RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨 Are you sure?
Frank S T Hsiao
This Allen Kuo stinks. I was invited to BATA and then in less than a week he told me that I was discharged from BATA, the reason is that I ask him to resign as “BATA Editor” (who appointed him?) since he lost his neutrality and objectivity in handling the postings.
Later, he could not answer my three questions which he still owes me to answer. See below. This was my last correspondence with him before he shut my access to his BATA. Apparently he is try to shirk my questions. That is the problem. With such a dictatorial and arbitrary handling of “his” BATA, what kind of 建國 he is talking about? Big mouth. His version of 建國 and control of the freedom of speech should be denounced and condemned.
As I am also a “doctor,” I think I can diagnose Allen’s sickness. But I like to wait his reply. Anybody from BATA, including Johnson Wang, can help him answer my questions too, as I am afraid you guys are also infested with the same disease. Hello, what is your say?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I THINK YOU ARE CONFUSING AND ACCUSING A WRONG PERSON. See my capital letters:
From: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Kuo
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:18 PM
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [BATA] Re: 合作對抗國民黨不能只靠民進黨
Dear Frank:
團結的先決條件是共識. 從內心深處發出的 “共識” 很重要.
I AGREE
像你一樣整天在網上罵人不團結以及羞辱他人,
SURPRISED, SURPRISED. DID I DO THIS? I DON’T THINK SO. PLEASE GIVE ME EXAMPLES AND LET ME SEE WHAT WENT WRONG.
要產生出真正的共識, 是絕不可能的. 罵人不團結或羞辱他人, 只會讓他人產生強烈的反感, 從而製造出更多的敵人. I AGREE. I SAID I USE STRONG WORDS ONLY WHEN THE OTHER SIDE DO NOT ADMIT WRONG DOING. TELL ME WHERE I MADE SUCH A THING, AND WHAT WENT WRONG WITH ME.
目前台派的共識是大家要共同努力合作對抗國民黨. ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU
但是行進的方向絕不能雞蛋全放在 DPP
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY 方向? THE 方向 SHOULD BE 對抗國民黨, AND AS A MEANS TO 對抗國民黨, THE ONLY WAY TO DEPOSE OFF KMT IS DPP. OTHER THAN DPP, WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO? DON’T TELL ME KONGTOU, THAT IS DEADEND UNDER KMT; DON’T TELL ME YOU WILL PICK UP A GUN TO FIGHT ALSO. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. AND DON’T TELLL ME VOTING FOR HUANG, WHAT IS THE NAME OF HUANG PARTY? HOW MANY FOLLOWERS DOES SHE HAVE?
TELL ME YOUR STRATEGY PLEASE. AND PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION.
一個籃子裏. 必須多管道行進. 郭正典 (CD Kuo) 在千日守夜中的演說道出了這重點.
公投護台灣聯盟立法院─千日守夜：張葉森、郭正典 -- 台灣建國不能只靠民進黨
YES, 台灣建國不能只靠民進黨. BUT WE ARE NOT YET TALKING ABOUT 台灣建國 AT PRESENT TIME. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT THE TAIWANESE GETTING OUT OF THE COLONIAL REGIME FIRST. AND TO DO SO, YOU CAN ONLY DEPEND ON 靠民進黨. WHAT ELESE DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DO? ANSWER MY QUESTION.
Allen Kuo
From: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank S T Hsiao
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 8:48 PM
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com; 'John Yu'
Cc: 'Allen Kuo'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; eastgat...@aol.com; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; ik...@yahoo.com; 'I Love Taiwan'; jsh...@mytronics.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; 'Eugene Yeh'; rocky...@yahoo.com; sand...@mliusa.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; sl...@schlin.com; tim...@pacbell.net; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw
Subject: RE: [BATA] Re: 合作對抗國民黨
Now, Johnson is calling for 合作, of course we should, and he answered my question in different word. But, there is some different nuance. 合作 should also “團結”. 團結 to support DPP. All the green and non-green voters should 團結 (unite, not split) to vote for DPP. So, for the next months, 團結 is the method, 合作對抗國民黨 is the objective.
From: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Johnson C Wang
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 1:43 PM
To: John Yu
Cc: Allen Kuo; america...@gmail.com; bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com; borc...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; eastgat...@aol.com; eli...@hotmail.com; Gordon Liu; ik...@yahoo.com; I Love Taiwan; jsh...@mytronics.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; Eugene Yeh; rocky...@yahoo.com; sand...@mliusa.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; sl...@schlin.com; tim...@pacbell.net; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw
Subject: [BATA] Re: 合作對抗國民黨
對, >> 大家合作對抗國民黨。
We should do all we can to help those Taiwan-loving Taiwanese LY candidates to get elected.
With a majority Taiwan-loving Taiwanese in LY, we can restrain Ma/KMT's unification projects.
J. Wang
From: John Yu <joh...@yahoo.com>
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com, Eugene Yeh <pea...@sbcglobal.net>, Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>
Cc: I Love Taiwan <i_love...@googlegroups.com>, ik...@yahoo.com, america...@gmail.com, borc...@yahoo.com, Johnson...@aero.org, rocky...@yahoo.com, sl...@schlin.com, eastgat...@aol.com, jsh...@mytronics.com, sidn...@sbcglobal.net, cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw, tkt...@ntu.edu.tw, tim...@pacbell.net, sand...@mliusa.com, charg...@yahoo.com, mom...@sbcglobal.net, eli...@hotmail.com, Gordon Liu <gwoch...@yahoo.com>
Date: 07/21/2011 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: 合作對抗國民黨
|
From: I-Kuan Lin [mailto:ik...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 4:47 PM
To: David Huang
Cc: I Love Taiwan; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; Gordon Liu; ts...@ortpatent.com; Frank S T Hsiao; Ted Lau; alle...@timebyte.com; Mei Yeh; Eugene Yeh; sl...@schlin.com; Sidney Chen; heng-fu hsu
Subject: Re: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨
各位台灣派先進：
首先，我要肯定郭英仁君數年來獨力經營 bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com 之貢獻，至少我們因爲用過這個“媒體”才磨出一些比較認真的意見。但是，二，三年前，我就在電話上和郭君談我對論壇式媒體應該如何經營的一些看法，包括：1），電子信群組不是任何論壇的適當通訊網。 （請參考 wikipedia article on Godwin's Law; 2)， 論壇必須有具公信力的編輯部。編輯部的責任之一就是擬定有建設性的發言規則，並切實執行；3）， 台灣派的論壇是我們爲了採取公民行動的溝通管道之一；編輯部的另一個責任是在凝聚共識以利於推動公民行動；台灣派善於論述的人大有人在，我輩何必吃飽湊沒閑？
郭君未得灣區台美人社團之允許，就擅自用 bay-area-taiwanese-american 這個名稱，是不對的。
假如大家認爲建立一個灣區台灣派的論壇是必要的，那麽我建議來好好進行。
多謝指教。
林義寬
From: David Huang <davidhu...@gmail.com>
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: I Love Taiwan <i_love...@googlegroups.com>; ik...@yahoo.com; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; Gordon Liu <gwoch...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 12:16:04 PM
Subject: Re: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨
I think the majority of the silent readers agree with
Eugene's comments : 這種整天鼓動泛綠自相殘殺的言論務必要警戒，也不符合BATA的規定(難道這是Editor心中的台灣文化嗎?)。(看來，規定是訂來限制異議者的言論，訂規定者和Editor不受此限。)
David
2011/7/21 Eugene Yeh <pea...@sbcglobal.net>
heng-fu hsu
| In my previous 3 posting on this issue, I tried to make available ladder that the needy can use it,. Someone out there might be close enough to Allen that can talk to him directly on this. Like Eunice, I do think BATA is a kind of established name. I think BATA belongs to all it's members(People's Republic of XXXXX , never belong to people, we all know), however, I don't know if there were any articles, bylaw , registeration, of this body, ie, is it officially exist? If Allen is wise enough, he really can use this situation to enhance the value of BATA's existance, to benefit Bay area Taiwanican, in turn all the people in Taiwan, in the meantime he can reduce it's value to almost zero( to people of Taiwan.) IK dreams to launch TUF, not materized yet, now might be a good opportunity to bring about
seriously. Those of you that are willing , able and ready should get in touch with IK. The only trouble is that we can't afford too much time to spend on these things. The most pressing issue is to expose the real characters of KMT(the identical twins of CCP) and all the evil deeds against Taiwanican in the past 65 years and where 4 more years of K/Ma in power will Taiwan be lead to, hence we can unseat K/Ma in January election. hh --- On Wed, 7/27/11, Frank S T Hsiao <frank...@Colorado.EDU> wrote: |
Tsao, Rocky
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:42 AM
To: 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; Tsao, Rocky; 'Ted Lau'; alle...@timebyte.com; 'Mei Yeh'; 'Eugene Yeh'; sl...@schlin.com; 'Sidney Chen'; 'heng-fu hsu'; 'natpa_forum'
Subject: RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨 Are you sure?
Sidney Chen
Another way of expression is:
Every social or politcia campaign has its marekting factor as for recruitng people to your side. --- On Wed, 7/27/11, Tsao, Rocky <Ts...@ortpatent.com> wrote: |
Tsao, Rocky
From: Sidney Chen [mailto:sidn...@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:52 PM
To: 'Frank S T Hsiao'; 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'; Tsao, Rocky
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; 'Mei Yeh'; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; 'Ted Lau'; alle...@timebyte.com; 'Eugene Yeh'; 'heng-fu hsu'; 'natpa_forum'
Sidney Chen
先學會當好的人 ==> How to deal with the people around you is what I mean. In modern words, I call it 'marketing"!
Sorry, Rocky, your brain is like stone, Sigh!!!! Maybe that is why you choose that name 'Rocky". |
Tsao, Rocky
Shin Liu
Sigh!!!
Shin
From: "Tsao, Rocky" <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
To: Sidney Chen <sidn...@sbcglobal.net>; Frank S T Hsiao <frank...@Colorado.EDU>; I-Kuan Lin <ik...@yahoo.com>; David Huang <davidhu...@gmail.com>
Cc: I Love Taiwan <i_love...@googlegroups.com>; "america...@gmail.com" <america...@gmail.com>; "borc...@yahoo.com" <borc...@yahoo.com>; "Johnson...@aero.org" <Johnson...@aero.org>; "rocky...@yahoo.com" <rocky...@yahoo.com>; "sl...@schlin.com" <sl...@schlin.com>; "eastgat...@aol.com" <eastgat...@aol.com>; "jsh...@mytronics.com" <jsh...@mytronics.com>; "cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw" <cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw>; "tkt...@ntu.edu.tw" <tkt...@ntu.edu.tw>; "tim...@pacbell.net" <tim...@pacbell.net>; "sand...@mliusa.com" <sand...@mliusa.com>; "joh...@yahoo.com" <joh...@yahoo.com>; "charg...@yahoo.com" <charg...@yahoo.com>; Mei Yeh <mom...@sbcglobal.net>; "eli...@hotmail.com" <eli...@hotmail.com>; Gordon Liu <gwoch...@yahoo.com>; Ted Lau <tedl...@gmail.com>; "alle...@timebyte.com" <alle...@timebyte.com>; Eugene Yeh <pea...@sbcglobal.net>; heng-fu hsu <hhs...@yahoo.com>; natpa_forum <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, July 27, 2011 10:54:30 AM
Subject: [I Love Taiwan] RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨 Are you sure?
請隨時 造訪我們的網站 http://groups.google.com/group/i_love_taiwan
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/i_love_taiwan
若要退訂此論壇，請送電子郵件給 i_love_taiwa...@googlegroups.com 標題及本文空白就可.
To unsubscribe from this group, please send email to i_love_taiwa...@googlegroups.com
You can leave Subject and Body blank.
Tsao, Rocky
From: Shin Liu [mailto:shi...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:28 PM
To: Tsao, Rocky; Sidney Chen; Frank S T Hsiao; I-Kuan Lin; David Huang
Cc: I Love Taiwan; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; Mei Yeh; eli...@hotmail.com; Gordon Liu; Ted Lau; alle...@timebyte.com; Eugene Yeh; heng-fu hsu; natpa_forum
Frank S T Hsiao
No, but Rocky, take it easy and be alert.
“marketing” includes marketing by the fifth columns and outright traitors to sell the distorted logics of kmt and ccp to the green camp. “Consumers beware!” Is Marketing 101.
--
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Frank S T Hsiao
This JW again. Andy Yang could not answer my questions and said he also delete my questions. Good for you no o chin chin guys. No excuse necessary.
If you cannot defend yourself, just shut up and fade away, or acknowledge that you have no defense, then correct your thinking, or even “ponder” what went wrong (I will do so), and work harder for Taiwan. By the way, I never delete any mail, since even a stupid message will improve my thinking and reasoning. I am still a student trying to learn!
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Johnson C Wang
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:37 PM
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: alle...@timebyte.com; america...@gmail.com; bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com; borc...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; 'David Huang'; eastgat...@aol.com; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Frank S T Hsiao'; 'Gordon Liu'; 'heng-fu hsu'; 'I-Kuan Lin'; joh...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; 'natpa_forum'; 'Eugene Yeh'; rocky...@yahoo.com; sand...@mliusa.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; sl...@schlin.com; 'Ted Lau'; tim...@pacbell.net; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; ts...@ortpatent.com
Subject: [NATPA Forum] RE: [BATA] ??????? Are you sure?
Johnny Hsieh (JH) asked >> May I (JH) ask you (J. Wang) that, under your leadership, your wife and your children, if they
are teenagers or older, see eye to eye with you all the time, every time?
JW answers: NO, we don't see " eye to eye " at all.
We hold "hand to hand", kiss "mouth to cheek" or "mouth to mouth".
And, with my wife, we do more ...
J. Wang
PS: The e-mails of FH and JH are in general DOA (deleted on arrival). I read this e-mail of JH because some one brought it to my attention just a few minutes ago:Johnny Hsieh has just posted a long message which also mentioned Johnson in I Love Taiwan Forum:
From: "Johnny Shieh" <jsh...@mytronics.com>
To: "'Frank S T Hsiao'" <frank...@Colorado.EDU>, "'I-Kuan Lin'" <ik...@yahoo.com>, "'David Huang'" <davidhu...@gmail.com>, <bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "'I Love Taiwan'" <i_love...@googlegroups.com>, <america...@gmail.com>, <borc...@yahoo.com>, <Johnson...@aero.org>, <rocky...@yahoo.com>, <sl...@schlin.com>, <eastgat...@aol.com>, <sidn...@sbcglobal.net>, <cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw>, <tkt...@ntu.edu.tw>, <tim...@pacbell.net>, <sand...@mliusa.com>, <joh...@yahoo.com>, <charg...@yahoo.com>, <mom...@sbcglobal.net>, <eli...@hotmail.com>, "'Gordon Liu'" <gwoch...@yahoo.com>, <ts...@ortpatent.com>, "'Ted Lau'" <tedl...@gmail.com>, <alle...@timebyte.com>, "'Mei Yeh'" <mom...@sbcglobal.net>, "'Eugene Yeh'" <pea...@sbcglobal.net>, <sl...@schlin.com>, "'Sidney Chen'" <sidn...@sbcglobal.net>, "'heng-fu hsu'" <hhs...@yahoo.com>, "'natpa_forum'" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 07/27/2011 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: [BATA] ??????? Are you sure?
Sent by: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Hey Frank,
I fully share your frustration with you. However, if you don't mind I would
like to use this response to address some issues you and others raised in
the past few weeks.
1. The premise of unity is consensus from the bottom of the heart: Yes,
there is compelling consensus out there, loud and clear, which is that
Taiwan pan-green camp has to win this general election. Even you want to
shoot the moon, you still need to build your launching vehicle from ground
up. Winning elections for both presidency and LY are the first step to
catapult to your goals such as civil referendum and re-writing your
constitution, and finally your last goal to establish your dreamed
statehood. Without this first step, your dream is just a dream and your
dream becomes quixotic.
2. You cannot put all your eggs in one basket: Sound like a quant jock if
you know what I mean. I don't quite understand what it meant. My
interpretation is that, correct me if I am wrong, something to with
Professor Tsai's sit-in movement. It is fine with me if his movement can
enhance each other's morale, and boost a momentum for the pan-green's
election. Otherwise, he could become public enemy number one in the
pan-green. Based on his manifesto of not attacking DPP, I don't see the
latter could happen.
3. 黃越綏 issue: Personally, I don't believe that she can collect 250,000
signatures, to be qualified as a presidential candidate, without Ma's help.
She even admitted that she wished collecting 150,000 signatures at most.
So, friends, relax, sit back, sip your afternoon tea, and listen to bird
singing outside your window.
4. Person observation: Interestingly, there is nobody from officials of
the DPP Silicone Valley branch coming out to defend DPP in general, and its
chairperson in particular, even though both have been attacked from right,
from left, from top and from bottom. My interpretations are:
a. The discussions from this forum are so meaningless that it is not
worth for him to say anything. Catherine is the only one to stress the
importance of the election with fits and starts.
b. Perhaps Allen Kuo, Johnson Wang and Vive Taiwan are right that DPP
is so disintegrated that each faction goes its own way. Worse, chairperson
Tsai provides no leadership what so ever. As a result, DPP members in the
bay area are no exception but not support DPP and its candidates. If this
is the case, I can understand the stand they take. But for those who are
not DPP members are willing to stick out their heads to defend DPP look very
stupid. Do you agree, DPP members?
5. This one is for Johnson Wang: You said of unity is based on the
leadership. From my observation, you are such a person with strong
personality, you got to rule the roost in your family. Even that, may I
ask you that, under your leadership, your wife and your children, if they
are teenagers or older, see eye to eye with you all the time, every time?
If no, then there is no unity in your family? But I am pretty sure that
you have a harmonious and happy family. God bless you.
Johnny Shieh
_____
From: Frank S T Hsiao [
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:42 PM
To: 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com;
Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com;
eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net;
cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net;
sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com;
mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; ts...@ortpatent.com;
'Ted Lau'; alle...@timebyte.com; 'Mei Yeh'; 'Eugene Yeh'; sl...@schlin.com;
'Sidney Chen'; 'heng-fu hsu'; 'natpa_forum'
Subject: RE: [BATA] ??????? Are you sure?
建國 he is talking about? Big mouth. His version of 建國 and
_____
Dear Eugene,
拜讀你給 Mr. Allen Kuo 的回應，感受良多，謝謝你的內心話。
善良的台灣人啊 ! 內鬨 (?) 內行、外鬨 (?) 外行。就是因為台灣人有這種傳統、近
年來有些人把北加州台美人社區搞得四分五裂、最得意的果實不會屬于台美人社區任何
個人或團体、必屬于那隻黑手 - 國民黨海工會或它的同路人 。
希望大家合作對抗國民黨。
Thanks,
John
--- On Thu, 7/21/11, Eugene Yeh <pea...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Eugene Yeh <pea...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: 合作對抗國民黨
tkt...@ntu.edu.tw, tim...@pacbell.net, sand...@mliusa.com, johnpyu@yahoo.
本人很不想說下列的話，但又非說不可。
請別再"笨"了(非"別太理想了")。政黨非慈善機構，那個政黨可以完全不以政治為
_____
From: David Huang <davidhu...@gmail.com>
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: I Love Taiwan <i_love...@googlegroups.com>; ik...@yahoo.com;
america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org;
rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com;
jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw;
tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; johnpyu@yahoo.
com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; Gordon
Liu <gwoch...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 12:16:04 PM
Subject: Re: [BATA]
合作對抗國民黨
I think the majority of the silent readers agree with
Eugene's comments : 這種整天鼓動泛綠自相殘殺的言論務必要警戒，也不符合BATA的
規定(難道這是Editor心中的台灣文化嗎?)。(看來，規定是訂來限制異議者的言論，訂
規定者和Editor不受此限。)
David
2011/7/21 Eugene Yeh <pea...@sbcglobal.net>
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3790 - Release Date: 07/26/11
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Frank S T Hsiao
Thank you for your comments. Sorry I missed your posting. As usual I would use the capital letters to convey my comments more effectively. I completely agree with your first two points, disagree with the third point, and I have questions on the fourth point.
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Johnny Shieh
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:57 AM
To: 'Frank S T Hsiao'; 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'; bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; ts...@ortpatent.com; 'Ted Lau'; alle...@timebyte.com; 'Mei Yeh'; 'Eugene Yeh'; sl...@schlin.com; 'Sidney Chen'; 'heng-fu hsu'; 'natpa_forum'
Subject: [NATPA Forum] RE: [BATA] ??????? Are you sure?
Hey Frank,
I fully share your frustration with you. However, if you don't mind I would like to use this response to address some issues you and others raised in the past few weeks.
1. The premise of unity is consensus from the bottom of the heart: Yes, there is compelling consensus out there, loud and clear, which is that Taiwan pan-green camp has to win this general election. Even you want to shoot the moon, you still need to build your launching vehicle from ground up. Winning elections for both presidency and LY are the first step to catapult to your goals such as civil referendum and re-writing your constitution, and finally your last goal to establish your dreamed statehood. Without this first step, your dream is just a dream and your dream becomes quixotic. I COMPLETELY AND UNQUESTIONABLY AGREE WITH YOU. THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKING AND INSISTING, AND THAT IS WHAT I WANT ALLEN AND HIS COHORT TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND NOT TO CONTINUOUSLY DENOUNCING DPP.
2. You cannot put all your eggs in one basket: Sound like a quant jock if you know what I mean. I don't quite understand what it meant. My interpretation is that, correct me if I am wrong, something to with Professor Tsai's sit-in movement. It is fine with me if his movement can enhance each other's morale, and boost a momentum for the pan-green's election. Otherwise, he could become public enemy number one in the pan-green. Based on his manifesto of not attacking DPP, I don't see the latter could happen. I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU. KONGTOU SHOULD HELP DPP NOT TO DETRACT DPP, AND AQUIA ALREADY SAID THAT HE WILL NOT DENOUNCE, DISCREDIT DPP, THAT IS VERY COMMANDABLE.
3. 黃越綏 issue: Personally, I don't believe that she can collect 250,000 signatures, to be qualified as a presidential candidate, without Ma's help. She even admitted that she wished collecting 150,000 signatures at most. So, friends, relax, sit back, sip your afternoon tea, and listen to bird singing outside your window. NO,NOT SO FAST. IF I WERE A KMT STRATEGIST, I WOULD DEFINITLY HELP HUANG TO GET THE 250K SIGNATURES. BESIDES, ELECTION NEEDS MONEY, MONEY AND MONEY. THE KMT WILL SUPPORT HER WITH ALL THE VOTES AND MONEY. AT THE END, DO YOU THINK SHE CAN WITHDROW? DO YOU THINK HER SUPPORTERS WILL AGREE TO VOTE FOR DPP? AND DO YOU THINK THE FINANCIAL SUPPORTERS WILL STEP BACK? DON’T YOU THINK YOUR EXPECTATION IS UNREASONABLE AND DANGEROUS?
4. Person observation: Interestingly, there is nobody from officials of the DPP Silicone Valley branch coming out to defend DPP in general THAT IS SAD, MAY BE YOUR OPPSITION TO DPP IS SO STRONG THAT THEY FELL YOU GUYS ARE NO HOPE, and its chairperson in particular, even though both have been attacked from right, from left, from top and from bottom IF YOU KNOW HOW THE ELECTION CAMPAGN IS DONE IN THE USA, ESPECIALLY THE NEGATIVE ONES, THAT IS RULE RATHER THAN EXCEPTION. WHAT YOU GUYS SHOULD DO IS JUST STOP THE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN FOR DPP.
My interpretations are:
a. The discussions from this forum are so meaningless that it is not worth for him to say anything. Catherine is the only one to stress the importance of the election with fits and starts. I DON’T UNDERSTAND THIS PART. WHO IS “HIM”? WHO IS “CATHERINE”? SINCE I DON’T RECEIVE MESSAGES FROM BATA, I HAVE NO IDEA.
BUT I CAN SAY THAT WE SHOULD SUPPORT DPP BECAUSE DPP IS THE ONLY LOCAL TAIWANESE PARTY WHICH CAN REPLACE THE COLONIAL REGIME AND COLONIAL MASTERS. PERIOD. THE OBJECT OF A POLITICAL PARTY IS TO WIN THE ELECTION, JUST LIKE THE PURPOSE OF THE BRANCO FOOTBALL TEAM IS TO WIN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. SHOULDN’T WE SUPPORT BRANCO FOR THAT PURPOSE?
IF YOU SAY DPP HAVE TOO MANY FRACTIONS AND CONSTANTLY BICKERING EACH OTHER, THAT IS IRRELEVANT (THIS IS TO RAYMOND LEE’S POSTING IN BATA. I LOST THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISPUTE HIM SINCE MY MESSAGE IS BLOCKED). TELL ME, WHICH POLITICAL PARTY IN THIS WORLD DO NOT HAVE FRACTIONS AND CONSTANTLY BICKERING? HOW ABOUT THE CURRENT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN DC (ARE YOU WATCHING THE DRAMA IN DC RECENTLY)? HOW ABOUT JAPAN’S POLITICAL PARTY? OR EVEN KMT? YES, IT IS LAMENTABLE THAT DPP HAS TOO MANY FRACTIONS, BUT WE DO NOT CRITISIZE THEM HARSHLY TO THE EXTENT OF ALIANATING THE VOTERS.
b. Perhaps Allen Kuo, Johnson Wang and Vive Taiwan are right that DPP is so disintegrated that each faction goes its own way.
THAT IS A SAD OBSERVATION. BUT WHY DO YOU SAY DPP IS DISINTEGRATED? I DON’T THINK SO. I THOUGHT HSIEH AND SU ARE ALL SUPPORTING ET AND KEEP THEIR OBJECTIONS TO ET’S POLICY TO THE MINIMUM.
Worse, chairperson Tsai provides no leadership what so ever. NO, SHE IS JUST DOING FINE, AND DOING A GREAT JOB UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. WHAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP ARE YOU EXPECTING FROM HER? PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION.
As a result, DPP members in the bay area are no exception but not support DPP and its candidates. OK, SO IF YOU DON’T SUPPORT HER, WHOM ARE YOU GOING TO SUPPORT TO DISLODGE THE COLONIAL REGIME AND COLONIAL MASTERS IF YOU STILL CLAIM YOU ARE PATRIOTIC? ANSWER MY QUESTION.
If this is the case, I can understand the stand they take. NO, I SIMPLY CAN NOT UNDERSTAND AT ALL. I WOULD SAY THEY ARE BRAIN WASHED BY KMT AND CCP, OR SIMPLY THE FIFTH COLUMNS.
But for those who are not DPP members are willing to stick out their heads to defend DPP look very stupid. DON’T YOU THINK IT IS EVEN MORE STUPID NOT TO SUPPORT DPP AND WISH FOR TI? DON’T YOU THINK YOU ARE MORE STUPID HOPING TO ACHIEVE TI BY VOTING FOR KMT?
OK, WHAT IS YOUR WAY TO GET OUT OF THIS? THAT IS WHAT I AM ASKING ALLEN KUO. YOU CAN ANSWER TOO.
Do you agree, DPP members? THIS QUESTION IS NOT CLEAR. BUT IF YOU ARE ASKING WHETHER I AM A DPP MEMBER, NO, I AM NOT A DPP MEMBER, NOT IN THE PAST, NOT IN THE FUTURE, I AM JUST TRYING HARD TO PROMOTE TI. ARE YOU?
5. This one is for Johnson Wang: You said of unity is based on the leadership. From my observation, you are such a person with strong personality, you got to rule the roost in your family. Even that, may I ask you that, under your leadership, your wife and your children, if they are teenagers or older, see eye to eye with you all the time, every time? If no, then there is no unity in your family? But I am pretty sure that you have a harmonious and happy family. God bless you.
strong personality ? I TAKE IT AS “A DEAD DUCK HARD BEAK” JUST DON’T HAVE THE STRATEGY TO WIN TI BUT SPREADING FALSE LOGICS (A CHICKEN ONLY CAN POO POO AND NO EGGS, AS THE TAIWANESE SAYING SAYS).
“unity is based on the leadership”? AS A GENERAL PRINCIPLE, IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE. I CAN ARGUE BOTH WAYS. BUT SINCE IT COMES FROM THE MOUTH OF JW, AND I KNOW JW IS A DETRACTOR. I WILL SAY THAT IT IS DUMB TO SAY SO. WHY NOT “LEADERSHIP IS BASED ON UNITY?” A LEADER NEEDS SUPPORT FROM THE FOLLOWERS TO LEAD, AND IF FOLLOWERS LIKE JW AND AK AND THEIR COHORT CONSTANTLY CRITICIZE, PICKING BONE OF THE LEADER, HOW CAN A LEADER LEAD? THAT WHY I SAID THOSE DUMB PEOPLE JUST FOLLOW THE LEADER, NO QUESTION ASKED. THEN A LEADER WILL BE THE LEADER.
BY THE WAY, WHO IS A “PERFECT LEADER” IN THIS WORLD? A “LEADER” BECOMES A LEADER ONLY AFTER THE LEADER DIES. IF YOU ARE CONSTANTLY LOOKING A LIVE PERFECT LEADER OR HERO, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN FIND ONE IS DICTOATORS LIKE HITLER, MOU, CCK AND STALIN. USING THE LACK OF LEADER TO DENOUNCE DPP IN THE DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY IS NOT ONLY STUPID, IT IS ALSO DIVISIVE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
Johnny Shieh
From: Frank S T Hsiao [mailto:frank...@Colorado.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:42 PM
To: 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; ts...@ortpatent.com; 'Ted Lau'; alle...@timebyte.com; 'Mei Yeh'; 'Eugene Yeh'; sl...@schlin.com; 'Sidney Chen'; 'heng-fu hsu'; 'natpa_forum'
Subject: RE: [BATA] ??????? Are you sure?
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3790 - Release Date: 07/26/11
--
heng-fu hsu
| Our guys are still struggling PITfully(oh well, some seem to enjoy doing just that) deep inside the deep PIT they dug for pan greeners, climb out and chase enemy now. Offence is the best,,, HH --- On Wed, 7/27/11, Frank S T Hsiao <frank...@Colorado.EDU> wrote: |
Tsao, Rocky
To: Tsao, Rocky; 'Sidney Chen'; 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; 'Mei Yeh'; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; 'Ted Lau'; alle...@timebyte.com; 'Eugene Yeh'; 'heng-fu hsu'; 'natpa_forum'
heng-fu hsu
| 是主動出擊使K/Ma窮於應戰而不是深陷於永無止境不會有結論的爭議的時刻了！這場地使人看見許多愛台人士們都辯材無礙、如果努力的目的在於証明自己的辯材礙, 其實目的己達成、大家己經看到了！今後所有的力量、連吃奶的力量都應使在擊追敵人上！曝露K/Ma偽善, 欺騙, 邪惡, 貪腐, 黑金, 綁樁, 惡毒的本質使台民体認冷漠不做為的後果是被併失自由要有趣得多、也重要得多、不是嗎？有時當聽老人言才不致吃大虧！ |
Tsao, Rocky
From: heng-fu hsu [mailto:hhs...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:05 AM
To: 'Frank S T Hsiao'; 'Sidney Chen'; 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'; Tsao, Rocky
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; 'Mei Yeh'; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; 'Ted Lau'; alle...@timebyte.com; 'Eugene Yeh'; 'natpa_forum'; alle...@timebyte.com
heng-fu hsu
--- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tsao, Rocky <Ts...@ortpatent.com> wrote:
From: Tsao, Rocky <Ts...@ortpatent.com>
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨 Are you sure?
To: "'heng-fu hsu'" <hhs...@yahoo.com>, "'Frank S T Hsiao'" <frank...@Colorado.EDU>, "'Sidney Chen'" <sidn...@sbcglobal.net>, "'I-Kuan Lin'" <ik...@yahoo.com>, "'David Huang'" <davidhu...@gmail.com>
Cc: "'I Love Taiwan'" <i_love...@googlegroups.com>, "america...@gmail.com" <america...@gmail.com>, "borc...@yahoo.com" <borc...@yahoo.com>, "Johnson...@aero.org" <Johnson...@aero.org>, "rocky...@yahoo.com" <rocky...@yahoo.com>, "sl...@schlin.com" <sl...@schlin.com>, "eastgat...@aol.com" <eastgat...@aol.com>, "jsh...@mytronics.com" <jsh...@mytronics.com>, "cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw" <cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw>, "tkt...@ntu.edu.tw" <tkt...@ntu.edu.tw>, "tim...@pacbell.net" <tim...@pacbell.net>, "sand...@mliusa.com" <sand...@mliusa.com>, "joh...@yahoo.com" <joh...@yahoo.com>, "charg...@yahoo.com" <charg...@yahoo.com>, "'Mei Yeh'" <mom...@sbcglobal.net>, "eli...@hotmail.com" <eli...@hotmail.com>, "'Gordon Liu'" <gwoch...@yahoo.com>, "'Ted Lau'" <tedl...@gmail.com>, "alle...@timebyte.com" <alle...@timebyte.com>, "'Eugene Yeh'" <pea...@sbcglobal.net>, "'natpa_forum'" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>,
"alle...@timebyte.com" <alle...@timebyte.com>
Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 11:13 AM
Multi-tasking!
From: heng-fu hsu [mailto:hhs...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:05 AM
To: 'Frank S T
Hsiao'; 'Sidney Chen'; 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'; Tsao, Rocky
Cc: 'I
Love Taiwan'; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com;
Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com;
eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw;
tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com;
charg...@yahoo.com; 'Mei Yeh'; eli...@hotmail.com; 'Gordon Liu'; 'Ted Lau';
alle...@timebyte.com; 'Eugene Yeh'; 'natpa_forum';
alle...@timebyte.com
Subject: RE: [NATPA Forum] RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨
Are you sure?
是主動出擊使K/Ma窮於應戰而不是深陷於永無止境不會有結論的爭議的時刻了！這場地使人看見許多愛台人士們都辯材無礙、如果努力的目的在於証明自己的辯材無礙, 其實目的己達成、大家己經看到了！今後所有的力量、連吃奶的力量都應使在擊追敵人上！曝露K/Ma偽善, 欺騙, 邪惡, 貪腐, 黑金, 綁樁, 惡毒的本質使台民体認冷漠不做為的後果是被併失自由要有趣得多、也重要得多、不是嗎？有時當聽老人言才不致吃大虧！
J. Wang
假如大家認爲建立一個灣區台灣派的論壇是必要的，那麽我建議來好好進行。
多謝指教。
林義寬
Tsao, Rocky
Bad analogy.
Cultural reform might slow down a bit before critical elections. However, it should never grind to a halt.
"要先學會當好的人, 才能當好的台灣人" is a lessen we should keep in mind at all times.
Sidney Chen
Rocky:
I really do not know why you drew such an offensive accusation. Please not to provoke any further bitter argument. What is my agenda that you refer to?
email is like water which can float and merge the boat. We do not know each other therefore please constrain your wording. What the heck do I know your habit of using "sigh!!!"? That is nothing to do with my sensitivity.
Sidney |
Tsao, Rocky
To: 'Frank S T Hsiao'; 'I-Kuan Lin'; 'David Huang'; Tsao, Rocky
Sidney Chen
|
CP Yeh
To be more precise, "Tsai yesterday was quoted by a blue pro-China newspaper very angry because ...... "
In response to that "quote" DPP has already made the clarification:
陳其邁：昨天是在開放自由輕鬆的氣氛中進行討論，也沒有蔡英文發飆的情況產生。
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/110728/135/2vvlr.html
So, the question is: Which report we Taiwanese chose to believe?
I am also wondering how the blue reporters knew what were happened in a DPP closed door meeting?
--
Matt Lu
The question should be "Why should we believe or anything quoted by a blue pro-China newspaper and use them to support their argument
Matt
要產生出真正的共識, 是絕 不可能的. 罵人 不團結或羞辱他人, 只會 讓他人產生強烈的反感, 從而 製造出更多的敵人. I AGREE. I SAID I USE STRONG WORDS ONLY WHEN THE OTHER SIDE DO NOT ADMIT WRONG DOING. TELL ME WHERE I MADE SUCH A THING, AND WHAT WENT WRONG WITH ME.
目前台派的共識是大家要共同努力合作對抗國民 黨. ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU
但是行進的方向絕不能雞蛋全放在 DPP
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY 方向? THE 方向 SHOULD BE 對抗國民黨, AND AS A MEANS TO 對抗國民黨, THE ONLY WAY TO DEPOSE OFF KMT IS DPP. OTHER THAN DPP, WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO? DON’T TELL ME KONGTOU, THAT IS DEADEND UNDER KMT; DON’T TELL ME YOU WILL PICK UP A GUN TO FIGHT ALSO. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE. AND DON’T TELLL ME VOTING FOR HUANG, WHAT IS THE NAME OF HUANG PARTY? HOW MANY FOLLOWERS DOES SHE HAVE?
TELL ME YOUR STRATEGY PLEASE. AND PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION.
一個籃子裏. 必須 多管道行進. 郭正 典 (CD Kuo) 在千 日守夜中的演說道出了這重點.
公投護台灣聯盟立法院─千日守夜：張葉森、郭正典 -- 台灣建國不能只靠民進黨
YES, 台灣 建國不能只靠民進黨. BUT WE ARE NOT YET TALKING ABOUT 台灣建國 AT PRESENT TIME. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT THE TAIWANESE GETTING OUT OF THE COLONIAL REGIME FIRST. AND TO DO SO, YOU CAN ONLY DEPEND ON 靠民進黨. WHAT ELESE DO YOU THINK YOU CAN DO? ANSWER MY QUESTION.
請別再"笨"了(非"別太理想了")。政黨非慈善機構，那個政黨可以完全不以政治為考量，如同每個國家都以自己國家的利益為最高原則一樣。此種言論(雖然最後加句"應該全部選擇台聯黨")擺明了就是要毁了對 抗國民黨的勢力，讓國民黨獨大，退 回戒嚴時代(或 被併吞)。台聯黨及民進黨(加上一邊一國)要合作，才能對 抗國民黨及完成 建國，而非相互撕殺，這 種整天鼓動泛綠自相殘殺的言論 務必要警戒， 也不符合BATA的 規定(難 道這是Editor心 中的台灣文化嗎?)。(看 來，規定是訂來限制異議者的言論，訂規定者和Editor不受此限。)
附 帶一提:
1) 若"完全以政治為考量的民進黨立委"此話是正確的， 那何須"民進黨補救"?
2) 選舉結果就是"民意"的呈現，選 舉前都只是猜測而己(民 調有時可以反應民意，但非絕 對，但絕 不是某個人說了就算)，最糟 糕的是不尊重選舉結果，輸了 還硬是找一堆歪理胡鬧。(國民黨已經鬧了兩次還不够 嗎?) 還 好大多數的泛綠者甚少無理取 鬧，還蠻尊重選舉的結果，雖然有時輸得很不服氣。
3) 太 多主觀泛想，偏離現實情勢，無 益於台灣建國。
Eugene
From: I-Kuan Lin [mailto:ik...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 4:47 PM
To: David Huang
Cc: I Love Taiwan; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; Gordon Liu; ts...@ortpatent.com; Frank S T Hsiao; Ted Lau; alle...@timebyte.com; Mei Yeh; Eugene Yeh; sl...@schlin.com; Sidney Chen; heng-fu hsu
Subject: Re: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨
各位台灣派先進：
首先，我要肯定郭英仁君數年來獨力經營 bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com 之貢獻，至少我 們因爲用過這個“媒體”才磨出一些比較 認真的意見。但是，二，三年前，我就在電話上和郭君談我對論壇式 媒體應該如何經營的一些看法，包括：1），電子信群組 不是任何論壇的適當通訊網。 （請參考 wikipedia article on Godwin's Law; 2)， 論壇必須有具公 信力的編輯部。編輯部的責任之一就是擬定有建設性的發言規則，並 切實執行；3）， 台灣派的論壇是 我們爲了採取公民行動的溝通管道之一；編輯部的另一個責任是在凝 聚共識以利於推動公民行動；台灣派善於論述的人大有人在，我輩何 必吃飽湊沒閑？
郭君未得灣區台 美人社團之允許，就擅自用 bay-area-taiwanese-american 這個名稱，是不 對的。
假如大家認爲建 立一個灣區台灣派的論壇是必要的，那麽我建議來好好進行。
多謝指教。
林義寬
From: David Huang <davidhu...@gmail.com>
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: I Love Taiwan <i_love...@googlegroups.com>; ik...@yahoo.com; america...@gmail.com; borc...@yahoo.com; Johnson...@aero.org; rocky...@yahoo.com; sl...@schlin.com; eastgat...@aol.com; jsh...@mytronics.com; sidn...@sbcglobal.net; cy...@csie.ntu.edu.tw; tkt...@ntu.edu.tw; tim...@pacbell.net; sand...@mliusa.com; joh...@yahoo.com; charg...@yahoo.com; mom...@sbcglobal.net; eli...@hotmail.com; Gordon Liu <gwoch...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, July 24, 2011 12:16:04 PM
Subject: Re: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨
I think the majority of the silent readers agree with
Eugene's comments : 這種整天鼓動泛 綠自相殘殺的言論務必要警戒，也不符合BATA的 規定(難道這是Editor心 中的台灣文化嗎?)。(看來，規定 是訂來限制異議者的言論，訂規定者和Editor不受此限。)
David
2011/7/21 Eugene Yeh <pea...@sbcglobal.net>
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Tsao, Rocky
From: i_love...@googlegroups.com [mailto:i_love...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Lu
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 3:59 PM
To: cpy...@gmail.com
Cc: i_love_taiwan
Subject: Re: [I Love Taiwan] RE: [NATPA Forum] RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨 Are you sure?
Tsao, Rocky
CP Yeh
Hi All,
Let's keep discussing the little pitfall of DPP all the time until the great day of election, so we can lose Taiwan forever and enjoy our life abroad.
Don't we think that the energy should be better put in how to win the election? Is criticizing DPP's candidate a way to win the election? Or are we suggesting corrective actions in order to 滅火？
If you do not like Tsai, just promote your candidate as a pan greener. Please do not generate any fire to make pan greens fighting each other.
God bless pan green and Taiwan!
Michael
Sidney Chen
| Is wording more an issue than labelling people like "fifth column", "not united"? Does my wording describe the fact? I guaranteed they did! |
Sidney Chen
|
陳其邁：昨天是在開放自由輕鬆的氣氛中進行討論，也沒有蔡英文發飆的情況產生。
==> If Chen did not clarify he did not perform his job as one of the speaker. |
Frank S T Hsiao
Hi, what is PIT?
Frank S T Hsiao
Completely agree with HH and Rocky. Important thing is we should always be aware of the activities of the fifth columns and the hidden traitors. I also agree that we have many writing talents in the green camp, including, to give a few names, Allen Kuo, Andy Yang, Sidney Chen, and even Johnson Wang (not to speak of great writers like CCC, CCL, C. Chen, TTW, and Rocky, and of course, Jerome, from whom I always learn something). When they said they were deleting my messages since they could not answer my questions or don’t agree with me, I feel very sad. Under the colonial regime, there are still very few good Taiwanese writers or who can write political columns. If these guys withdrew from writing, our website will be that much less interesting. I only wish, as HH says, they will write more to attach the colonial regime, depose them, instead of keeping denouncing DPP. That is the only purpose of my appeal for Tuan jieh (solidarity). Nothing more.
If somebody cannot answer the questions I posed, don’t try to play “dead duck hard beak.” That will only make the things worse, and that is not the way to solidarity. As for me, I am too busy to pose any original question (I regret I couldn’t), I have been only reading and responding to you guys’ writing (My capital letters are the proof). My purpose is only try to show what I agree and what I don’t agree, and pose my doubt or questions, especially related to supporting DPP. My ultimate purpose is to get rid of the colonial regime and the colonial masters.
heng-fu hsu
| Sorry, it should be "pitifully" the adv of the word "pity" my fault, sorry!! HH |
Frank S T Hsiao
Allow me to jump in. I am putting some of you guys on observation (liu xiao tsa kan), and so far as I remember, I don’t call anybody fifth column yet. However, my suggestion is that if the shoe fits, wear it.
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Frank S T Hsiao
Surprised, surprised. Hope this mail still can reach Sidney before he deletes my response. See the my response below.
Rocky, it appears I am the victim of a collateral damage from your exchange with this self-aggravating Sidney Chen. My wife always says I am a chicken aunt. Ha ha ha.
From: Sidney Chen [mailto:sidn...@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 4:18 PM
To: Frank S T Hsiao
Subject: RE: [I Love Taiwan] RE: [NATPA Forum] RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨 Are you sure?
I believe you are suffering KMT-education syndrome because:
FH: I got a “very good” education under KMT, no question about it, just like Gandhi was educated at Oxford. What was your colonial education? Funny, are you a product of “wide chicken university” in Taiwan?
Labeling people using KMT lanugae;
FH: What kind of language did I use? What are you talking about? When I said to you “I did not understand what you are “shouting” about. Shouldn’t you show you what you are first?” Is this “Labeling people using KMT lanugae?”
Self-claimed authority and judge of community;
FH: Absolutely not true. I always learn from other people, including you, either positively or negatively. When did I claim “authority, judge of community.” My capital letters are direct and straightforward, since some of you and your group’s writing I agree but some I don’t. Many writers use right words and then make wrong conclusions, twisted the conclusions to attack DPP, including your criticism of Tsai Huang Lang in the DPP list of LY candidates (You have extremely biased one-sided observation, as some pointed out), and your conclusion that “DPP is no better than KMT” is not only wrong (remember this?), but also was a traitorous conclusion duly disputed by Luby Liao (in response you showed us how you criticized KMT in the past, but that is irrelevant to the discussion). I just ask people to answer my questions, didn’t I? Did you answer my question, “Shouldn’t you show you what you are first?” if you want me to answer?
Writing being full of mumbling with much substance.
FH: Well, what is my “mumbling”? If you think my questions are “mumbling without substance,” then why do you say I am “Self-claimed authority and judge of community” ? Don’t you think this is ‘substantial” enough? Ok, if you think my “authority and the judge of community” is not substantial enough, shouldn’t you show me which part I did “mumbling without substance?” This is a sweeping accusation without proof or evidence, like you guys always do. Don’t you think you are just “Labeling people using KMT lanugae?” And don’t you pretend “Self-claimed authority and judge of community”? And further your “Writing being full of mumbling with much substance.”? Where is your substance of accusing me? You are shooting at your own foot. Can’t you see you yourself are guilty of your own accusation of others?
Sorry, I put you in my SPAM filter. Please don't bother to write to me.
FH: Ok, I am honored, I didn’t know my simple questions have so much effect. I will honor your request, but just don’t pollute the websites with distorted conclusions: “Labeling people using KMT lanugae;” “Self-claimed authority and judge of community”; “Writing being full of mumbling with much substance.” Thank you.
--- On Sat, 7/30/11, Frank S T Hsiao <frank...@Colorado.EDU> wrote:
The pleasure is mine, I did not understand what you are “shouting” about. Shouldn’t you show you what you are first? From: Sidney Chen [mailto:sidn...@sbcglobal.net] |
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:47 AM |
Subject: RE: [I Love Taiwan] RE: [NATPA Forum] RE: [BATA] 合作對抗國民黨 Are you sure?
|
Tsao, Rocky
To: 'Sidney Chen'
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'; Tsao, Rocky
Sidney Chen
|
時勢作英雄、這是歴史的安排！
She herself as a candidate is a good change for Taiwan. Her charm and charisma is that she nevre behaves like a politicican and she does not have any conventional political background, which is what Taiwan people, particularly those third type of voters. She is calm and does not use vocally provocative calls but just telling people what she is doing, experiencing, and thinking Some stories really touched my heart;
One day she went to a fund raise in Yulin for NT$1000 per person, with 10 people per table. In a table, 10 country fellows told her, that table represented 100 people because they could not afford NT$1000 as a person therefore they chipped in NT$100 per person.
After she took over the chairperson, every time any DPP's prefecture governor could not attend the meeting, she started to worry Ma was doing the judicial suppression. That was what the burden the chairperson needs to sustain after 2008.
Last trip I was in Beijing the young guy taking me for sightseeing, told me how could that be possible to ask your leader (Japanese PM) to step dwon and he did comply. If anybody in China dared, they would disappear the next day. If Tsai wins, that will make Chinese think harder, how could a resourceless and physically weak woman can command ALL generals? That will be the message I like to tell them.
But, I like to condemn those selfish DPP politicians that occupy the seats of 不分区 and dent her charm.
Sidney
|
Tsao, Rocky
To: 'Frank S T Hsiao'; Tsao, Rocky
Cc: 'I Love Taiwan'
Subject: Re: 何博文造勢大會兼蔡英文國政說明會---時勢作英雄、這是歴史的安排！
Frank S T Hsiao
Good point. “a table represented 100 people because they could not afford NT$1000 as a person therefore they chipped in NT$100 per person.” Ok, that exactly what Obama did in 2008. Young people used a cell phone to contribute $10, $20. When it accumulates, the money can beat the political contribution of big companies.
Well, politicians are selfish. It is not the monopoly of DPP. Just look at the fight in the US Congress, the House and Senate. If the House cuts the spending, Democrats will lose, if the Senate increase the tax, the Republicans will lose. Nobody wants to lose. That is their fight. My point is that just to help DPP win the election. No bad mouthing. Others can be considered after DPP wins (it may be extremely difficult to win).