it only pop up when more than one is selected? Or gray it out otherwise?


Donald Hobern

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May 9, 2016, 5:39:44 PM5/9/16
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Thanks, Ken-ichi.

My "Add Batch" question was about the UI for entering a bunch of names as a list (without photos). I use that, but can see it's not relevant to this discussion now.

Donald 

Kent McFarland

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May 10, 2016, 3:02:25 PM5/10/16
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Thank you Ken-ichi for allowing us to jump in and test and suggest changes and ideas like this. I really appreciate it. I also think it is great that you are thinking hard about workflow for adding obs. I have had many many new users walk away because they felt it was a little too overwhelming on data entry. 

Here are some comments and suggestions I have for:

The way I see this is you have two steps to enter an observation. Step one is the uploading of media, and step two is metadata about the observation. Here, this includes right now just species ID, date and location. 

1. In step one, I think it would be better if we had a button for each upload type. photos, sound, video (when that day comes), other (flickr, FB, etc.). click and upload on the button of choice. 
2. I think step two is too much. Step two should just be: Where. Just have the map in large format as you have in the map pop up box. Let user just concentrate on the where. And, perhaps have a favorites list on one column that the user can keep to choose often visited locations quickly. If the media had location metadata with it, the dot would be on the map and it would allow the user to quickly check the location visually to make sure their device captured it in the field correctly. 
3. I think step 3 should be when and what part. What species, and the ability to add extra fields here by observer, and if they enter via a project and there are required fields, they would show up here, tability to add project(s), etc. This would be the information step. As a fan of well run projects within iNat, I think it is VERY important that users can add data to a project during actual data entry. 
4. Then, the observation is submitted and it has a window that asks: Would you like to add another observation? And there would be links with these below that would help them enter data more quickly perhaps.
- in the same location and date?
- in the same location different date
-in the same region and date?
- in different location same date?
- in a different location and date?
5. Finally, make all these data entry pages very clear and not busy to cut down on data entry error and keep the observer on task of just putting in data carefully. 


Hope this helps and there is a kernel or two here of use.
Thanks,
Kent

____________________________

Kent McFarland
Vermont Center for Ecostudies
PO Box 420 | Norwich, Vermont 05055
802.649.1431 x2


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Armand Turpel

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May 11, 2016, 3:13:18 AM5/11/16
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The combine function assemble more photos under one species. This function could be more flexible.


1. Combine more media types to one species (photos, sounds, documents,..)

2. Combine many species observations to one location. The combine menu entry could be a selectbox > to one species, > to one location. This could be very useful.


Furthermore, to possibility to write comments for each photo is something I miss.

DFWUW

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May 11, 2016, 11:46:57 AM5/11/16
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My way of working is to process my photos (crop, etc) in photoshop  for first.  Through this process I lose the original photo's metadata, and have to enter it all in to iNaturalist by hand---which I don't mind at all. 

Except for a few nitpicks, I have never really objected the current input interface concept.  I personally don't see a compelling benefit from the proposed change.

Changes that I would appreciate are things that would eliminate a little repetition form the input process.  If the system could remember my preference for geoprivacy and map vs satellite view  that would be tremendous.  If the "Where were you?" input would remember and provide a select list of my previous entries that would be amazing.

I would prefer to have a single "Save" button (instead of a "Save observation" and a "Save and add another"), with an "Add another Observation" button available on the Observation summary page shown after saving (I am really surprised this is not already there --- this is often noted as a confusing issue by my new participants.  They can't figure out how to enter their next observation after entering their first).  Some metadata memory (like date and location) from submission to submission would probably be of benefit as well.

I hope I can encourage you all to better communicate proposed and implemented changes to iNaturalist more broadly, possibly through the daily "New Updates" email.

Thanks, guys!

Charlie Hohn

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May 11, 2016, 11:51:29 AM5/11/16
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I would love someday to have some sort of basic photo editing (cropping and maybe annotating or 'tagging' or other note taking) within iNat. I think I would use it a lot. I know that's a bit peripheral to this but something to consider.

If location were saved I would worry that people might accidentally map everything inaccurately to the same place. Maybe that would be no worse than what happens now. but I personally think inaccurate mapping (including lack of filling out the uncertainty as Cullein points out) is the single biggest weakness in iNat data. Bad IDs can be verified or challenged with photos, but a wrong location is very difficult to find and vet. But maybe this is too off topic.

I wonder how many people read the daily emails. I'd guess less so than read the Google Group but I could be wrong. I personally think the google group has been sufficient in describing changes, I don't see a better way to do it. There have been notes on the main page for really big changes, too. But it's good to hear other people's thoughts since everyone uses the site a bit differently. 

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DFWUW

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May 11, 2016, 12:14:43 PM5/11/16
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This google group is a great place to discuss proposed changes.  It is not adequate for notifying the community at large of impending or implemented changes.  It does not communicate well because the information here is disjointed and unstructured.   Not everyone participates in this Group.  There needs to be a broadcast mechanism that includes everybody.  Email is one possibility.  I check my iNaturalist Update email everyday...  The messaging system in iNat could be used as well.  It is very important that changes be communicated well and documented in a structured, user's guide type of way.

I don't believe saving location information between submissions would hurt the integrity of submitted data.  We already accept and absorb a certain amount of imprecision, which is ok.  The time savings offered would be of great benefit, and I believe would encourage participation.  I see people dropping out of iNaturalist far too frequently, because they are frustrated with issues like these.

Charlie Hohn

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May 11, 2016, 1:10:04 PM5/11/16
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Oh, sending notifications with links to blog posts or the Google group about changes is a good idea!

Tony Iwane

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May 11, 2016, 3:33:46 PM5/11/16
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There are definitely things that could/should be changed, but I think this is already a marked improvement over photo uploader that is up there now and would definitely make my personal workflow better, so I'm all for it. Of course it doesn't solve every need we have, and I think it's best to keep in mind that this would be just a first release, and that more detailed and complex changes can be made in the future. My two cents.

Tony

Armand Turpel

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May 12, 2016, 3:00:05 AM5/12/16
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While playing a bit more with the new upload interface i realized that it has this flexibility described below. It isnt obvious on the first trial.  Sorry for the quick shot.

Lilly Adzler

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May 15, 2016, 2:14:58 AM5/15/16
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I LOVE this new uploader!  It's so much easier than the old one!  I think we should be able to upload small sound files as well, instead of going through Sound Cloud.

Charlie Hohn

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May 15, 2016, 10:42:54 AM5/15/16
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i would love to be able to avoid sound cloud or even record through the app. Soundcloud is a pain so I almost never use it

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Donald Hobern

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May 16, 2016, 2:35:33 AM5/16/16
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I agree that it would be wonderful if sounds could go straight to iNat.

emra...@gmail.com

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May 17, 2016, 11:17:13 AM5/17/16
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First impression is that this will be a big improvement & will dramatically simplify my workflow for adding observations. I use the web interface pretty much exclusively, so I often come back from a hike or trip with a bunch of observations to add, some with multiple photos, and often from the same location, and it looks like it would be super easy to add them through this rather than save-and-add-another over & over.

The combine-photos-to-single-observation & add-same-info-for-multiple-observations options are fantastic. My instinct was to ctrl+click to select multiple photos, which didn't seem to work. I could train myself to click & drag or shift+click (which appears to work), but it would be nice to have the ctrl+click option for non-contiguous selecting. Perhaps I missed something?

Really nice to be able to scroll directly between pictures - will this feature be added to observation pages as well? That would be great.

I agree with Carrie that clicking anywhere on the thumbnail to embiggen would be an improvement over having to click the magnify button.

Would also be nice to have a way to easily re-order photos by dragging or something. I often have multiple photos, but the one that I want to be the main photo is not the first one, so I have to either re-name it to sort first or go through the clunky re-order process later.

I think it would be nice to have the option to use tags on the front-end, rather than having to go back & add them later (which I would be apt to forget to do), but I understand that the idea is to simplify the process & remove clutter.

Thanks for continuing to make these carefully-thought-out improvements.

Evan

Jon Sullivan

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May 18, 2016, 12:47:53 AM5/18/16
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Interesting. You have been busy!

I can see why you've done this. The old add observation page is generally, and accurately, regarded as too complicated by new users. The new system is clearly better for new users.

Is it better, or the same, for me? Currently, no.

Here's some first impressions.

The first thing I tried was adding just one photo. It then takes me to the "Edit 1 observation" page where it displays the species name, date, and description twice, once on the left and once in a green box with the photo thumbnail. I imagine this makes sense when more than one photo is added [yes, it does]. It's a little confusing with just one photo, as it's not immediately clear which of the duplicate fields I'm supposed to fill out. From playing around, I see that either works fine. Ideally, when there was only one photo, we wouldn't get this duplication of entry fields. Just let people edit their one photo which would be automatically selected.

The old photo upload tool grabbed the species from the photo keywords. This one isn't. I expect that's on its way. It was really helpful.

I typed the species name into the box with the green box around it and the species name disappeared and went blank again. So I did it in the other box and the same thing happened. I assume this is a bug. Is the names lookup down on gorilla? [It did the same thing later when I edited the observation after I submitted it so I expect this is the case.]

I like that time now has an icon inside the calendar pop-up box. That's been a source of confusion for new users in the past who use the calendar to select the date then type the time into the description. That's despite the comment on the page about how to do this, which many don't read. It's also good that I can still type in edits to the date and time, and good to see that when I type in a time and don't include the time zone qualifier, it still defaults to the time zone in my profile.

I tried the Flickr upload but it's not working (Flickr's timing out). But the interface I see looks the same so if that's not changed, and still works, then that's fine. It's still my main way of getting photos into iNat (when I finally jump ship from the sinking Apple Aperture, I'll figure out a different workflow).

I then tried two photos at once. Ah! Now I see what the duplicate fields are for. I type into the one on the left and it applies to all of the selected photos at once. Cool. That just wasn't intuitive when I uploaded one photo. I like the the  combine tool (and the way I can flick through the photos in the combined observation).

Here''s some problems I see:

How would I add a single observation without a photo or audio recording? That happens often enough. For example, I see a neat bird fly over. I don't get a photo (e.g., I was driving at the time). I note the time and add it to iNat later. Or someone tells me about an important thing they've seen, but not photographed, and I encourage them to add an observation to iNat. I don't see how we'd do that with the new system. I like that people can add observations without photos using the old system. I wouldn't want to make this harder (or impossible, as it seems to be at the moment unless the CSV upload tool is used). The website should at least do everything that the app can do. Am I missing something?

I see that the keywords in my photos get automatically added as tags. How do I remove some of those or add new ones? It doesn't look like that's possible except by submitting then editing. I often end up adding or editing tags on the fly as I upload observations. It would be nice if we could still edit and add tags during upload.

And, please, let us add fields at the start. One reason I don't use the app is because I add fields to most of my observations (plant phenology, insect life stage, etc.) and I can't do it from the app. It's a hassle to add an observation to the app then go to the website and edit to finish them. Personally I'd be annoyed if the website workflow became the same. If there's the consensus that we need to keep the page as simple as it currently is, how about a "Pro" link we can push that opens up the options to add and edit fields and tags? Or a setting in our Profile, off by default, that will make these appear?

Will the new system capture field info automatically from the EXIF/IPTC of the photos like the current photo upload tool does? If so, that would be a handy workaround (although I have to admit that I've forgotten the syntax). I'd have to alter my workflow to accommodate that but I could do that if necessary. I'd still rather also have the option of adding them on upload.

I like Evan's suggestion of being able to drag photos around to decide which is the main one, although that's less important for me.

I support the sentiment of others that the SoundCloud solution for sound, while it works, is clunky. At some point it would be amazing if we could add sound directly like we do photos. But that's a different issue.

I also agree with others that we need to announce this change more widely before it takes effect. It's a big change and even change for the better takes a while to get used to.

Ken-ichi

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May 18, 2016, 1:42:05 AM5/18/16
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As some of you have probably noticed, we "soft launched" this today by
replacing the existing drag-and-drop uploader with the new uploader:
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/upload. The existing new
observation form is still in place, but we are still hoping to replace
it eventually. Clearly lots of feedback to incorporate, though. Since
Jon seems to have re-iterated a lot of common questions I can answer:

> The old photo upload tool grabbed the species from the photo keywords. This
> one isn't. I expect that's on its way. It was really helpful.

This works fine for me. If you can provide specifics that might help
debug it, e.g. the actual photo you're uploading, the keyword you're
expecting to get converted to an identification, and what you're
actually seeing.

> I typed the species name into the box with the green box around it and the
> species name disappeared and went blank again. So I did it in the other box
> and the same thing happened. I assume this is a bug. Is the names lookup
> down on gorilla? [It did the same thing later when I edited the observation
> after I submitted it so I expect this is the case.]

Again, specifics would help because it works for me. What name are you
typing in? What browser are you using? What else is going on with the
photo? Are there other photos?

> I tried the Flickr upload but it's not working (Flickr's timing out). But

Nothing's changed there, I suspect it just doesn't work on gorilla.
Try it in production

> How would I add a single observation without a photo or audio recording?

Click the "Add" button and choose "Observation without photo"

> I see that the keywords in my photos get automatically added as tags. How do
> I remove some of those or add new ones?

Working on it.

> And, please, let us add fields at the start

Considering it, just a tricky extra bit of UI.

> Will the new system capture field info automatically from the EXIF/IPTC of
> the photos like the current photo upload tool does?

It does, give it a try.

> I like Evan's suggestion of being able to drag photos around to decide which
> is the main one, although that's less important for me.

I like it too, but also a bit tricky. We'll investigate.

> I support the sentiment of others that the SoundCloud solution for sound,
> while it works, is clunky. At some point it would be amazing if we could add
> sound directly like we do photos. But that's a different issue.

We're not opening that can of worms here. This is about making it
easier to add observations, not about supporting new kinds of media
evidence. Would love to do this, but it has way more implications
across the entire system, and would benefit a small (but vocal)
minority of users.

> I also agree with others that we need to announce this change more widely
> before it takes effect. It's a big change and even change for the better
> takes a while to get used to.

We will, when we're ready for it to replace the add obs form. Just not
there yet, clearly. I hope most of you will agree this is a marked
improvement over the old drag-and-drop uploader, since it does
everything that did and a lot more.

And from Carrie:

> An "undo" button would be nice to have if you accidentally combine two things that you didn't want to.

Might be possible, but probably not something we'd do in the first
release, even if it is possible.

-ken-ichi

Jon Sullivan

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May 18, 2016, 6:10:09 AM5/18/16
to iNaturalist
Cool. Thanks Ken-ichi,

I didn't think to click the "+ Add" button if I didn't have a photo. That does the trick.


This works fine for me. If you can provide specifics that might help
debug it, e.g. the actual photo you're uploading, the keyword you're
expecting to get converted to an identification, and what you're
actually seeing.

I just tried the same photo on the live site and it worked fine, including correctly grabbing the name from the photo keywords (http://inaturalist.org/observations/3203530). Must have been a gorilla thing.

> I typed the species name into the box with the green box around it and the
 
> species name disappeared and went blank again. So I did it in the other box
> and the same thing happened. I assume this is a bug. Is the names lookup
> down on gorilla? [It did the same thing later when I edited the observation
> after I submitted it so I expect this is the case.]

Again, specifics would help because it works for me. What name are you
typing in? What browser are you using? What else is going on with the
photo? Are there other photos?

Nothing fancy. It was just one photo (the same as I just uploaded live). In Firefox on latest Mac OS. I reckon it must have been gorilla.

> How would I add a single observation without a photo or audio recording?

Click the "Add" button and choose "Observation without photo"

Doh! I was clearly too entranced by the big blue button.

> I see that the keywords in my photos get automatically added as tags. How do
> I remove some of those or add new ones?

Working on it.

> And, please, let us add fields at the start

Considering it, just a tricky extra bit of UI.

Thanks. That would be great! At least for me. :-)

> Will the new system capture field info automatically from the EXIF/IPTC of
> the photos like the current photo upload tool does?

It does, give it a try.

Was it field name:value or field name=value? Don't bother replying if you're busy. I'll try both and see which works.

> I also agree with others that we need to announce this change more widely
> before it takes effect. It's a big change and even change for the better
> takes a while to get used to.

We will, when we're ready for it to replace the add obs form. Just not
there yet, clearly. I hope most of you will agree this is a marked
improvement over the old drag-and-drop uploader, since it does
everything that did and a lot more.

That soft release live is a good idea. I'll alert keen people in NZ to that so that can give it a go. It's certainly a big improvement over the already handy drag-and-drop uploader.

Cheers,

Jon

Tim. Reichard

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May 18, 2016, 8:53:53 AM5/18/16
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I tried out the new photo uploader for the first time on the live web site (not the test site) using my computer.  It was easy to figure out how to use it.  The new way to handle observations with multiple photos was the best improvement over the old uploader for my workflow. Thanks for making that easier.

Some things went wrong.  On that new photo uploader page, I made sure every observation had an ID.  Some IDs were read from photo keywords. I manually added IDs to the other observations on the new photo uploader page.  When I then refreshed my observations on my iphone 6, the new observations appeared. 

Issue #1: Several IDs on the new observations were showing as "Unknown" on this app's observation list screen. This screen is the one that appears when I tap on "Me" at the bottom, and it shows a list of observations.  If I tap on one of those "Unknown" observations to look at the observation details screen, then everything looks right. The displayed ID on this screen is what I entered, not "Unknown". The IDs on the web site are correct.  So it may be an issue with only the app observation list screen.

Issue #2: One of the observations showed up with the ID of "Northern Cricket Frog?", with the question mark, on the app observation list screen. But this text is what I added to the Description (not the ID) using the new photo uploader web page.
See http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/3200387 and compare to attached screenshots.

Issue #3: On the new photo uploader web page, the thumbnails are too small. Even though I had cropped all the photos so the subjects mostly filled in the image, I found it difficult to group photos of the same subject together.

Here is a proposed test for thumbnail size.  Ask a colleague to collect photos for 5-10 observations of damselflies (thin toothpick-like creatures of different color patterns). Your colleague should include varying numbers of 1-3 photos for each of the observations and not tell you the numbers. The photos should have similar background colors so you have to look at the damselflies themselves to know which photos are of the same specimen.  You should be initially ignorant of which damselflies have only 1 photo or have multiple photos.  Have your colleague pass the set of photos to you.  Your job is to use the new photo uploader to group the damselflies photos together correctly to make the observations, using only the thumbnails.to determine which photos belong in the same observations. If you can't group the photos properly because you can't make out which damselfly is which, your thumbnails are probably too small.

I'm using iOS app 2.6.10 build 324 on an iphone 6.

Tim
obs_details_screen.PNG
obs_list_screen.PNG

Patrick Leary

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May 18, 2016, 12:56:49 PM5/18/16
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I think some of the problems with taxon names not showing properly on iOS was related to some metadata the new uploader was not storing, which the app was expecting. I fixed that problem, so hopefully the names for new observations will show properly. Please let me know if it continues to be a problem. Thanks!

- Patrick

Matthew Muir

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May 19, 2016, 9:41:09 AM5/19/16
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Just using this now -- thanks! I second all comments of gratitude for iNat's attention to people's workflows and have certainly encountered individuals (including some super-naturalists!) who find the upload process too time-consuming to participate. Moderate (I think?) intuitive overhauls like this help.

I don't use the drag-n-drop photo uploader, and I'm fuzzy on whether Flickr/Picasa/etc importers would see this new upload screen at all or if it's only for users importing from hard drive. Sorry if this is a reading comprehension issue. That being said, I could see this workflow being sufficiently attractive and quicker to finally abandon Picasa.

One problem I encountered was trying to change the place name for a batch of observations that had a variety of locations. I was able to do that just fine, but then I accidentally had wiped all the location data and had to go back and redo observation locations. Not sure if that's a bug or user error. In the old batch import screen, I am able to add a place name across observations without affecting the coordinates and want that ability in the new one. I also found that re-locating the marker reverted the place name back to the county name (rather than the place name I had just typed in) and that was annoying.

I second the comment about the ability to identify the first photo of an observation from this screen. Is it my imagination, or is the observation in which I drag other photos into used as the first photo for the observation. If true, that's an intuitive fix -- thanks!

Minor feature request (that would be applicable for any batch upload) - a fix-time button. Some photo management softwares have a very useful feature to adjust the time by adding or subtracting hours when for example, you've switched time zones and forgotten to adjust your camera time (or specific to Picasa imports, when Google adjusts the photo timestamp by 7-8 hours on all your photos imported to iNat). 

I found the taxon search field to be very smooth and quick, and same for the submit observations button (which isn't always the case in the old batch import process when the first screen after I submit a batch of 30-40 observations is often a long list of observations without photos -- which always causes a yeep! sound despite me knowing that a quick refresh will show my observations as I submitted them, photos attached).

Cheers, Matt

Charlie Hohn

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May 19, 2016, 11:12:21 AM5/19/16
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I tried this out 'for real' the other day and it worked great. Glad to see what Matt says that it sounds like if i accidentally close the window before hitting save it will keep them there... right? I really like how the uploader shows the X for the location of everything you are adding at once. I will test it further and see how it goes... I may be using it a lot because the beta test version of the iphone app I have now is not recording location correctly so I can't really use it. (note to anyone reading: this is a test version of the app, AFIAK the normal version is still working great). 

Todd Plummer

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May 19, 2016, 1:45:24 PM5/19/16
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how does the Soundcloud upload work now that Soundcloud no longer allows you to record sounds? i have this discssed here before, but never found a great solution that didnt involve at least 3 apps to upload a sound file.

Todd Plummer

Kent McFarland

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May 19, 2016, 1:53:24 PM5/19/16
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If using my iphone, I record it on iphone, then I email it to myself and upload it to soundcloud later.
Kent

____________________________

Kent McFarland
Vermont Center for Ecostudies
PO Box 420 | Norwich, Vermont 05055
802.649.1431 x2


On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Todd Plummer <plum...@gmail.com> wrote:
how does the Soundcloud upload work now  that Soundcloud no longer allows you to record sounds?  i have this discssed here before, but never found a great solution that didnt involve at least 3 apps to upload a sound file.

Todd Plummer

James Bailey

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May 19, 2016, 10:56:53 PM5/19/16
to iNaturalist
I use the app "Voice Record" which records and uploads to sound cloud, then I just add them to an observation on the PC.

M. Nicolai

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May 20, 2016, 12:08:47 PM5/20/16
to iNaturalist
I was trying out the new uploader over the last few days and it is such an improvement!  Previously I used the "add from photos" and it took several more steps and also using batch edit to accomplish the same thing. I also never liked how the observations submitted that way went live right after I uploaded them but before I had a chance to add location, description, additional photos, or my own ids first. This new version lets me get all the basics entered in before I submit.

I do agree that there are a few features missing that can only be done from the edit observation page. I like the idea that there could be a simple and advanced view of the page. Maybe have the more advanced options in a menu hidden or collapsed by default, or just offset with a different color. Just something to indicate that those fields are not necessary for beginners, but are still available to use in a convenient way for heavy users.

The one thing I'm missing is the old uploader would pull my photo caption or title and auto-fill the description field with it. I often enter in my id or notes on the observation into the photo caption in Picasa since it is the easiest to quickly edit. In Windows it is the file's title field. 

I noticed the time zone for everything I added with the new page is shown as COT (Columbia Time)  instead of CDT (Central Daylight Time). The time itself is correct, but I thought that was a little odd. The old uploader created observations with the correct time zone displayed.

Ken-ichi

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May 20, 2016, 2:04:23 PM5/20/16
to inaturalist
> The one thing I'm missing is the old uploader would pull my photo caption or
> title and auto-fill the description field with it. I often enter in my id or
> notes on the observation into the photo caption in Picasa since it is the
> easiest to quickly edit. In Windows it is the file's title field.
>
> I noticed the time zone for everything I added with the new page is shown as
> COT (Columbia Time) instead of CDT (Central Daylight Time). The time itself
> is correct, but I thought that was a little odd. The old uploader created
> observations with the correct time zone displayed.

Again, both of these things work just fine for me. If they're not
working for you, please include the URLs of the relevant observations,
screenshots of what you're seeing, and the photos you're trying to
upload as attachments. If you don't want to post these things to the
Google Group, you can email he...@inaturalist.org.

-ken-ichi

M. Nicolai

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May 22, 2016, 1:28:31 AM5/22/16
to iNaturalist
I tried it again and used the same exact image with the new "from photos" page and the old default single observation page. Hopefully they don't get flagged as duplicates and removed. Using the default add observation page and setting it to pull the meta data from the photo correctly adds the description and shows the correct time zone. The new "from photos" page fails to pull the description from the image file and adds the wrong time zone. I've attached the screen cap showing both these observations as seen together in my observations.
Here is the observation made with the new page. http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/3265255 . The picture file used is attached here as well.

I did notice the time zone issue on at least one other person's observations too. For both of us it looks like all observations added on or after 5/18  show the time zone as COT instead of CDT.

I use Opera for my browser (which is Chromium-based) on a Windows 7 desktop computer... maybe that is impacting how the webpage is working.
inat_timezone.jpg
P1410720.JPG

M. Nicolai

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May 22, 2016, 11:20:08 AM5/22/16
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Just realized that the photo I attached here must get resampled during the upload process and also have all the metadata stripped. So instead here is a link to it on Google Photos. When I tried downloading it from there, all the proper data is still with the file. https://goo.gl/photos/fASdF5GeYC7Ad5s49


On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 1:04:23 PM UTC-5, Ken-ichi Ueda wrote:

Tony Iwane

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May 22, 2016, 12:40:34 PM5/22/16
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I downloaded your photo from Google Photos and opened it with EXIFviewer. I'm not sure about the time zone thing, but I don't see any caption or title in the EXIF data. :/

M. Nicolai

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May 23, 2016, 10:50:11 AM5/23/16
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I had checked the photo using one of the websites that shows all the photo data and the caption is stored in the XMP "description" field. Picasa calls it a caption, Windows labels it as a title, and Google Photos labels it a description. It also gets very confusing with EXIF, IPTC, & XMP?? I really don't know that what the current standards are. I thought I had read in a prior post here that iNat did use the XMP description field though. The previous iNat "add from photos" page and the current default single observation adding page both successfully pull data from that field also.

The time zone thing I don't get since all I'm seeing in the file data is the time offset (-0500), which is correct for COT and CDT. I don't know how they even know what to label the time zone based on the picture data? I just know that it was always somehow labeled correctly before and now it is not using the new page.

These are both such minor issues really though, they don't impact the usability much. I only posted about it because they might be bugs only seen by some people with certain setups. The new page is much improved and so much easier to use overall.

Matthew Muir

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Jun 10, 2016, 1:17:13 PM6/10/16
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I'm trying to add 17 observations and getting the following after I click the submit button: "You appear to be offline. Please try again when you are connected to the Internet." I am connected to the internet. On this page: http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/upload

Anyone else get a message like this, or just me?

Kent McFarland

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Jun 10, 2016, 1:18:33 PM6/10/16
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I actually was getting that same thing last week. I rebooted and it went away. 
Kent

____________________________

Kent McFarland
Vermont Center for Ecostudies
PO Box 420 | Norwich, Vermont 05055
802.649.1431 x2


--

Scott Loarie

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Jun 10, 2016, 1:19:22 PM6/10/16
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I also experienced that once. It seemed to go away on its own. I haven't been able to reproduce it
--
--------------------------------------------------
Scott R. Loarie, Ph.D.
Co-director, iNaturalist.org
California Academy of Sciences
55 Music Concourse Dr
San Francisco, CA 94118
--------------------------------------------------

James Bailey

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Jun 10, 2016, 4:53:53 PM6/10/16
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I noticed removing IDs does not work while you are on the photo screen. I.e. when you click a photo and it brings up the window with the photos and a way to enter IDs. If you make a wrong ID the "delete" button does not actually remove or cross out the ID. I've been in a rut of clicking the wrong name on the list recently because the results list likes jumping around. I usually leave wrong IDs for the sake of education but some are just plain computer mistakes :)

Ken-ichi Ueda

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Jun 10, 2016, 5:26:40 PM6/10/16
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There's no current way to delete identifications from this page, which is a problem, but there's also no "delete" button so I'm not sure what you're referring to there. If you choose the wrong taxon while making an identification, you can change it before you click "Save."

Ken-ichi

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Jun 11, 2016, 4:33:37 PM6/11/16
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Oi, sorry, I got confused. We're talking about the new uploader in
this thread, not the new Identifier tool. You can remove your ID in
the uploader, and, I forgot that we did add the ability to delete your
ID in the new Identifier tool... it just seems to be broken. Sorry for
the misunderstanding.

Scott Buckel

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Jun 12, 2016, 3:39:26 PM6/12/16
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I have gotten that You appear to be offline. Please try again when you are connected to the Internet." message many times this weekend.  If I go to http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/new then I can post with no issues.  I really like the uploader as I enter all of my data in my photo management software, export to a folder and then upload from that folder.
Scott

Patrick Leary

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Jun 13, 2016, 9:36:36 AM6/13/16
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OK Thanks for the report. We'll improve that offline check to make sure it's not falsely reporting users as being offline. If it does happen, I suspect if you wait a few minutes and try again it would work. The main idea of the check is to prevent people from losing work if they start online but are offline when they go to submit, but if the check fails then it's probably more annoying than not having the check - apologies.

- Patrick

James Bailey

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Jun 13, 2016, 12:36:12 PM6/13/16
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I'm the one who got confused, not you, so no need to apologize! This clearly isn't the ID tool thread!

Ken-ichi

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Jun 21, 2016, 3:23:02 PM6/21/16
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Hey everyone,

We just released several updates to the new uploader that I think put
us on the path to having this be the primary means by which people
create observations on the site. To wit:

* you can add observations to projects
* you can add observation fields
* you can add tags
* images are now visible immediately (though some of the metadata
parsing still needs to wait for the image to upload)

We'll make a blog post announcing our intentions and announce it on
the dashboard to try and gain input from a wider audience, as we
discussed earlier in this thread, though feel free to continue
providing feedback here. I think this thing is really coming together.
Also, hats off to Joelle and Patrick for putting this all together.
This was a thorny, complicated tool to assemble from both a design and
engineering perspective.

-ken-ichi

Kent McFarland

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Jun 21, 2016, 3:25:36 PM6/21/16
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Nice work to you and your crew. I am loving this new tool and I have heard from many others the same here in Vermont. 
Best,
Kent

____________________________

Kent McFarland
Vermont Center for Ecostudies
PO Box 420 | Norwich, Vermont 05055
802.649.1431 x2


Andrew Simon

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Jun 21, 2016, 7:30:13 PM6/21/16
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My first impression of the new add observations tool is that it has great potential, though it will require me to habituate...

Right off the bat, though, I am already snagged. I have added a set of observations, filled out all the fields... but the button to 'Submit Observations' is faded and I can't click it.

See attached image.
add_observations.jpg

AfriBats

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Jun 22, 2016, 10:20:31 AM6/22/16
to iNaturalist
Fantastic tool, Keni-ich and others! I noticed that some of the recent updates, tools etc have been featured on the home (dashboard) page - I think that's a terrific idea to inform the wider iNat community, and to get additional feed-back for fine tuning.

Many thanks for all the recent major developments, Jakob

kestrel

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Jun 22, 2016, 3:05:02 PM6/22/16
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Looks like you're running into the same issue I'm having as well. Though the photos now upload right away, it's taking a really really long time to upload all the metadata for some reason. Like, I uploaded my photos 15-20 minutes ago and half of them still say they're uploading metadata, so I can't submit them.

I think the other way was faster - when photos & metadata uploaded together. Any reason it's so much slower this way?

Overall I love the new uploader!

kestrel

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Jun 22, 2016, 3:29:13 PM6/22/16
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After taking a really long time to upload the metadata, the uploader page has now been stuck on "Saving 26 of 26 observations" for ~15 minutes. When I open my observations in a different window, I can see that 25 of the 26 have uploaded. The only thing unusual about the one it isn't uploading is that I put a long-ish note in the "description" field, including an "@" for another user.

I ended up refreshing the page and uploading that observation again separately - didn't seem to have any problems with it that way. So maybe it's the number of images/observations I was uploading at once?

megatherium

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Jun 22, 2016, 3:56:11 PM6/22/16
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I've run into the same issue as Andrew and Kestrel.  What was causing it for me (though sounds like maybe not the case for them) was not waiting long enough for the metadata to import before combining photos into one observation.  So if I drag a bunch of photos over, do something else for a couple minutes while it imports metadata, and then combine the photos into one observation, everything works fine.  But if I combine them as soon as the photos are visible but before "loading metadata" has disappeared, then it says "loading metadata" forever (timed 30 minutes before giving up) and all I can do is delete that observation.  

I have been able to drag 40+ photos over into the upload screen and submit them without any problems, so quantity of photos isn't the issue for me at least.  



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Screen Shot 2016-06-22 at 12.33.42 PM.png

Patrick Leary

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Jun 22, 2016, 4:25:37 PM6/22/16
to iNaturalist
Yep, this bug is confirmed. Looks like if you attempt to drag a photo or merge an observation while it displays "loading metadata" then it can get stuck in the "loading metadata" phase and block the import. I am currently working on a fix and should have something ready soon. Thanks for all the feedback!

- Patrick

Ken-ichi

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Jul 1, 2016, 6:17:26 PM7/1/16
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Ok, we just linked to the uploader from the header menu and the
dashboard. Some other changes:

* "loading metadata" bug has been fixed
* project chooser now shows projects you've joined by default
* ditched the tooltips for now
* the "locality notes" field should not change if you put something custom there
* linked to the old observation form the "More import options" button
* full Mexican Spanish translation

Again, http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/new is still there for
those of your who are adamant about using it. It's also still what we
link to from project pages and taxon pages, and frankly we probably
won't get rid of it until we get around to redesigning the edit page
too. We have not gotten to re-ordering photos within an observation or
re-ordering observations in a batch, but they're on our radar.

Thanks again for all your patience and input, everyone. As far as we
know this is working normally with no bugs, so if you find any please
let us know.

Sam Kieschnick

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Jul 1, 2016, 11:31:14 PM7/1/16
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Hey Ken-ichi,

Thanks for allowing the "old observation form" -- I've gotten into the swing of adding a whole slew of observations one at a time using that form, and it's quite efficient (at least for me). 

I'll play around with the new uploader though too.

Greg Lasley

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Jul 2, 2016, 1:24:37 PM7/2/16
to iNaturalist
OK, this old dog is trying to learn the new tricks and doing OK, surprisingly. I note that @kueda has said that working on the display order of images is "on the radar" so I'll just add I would welcome that as I often will post a certain image 1st which shows the main ID characters, then I add 2nd or 3rd images to illustrate specific points. Thanks, but I do like being able to load a bunch of images at once.

Donald Hobern

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Jul 2, 2016, 5:18:04 PM7/2/16
to iNaturalist
Hi Ken-ichi.

I note that the old observation adding form is now deprecated - is that because there is a real problem with using it, or just to steer us to the new one?  In my case, I add most observations from Flickr and each observation includes multiple images.  I don't seem to have any easy way to do this right now except using the old form.  The photo import from Flickr/Facebook/etc. form (http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/import#photo_import) seems not to give any easy way to include multiple images for an observation.  My ideal would be for you to treat Flickr as an alternative source for images straight into the new uploader interface (http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/upload) and for you to access all relevant metadata from Flickr, with the same options for merging images into a single observation as for locally uploaded images. Is that where you plan to take this?

Thanks,

Donald

On Sat, 2 Jul 2016 at 19:24 Greg Lasley <gla...@earthlink.net> wrote:
OK, this old dog is trying to learn the new tricks and doing OK, surprisingly. I note that @kueda has said that working on the display order of images is "on the radar" so I'll just add I would welcome that as I often will post a certain image 1st which shows the main ID characters, then I add 2nd or 3rd images to illustrate specific points. Thanks, but I do like being able to load a bunch of images at once.

--

Andrew Simon

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Jul 2, 2016, 9:14:41 PM7/2/16
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One thing I find much less efficient about adding observations using the new tool is mapping.

On the old tool I would often find shortcuts by adding a location (ex. Galiano Island, Montague Harbour). More often than not this kind of input would zoom into the map to the area in question and it the whole mapping process would take <5 seconds.

With the new tool, when I 'Search for a Location' and hit 'enter' as I used to, it does nothing.

megatherium

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Jul 2, 2016, 9:34:37 PM7/2/16
to inatu...@googlegroups.com
I think the location lookup on the new uploader is broken again.  I haven't been able to use that feature for the past couple days, either.  

--

Charlie Hohn

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Jul 2, 2016, 10:31:46 PM7/2/16
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Ken-Ichi said they weren't removing the old form in the near future so it should still be working, if it isn't it is probably a bug

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============================
Charlie Hohn
Montpelier, Vermont

Chuck Sexton

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Jul 3, 2016, 11:47:47 AM7/3/16
to iNaturalist
Ken-ichi,

Here's some unexpected news (and an apology):  I now *enjoy* the new /upload page!!  ***As long as I still have access to the previous "/new" page for adding single observations, I can now see the utility (literally) of the upload page.  This came about from my efforts to upload dozens and dozens of plant observations from a recent West Texas trip.  After getting the images all labeled, tagged, etc., in iPhoto, I used the upload page very efficiently for its dedicated purpose.  It does require some manipulation and form filling (photo combining, IDs, personalized locations, descriptions, etc.) but being able to upload multiple observations, including multiple images with a single observation, is clearly a time saver.  I am rightfully embarrassed at my previous negative comments about this avenue; my apologies to you and others for my initial reaction!

One aspect of the behavior of the /upload page that I'd like to see revised:  On my present screen (desktop iMac), the window can display about 6 observations at a time (with more visible by scrolling down).  However, if I have scrolled down to edit the 7th, 8th, etc.--especially after editing the location field--and then return to the full page of observations, it repositions me at the *top* of the set of observations, necessitating a new scroll down to the nth observation I was working on.  Can that "return" be tweeked to return me to that nth observation??

But PLEASE PLEASE keep the previous /new page the same as it was.

Many thanks for the new /upload.  I'm now a believer.

gcwarbler

Colleen Boye

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Jul 4, 2016, 12:11:12 AM7/4/16
to iNaturalist
I can't search for locations. If I enter the location I want in the search bar and hit enter, nothing happens. I'm using Firefox 47.0.1.

On Friday, May 6, 2016 at 1:13:15 PM UTC-7, Ken-ichi Ueda wrote:
Hey folks,

Here's something for you to play with over the weekend:
http://gorilla.inaturalist.org/observations/uploader

Username: preview
Password: 313phant

The slightly longer story: adding observations to iNat is... a mess.
The add obs form has always been one of the most frustrating parts of
the site for a lot of people, so frustrating that these days we
usually just tell people to use the app if they can. Way too much data
entry, especially when most of that information is increasingly
embedded in the photo that you're going to upload anyway. So we redid
it based largely on Flickr's version of the same, which we think is
pretty rad, and the result is what I linked above. We'd love your
feedback, keeping in mind these particulars:

1) We really want this to replace not just
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/upload but also
http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/new, so please let us know if
anything *critical* to your workflow is missing. A lot of things are,
but most can still be added from the observation detail page and the
observation edit page. We're not promising to keep *all* the
functionality from http://www.inaturalist.org/observations/new, since
that page does a lot of niche, weird stuff that only a handful of
people use, but we would like to know who's using what.

2) This is just a test server, nothing you do on gorilla will get
saved to the main site

3) We are planning to add some more batch editing tools, like adding
to projects, but maybe not for the first release.

Many thanks to Joelle and Patrick for doing most of the work on this.
I'm pretty excited to get it out there. For the techies, we're using
Redux, React, and ES6 for the first time, and it's working out pretty
well for us, even though we've kind of bolted them on to the front of
our old-but-sturdy Rails-based ship.

-ken-ichi
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