Forest of Arden
Tom Reedy
discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
The group was founded in February, 2007, as an alternative to the
atmosphere that often prevails in the open group
humanities.lit.authorship.shakespeare.
Anybody can read the discussions, but only members can post.
Applications for membership will be liberally granted, but it is not
automatic. To become a member, follow the instructions on the group
front page and your application will be reviewed and answered within a
reasonable period of time.
Members pledge to adhere to a higher standard than that of a regular
newsgroup on penalty of speedy revocation of membership privileges if
those standards are violated.
Listed below are the rules of conduct of the Forest of Arden.
1. While we encourage lively and even sharp debate, no insulting
remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
one warning.
2. No spamming or posting nonsensical or cryptic messages. One warning
followed by suspension if the offense is repeated.
3. All offensive posts described above and all replies containing the
original messages will be removed from the archives.
There are some good discussions in the Forest of Arden archive. We
hope more will take place and that you enjoy participating.
Sincerely,
The Forest of Arden Owners
art
> The Forest of Arden, a private Google group established for the
> discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
> Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
> is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
>
> The group was founded in February, 2007, as an alternative
> to the atmosphere that often prevails in the open group
> humanities.lit.authorship.shakespeare.
>
> Anybody can read the discussions, but only members can post.
So interesting to see what folks say about you behind your back.
Art Neuendorffer
Greg Reynolds
> So interesting to see what folks say about you behind your back.
>
> Art Neuendorffer
Or counting your posts as if they were mirth
and posting the total as though it had worth.
-- Guilelmus Seuss
art
>>
>> So interesting to see what folks say about you behind your back.
Greg Reynolds <even...@core.com> wrote:
>
> Or counting your posts as if they were mirth
> and posting the total as though it had worth.
> -- Guilelmus Seuss
George: Y'know if this FOA newsgroup dies, Art could really be *WORTH*
something...
.
KRAMER: I think he's *WORTH* something. He's kitschy.
.
PETERMAN: All right, Lubeck. How much is he *WORTH*?
.
LUBECK: I'd say about 219.
--------------------------------------------------
___*WORTH* : *VERDI* (Norwegian)
___*WORTH* : *VÄRDI* (Swedish)
___*WORTH* : *VÆRDI* (Danish)
---------------------------------------------------
___*HOSTAGE* : *GISSEL* (Norwegian)
___*HOSTAGE* : *GEISEL* (German)
--------------------------------------
Art (Stockholm Syndrome) Neuendorffer
Tom Reedy
I don't know of anyone who has said anything behind your back they
haven't said to your face.
TR
book...@yahoo.com
Is it possible there is a collective "we", or are you the "we"?
Always a good idea to know if there is a Robin Hood or just Merry Men
in the Forest of Arden before venturing through.
Perhaps you could tell us if you've captured any h.l.a.s. yet? We
"we"s might exchange prisoners, too, unless you're not taking any.
Actually, to defend ourselves, h.l.a.s. ought to send a spy or two
into this Forest to stir up divisiveness, instigate rebellion, and
demean and denigrate their sheeple. I think we have some who would be
good at it. By rights, we should collect taxes from these pirates.
Sheriff of Nottingham
conra...@gmail.com
>
> So interesting to see what folks say about you behind your back.
Come on, Art: be fair. You enjoy provoking people; you've made clear
that aggravating people is a good portion of your motivation in your
posting habits; so there's no call, that I can see, to get all hurt
when you succeed in making someone dislike you.
Conrad.
art
>>>
>>> The Forest of Arden, a private Google group established for the
>>> discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
>>> Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
>>> is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
>
>>> The group was founded in February, 2007, as an alternative
>>> to the atmosphere that often prevails in the open group
>>> humanities.lit.authorship.shakespeare.
>
>>> Anybody can read the discussions,
>>> but only members can post.
> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So interesting to see what folks say about you behind your back.
Tom Reedy <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know of anyone who has said anything
> behind your back they haven't said to your face.
I do.
Art Neuendorffer
art
>>Sincerely, The Forest of Arden Owners
.
bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Is it possible there is a collective "we", or are you the "we"?
___*FOREST OF ARDEN*
___*FANS FOR TO. REED.*
.
bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Always a good idea to know if there is a Robin Hood or just
> Merry Men in the Forest of Arden before venturing through.
There's one FAN-TOM, at least.
.
bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Perhaps you could tell us if you've captured any h.l.a.s. yet? We
> "we"s might exchange prisoners, too, unless you're not taking any.
We could add a Prisoner of ARDDENda (but it might be a spy).
.
bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Actually, to defend ourselves, h.l.a.s. ought to send a spy or two
> into this Forest to stir up divisiveness, instigate rebellion,
> and demean and denigrate their sheeple.
The 'sheeple' of Toronto have spoken and Ontario gets another coat of
red paint.
.
bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I think we have some who would be good at it.
> By rights, we should collect taxes from these pirates.
I am set naked in their kingdom.
.
bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Sheriff of Nottingham
They invited KQKnave but not bookburn!
Oh, the humanities!
Art Neuendorffer
Greg Reynolds
They negotiated a blanket amnesty with the Afghans.
nordicskiv2
When one is addressing the hindquarters of a horse, the
distinction between what is said to the face and what is said behind
the back is apt to become somewhat blurred.
In any case, *I* certainly have not said anything behind Art's
back that I have not said to Art himself; indeed, what I've said about
Art in the inner circles of the Shakespeare Authorship Coverup
Conspiracy is apt to be more flattering than the words that I've
addressed to Art himself.
> TR
La Mouse
Hi bb,
There's Tom and me--I guess I'm Maid Marian--and Nessus and BCD. Tom
and I are most active, and took over from the old owners and opened
Arden up. I'm pretty sure you were invited before, but perhaps your
invitation went into the junk. Everyone who can keep a civil tongue in
his or her head and doesn't spam is most welcome.
Mouse
>
> Perhaps you could tell us if you've captured any h.l.a.s. yet? We
> "we"s might exchange prisoners, too, unless you're not taking any.
>
> Actually, to defend ourselves, h.l.a.s. ought to send a spy or two
> into this Forest to stir up divisiveness, instigate rebellion, and
> demean and denigrate their sheeple. I think we have some who would be
> good at it. By rights, we should collect taxes from these pirates.
>
> Sheriff of Nottingham- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Le historien
While on the subject, I was the original owner. I advised folks the
motto of the group was to be "more matter and less Art." I'm happy to
see the Forest of Arden is still open, and I wish it well with its new
owners.
Paul Crowley
news:186689c4-9823-4d24...@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> The Forest of Arden, a private Google group established for the
> discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
> Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
> is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
> http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
Do you really expect people -- especially from
this newsgroup -- to join a group in which the
shit, Agent Jim (KQKnave / Jim Carroll) is an
active member?
Paul.
art
>>>>
>>>> The Forest of Arden, a private Google group established for the
>>>> discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
>>>> Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
>>>> is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
>
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
>
>>>> The group was founded in February, 2007, as an alternative
>>>> to the atmosphere that often prevails in the open group
>>>> humanities.lit.authorship.shakespeare.
>
>>>> Anybody can read the discussions, but only members can post.
>> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So interesting to see what folks say about you behind your back.
> Tom Reedy <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know of anyone who has said anything behind
>> your back they haven't said to your face.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> When one is addressing the hindquarters of a horse, the
> distinction between what is said to the face and what is said behind
> the back is apt to become somewhat blurred.
>
> In any case, *I* certainly have not said anything behind Art's
> back that I have not said to Art himself; indeed, what I've said about
> Art in the inner circles of the Shakespeare Authorship Coverup
> Conspiracy is apt to be more flattering than the words that I've
> addressed to Art himself.
I don't recall specifying that folks *necessarily*
said nastier things behind my back; e.g.:
----------------------------------------
Tom Reedy wrote in message <70icjb$p7...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
In article <70glls$nq...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
BobGrum...@Nut-N-But.Net wrote:
>
> I have every confidence that Tom Reedy will demolish John Foelster
> if they ever debate, and wouldn't mind seeing such a debate, but I
> suddenly had a brainstorm. Since the Oxfordians lost the first
> engagement--as Foelster would, I'm sure, admit--why not require them
> to work their way up the ranks again? Make them debate not Tom but
> Peter Farey, the Marlovian! Tom could take on the winner.
> --Bob G.
Hi Bob. thanks for the compliment, but as you know, who we debate is
out of our hands. I got an e-mail from the Trust & was assigned
Foelster just as soon as his name appeared on the ng. Boy, I'm glad I
was taken off Crowley: the man is too well-read & intelligent, it was
all I could do to keep up with him. I'm damn glad they've never given
me Art to debate; I feel sorry for poor David. Of course that new
anagram program they have is sure coming in handy for him, but I
*NEVER* want to go toe-to-toe with Art--he knows too much, although I
doubt if he's even aware of all he knows.
...Tom
----------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
La Mouse
>
> - Show quoted text -
Come on back, Neil, at least as a participant.
Mouse
La Mouse
<slkwuoiutiuytciu...@slkjlskjoioue.com> wrote:
> "Tom Reedy" <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Jim's been a member for ages, and always behaves himself.
Mouse
Le historien
I think many of us behave differently when we are with folks who have
manners.
Lyra
````````````````````````````
Le historien
(anagram)
Oh Neil (w)rites
Neil (w)rite? - O, sh!
Or, is Neil the -
art
>
> I was the original owner. I advised folks the motto
> of the group was to be "more matter and less Art."
> I'm happy to see the Forest of Arden is still open,
> and I wish it well with its new owners.
Not a whole lot of "matter" since last December:
----------------------------------
FoA posts:
....................................
____ jan Feb mar Apr may Jun jul Aug sep Oct
nov Dec
2007 414 739 555 461 386 199 115 191 171 250 177
006
2008 019 056 018 033 005 053 002
----------------------------------
It will be interesting to see if the activity picks up
a little now that FoA has come out of the closet:
----------------------------------
Top FoA posters All time
.
886 Mouse
777 Tom Reedy
312 bobgr...@nut-n-but.net
203 Jim KQKnave
193 Touchstone
174 KCL
158 John H
106 Nessus
101 The Historian
89 montive...@bigpond.com
....................................
Fool: Speak *LESS than THOU KNOWEST* ,
. Lend *LESS* than thou owest,
. Ride more than thou goest,
. Learn more than thou trowest,
. Set *LESS* than thou throwest;
--------------------------------------------
. Cymbeline Act 2, Scene 5
.
POSTHUMUS LEONATUS:
. This yellow Iachimo, in an hour,--wast not?--
. Or *LESS*,--at first?--perchance he spoke not, but,
. Like a full-acorn'd *BOAR*, a German one,
. Cried 'O!' and mounted;.. I'll write against them,
. Detest them, curse them: yet 'tis greater skill
. In a *TRUE* hate, to pray they have their will:
. The *VERY* devils cannot plague them better.
----------------------------------------
. Trap The Erymanthian *BOAR*
. - Hercules's *FOURTH* Labor
....................................
___*FOURTH* = *ViERDE* (Dutch)
___*WILD BOAR* = *EVER* (Dutch)
---------------------------------------------
http://www.ljhammond.com/phlit/2005-07c.htm
.
<<before he adopted the pen-name William Shakespeare,
Oxford used the pen-name “Ever or Never.” He prefaced
an edition of Troilus and Cressida with an epistle
entitled “A *nEVER* Writer to An *EVER* Reader: News.”
.
Other writers knew who was hiding behind “Ever or Never” and
“William Shakespeare”; Richard Barnfield, for example, wrote:
.
. And Shakespeare thou, whose honey-flowing Vein
. (Pleasing the World) thy praises doth obtain...
. Live *EVER* you, at least in Fame live *EVER* :
. Well may the Body die, but Fame dies *nEVER*
.
And John Marston also used the word *EVER* when writing
about the hidden poet, and Marston gives us another hint:
the poet’s name begins and ends with the same letter (E):
.
...Far fly thy fame
( M )ost, most of me beloved! Whose silent name
( O )ne letter bounds. Thy *TRUE* judicial style
( I ) *EVER* honor; and, if my love beguile
( N )ot much my hopes, then thy unvalued *WORTH*
( S )hall mount fair place, when apes are turned *FORTH* .>>
------------------------------------------------
___*MOINS* : *LESS* , *MINUS* (French)
.........................................
*125* *VERO NIHIL VERIUS* DICTUM *VERORUm* ,
. ILLUSTRISSIMORUM OXONIAE COMITUM
.
*VERUs*, verior, et verissimus, haec tria monstrant
Quod vero quiddam verius esse potest.
Falsum ergo est, *VERO NIL VERIUS* esse. Sed ipsum
Hoc *VERUm* est, Vero verius esse nihil.
Intense capitur *VERUm* et quandoque remisse.
Vere, magis tu non suscipis atque *MINUS* .
[url=http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/stradling/4lat.html#125]
http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/stradling/4lat.html#125[/url]
http://www.philological.bham.ac.uk/stradling/4eng.html
.............................................
125. *VERO NIHIL VERIUS* . THE MOTTO OF THE VERES,
. THE MOST DISTINGUISHED EARLS OF OXFORD
.
Veritable, more veritable, and most veritable, these
three demonstrate that something can be *TRUER than TRUE* .
That *VERO NIHIL VERIUS* is therefore wrong.
But this is *TRUTH* . *Nothing is TRUER than VERE* .
This *VERE* is sometimes understood narrowly, and sometimes loosely.
But, *VERE* , you do not admit a "more" and a *LESS*
----------------------------------------
. A Midsummer Night's DREAM Act 5, Scene 1
LYSANDER: *LESS* than an ace, man;
. for he is dead; he is *NOTHING* .
----------------------------------------
. The Taming of the Shrew Prologue, Scene 1
.
First Huntsman: I warrant you we will play our part,
. As he shall think by our *TRUE* diligence
. *He is no LESS than what we say he is* .
-------------------------------------------
. King Henry VI, Part ii Act 4, Scene 3
.
CADE: And, to speak *TRUTH* , thou *DESERVEst no LESS*.
. This monument of the victory will I bear;
----------------------------------------
. King Henry IV, Part i Act 2, Scene 4
.
FALSTAFF. I am a rogue, if I were not at half-sword with a
. dozen of them two hours together. I have 'scaped by
. miracle. I am eight times thrust through the
. doublet, four through the hose; my buckler cut
. through and through; my sword hacked like a
. hand-saw--ecce signum! I *nEVER* dealt
. better since I was a man: all would not do.
. A plague of all cowards! Let them speak:
. if they speak more or *LESS than TRUTH*,
. they are villains and the sons of darkness.
-------------------------------------------
http://shakespeare.palomar.edu/life.htm
<<Though, as Ben: Johnson sayes of him, that
he had but little Latine and *LESSE* Greek,
he understood Latine pretty well, for he had been
in his younger yeares a schoolmaster in the countrey.
—from Mr. . . .Beeston>> - John Aubrey
---------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 17
.
So should my papers yellow'd with their age
Be scorn'd like old men of *LESS TRUTH* than tongue,
And your *TRUE* rights be term'd a poet's rage
And stretched metre of an antique song:
----------------------------------------
. The Two Gentlemen of Verona Act 2, Scene 7
.
JULIA: A *TRUE-devoted* pilgrim is not weary
. To measure kingdoms with his *FEEBLE* steps;
. Much *LESS* shall she that hath Love's wings to fly,
. And when the flight is made to one so dear,
. Of such divine perfection, as Sir Proteus.
----------------------------------------
. The Comedy of Errors Act 3, Scene 2
OF SYRACUSE: Sweet mistress--what your name is else,
. I know not, Nor by what wonder you do hit of mine,--
. *LESS* in your knowledge and your grace you show not
. Than our earth's wonder, more than earth divine.
. Teach me, dear creature, how to think and speak;
. Lay open to my earthy-gross conceit,
. Smother'd in errors, *FEEBLE*, shallow, weak,
. The folded meaning of your words' deceit.
. Against my soul's pure *TRUTH* why labour you
. To make it wander in an unknown field?
.
. Act 4, Scene 4
.
ADRIANA. His incivility confirms no *LESS*.
. Good Doctor Pinch, you are a conjurer;
. Establish him in his *TRUE* sense again,
. And I will please you what you will demand.
----------------------------------------
. The Merchant of Venice Act 3, Scene 2
PORTIA: Then music is
. Even as the flourish when *TRUE* subjects bow
. To a new-crowned monarch: such it is
. As are those *DULCET* sounds in break of day
. That creep into the *DREAMing* bridegroom's ear,
. And summon him to marriage. Now he goes,
. With no *LESS* presence, but with much more love,
. Than young Alcides, when he did redeem
. The virgin tribute paid by howling Troy
. To the sea-monster: I stand for sacrifice
. The rest aloof are the Dardanian wives,
. With bleared visages, come *FORTH* to view
. The issue of the exploit.
----------------------------------------
. Much Ado About NOTHING Act 3, Scene 3
.
DOGBERRY: If you meet a thief, you may suspect him, by virtue
. of your office, to be *no TRUE man* ; and, for such
. kind of men, the *LESS* you meddle or make with them,
. why the more is for your honesty.
----------------------------------------
. The Winter's Tale Act 1, Scene 2
.
CAMILLO: 'shrew my heart,
. You *nEVER* spoke what did become you *LESS*
. Than this; which to reiterate were sin
. As *DEEP* as that, though *TRUE*.
---------------------------------------
. Othello, The Moor of Venice Act 1, Scene 3
.
IAGO: my cause is hearted; thine hath no *LESS* reason.
.
. Act 2, Scene 3
.
MONTANO. If partially affined, or leagued in office,
. Thou dost *DELIVER* more or *LESS than TRUTH*,
. Thou art no soldier.
----------------------------------------
. Macbeth Act 4, Scene 3
.
MALCOLM: I am yet
. Unknown to woman, *nEVER* was forsworn,
. Scarcely have coveted what was mine own,
. At no time broke my faith, would not betray
. The devil to his fellow and delight
. *No LESS in TRUTH* than life: my first false speaking
. Was this upon myself: what *I am TRULY* ,
. Is thine and my poor country's to command:
. Whither indeed, before thy here-approach,
. Old Siward, with ten thousand warlike men,
. Already at a point, was setting *FORTH*
----------------------------------------
. Coriolanus Act 5, Scene 3
.
CORIOLANUS: But, let it come.
. Aufidius, though I cannot make *TRUE* wars,
. I'll frame convenient peace. Now, good Aufidius,
. Were you in my stead, would you have heard
. A mother *LESS* ? or granted *LESS*, Aufidius?
----------------------------------------
. Sonnet 123
.
Thy registers and thee I both defy,
Not wondering at the present nor the past,
For thy records and what we see doth lie,
Made more or *LESS* by thy continual haste.
This I do vow and this shall *EVER* be;
I will be *TRUE*, despite thy scythe and thee.
----------------------------------------
. A Lover's Complaint Stanza 27
.
''All my offences that abroad you see
Are errors of the blood, none of the mind;
Love made them not: with acture they may be,
Where neither party is nor *TRUE* nor kind:
They sought their shame that so their shame did find;
And so much *LESS* of shame in me remains,
By how much of me their reproach contains.
--------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Paul Crowley
Hitler was a vegetarian and always
kind to animals.
Somehow such facts would not make
me entirely comfortable in his company.
Paul.
art
>>>>
>>>> The Forest of Arden, a private Google group established for the
>>>> discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
>>>> Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
>>>> is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
>>>>http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
>
>>>
>>> this newsgroup -- to join a group in which the
>>> shit, Agent Jim (KQKnave / Jim Carroll) is an
>>> active member?
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jim's been a member for ages, and always behaves himself.
.
but *here* we lack a Schlossen Wyher Cutoff
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2005/0080433.html
.
Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think many of us behave differently
> when we are with folks who have manners.
FoA has a Rutland advocate?
Art Neuendorffer
Le historien
Crowley invokes Godwin's law. Thread over, Lynne wins.
Paul Crowley
news:1ba22f7a-4f15-4e87...@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>> > > Do you really expect people -- especially from
>> > > this newsgroup -- to join a group in which the
>> > > shit, Agent Jim (KQKnave / Jim Carroll) is an
>> > > active member?
>>
>> > Jim's been a member for ages, and always behaves himself.
>> > Mouse
>>
>> Hitler was a vegetarian and always
>> kind to animals.
>>
>> Somehow such facts would not make
>> me entirely comfortable in his company.
>>
>> Paul.
>
> Crowley invokes Godwin's law. Thread over, Lynne wins.
The issue is how we should treat shits
-- of the nature of Art and Jim Carroll.
Lynne is more tolerant than me.
But that allows them to thrive, and
encourages them to continue to shit
all over us.
Speaking for myself, I would not enter
a group which treated the shit Carroll
with respect.
Paul.
art
>
> The issue is how we should treat shits
> -- of the nature of Art and Jim Carroll.
> Lynne is more tolerant than me.
Denying me Oxfordian status and putting me in
the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity
is hardly what I would call "tolerant" :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Tom Reedy" <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote the FoA:
>> Why is it that physics guys are the ones with the most far-fetched
>> (I realize that is a relative term given our topic here) theories? You
>> have this guy, Art N., Mark Anderson--I wonder how many others?
On Sep 6, 11:47 am, Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We don't have this guy. He is a Hastingsian or something. We don't
> really include Art either. For the most part he only espouses theories
> that he's made up himself and virtually no one else agrees with,
> as lackpurity does.
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Paul Crowley" wrote:
>
> Speaking for myself, I would not enter a group
> which treated the shit Carroll with respect.
Speaking for myself, I refuse to join any group
which would have me as a member.
Art Neuendorffer
conra...@gmail.com
>
> I think many of us behave differently when we are with folks who have
> manners.
--which reflects manners that are a performance, rather than true
standards of oneself.
Conrad.
conra...@gmail.com
>
> Speaking for myself, I would not enter
> a group which treated the shit Carroll
> with respect.
Neither would Groucho.
Conrad.
Le historien
wrote:
Perhaps. But isn't life itself a performance, one in which we play
many roles?
conra...@gmail.com
>
> Perhaps. But isn't life itself a performance, one in which we play
> many roles?
This is a stage you will soon outgrow.
Conrad.
Le historien
wrote:
Yes, since we only have seven ages.
conra...@gmail.com
>
> Yes, since we only have seven ages.
In a manner of speaking, being of age seven need not give us bad
manners.
Conrad.
book...@yahoo.com
>The Forest of Arden, a private Google group established for the
>discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
>Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
>is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
>http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
>
>The group was founded in February, 2007, as an alternative to the
>atmosphere that often prevails in the open group
>humanities.lit.authorship.shakespeare.
>
>Anybody can read the discussions, but only members can post.
>
>Applications for membership will be liberally granted, but it is not
>automatic. To become a member, follow the instructions on the group
>front page and your application will be reviewed and answered within a
>reasonable period of time.
>
>Members pledge to adhere to a higher standard than that of a regular
>newsgroup on penalty of speedy revocation of membership privileges if
>those standards are violated.
>
>Listed below are the rules of conduct of the Forest of Arden.
>
>1. While we encourage lively and even sharp debate, no insulting
>remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
>Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
>one warning.
>
>2. No spamming or posting nonsensical or cryptic messages. One warning
>followed by suspension if the offense is repeated.
>
>3. All offensive posts described above and all replies containing the
>original messages will be removed from the archives.
>
>There are some good discussions in the Forest of Arden archive. We
>hope more will take place and that you enjoy participating.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>The Forest of Arden Owners
[Well done, TR, you do the Trust proud to move to Arden, and I hope as
Pied Piper, you'll be followed by h.l.a.s. Rats to the Forest, where,
I'm sure, you'll deal with them in your own wonderful way.
Errant Children, who've been bored by school here and follow the Pied
Piper for the music, will become disenchanted and allowed to toddle
back to Hamlin for further indoctrination, I assume.
BTW, we'll be looking for your return to our Hamlin here at h.l.a.s.,
as soon as you complete this mission. We're all laughing about your
ingenious ploy/ruse/gambit of leading off the dregs from this news
group to abandon them in the Forest. BB]
conra...@gmail.com
I trust you just jest; and, as one unschooled, it is an unjust jest.
Reedy is not one to blow so unfortunate a pipe, nor lead us to
treason; rather hear the tom-toms and the drums deep in the night and
by your light do not panic aboard your sinking ship. We'll throw you
a line; from time to time.
Conrad.
Christian Lanciai
> Always a good idea to know if there is a Robin Hood or just Merry Men
>
> Perhaps you could tell us if you've captured any h.l.a.s. yet? We
> "we"s might exchange prisoners, too, unless you're not taking any.
>
> Actually, to defend ourselves, h.l.a.s. ought to send a spy or two
> into this Forest to stir up divisiveness, instigate rebellion, and
> demean and denigrate their sheeple. I think we have some who would be
> good at it. By rights, we should collect taxes from these pirates.
>
> Sheriff of Nottingham
Just for the record: I was thrown out from there (the first one to be
subjected to that treatment) after allegations by Jim supported by
Tom, Neil and others. I swear I had no subversive intentions. I joined
because I was invited, and it would have been impolite to say no. It
reminds you of Stalin after the second world war, when he invited old
Russian emigrants from the 1917 revolution in France to come back to
Russia and enjoy special favours. A handful accepted, and when they
came ashore in Odessa they were shot as spies. The few threads I
participated in (March 2007) have since been deleted with all my
posts, my name and my efforts at explanantions, as if I never had been
there, culpable, to talk with Dostoyevsky, "for the sins of others".
The only one of the owners who behaved with some decency was Mark
Cipra. The rest all proudly published their portraits and looked
exactly like the Kryuchkov, Yazov, Pavlov, Yanayev, Pugo and
Akhromeyev lot at the Kremlin coup of August 1991. I would never even
dare to try to place my foot in there again. Immediately after that,
Jim went rampant berserk mad in h.l.a.s. and is partly in that mood
still today. The one good thing about h.l.a.s. is it can't be
bowdlerized – even your misprints can't be censured or deleted. Sorry
to add to the bad publicity for that group, the new owners seem to
have come forth with a better charter, but any excuse on their side
would be too late – like in the case of Timothy Evans after his proved
ínnocence.
C(hris)
art
> bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> Is it possible there is a collective "we", or are you the "we"?
>> Always a good idea to know if there is a Robin Hood or just Merry Men
>> in the Forest of Arden before venturing through.
>
>> Perhaps you could tell us if you've captured any h.l.a.s. yet? We
>> "we"s might exchange prisoners, too, unless you're not taking any.
>
>> Actually, to defend ourselves, h.l.a.s. ought to send a spy or two
>> into this Forest to stir up divisiveness, instigate rebellion, and
>> demean and denigrate their sheeple. I think we have some who would be
>> good at it. By rights, we should collect taxes from these pirates.
>
>> Sheriff of Nottingham
Forest of Arden: "All animals are equal,
but some animals are more equal than others"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Tom Reedy
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think the best days of hlas are behind us, and FOA was an attempt to
recreate the environment to try to make that happen again. It is not
new, it began in February, 2007, and prospered for a time, but as
things calmed down over here fewer discussions took place there. It's
a worthy venue (my idea of it is that of the SHAKSPER of authorship
discussions), but if it bombs, it bombs.
As of this moment there are more and better discussions at the
Shakespeare Fellowship than there are here.
TR
Tom Reedy
> "Paul Crowley" wrote:
>
> > The issue is how we should treat shits
> > -- of the nature of Art and Jim Carroll.
> > Lynne is more tolerant than me.
>
> Denying me Oxfordian status and putting me in
> the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity
> is hardly what I would call "tolerant" :
>
> > "Tom Reedy" <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote the FoA:
> >> Why is it that physics guys are the ones with the most far-fetched
> >> (I realize that is a relative term given our topic here) theories? You
> >> have this guy, Art N., Mark Anderson--I wonder how many others?
>
> On Sep 6, 11:47 am, Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We don't have this guy. He is a Hastingsian or something. We don't
> > really include Art either. For the most part he only espouses theories
> > that he's made up himself and virtually no one else agrees with,
> > as lackpurity does.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Paul Crowley" wrote:
>
> > Speaking for myself, I would not enter a group
> > which treated the shit Carroll with respect.
>
> Speaking for myself, I refuse to join any group
> which would have me as a member.
>
> Art Neuendorffer
It's ironic indeed--but predictable--that you act like a destructive
deranged idiot for years and then complain when people treat you like
one. I hope you're happy with your legacy in the Oxfordian world. I
think you could have done better, myself, but it was nobody's choice
but yours how you spent your time and intellect.
TR
Le historien
Up to your usual standard of accuracy, I see. I didn't find out about
the three faces of 'Christian' until after you left. I certainly
didn't have anything to do with your departure, although I agree it
was a prudent move on the part of the Forest to drum you out.
La Mouse
> "Paul Crowley" wrote:
>
> > The issue is how we should treat shits
> > -- of the nature of Art and Jim Carroll.
> > Lynne is more tolerant than me.
>
> Denying me Oxfordian status and putting me in
> the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity
> is hardly what I would call "tolerant" :
I was not a manager at that time, so the decisions really had nothing
to do with me. We were also in a situation where posters were
suggesting a few more people for membership each week, but the
"owners" had left the building and as regular members we didn't know
how to get those people on. Several weeks ago I approached one of the
old managers and asked if I could have the keys to the palace, so to
speak. A couple of others joined me, we've opened Arden up, and we're
willing to accept anyone who is reasonably polite and doesn't spam.
Even if people spammed, for example, on hlas in the past, we'd
probably be willing to give them a chance on Arden.
Mouse
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nordicskiv2
<1fee644e-5d29-41ac...@u36g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
art <acne...@gmail.com>
(acnew...@gmail.comedy) wrote:
> "Paul Crowley" wrote:
> >
> > The issue is how we should treat shits
> > -- of the nature of Art and Jim Carroll.
> > Lynne is more tolerant than me.
> Denying me Oxfordian status and putting me in
> the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity
> is hardly what I would call "tolerant" :
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> > "Tom Reedy" <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote the FoA:
>
> >> Why is it that physics guys are the ones with the most far-fetched
> >> (I realize that is a relative term given our topic here) theories? You
> >> have this guy, Art N., Mark Anderson--I wonder how many others?
> On Sep 6, 11:47 am, Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We don't have this guy. He is a Hastingsian or something. We don't
> > really include Art either. For the most part he only espouses theories
> > that he's made up himself and virtually no one else agrees with,
> > as lackpurity does.
But Art -- Lynne was being *generous*! After all, she did say
"virtually," a concession I doubt that anyone else would have made.
In light of the ridiculous posts in which you all but accused Lynne
and Dr. Stritmatter of plagiarism (or in your case and that of
Elizabeth, "plagerism"), a pretty remarkable accusation for someone
who had not even read their paper, Lynne has been tolerant indeed.
> "Paul Crowley" wrote:
> >
> > Speaking for myself, I would not enter a group
> > which treated the shit Carroll with respect.
> Speaking for myself, I refuse to join any group
> which would have me as a member.
You'd better be careful with such sour grapes, Art -- Elizabeth is
apt to label you a Marxist as she did me -- she is evidently unable to
distinguish Karl Marx from Groucho of the same surname, just as you
are unable to distinguish Peter Gay the Emeritus Yale historian from
Peter Gay the middle-aged industrial plant manager.
Does that mean that you'll be leaving h.l.a.s., Art? After all,
we've welcomed you as a member. It would indeed be a pity if you left
-- although it would be a welcome change if you would cease posting
multiple copies of the VERy same (that's *same*, not "sane") lunatic
logorrhea that you have already posted scores of times.
> Art Neuendorffer
nordicskiv2
<84cc939a-a1b1-423c...@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
art <acne...@gmail.com>
(acnew...@gmail.comedy) wrote:
> Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was the original owner. I advised folks the motto
> > of the group was to be "more matter and less Art."
> > I'm happy to see the Forest of Arden is still open,
> > and I wish it well with its new owners.
> Not a whole lot of "matter" since last December:
> ----------------------------------
> FoA posts:
> ....................................
> ____ jan Feb mar Apr may Jun jul Aug sep Oct
> nov Dec
> 2007 414 739 555 461 386 199 115 191 171 250 177
> 006
> 2008 019 056 018 033 005 053 002
That's because the Forest of Arden lacks a certifiable moron who
deluges the group with the same cretinous crap posted oVER and oVER
and oVER.
> It will be interesting to see if the activity picks up
> a little now that FoA has come out of the closet:
> ----------------------------------
> Top FoA posters All time
> .
> 886 Mouse
> 777 Tom Reedy
> 312 bobgr...@nut-n-but.net
> 203 Jim KQKnave
> 193 Touchstone
> 174 KCL
> 158 John H
> 106 Nessus
> 101 The Historian
> 89 montive...@bigpond.com
> ....................................
> Fool: Speak *LESS than THOU KNOWEST* ,
> . Lend *LESS* than thou owest,
> . Ride more than thou goest,
> . Learn more than thou trowest,
> . Set *LESS* than thou throwest;
If Oxford had written those lines, there surely have been another
line, an exhortation to Orazio Cogno: Sing less than thou blowest.
But I suspect that you comprehend quite clearly why you are not a
member of the new group, Art -- if you were, it would degenerate
precipitously from the For'st of Arden to the Worst of Art N.
[Screenfuls of lunatic logorrhea snipped]
nordicskiv2
<9f9158e6-3709-4f68...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
art <acne...@gmail.com>
(acnew...@gmail.comedy) wrote:
> > Tom Reedy
>
> >>Sincerely, The Forest of Arden Owners
> bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Is it possible there is a collective "we", or are you the "we"?
> ___*FOREST OF ARDEN*
> ___*FANS FOR TO. REED.*
In view of the group's founding objective, "More matter, with less
Art," a more telling anagram of the name is "'ere: sod off, Art N."
> bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Always a good idea to know if there is a Robin Hood or just
> > Merry Men in the Forest of Arden before venturing through.
> There's one FAN-TOM, at least.
And if you joined, one fan-tod, Art.
[...]
> bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Actually, to defend ourselves, h.l.a.s. ought to send a spy or two
> > into this Forest to stir up divisiveness, instigate rebellion,
> > and demean and denigrate their sheeple.
> The 'sheeple' of Toronto have spoken and Ontario gets another coat of
> red paint.
Huh?
> bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > I think we have some who would be good at it.
> > By rights, we should collect taxes from these pirates.
> I am set naked in their kingdom.
"Dr." Faker is plainly an exhibitionist, but I neVER suspected you
of the same vice, Art. Does St. Carolyn know?
> bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Sheriff of Nottingham
> They invited KQKnave but not bookburn!
There's no reason for him to misbehave, since the Forest of Arden
has no certifiable moron posting the same cretinous crap oVER and oVER
and oVER who might provoke a response in kind from KQKnave.
> Oh, the humanities!
What the Forest of Arden was founded to aVERt was something rather
different, Art: "On, the inANities!"
> Art Neuendorffer
book...@yahoo.com
I, of course, didn't mean for my private message to appear here
uncoded. Usually, Tom-Tom Reedy is good about uttering short, cryptic
cyber links of some sort not easily decoded, but I knew he was in
Arden, probably flitting naked from tree to tree in abandon and
ecstasy of cavort.
book...@yahoo.com
Excellent! I hope you'll shine for them and get some insider
information for us, something on the Annual Conference would be
amusing; or perhaps something enlightening about the coming revolution
in re-dating the Tempest. Let us know if you need any suggestions for
chatting/insinuating yourself with Ms. Mouse and Dr. S.. We need to
know more about their use of special handshakes, beastly initiations,
exquisite tortures, seduction techniques, etc.. bb
>
>TR
KCL
True, of late this fellow Pistol hath brought us nearer heaven than
when you saw us last, by the altitude of a chopine.
KCL, the romantic
>
> TR- Hide quoted text -
art
>
>>> I was the original owner. I advised folks the motto
>>> of the group was to be "more matter and less Art."
>>> I'm happy to see the Forest of Arden is still open,
>>> and I wish it well with its new owners.
> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not a whole lot of "matter" since last December:
>> ----------------------------------
>> FoA posts:
>> ....................................
>> ____ jan Feb mar Apr may Jun jul Aug sep Oct nov Dec
>> 2007 414 739 555 461 386 199 115 191 171 250 177 006
>> 2008 019 056 018 033 005 053 002
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> That's because the Forest of Arden lacks a certifiable moron
> who deluges the group with the same cretinous crap posted
> oVER and oVER and oVER.
Well, Dave, you WERE invited to participate
. but I guess you were put off by Rule #1:
1. While we encourage lively and even sharp debate, no insulting
remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
one warning.
------------------------------------------------------------
.
> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It will be interesting to see if the activity picks up
>> a little now that FoA has come out of the closet:
>> ----------------------------------
>> Top FoA posters All time
>> .
>> 886 Mouse
>> 777 Tom Reedy
>> 312 bobgrum...@nut-n-but.net
>> 203 Jim KQKnave
>> 193 Touchstone
>> 174 KCL
>> 158 John H
>> 106 Nessus
>> 101 The Historian
>> 89 montive...@bigpond.com
>> ....................................
>> Fool: Speak *LESS than THOU KNOWEST* ,
>> . Lend *LESS* than thou owest,
>> . Ride more than thou goest,
>> . Learn more than thou trowest,
>> . Set *LESS* than thou throwest;
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> If Oxford had written those lines, there surely have been another
> line, an exhortation to Orazio Cogno: Sing less than thou blowest.
Why would he want Orazio *COGNO* to blow something?
Hamlet: *I KNEW him, HORATIO* [ *COGNObbi* : *I KNEW* ]
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> But I suspect that you comprehend quite clearly why you are not a
> member of the new group, Art -- if you were, it would degenerate
> precipitously from the For'st of Arden to the Worst of Art N.
------------------------------------------------------
______ *WORSE* = *VERRE* (Norwegian)
______ *WORST* = *VERST* (Norwegian)
-------------------------------------------------------
. King Henry VI, Part ii Act 2, Scene 3
.
YORK: I nEVER saw a fellow *WORSE* bested,
.
. Act 3, Scene 1
.
QUEEN MARGARET: Thy fortune, York, hadst thou been regent there,
Might happily have proved far *WORSE* than his.
.
YORK: What, *WORSE* than nought? nay, then, a shame take all!
------------------------------------------------------
______ *WORSE* = *VÆRRE* (Danish)
______ *WORST* = *VÆRST* (Danish)
---------------------------------------------------------
. Hamlet, Prince of Denmark Act 2, Scene 2
.
HAMLET:
A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
. WARDS and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the *WORST*.
.
. Act 3, Scene 2
.
OPHELIA: Still better, and *WORSE* .
.
. Act 3, Scene 4
.
HAMLET: O, throw away the *WORSEr* part of it,
And live the purer with the other half.
[Pointing to POLONIUS]
I do repent: but heaven hath pleased it so,
To punish me with this and this with me,
That I must be their scourge and minister.
I will bestow him, and will answer well
The death I gave him. So, again, good night.
I must be cruel, only to be kind:
Thus bad begins and *WORSE* remains behind.
.
. Act 5, Scene 2
.
HAMLET: Sir, in my heart there was a kind of fighting,
That would not let me sleep: methought I lay
*WORSE* than the mutines in the bilboes.
------------------------------------------------------
______ *WORSE* = *VÄRRE* (Swedish)
______ *WORSE* = *VERRI* (Icelandic)
.
______ *WORST* = *VÄRST* (Swedish)
______ *WORST* = *VERSTUR* (Icelandic)
................................................
. King Lear Act 4, Scene 1
.
EDGAR: I am *WORSE* than E'ER I was.
.
EDGAR [Aside] And *WORSE* I may be yet: the *WORST* is not
. So long as we can say 'This is the *WORST*.'
-------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 110
.
Alas, 'tis *TRUE* I have gone *HERE* and there
And made myself a motley to the *VIEw*
Gored mine own thoughts, sold cheap what is most dear,
Made old offences of affections new;
Most *TRUE* it is that I have look'd on *TRUTH*
Askance and strangely: but, by all above,
These blenches gave my heart another youth,
And *WORSE* essays proved thee my best of love.
--------------------------------------------------------------
<<Shakespeare's style is evident [in _Edward III_] in a scene
in which a nobleman advises his daughter in a grave list
of school-like 'sententiai' on the corruption of power:
.
...poison shows *WORST* in a golden cup;
Dark night seems darker by the lightning flash;
*LILIES that fester smell far WORSE than WEEDS* .'
.
Shakespeare used the last line, word for word, in Sonnet 94.>>
.
- p.170 _Shakespeare a life_ by Park Honan.
---------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 94
.
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
*LILIES that fester smell far WORSE than WEEDS*
---------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 59
.
O, sure I am, the wits of former days
To subjects *WORSE* have given admiring praise.
---------------------------------------------------------
. Sonnet 84
.
But he that writes of you, if he can tell
*THAT YOU ARE YOU* , so dignifies his story,
Let him but copy what in you is writ,
Not making *WORSE* what nature made so clear,
And such a counterpart shall fame his wit,
Making his style admired EVERy where.
You to your beauteous blessings add a curse,
Being fond on praise, which makes your praises *WORSE*.
---------------------------------------------------------
. King Richard II Act 2, Scene 2
.
*GREEN* : Ah, madam, 'tis too *TRUE*: and that is *WORSE*,
---------------------------------------------------------
. King Henry IV, Part ii Prologue
.
RUMOUR: from Rumour's tongues
They bring smooth comforts false,
*WORSE* than *TRUE* wrongs.
.
. Act 1, Scene 2
.
FALSTAFF: Though it be a shame to be on any side but one,
it is *WORSE* shame to beg than to be on the *WORST* side,
were it *WORSE* than the name of rebellion can tell
how to make it.
.
. Act 4, Scene 2
.
MOWBRAY: So much the *WORSE*, if your own rule be *TRUE*.
---------------------------------------------------------
. The Taming of the Shrew Act 1, Scene 2
.
PETRUCHIO: As old as Sibyl and as curst and shrewd
As Socrates' Xanthippe, or a *WORSE*,
.
. Act 4, Scene 4
.
Pedant: No *WORSE* than I,
.
. Act 5, Scene 2
.
GREMIO: Ay, and a kind one too:
Pray God, sir, your wife send you not a *WORSE*.
.
PETRUCHIO: *WORSE* and *WORSE*;
---------------------------------------------------------
. The Comedy of Errors Act 4, Scene 2
.
ADRIANA: I cannot, nor I will not, hold me still;
My tongue, though not my heart, shall have his will.
He is deformed, crooked, old and sere,
Ill-faced, *WORSE bodied* , SHAPELESS EVERywhere;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind;
Stigmatical in making, *WORSE* in mind.
---------------------------------------------------------
. Love's Labour's Lost Act 5, Scene 2
.
ROSALINE: They are *WORSE fools* to purchase mocking so.
.
ROSALINE: There, then, that vizard; that superfluous case
That hid the *WORSE* and show'd the better face.
.
BIRON: We are shame-proof, my lord: and tis some policy
To have one show *WORSE* than the king's and his company.
---------------------------------------------------------
. A Midsummer Night's Dream Act 5, Scene 1
.
THESEUS: The best in this kind are but shadows; and
the *WORST* are no *WORSE*, if imagination amend them.
.
THESEUS: If we imagine no *WORSE* of them than they
of themselves, they may pass for excellent men.
*HERE* come two noble beasts in, a man and a lion.
.
. The Merchant of Venice Act 1, Scene 2
.
PORTIA: VERy VILEly in the morning, when he is sober,
and most vilely in the afternoon, when he is drunk:
when he is best, he is a little *WORSE* than a man, and
when he is *WORST*, he is little better than a beast:
and the *WORST* fall that EVER fell, I hope I shall
make shift to go without him.
.
. Act 3, Scene 2
.
PORTIA: What, *WORSE* and *WORSE*!
.
BASSANIO:
O sweet Portia, *HERE* are a few of the unpleasant'st words
*That EVER BLOTted paper* ! Gentle lady,
When I did first impart my love to you,
I freely told you, all the wealth I had
Ran in my veins, I was a gentleman;
And then I told you *TRUE*: and yet, dear lady,
Rating myself at nothing, you shall see
How much I was a braggart. When I told you
My state was nothing, I should then have told you
That I was *WORSE* than nothing;
---------------------------------------------------------
. The Merry Wives of Windsor Act 1, Scene 4
.
MISTRESS QUICKLY: Well, heaven send Anne Page no *WORSE* fortune!
---------------------------------------------------------
. Much Ado About Nothing Act 1, Scene 1
.
BEATRICE: Scratching could not make it *WORSE*,
. an 'twere such a face as yours were.
.
. Act 2, Scene 3
.
CLAUDIO To what end? He would make but a sport of it
. and torment the poor lady *WORSE*.
.
. Act 3, Scene 2
.
DON JOHN: The word is too good to paint out her wickedness;
I could say she were *WORSE*: think you of a *WORSE*
title, and I will fit her to it.
---------------------------------------------------------
. As You Like It Act 1, Scene 3
.
ROSALIND: I'll have no *WORSE a name* than Jove's own page;
.
. Act 3, Scene 3
.
JAQUES [Aside] O knowledge ill-inhabited,
. *WORSE* than Jove in a thatched house!
---------------------------------------------------------
. Twelfth Night Act 3, Scene 4
.
MALVOLIO: O, ho! do you come near me now?
. no *WORSE* man than Sir Toby to look to me!
.
. Act 4, Scene 1
.
SEBASTIAN: foolish Greek, depart from me:
. There's money for thee: if you tarry longer,
. I shall give *WORSE* payment.
.
. Act 5, Scene 1
.
Clown: *TRULY* , sir, the better for my foes
. and the *WORSE* for my friends.
.
Clown: No, sir, the *WORSE*.
.
Clown: Marry, sir, they praise me and make an ass of me;
now my foes tell me plainly I am an ass: so that by
my foes, sir I profit in the knowledge of myself,
and by my friends, I am abused: so that,
conclusions to be as kisses, if your four negatives
make your two affirmatives why then, the *WORSE*
for my friends and the better for my foes.
---------------------------------------------------------
. All's Well That Ends Well Act 2, Scene 1
.
HELENA: Tax of impudence,
A strumpet's boldness, a divulged shame
Traduced by odious ballads: my maiden's name
Sear'd otherwise; nay, *WORSE*--if *WORSE*--extended
With VLEst torture let my life be ended.
.
. Act 2, Scene 2
.
Clown: I nE'ER had *WORSE* luck in my life in my 'O Lord,
sir!' I see things may serve long, but not serve EVER.
---------------------------------------------------------
. Pericles Prince of Tyre Act 1, Prologue
.
. Bad child; *WORSE* father!
---------------------------------------------------------
. The Winter's Tale Act 1, Scene 2
.
POLIXENES: *WORSE* than the great'st infection
That E'ER was heard or read!
.
. Act 5, Scene 1
.
LEONTES: Thou speak'st *TRUTH*.
No more such wives; therefore, no wife: one *WORSE*,
---------------------------------------------------------
. Cymbeline Act 3, Scene 3
.
BELARIUS: I' the name of fame and honour;
. which dies i'the search,
And hath as oft a slanderous epitaph
As record of fair act; nay, many times,
Doth ill deserve by doing well; what's *WORSE*,
Must court'sy at the censure:--O boys,
*this story The world may read in me*
-----------------------------------------------------
. The Tempest Act 1, Scene 2
.
PROSPERO: Thy mother was a piece of virtue, and
She said thou wast my daughter; and thy father
Was Duke of Milan; and thou his only heir
And princess no *WORSE* issued.
---------------------------------------------------------
. TITUS ANDRONICUS Act 5, Scene 2
.
TITUS ANDRONICUS:
For *WORSE* than Philomel you used my daughter,
And *WORSE* than Progne I will be REVEnged:
.
. Act 5, Scene 3
.
AARON: O, why should wrath be mute, and fury dumb?
I am no baby, I, that with base prayers
I should repent the evils I have done:
Ten thousand *WORSE* than EVER yet I did
*Would I perform, if I might have my WILL* ;
If one good deed in all my life I did,
*I do repent it from my VERy soul*
-------------------------------------------------
. Romeo and Juliet Act 2, Scene 4
.
ROMEO: I am the youngest of that name, for fault of a *WORSE*.
---------------------------------------------------------
. Othello, The Moor of Venice Act 1, Scene 1
.
BRABANTIO:
The *WORSEr* welcome:
.
. Act 1, Scene 3
.
DUKE OF VENICE: When remedies are past, the griefs are ended
.
By seeing the *WORST*, which late on hopes depended.
.
. Act 2, Scene 1
.
DESDEMONA:
O heavy ignorance! thou praisest the *WORST* best.
.
But what praise couldst thou bestow on a DEsERVing
.
woman indeed, one that, in the authority of her
.
merit, did justly put on the vouch of VERy malice itself?
.
DESDEMONA: *WORSE* and *WORSE*.
.
. Act 3, Scene 3
.
OTHELLO: I prithee, speak to me as to thy thinkings,
.
As thou dost ruminate, and give thy *WORST* of thoughts
.
The *WORST* of words.
.
. Act 4, Scene 1
.
CASSIO:
The *WORSEr* that you give me the addition
.
Whose want even kills me.
.
IAGO: 'Faith, that was not so well; yet would I knew
.
That stroke would prove the *WORST*!
.
IAGO: She's the *WORSE* for all this.
.
. Act 5, Scene 2
.
EMILIA:
Do thy *WORST*:
---------------------------------------------------------
. King Lear Act 2, Scene 4
KING LEAR: Those wicked creatures yet do look well-favour'd,
.
When others are more wicked: not being the *WORST*
.
Stands in some rank of praise.
.
. Act 4, Scene 1
.
EDGAR: To be *WORST*,
.
The lowest and most dejected thing of fortune,
.
Stands still in esperance, lives not in fear:
.
The lamentable change is from the best;
.
The *WORST* returns to laughter. Welcome, then,
.
Thou unsubstantial air that I embrace!
.
The wretch that thou hast blown unto the *WORST*
.
Owes nothing to thy blasts. But *WHO COMES HERE* ?
.
. Act 4, Scene 6
.
KING LEAR: No, do thy *WORST*, blind Cupid!
.
GLOUCESTER:
You eVER-gentle gods, take my breath from me:
.
Let not my *WORSEr* spirit tempt me again
.
To die before you please!
.
. Act 4, Scene 7
.
CORDELIA: These weeds are memories of those *WORSEr* hours:
.
I prithee, put them off.
.
. Act 5, Scene 3
.
CORDELIA:
We are not the first
.
Who, with best meaning, have incurr'd the *WORST*.
.
EDGAR: Whilst I was big in clamour came there in a man,
.
Who, having seen me in my *WORST* estate,
.
Shunn'd my abhorr'd society; but then, finding
.
Who 'twas that so endured, with his strong arms
.
He fastened on my neck, and bellow'd out
.
As he'ld burst heaven; threw him on my father;
.
Told the most piteous tale of Lear and him
.
That *EVER EAR REcEiVED:
.
.
. Act 4, Scene 2
.
OSWALD: Madam, within; but nEVER man so changed.
I told him of the army that was landed;
He smiled at it: I told him you were coming:
His answer was 'The *WORSE*:'
.
. Act 5, Scene 3
.
ALBANY: Shut your mouth, dame,
Or with this paper shall I stop it: Hold, sir:
Thou *WORSE* than any name, read thine own evil:
No tearing, lady: I perceive you know it.
-----------------------------------------------
King Henry VI, Part ii Act 1, Scene 3
QUEEN MARGARET: The VERy train of her *WORST* wearing gown
Was better worth than all my father's lands,
Till Suffolk gave two dukedoms for his daughter.
-----------------------------------------------
King Henry VI, Part iii Act 4, Scene 1
KING EDWARD IV: Yet am I arm'd against the *WORST* can happen;
Act 4, Scene 6
SOMERSET: Therefore, *Lord Oxford* , to prevent the *WORST*,
Forthwith we'll send him hence to Brittany,
Till storms be past of civil enmity.
-----------------------------------------------
King Henry VI, Part i Act 4, Scene 1
KING HENRY VI: Is that the *WORST* this letter doth contain?
GLOUCESTER:
It is the *WORST*, and all, my lord, he writes.
Act 5, Scene 3
JOAN LA PUCELLE Changed to a *WORSEr* shape thou canst not be.
-----------------------------------------------
King Richard III Act 1, Scene 3
GLOUCESTER: I wish your grandam had a *WORSEr* match.
Act 2, Scene 3
First Citizen: Come, come, we fear the *WORST*; all shall be well.
-----------------------------------------------
King Richard II Act 2, Scene 3
DUKE OF YORK: Even in condition of the *WORST* degree,
In gross rebellion and detested treason:
Thou art a banish'd man, and here art come
Before the expiration of thy time,
In braving arms against thy soVEREign.
Act 3, Scene 2
KING RICHARD II: Mine ear is open and my heart prepared;
.
The *WORST* is worldly loss thou canst unfold.
.....
.
Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay:
.
The *WORST* is death, and death will have his day.
.
SIR STEPHEN SCROOP: those whom you curse
Have felt the *WORST* of death's destroying wound
And lie full low, graved in the hollow ground.
SIR STEPHEN SCROOP: My tongue hath but a heavier tale to say.
I play the torturer, by small and small
To lengthen out the *WORST* that must be spoken:
Your uncle York is join'd with Bolingbroke,
And all your northern castles yielded up,
Act 4, Scene 1
BISHOP OF CARLISLE Marry. God forbid!
*WORST* in this royal presence may I speak,
Yet best beseeming me to speak the *TRUTH* .
Would God that any in this noble presence
Were enough noble to be upright judge
Of noble Richard! then *TRUE* noblesse would
Learn him forbearance from so foul a wrong.
-----------------------------------------------
King John Act 4, Scene 2
BASTARD: But if you be afeard to hear the *WORST*,
Then let the *WORST* unheard fall on your bead.
Act 4, Scene 3
SALISBURY
The king hath dispossess'd himself of us:
We will not line his thin bestained cloak
With our pure honours, nor attend the foot
That leaves the print of blood where'er it walks.
Return and tell him so: we know the *WORST*.
-----------------------------------------------
King Henry IV, Part i Act 1, Scene 1
WESTMORELAND: when all athwart there came
A post from Wales loaden with heavy news;
Whose *WORST* was, that the noble Mortimer,
Leading the men of Herefordshire to fight
Against the irregular and wild Glendower,
Was by the rude hands of that Welshman taken,
A thousand of his people butchered;
Upon whose dead corpse there was such misuse,
Such beastly shameless transformation,
By those Welshwomen done as may not be
Without much shame retold or spoken of.
Act 4, Scene 1
EARL OF DOUGLAS That's the *WORST* tidings that I hear of yet.
Act 4, Scene 4
ARCHBISHOP OF YORK I hope no less, yet needful 'tis to fear;
And, to prevent the *WORST*, Sir Michael, speed:
For if Lord Percy thrive not, ere the king
Dismiss his power, he means to visit us,
For he hath heard of our confederacy,
And 'tis but wisdom to make strong against him:
Therefore make haste. I must go write again
To other friends; and so farewell, Sir Michael.
-----------------------------------------------
King Henry IV, Part ii Act 1, Scene 3
ARCHBISHOP OF YORK: O thoughts of men accursed!
Past and to come seems best; things present *WORST*.
Act 4, Scene 5
PRINCE HENRY: thou best of gold art *WORST* of gold:
Other, less fine in carat, is more precious,
Preserving life in medicine potable;
Act 5, Scene 2
WARWICK: *HERE* come the heavy issue of dead Harry:
O that the living Harry had the temper
Of him, the *WORST* of these three gentlemen!
How many nobles then should hold their places
That must strike sail to spirits of vile sort!
-----------------------------------------------
King Henry V Act 3, Scene 3
KING HENRY V: Defy us to our *WORST*: for, as I am a soldier,
A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,
Act 5, Scene 2
KING HENRY V: thou hast me,
if thou hast me, at the *WORST*; and thou
shalt wear me, if thou wear me, better and better:
-----------------------------------------------
King Henry VIII Act 1, Scene 1
NORFOLK:
Then you lost
The view of earthly glory: men might say,
Till this time pomp was single, but now married
To one above itself. Each following day
Became the next day's master, till the last
Made former wonders its. To-day the French,
All clinquant, all in gold, like heathen gods,
Shone down the English; and, to-morrow, they
Made Britain India: eVERy man that stood
Show'd like a mine. Their dwarfish pages were
As cherubins, all guilt: the madams too,
Not used to toil, did almost sweat to bear
The pride upon them, that their VERy labour
Was to them as a painting: now this masque
Was cried incomparable; and the ensuing night
Made it a fool and beggar. The two kings,
Equal in lustre, were now best, now *WORST*,
As presence did present them; him in eye,
Still him in praise: and, being present both
'Twas said they saw but one; and no discerner
Durst wag his tongue in censure. When these suns--
For so they phrase 'em--by their heralds challenged
The noble spirits to arms, they did perform
Beyond thought's compass; that former fabulous story,
Being now seen possible enough, got credit,
That Bevis was believed.
Act 1, Scene 2
CARDINAL WOLSEY: What we oft do best,
By sick interpreters, once weak ones, is
Not ours, or not allow'd; what *WORST*, as oft,
Hitting a grosser quality, is cried up
For our best act. If we shall stand still,
In fear our motion will be mock'd or carp'd at,
We should take root HERE where we sit, or sit
State-statues only.
Act 3, Scene 1
QUEEN KATHARINE: Your graces find me HERE part of a housewife,
I would be all, against the *WORST* may happen.
What are your pleasures with me, rEVEREnD lords?
Act 3, Scene 2
CARDINAL WOLSEY: Speak on, sir;
I dare your *WORST* objections: if I blush,
It is to see a nobleman want manners.
CROMWELL: The heaviest and the *WORST*
Is your displeasure with the king.
Act 5, Scene 3
GARDINER: I cry your honour mercy; you may, *WORST*
Of all this table, say so.
-----------------------------------------------
The Two Gentlemen of VERona Act 2, Scene 3
LAUNCE: This shoe is my father: no, this left shoe is my father:
no, no, this left shoe is my mother: nay, that
cannot be so neither: yes, it is so, it is so, it
hath the *WORSEr* sole.
Act 5, Scene 4
VALENTINE: O time most accurst,
'Mongst all foes that a friend should be the *WORST*!
-----------------------------------------------
The Taming of the Shrew Act 1, Scene 2
GRUMIO: And then I know after who *COMES by the WORST*
GRUMIO: two and thirty, a pip out? Whom would to God I had
well knock'd at first, Then had not Grumio come by the *WORST*.
HORTENSIO: were my state far *WORSEr* than it is,
I would not wed her for a mine of gold.
GRUMIO:
Katharina the curst!
.
A title for a maid of all titles the *WORST*.
.
. Act 4, Scene 2
.
TRANIO: And think it not the *WORST* of an your fortunes
That you are like to Sir Vincentio.
His name and credit shall you undertake,
And in my house you shall be friendly lodged:
Act 4, Scene 4
TRANIO
Then at my lodging, an it like you:
There doth my father lie; and there, this night,
We'll pass the business privately and well.
Send for your daughter by your servant here:
My boy shall fetch the scrivener presently.
The *WORST* is this, that, at so slender warning,
You are like to have a thin and slender pittance.
-----------------------------------------------
Love's Labour's Lost Act 1, Scene 1
FERDINAND:
Ay, the best for the *WORST*.
Act 3, Scene 1
BIRON: Nay, to be perjured, which is *WORST* of all;
And, among three, to love the *WORST* of all;
-----------------------------------------------
A Midsummer Night's Dream Act 1, Scene 1
HERMIA: I beseech your grace that I may know
The *WORST* that may befall me in this case,
Act 2, Scene 1
HELENA: What *WORSEr* place can I beg in your love,--
And yet a place of high respect with me,--
Than to be used as you use your dog?
----------------------------------------------
The Merchant of Venice Act 1, Scene 2
PORTIA:
Therefore, for fear of the *WORST*, I pray thee, set a
deep GLASS of rhenish wine on the contrary casket,
-----------------------------------------------
The Merry Wives of Windsor Act 1, Scene 4
MISTRESS QUICKLY: An honest, willing, kind fellow, as eVER servant
shall come in house withal, and, I warrant you, no
tell-tale nor no breed-bate: his *WORST* fault is,
that he is given to prayer; he is something peevish
that way: but nobody but has his fault; but let
that pass. Peter Simple, you say your name is?
-----------------------------------------------
As You Like It Act 3, Scene 2
JAQUES:
The *WORST* fault you have is to be in love.
-----------------------------------------------
Troilus and Cressida Act 2, Scene 2
HECTOR
Though no man lesser fears the Greeks than I
As far as toucheth my particular,
Yet, dread Priam,
There is no lady of more softer bowels,
More spongy to suck in the sense of fear,
More ready to cry out 'Who knows what follows?'
Than Hector is: the wound of peace is surety,
Surety secure; but modest doubt is call'd
The beacon of the wise, the tent that searches
To the bottom of the *WORST*. Let Helen go:
Since the first sword was drawn about this question,
EVERy tithe soul, 'mongst many thousand dismes,
Hath been as dear as Helen; I mean, of ours:
If we have lost so many tenths of ours,
To guard a thing not ours nor worth to us,
Had it our name, the value of one ten,
What merit's in that reason which denies
The yielding of her up?
Act 3, Scene 2
TROILUS
Are there such? such are not we: praise us as we
are tasted, allow us as we prove; our head shall go
bare till merit crown it: no perfection in reVERsion
shall have a praise in present: we will not name
desert before his birth, and, being born, his addition
shall be humble. Few words to fair faith: Troilus
shall be such to Cressid as what envy can say *WORST*
shall be a mock for his *TRUTH*, and what *TRUTH* can
speak *TRUEst* not *TRUEr* than Troilus.
-----------------------------------------------
Measure for Measure Act 2, Scene 1
POMPEY:
I'll be supposed upon a book, his face is the *WORST*
thing about him. Good, then; if his face be the
*WORST* thing about him, how could Master Froth do the
constable's wife any harm?
Act 3, Scene 2
POMPEY
'Twas neVER merry world since, of two usuries, the
merriest was put down, and the *WORSEr* allowed by
order of law a furred gown to keep him warm; and
furred with fox and lamb-skins too, to signify, that
craft, being richer than innocency, stands for the facing.
----------------------------------------------
Pericles Prince of Tyre Act 2, Scene 5
PERICLES: The *WORST* of all her scholars, my good lord.
Act 3, Scene 1
PERICLES: I do not fear the flaw;
It hath done to me the *WORST*.
Act 4, Scene 3
CLEON: Of all the faults beneath the heavens, the gods
Do like this *WORST*.
-----------------------------------------------
The Winter's Tale Act 2, Scene 3
PAULINA: And would by combat make her good, so were I
A man, the *WORST* about you.
Act 3, Scene 2
PAULINA: what old or newer torture
Must I receive, whose EVERy word DEsERVEs
To taste of thy most *WORST*?
Act 4, Scene 4
Servant: One three of them, by their own report, sir, hath
danced before the king; and not the *WORST* of the
three but jumps twelve foot and a half by the squier.
CAMILLO: Why, be so still; here's nobody will steal that from
thee: yet for the outside of thy poVERty we must
make an exchange; therefore discase thee instantly,
--thou must think there's a necessity in't,--and
change garments with this gentleman: though the
pennyworth on his side be the *WORST*, yet hold thee,
there's some boot.
-----------------------------------------------
Cymbeline Act 2, Scene 3
IMOGEN:
She's my good lady, and will conceive, I hope,
But the *WORST* of me. So, I leave you, sir,
To the *WORST* of discontent.
-----------------------------------------------
The Tempest Act 4, Scene 1
FERDINAND: Our *WORSEr* genius can, shall neVER melt
Mine honour into lust, to take away
The edge of that day's celebration
When I shall think: or Phoebus' steeds are founder'd,
Or Night kept chain'd below.
-----------------------------------------------
Romeo and Juliet Act 2, Scene 3
FRIAR LAURENCE: O, mickle is the powerful grace that lies
In herbs, plants, stones, and their *TRUE* qualities:
For nought so vile that on the earth doth live
But to the earth some special good doth give,
Nor aught so good but strain'd from that fair use
Revolts from *TRUE* birth, stumbling on abuse:
Virtue itself turns vice, being misapplied;
And vice sometimes by action dignified.
Within the infant rind of this small flower
Poison hath residence and medicine power:
For this, being smelt, with that part cheers each part;
Being tasted, slays all senses with the heart.
Two such opposed kings encamp them still
In man as well as herbs, grace and rude will;
And where the *WORSEr* is predominant,
Full soon the canker death eats up that plant.
Act 2, Scene 4
MERCUTIO: Yea, is the *WORST* well?
VERy well took, i' faith; wisely, wisely.
Act 3, Scene 2
JULIET: Some word there was, *WORSEr* than Tybalt's death,
That murder'd me:
-----------------------------------------------
Julius Caesar Act 4, Scene 3
CASSIUS: Strike, as thou didst at Caesar; for, I know,
When thou didst hate him *WORST*, thou lovedst him better
Than eVER thou lovedst Cassius.
Act 5, Scene 1
CASSIUS: Let's reason with the *WORST* that may befall.
If we do lose this battle, then is this
The VERy last time we shall speak together:
What are you then determined to do?
-----------------------------------------------
Timon of Athens Act 1, Scene 2
APEMANTUS: 'Faith, for the *WORST* is filthy;
and would not hold taking, I doubt me.
Act 3, Scene 5
First Senator: He's *TRULY* valiant that can wisely suffer
The *WORST* that man can breathe, and make his wrongs
His outsides, to wear them like his raiment,
carelessly,
And ne'er prefer his injuries to his heart,
To bring it into danger.
If wrongs be evils and enforce us kill,
What folly 'tis to hazard life for ill!
Act 4, Scene 2
FLAVIUS: Poor honest lord, brought low by his own heart,
Undone by goodness! Strange, unusual blood,
When man's *WORST* sin is, he does too much good!
I'll EVER sERVE his mind with my best WILL;
Whilst I have gold, I'll be his steward still.
Act 4, Scene 3
APEMANTUS
If thou didst put this sour-cold habit on
To castigate thy pride, 'twere well: but thou
Dost it enforcedly; thou'ldst courtier be again,
Wert thou not beggar. Willing misery
Outlives encertain pomp, is crown'd before:
The one is filling still, neVER complete;
The other, at high wish: best state, contentless,
Hath a distracted and most wretched being,
Worse than the *WORST*, content.
Thou shouldst desire to die, being miserable.
TIMON
Not by his breath that is more miserable.
Thou art a slave, whom Fortune's tender arm
With favour neVER clasp'd; but bred a dog.
Hadst thou, like us from our first swath, proceeded
The sweet degrees that this brief world affords
To such as may the passive drugs of it
Freely command, thou wouldst have plunged thyself
In general riot; melted down thy youth
In different beds of lust; and neVER learn'd
The icy precepts of respect, but follow'd
The sugar'd game before thee. But myself,
Who had the world as my confectionary,
The mouths, the tongues, the eyes and hearts of men
At duty, more than I could frame employment,
That numberless upon me stuck as leaves
Do on the oak, hive with one winter's brush
Fell from their boughs and left me open, bare
For eVERy storm that blows: I, to bear this,
That neVER knew but better, is some burden:
Thy nature did commence in sufferance, time
Hath made thee hard in't. Why shouldst thou hate men?
They neVER flatter'd thee: what hast thou given?
If thou wilt curse, thy father, that poor rag,
Must be thy subject, who in spite put stuff
To some she beggar and compounded thee
Poor rogue hereditary. Hence, be gone!
If thou hadst not been born the *WORST* of men,
Thou hadst been a knave and flatterer.
Act 5, Scene 1
TIMON
Well, sir, I will; therefore, I will, sir; thus:
If Alcibiades kill my countrymen,
Let Alcibiades know this of Timon,
That Timon cares not. But if be sack fair Athens,
And take our goodly aged men by the beards,
Giving our holy virgins to the stain
Of contumelious, beastly, mad-brain'd war,
Then let him know, and tell him Timon speaks it,
In pity of our aged and our youth,
I cannot choose but tell him, that I care not,
And let him take't at *WORST*; for their knives care not,
While you have throats to answer: for myself,
There's not a whittle in the unruly camp
But I do prize it at my love before
The reVERend'st throat in Athens. So I leave you
To the protection of the prosperous gods,
As thieves to keepers.
-----------------------------------------------
Macbeth Act 3, Scene 1
MACBETH: Now, if you have a station in the file,
Not i' the *WORST* rank of manhood, say 't;
Act 3, Scene 2
MACBETH: Treason has done his *WORST*: nor steel, nor poison,
Malice domestic, foreign levy, nothing,
Can touch him further.
Act 3, Scene 4
MACBETH: for now I am bent to know, By the *WORST* means, the *WORST*.
Act 4, Scene 2
ROSS:
Shall not be long but I'll be *HERE* again:
Things at the *WORST* will cease, or else climb upward
To what they were before.
-----------------------------------------------
Antony and Cleopatra Act 1, Scene 2
CHARMIAN: Our *WORSEr* thoughts heavens mend! Alexas,--come,
his fortune, his fortune! O, let him marry a woman
that cannot go, sweet Isis, I beseech thee! and let
her die too, and give him a worse! and let *WORST*
follow worse, till the *WORST* of all follow him
laughing to his grave, fifty-fold a cuckold! Good
Isis, hear me this prayer, though thou deny me a
matter of more weight; good Isis, I beseech thee!
MARK ANTONY: Well, what *WORST*?
Act 2, Scene 5
CLEOPATRA: I cannot hate thee *WORSEr* than I do,
If thou again say 'Yes.'
-----------------------------------------------
Coriolanus Act 1, Scene 1
MENENIUS: Thou rascal, that art *WORST* in blood to run,
Act 3, Scene 1
MENENIUS: Let me desire your company: he must come,
Or what is *WORST* will follow.
Act 5, Scene 2
MENENIUS: He that hath a will to die by himself fears it
not from another: let your general do his *WORST*.
-----------------------------------------------
The Rape of Lucrece Stanza 35-6
'Shameful it is; ay, if the fact be known:
Hateful it is; there is no hate in loving:
I'll beg her love; but she is own:
The *WORST* is but denial and reproving:
My will is strong, past reason's weak removing.
Who fears a sentence or an old man's saw
Shall by a painted cloth be kept in awe.'
Thus, graceless, holds he disputation
'Tween frozen conscience and hot-burning will,
And with good thoughts make dispensation,
Urging the *WORSEr* sense for vantage still;
Which in a moment doth confound and kill
All pure effects, and doth so far proceed,
That what is vile shows like a virtuous deed.
------------------------------------
Stanza 42
Within his thought her heavenly image sits,
And in the self-same seat sits Collatine:
That eye which looks on her confounds his wits;
That eye which him beholds, as more divine,
Unto a view so false will not incline;
But with a pure appeal seeks to the heart,
Which once corrupted takes the *WORSEr* part;
-----------------------------------------------
Stanza 47
But all these poor forbiddings could not stay him;
He in the *WORST* sense cons*TRUE*s their denial:
The doors, the wind, the glove, that did delay him,
He takes for accidental things of trial;
Or as those bars which stop the hourly dial,
Who with a lingering slay his course doth let,
Till eVERy minute pays the hour his debt.
-----------------------------------------------
Stanza 65
Imagine her as one in dead of night
From forth dull sleep by dreadful fancy waking,
That thinks she hath beheld some ghastly sprite,
Whose grim aspect sets eVERy joint a-shaking;
What terror or 'tis! but she, in *WORSEr* taking,
From sleep disturbed, heedfully doth view
The sight which makes supposed terror *TRUE*.
-----------------------------------------------
Sonnet 19
Yet, do thy *WORST*, old Time: despite thy wrong,
My love shall in my VERse eVER live young.
-----------------------------------------------
Sonnet 80
Then if he thrive and I be cast away,
The *WORST* was this; my love was my decay.
-----------------------------------------------
Sonnet 90
Then hate me when thou wilt; if eVER, now;
Now, while the world is bent my deeds to cross,
Join with the spite of fortune, make me bow,
And do not drop in for an after-loss:
Ah, do not, when my heart hath 'scoped this sorrow,
Come in the rearward of a conquer'd woe;
Give not a windy night a rainy morrow,
To linger out a purposed oVERthrow.
If thou wilt leave me, do not leave me last,
When other petty griefs have done their spite
But in the onset come; so shall I taste
At first the VERy *WORST* of fortune's might,
And other strains of woe, which now seem woe,
Compared with loss of thee will not seem so.
-----------------------------------------------
Sonnet 92
But do thy *WORST* to steal thyself away,
For term of life thou art assured mine,
And life no longer than thy love will stay,
For it depends upon that love of thine.
Then need I not to fear the *WORST* of wrongs,
When in the least of them my life hath end.
I see a better state to me belongs
Than that which on thy humour doth depend;
Thou canst not vex me with inconstant mind,
Since that my life on thy revolt doth lie.
O, what a happy title do I find,
Happy to have thy love, happy to die!
But what's so blessed-fair that fears no blot?
Thou mayst be false, and yet I know it not.
-----------------------------------------------
Sonnet 137
Thou blind fool, Love, what dost thou to mine eyes,
That they behold, and see not what they see?
They know what beauty is, see where it lies,
Yet what the best is take the *WORST* to be.
If eyes corrupt by oVER-partial looks
Be anchor'd in the bay where all men ride,
Why of eyes' falsehood hast thou forged hooks,
Whereto the judgment of my heart is tied?
Why should my heart think that a seVERal plot
Which my heart knows the wide world's common place?
Or mine eyes seeing this, say this is not,
To put fair *TRUTH* upon so foul a face?
In things right *TRUE* my heart and eyes have erred,
And to this false plague are they now transferr'd.
-----------------------------------------------
Sonnet 144
Two loves I have of comfort and despair,
Which like two spirits do suggest me still:
The better angel is a man right fair,
The *WORSEr* spirit a woman colour'd ill.
To win me soon to hell, my female evil
Tempteth my better angel from my side,
And would corrupt my saint to be a devil,
Wooing his purity with her foul pride.
And whether that my angel be turn'd fiend
Suspect I may, but not directly tell;
But being both from me, both to each friend,
I guess one angel in another's hell:
Yet this shall I ne'er know, but live in doubt,
Till my bad angel fire my good one out.
-----------------------------------------------
Sonnet 150
O, from what power hast thou this powerful might
With insufficiency my heart to sway?
To make me give the lie to my *TRUE* sight,
And swear that brightness doth not grace the day?
Whence hast thou this becoming of things ill,
That in the VERy refuse of thy deeds
There is such strength and warrantize of skill
That, in my mind, thy *WORST* all best exceeds?
Who taught thee how to make me love thee more
The more I hear and see just cause of hate?
O, though I love what others do abhor,
With others thou shouldst not abhor my state:
If thy unworthiness raised love in me,
More worthy I to be beloved of thee.
-----------------------------------------------
The Passionate Pilgrim Sonnet 2
Two loves I have, of comfort and despair,
That like two spirits do suggest me still;
My better angel is a man right fair,
My *WORSEr* spirit a woman colour'd ill.
To win me soon to hell, my female evil
Tempteth my better angel from my side,
And would corrupt my saint to be a devil,
Wooing his purity with her fair pride.
And whether that my angel be turn'd fiend,
Suspect I may, yet not directly tell:
For being both to me, both to each friend,
I guess one angel in another's hell;
The *TRUTH* I shall not know, but live in doubt,
Till my bad angel fire my good one out.
-----------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Greg Reynolds
> 1. While we encourage lively and even sharp debate, no insulting
> remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
> Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
> one warning.
You let a 'boob' slip and you get a warning.
You call a guy illiterate, and you're
deForest'd the rest of your life.
Pretty much a firewall to your whole argument, Art!
-Smokey the Br'er.
hj
> Excellent! I hope you'll shine for them and get some insider
> information for us, something on the Annual Conference would be
> amusing; or perhaps something enlightening about the coming revolution
> in re-dating the Tempest. Let us know if you need any suggestions for
> chatting/insinuating yourself with Ms. Mouse and Dr. S.. We need to
> know more about their use of special handshakes, beastly initiations,
> exquisite tortures, seduction techniques, etc.. bb
==> WHAT? There are beastly initiations, exquisite tortures, and
seduction techniques??!!
Whay didn't anyone TELL me!?!?!?!?!
hj (I wondered why everyone there went around smiling all the
time...)
art
>> remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
>> Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
>> one warning.
Greg Reynolds <even...@core.com> wrote:
>
> You let a 'boob' slip and you get a warning.
> You call a guy illiterate, and you're
> deForest'd the rest of your life.
>
> Pretty much a firewall to your whole argument, Art!
Except that (unlike Webb) I was never invited to join.
In fact, I was specifically targeted by insulting remarks,
name calling (or other ad hominem behavior)
as not being welcome under any circumstances:
----------------------------------------------------------
Richard III wrote FoA:
> My initial emails to new members summed up
> the Forest as "more matter and less Art."
book...@yahoo.com
wrote:
It's when they get up to ritually imitating some of the ruder scenes
of the canon that moderated groups might show their unsavory parts.
Hopefully, the Titus bits I heard they relish at conference dinners is
an exaggeration. bb
Tom Reedy
> >> 1. While we encourage lively and even sharp debate, no insulting
> >> remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
> >> Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
> >> one warning.
> Greg Reynolds <even...@core.com> wrote:
>
> > You let a 'boob' slip and you get a warning.
> > You call a guy illiterate, and you're
> > deForest'd the rest of your life.
>
> > Pretty much a firewall to your whole argument, Art!
>
> Except that (unlike Webb) I was never invited to join.
<snip>
Think of it this way: You have one venue with unlimited posting
privileges, one venue with limited posting privileges, and one venue
with really, really, really limited posting privileges. Or you could
think of it as a proactive revocation.
TR
Ignoto
>>> 1. While we encourage lively and even sharp debate, no insulting
>>> remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
>>> Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
>>> one warning.
>
> Greg Reynolds <even...@core.com> wrote:
>> You let a 'boob' slip and you get a warning.
>> You call a guy illiterate, and you're
>> deForest'd the rest of your life.
>>
>> Pretty much a firewall to your whole argument, Art!
>
> Except that (unlike Webb) I was never invited to join.
Why would they invite you to join? Who wants to wade through copious
amounts of crap?
> In fact, I was specifically targeted by insulting remarks,
> name calling (or other ad hominem behavior)
> as not being welcome under any circumstances:
You disrespect other people by treating HLAS as your own kitty litter,
they in turn disrespect you- I really don;t see how you can *expect* it
to be any other way- do you really think people are going to love you
for clogging up GG/their newsreaders/their message boards with your SPAM?
Christian Lanciai
Condemning as usual, Neil. You found out nothing since there was
nothing to find out. Jim found out that at least three hlas posters
used the same public office computers. From that certain stratfordians
came to the conclusion that these three people must be one person, and
they stuck to that idea, since it for some reason pleased them – they
saw me as a parallel case to John Baker and consequently saw red, but
for no reason. The fact that those two others were colleagues of mine
and had access to the same public office should have been explanation
enough. Instead, Tom Reedy insisted on my expulsion. With such
ornaments like you, Tom and Jim for the Forest of Arden, no wonder it
went into coma.
"If I had more than one face, do you really think I would be carrying
this one around?" – Abraham Lincoln.
C.
Le historien
Still waiting for an apology for your false statement I had anything
to do with getting you bounced from Forest of Arden. As for the group
allegedly being comatose, it is also free from Art N.'s spam, the
drivel of Chess One and Spinoza, Crowley's faux-erudition, the three
faces of Christian, and the presence of the resident SAT guru. I leave
it to the sagacity of the readers to decide which group they wish to
post in.
art
>>>> remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
>>>> Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
>>>> one warning.
>
>> Greg Reynolds <even...@core.com> wrote:
>>> You let a 'boob' slip and you get a warning.
>>> You call a guy illiterate, and you're
>>> deForest'd the rest of your life.
>
>>> Pretty much a firewall to your whole argument, Art!
> art wrote:
>>
>> Except that (unlike Webb) I was never invited to join.
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> Why would they invite you to join? Who wants
> to wade through copious amounts of crap?
I beg you pardon.
FoA has been dying since December..
so what's their problem?
.
> art wrote:
>>
>> In fact, I was specifically targeted by insulting remarks,
>> name calling (or other ad hominem behavior)
>> as not being welcome under any circumstances:
.
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> You disrespect other people by treating HLAS as your own kitty litter,
> they in turn disrespect you- I really don;t see how you can *expect* it
> to be any other way- do you really think people are going to love you for
> clogging up GG/their newsreaders/their message boards with your SPAM?
KQKnave does it under multiple names so he can't be killfilled
yet he was invited to FoA.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Richard III wrote FoA:
>
>>> My initial emails to new members summed up
>>> the Forest as "more matter and less Art."
Art Neuendorffer
art
>
>>> The issue is how we should treat shits
>>> -- of the nature of Art and Jim Carroll.
>>> Lynne is more tolerant than me.
> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Denying me Oxfordian status and putting me in
>> the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity
>> is hardly what I would call "tolerant" :
La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was not a manager at that time, so the decisions really had nothing
> to do with me. We were also in a situation where posters were
> suggesting a few more people for membership each week, but the
> "owners" had left the building and as regular members we didn't know
> how to get those people on. Several weeks ago I approached one of the
> old managers and asked if I could have the keys to the palace, so to
> speak. A couple of others joined me, we've opened Arden up, and we're
> willing to accept anyone who is reasonably polite and doesn't spam.
> Even if people spammed, for example, on hlas in the past, we'd
> probably be willing to give them a chance on Arden.
I'm not talking about not inviting me to Arden.
I'm talking about the following Arden post:
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> "Tom Reedy" <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote the FoA:
>>>> Why is it that physics guys are the ones with the most far-fetched
>>>> (I realize that is a relative term given our topic here) theories? You
>>>> have this guy, Art N., Mark Anderson--I wonder how many others?
>
>> On Sep 6, 11:47 am, Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> We don't have this guy. He is a Hastingsian or something. We don't
>>> really include Art either. For the most part he only espouses theories
>>> that he's made up himself and virtually no one else agrees with,
>>> as lackpurity does.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
La Mouse
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:04:06 -0700 (PDT), hj <h_jekyll2...@yahoo.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tongue of Strat in gooseberry sauce, yum! Stratford liver in giblet
gravy, with fava beeans, and a nice chianti. Scrumptious!
Hannibal the Oxfordian Mouse
La Mouse
You disagree with that? Here are some of your words:
The Tempest,
& III Henry VI Act 5, Scene 4 (of the Folio, 1623) & are all
contemporaneous (probably c. 1609). The words & imagery are
probably those of a living Edward de Vere 'shipwrecked'
on the Isle of Malta (a la "I am that I am" St. Paul).
You think Oxford lived till about 1611 in Malta after a shipwreck.
That's a very minority view. I've never even heard it elsewhere, and
imagine it came out of your own head. You think Tempest was written in
around 1609. That's pretty minority also, both with Strats and Oxies
for differing reasons. I've never seen that either. Oh, perhaps Andy
Gurr would allow that. You think WS didn't exist, don't you? That's
even more of a minority view. So most Oxfordians don't think of you as
a regular Oxfordian.
In any case, like everyone else, you're welcome to join as long as you
don't spam, or write long posts that are mostly off topic in the
middle of threads.
Mouse
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Art Neuendorffer- Hide quoted text -
Le historien
And how long do you think that will last? I suppose the SAT Guru, the
"nearly an IM 2450", and other nutters will be allowed to post in
Arden also?
La Mouse
>
> - Show quoted text -
It may last a long time. It may last one or two posts. But we gave Jim
a chance and he's behaved himself, so if Art applies, my guess is that
we'll do the same thing.
Mouse
Roger Nile Stratmanmatter
I behave myself here too, I'm just giving the nutters back what
they brought here.
The Droeshout portrait is not unusual at all!
http://hometown.aol.com/kqknave/shakenbake.html
See my demolition of Monsarrat's RES paper!
http://hometown.aol.com/kqknave/monsarr1.html
Agent Jim
art
>
>>>> The issue is how we should treat shits
>>>> -- of the nature of Art and Jim Carroll.
>>>> Lynne is more tolerant than me.
>>> .
>>>> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Denying me Oxfordian status and putting me in
>>>>> the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity
>>>>> is hardly what I would call "tolerant" :
>>> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> I was not a manager at that time, so the decisions really had nothing
>>>> to do with me. We were also in a situation where posters were
>>>> suggesting a few more people for membership each week, but the
>>>> "owners" had left the building and as regular members we didn't know
>>>> how to get those people on. Several weeks ago I approached one of the
>>>> old managers and asked if I could have the keys to the palace, so to
>>>> speak. A couple of others joined me, we've opened Arden up, and we're
>>>> willing to accept anyone who is reasonably polite and doesn't spam.
>>>> Even if people spammed, for example, on hlas in the past, we'd
>>>> probably be willing to give them a chance on Arden.
>> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not talking about not inviting me to Arden.
>>> I'm talking about the following Arden post:>>
-------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> "Tom Reedy" <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote the FoA:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is it that physics guys are the ones with the most far-fetched
>>>>> (I realize that is a relative term given our topic here) theories? You
>>>>> have this guy, Art N., Mark Anderson--I wonder how many others?
>
>>>>> On Sep 6, 11:47 am, Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> We don't have this guy. He is a Hastingsian or something.
>>>> We don't really include Art either. For the most part he only
>>>> espouses theories that he's made up himself and virtually
>>>> no one else agrees with, as lackpurity does.
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You disagree with that?
I disagree with being excluded from the set of Oxfordians and
then placed in the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity.
I do believe in major conspiracies, ciphers & faked deaths
and have provided extensive evidence supporting these ideas.
Orthodox Oxfordians consider such concepts as discredited and
beneath them but there is a small contingency of Oxfordians
(e.g., Michael Dunn, Nicole, etc.) who are open to such
ways of thing.
.
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Here are some of your words:
>
>> The Tempest,
>> & III Henry VI Act 5, Scene 4 (of the Folio, 1623) & are all
>> contemporaneous (probably c. 1609). The words & imagery are
>> probably those of a living Edward de Vere 'shipwrecked'
>> on the Isle of Malta (a la "I am that I am" St. Paul).
>
>> You think Oxford lived till about 1611 in Malta after a shipwreck.
>> That's a very minority view. I've never even heard it elsewhere, and
>> imagine it came out of your own head. You think Tempest was written in
>> around 1609. That's pretty minority also, both with Strats and Oxies
>> for differing reasons. I've never seen that either. Oh, perhaps Andy
>> Gurr would allow that. You think WS didn't exist, don't you?
>> That's even more of a minority view.
Probably not as minority as denying the existence of "The Globe"
itself.
---------------------------------------------------
<<By 1597 the average wage was less than a third of what it had been a
century before. For laborers, according to Stephen Inwood, this was
not just the worst year in a long time, it was the worst year in
history. It is a wonder that any working person could afford a trip to
the theater, yet nearly all relevant contemporary accounts make clear
that the theater was robustly popular with the laboring classes
throughout the depressed years. Quite how they managed it, even when
employed, is a mystery because in 16th-century London working people
really worked - from 6 a.m. til 6 p.m. in winter and til 8 p.m. in
summer. Since plays were performed in the middle of that working day,
it wouldn't seem self-evidently easy for working people to get away.
*Somehow they did* .>> - _Shakespeare_ by Bill Bryson
----------------------------------------------------------------
The 5% of the Globe that a Museum of London team of archaeologists
. uncovered in 1989 from the open space behind ANCHOR Terrace
in Southwark was a segment on the north-east flank of the auditorium.
Analysis of this fragment made it clear that the most significant
& valuable foundations, the stage area,
MUST be underneath ANCHOR Terrace itself.
.
. A tentative dig was done in the Terrace's cellarage in 1992,
. and established that the remains are there.
.
. Now, it seems, the opportunity to learn ANYTHING
. from them is to be buried PERMANENTLY.
.
At a meeting on 7 January, Southwark Borough Council's Planning
Committee affirmed English Heritage's policy by granting permission
to the owners of ANCHOR Terrace, which is a scheduled late GEORGIAN
. block built in 1839 facing Southwark Bridge Road, to convert
. the building into flats, and to return the Globe's remains
. "to the burial regime which has protected them in the past".
.
Without consultation, least of all with the scholars and theatre
historians who could have told them how important the site is,
nor taking any account of the high level of public interest, English
Heritage has concluded that "further archaeological investigation
with the basement of ANCHOR Terrace is not justified at present".
.
http://www.rdg.ac.uk/globe/Articles/AnchorScandal.htm
http://www.hiddenlondon.com/globe.htm>
---------------------------------------------------
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> So most Oxfordians don't think
>> of you as a regular Oxfordian.
I don't think of myself as a "regular" Oxfordian but
I'm far more of an Oxfordian than I was ten years
ago when I was more of a (Delia Bacon) groupist.
.
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> In any case, like everyone else, you're welcome
>> to join as long as you don't spam,
You are quite welcoming of KQKnave even though
he regularly SPAM's HLAS. (It is sort of like
Pakistan welcoming the Taliban & Osama so long
as they behave themselves in that country.)
.
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> or write long posts that are mostly
>> off topic in the middle of threads.
.
Roundtable & Lyra are mostly off topic;
will they be welcome as they are or
must they change their ways as well?
.
Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And how long do you think that will last?
I'm much more interested to see how a dying
FoA group does now that it is more open
both to members & to viewers.
I get a little tired of being accused
of killing HLAS so let's see how FoA fares
under the new format (but still sans me).
.
Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I suppose the SAT Guru,
> the "nearly an IM 2450",
> and other nutters will be allowed
> to post in Arden also?
KQKnave is allowed to post in Arden.
Art Neuendorffer
conra...@gmail.com
>
> Tongue of Strat in gooseberry sauce, yum! Stratford liver in giblet
> gravy, with fava beeans, and a nice chianti. Scrumptious!
>
> Hannibal the Oxfordian Mouse
Sheer fantasy. Oxfordian hunting-parties invariably come back empty-
handed, since they can't stop pointing their guns at their own feet.
Conrad.
conra...@gmail.com
>
> I get a little tired of being accused
> of killing HLAS so let's see how FoA fares
> under the new format (but still sans me).
Alternatively, you could practice self-control, spend a month without
data-dumping all over hlas, and see what happens.
Conrad.
Paul Crowley
news:8233d9a8-bcb8-49fe...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> It may last a long time. It may last one or two posts. But we gave Jim
> a chance and he's behaved himself
You mean he's behaved himself
within your own tiny bailiwick,
and what he does elsewhere is
no concern of yours.
History has taught us that this
is the right way to behave.
I'm all right, Jack, and fuck you.
Paul.
La Mouse
wrote:
No, we point them at your feet to keep you hopping.
Mouse
La Mouse
<slkwuoiutiuytciu...@slkjlskjoioue.com> wrote:
> "La Mouse" <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> Paul.
We have certain rules over there. If people follow the rules, and as
far as we know aren't guilty of horrendous offences, they're usually
allowed in after discussion by the managers. I might also point out
that when Jim was accepted, he wasn't producing nearly as much
verbiage on hlas as he is now.
art
>>
>> I get a little tired of being accused
>> of killing HLAS so let's see how FoA fares
>> under the new format (but still sans me).
"conradc...@gmail.com" <conradc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Alternatively, you could practice self-control, spend a month
> without data-dumping all over hlas, and see what happens.
>
Art Neuendorffer
Roundtable
>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -
Oh Mr. Neuendorffer, don't get all ruffled and ticked off and
insulted.
You know you write very long posts and very many of them,
and not all of us have the time to read all of one of them
every day, not to speak of all of all of them, and you know
that you post up to ten times a day - which is your right,
as it is everybody's right to post as much as we want,
and as it is everybody's right to read all, some, one or none
of your posts. But while HLAS can cope with your posts
perhaps FofA cannot, I don't know.
I don't think anyone wanted FoA to be specifically ART-less,
I don't think it was about you at all,
it was more of the non-Shakespearean stuff that was going
on at HLAS, the insults and the drivel and the Off Topic
stuff, that made some people want a haven,
and people wanted to get back to the purely
Shakespeare-related authorship discussions and
avoid HLASean skirmishes.
Speaking for myself, I was invited as
an after-thought by some nice female wanting some
female backup, ergo, entirely for my SEX and not for
any HLASean attributes I might have.
I don't think any MALE HLASeans would have seriously
wanted me on FoA anyway, since I have ceased to
contribute any Shakespearean discussions a long
time ago.
Does this bother me?
No.
The trouble is, I'm frankly bored with the authorship
discussion, it's all same old same old, once one
has been on HLAS for the past SEVEN years, (and
you and others have been here for longer)
whatever discussion one may start, or whatever name
one may mention, or whichever play one may wish
to discuss, IT'S ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE!!!
So one off-topics, like me.
Anyway, smoothe your ruffled feathers. HLAS without
ART wouldn't be HLAS.
RT
conra...@gmail.com
>
> No, we point them at your feet to keep you hopping.
You're tripping: any Stratfordian can dance circles around you.
Conrad.
book...@yahoo.com
I was afraid of this: The Forest has a fascist mind-set and is
generating terrorist tendencies among party members. J is a product
of Manson Family indoctrination aimed at h.l.a.s.. Next I'm prepared
to hear of congenial links between FA and SF. It's all starting to
look like a conspiracy to me. bb
art
>>>> remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
>>>> Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked
>>>> after one warning.
>> Greg Reynolds <even...@core.com> wrote:
>
>>> You let a 'boob' slip and you get a warning.
>>> You call a guy illiterate, and you're
>>> deForest'd the rest of your life.
>
>>> Pretty much a firewall to your whole argument, Art!
.
> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Except that (unlike Webb) I was never invited to join.
>
>> In fact, I was specifically targeted by insulting remarks,
>> name calling (or other ad hominem behavior)
>> as not being welcome under any circumstances:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Richard III wrote FoA:
>
>>> My initial emails to new members summed up
>>> the Forest as "more matter and less Art."
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> Oh Mr. Neuendorffer, don't get all ruffled
> and ticked off and insulted.
I'm simply amused by the irony of introducing
a site dedicated to "no insulting remarks,
name calling or other ad hominem behavior"
by specifically insulting yours TRULY.
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> You know you write very long posts and very many of them,
> and not all of us have the time to read all of one of them
> every day, not to speak of all of all of them, and you know
> that you post up to ten times a day - which is your right,
> as it is everybody's right to post as much as we want,
> and as it is everybody's right to read all, some,
> one or none of your posts.
.
At least, *I* attempt to avoid run on sentences.
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> But while HLAS can cope with your posts
> perhaps FofA cannot, I don't know.
Trust me, FofA will not ever cope.
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> I don't think anyone wanted FoA to be specifically ART-less,
> I don't think it was about you at all,
What part of: <<My initial emails to new members
summed up the Forest as "more matter and less Art.">>
don't you understand?
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> it was more of the non-Shakespearean stuff that was
> going on at HLAS, the insults and the drivel and
> the Off Topic stuff, that made some people want
> a haven, and people wanted to get back to the purely
> Shakespeare-related authorship discussions and
> avoid HLASean skirmishes.
What about all the chit chat that Mouse REVEls in?
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> Speaking for myself, I was invited as
> an after-thought by some nice female
Some mice (female), perhaps?
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> wanting some female backup, ergo,
> entirely for my SEX and not for any
> HLASean attributes I might have.
>
> I don't think any MALE HLASeans would have seriously
> wanted me on FoA anyway, since I have ceased to
> contribute any Shakespearean discussions a long
> time ago.
The HLASean Fields are the final resting place
of the souls of the heroic and the virtuous.
(We are all sexless here.)
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> Does this bother me?
>
> No.
Like Sands through the hourglass,
so are the days of our lives
.
Melanie wrote:
>
> The trouble is, I'm frankly bored with the authorship
> discussion, it's all same old same old, once
> one has been on HLAS for the past SEVEN years,
> (and you and others have been here for longer)
All that had constituted his life,
even to his name, was effaced;
he was no longer even Jean Valjean;
he was number 24,601.
> whatever discussion one may start, or whatever name
> one may mention, or whichever play one may wish
> to discuss, IT'S ALL BEEN DONE BEFORE!!!
I make new discoveries on a weekly (if not daily) basis.
> So one off-topics, like me.
Has anyone ever complained at FofA?
> Anyway, smoothe your ruffled feathers.
> HLAS without ART wouldn't be HLAS.
And FofA WITH ART wouldn't be FofA...
which is the main reason I won't join (right after:
"2. No posting nonsensical or cryptic messages.")
Art Neuendorffer
Le historien
> I don't think anyone wanted FoA to be specifically ART-less,
Think again. I also wanted FoA to be SAT guru-less, Chess One-less,
Spinoza-less, and less any other riff-raff... but I didn't want to
impose my own goals on the group, so I soon enough gave up the crown.
If Tom and the other group owners decide Art N. spam, Innes-crement,
and Zenner-nuttery are welcome, that's there call.
art
>>
>> I don't think anyone wanted FoA to be specifically ART-less,
> Spinoza-less, and less any other riff-raff... but I didn't want to impose
> my own goals on the group, so I soon enough gave up the crown.
Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown
> If Tom and the other group owners decide Art N. spam,
> Innes-crement, and Zenner-nuttery are welcome,
> that's there call.
Most joined FofA under the specific understanding
that I would not be posting there;
it would be a shame to disappoint them now.
Art Neuendorffer
P.S. Peter Zenner hasn't posted on HLAS in six years...why pick on
him?
-------------------------------------------
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/rey/recknyng.htm
<<Peter Zenner, in his The Shakespeare Invention (Country Books, 1999)
has drawn attention to the following anonymous sonnet, which appeared
in a collection of poems, The Phoenix Nest, published shortly after
the killing in 1593. Among the poets represented are Marlowe's friends
Thomas Watson, Matthew Roydon and George Peele. This poem appears
between others clearly addressed to the Queen.
.
. A Secret murder hath bene done of late,
. Vnkindnes founde, to be the bloudie knife,
. And shee that did the deede a dame of state,
. Faire, gracious, wise, as any beareth life.
.
. To quite hir selfe, this answere did she make,
. Mistrust (quoth she) hath brought him to his end,
. Which makes the man so much himselfe mistake,
. To lay the guilt vnto his guiltles frend.
.
. Ladie not so, not feard I found my death,
. For no desart thus murdered is my minde,
. And yet before I yeeld my fainting breath,
. I quite the killer, tho I blame the kinde.
.
. You kill vnkinde, I die, and yet am true,
. For at your sight, my wound doth bleede anew.
.
Although a perfectly ordinary meaning - that of the poet being
'murdered' by his disdainful mistress - is quite acceptable, it is
certainly possible to interpret this as having a second meaning, in
which the 'dame of state' would have been the Queen, and the 'bloudy
knife' a literal, rather than a metaphorical, one.>>
-------------------------------------------
art
>>>
>>> It may last a long time. It may last one or two posts.
>>> But we gave Jim a chance and he's behaved himself
> "Paul Crowley" wrote:
>>
>> You mean he's behaved himself
>> within your own tiny bailiwick,
>> and what he does elsewhere
>> is no concern of yours.
>
>> History has taught us that this
>> is the right way to behave.
>> I'm all right, Jack, and fuck you.
.
Lynne "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others"
Kositsky wrote:
>
> We have certain rules over there. If people follow the rules, and as
> far as we know aren't guilty of horrendous offences, they're usually
> allowed in after discussion by the managers. I might also point out
> that when Jim was accepted, he wasn't producing nearly as much
> verbiage on hlas as he is now.
Indeed. One could argue that with the Forest of Arden
to hide away in Carroll felt free to rape & plunder
HLAS with absolutely no remorse.
Do you really give a damn what KQKnave does
at HLAS or is that really NOT YOUR problem?
Art Neuendorffer
Chess One
"art" <acne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:46734293-ab66-454f...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
<snobbish stuff snippèd>
-------------------------------------------------------------
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You disagree with that?
I disagree with being excluded from the set of Oxfordians and
then placed in the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity.
I do believe in major conspiracies, ciphers & faked deaths
and have provided extensive evidence supporting these ideas.
Orthodox Oxfordians consider such concepts as discredited and
beneath them but there is a small contingency of Oxfordians
(e.g., Michael Dunn, Nicole, etc.) who are open to such
ways of thing.
**In which case I do not understand your reservations in joining with me in
the Elvès party. He was after all, a rock of disguise, not an obvious
poofter, and a post-intelligentcist.
Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And how long do you think that will last?
**Which I must admit is like being asked the time, and replying, 'you mean,
now?'
I'm much more interested to see how a dying
FoA group does now that it is more open
both to members & to viewers.
I get a little tired of being accused
of killing HLAS so let's see how FoA fares
under the new format (but still sans me).
.
Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I suppose the SAT Guru,
> the "nearly an IM 2450",
> and other nutters will be allowed
> to post in Arden also?
KQKnave is allowed to post in Arden.
**Et in Arden egos?
ARDEN: Fallow quarter. [Cumb]. Probably a corruption of ARDERS: fallowings
or ploughings of ground - this is the explanation in the Dict. Rust. 1726,
in v. See also Markham's Country Farme, 1616, p. 588. Polwhele gives ARDAR
as Cornish for plough, and ARDUR, a ploughman. There is also an Anglo Norman
word ARDURE with a meaning of 'burning' [likely agricultural], which occurs
in the //Persones Tale, p. 108
ARDENE:
His name is clepyd Gabriel
His ardene he dede ful snel.
//Christmas Carols, p. 16.
The old word is A. Sax: AREDE: to explain, to interpret, see Kyng
Alisaunder, 5115 and also The Sevyn Sages, 1154 (quoted in Boucher). A
secondary meaning is similar; to give council to //Mother Hubberd's Tale, p.
5.
You people should really wake up or study something very much simpler!
Phil Innes
BTW: Elizabethans would prefer FORSTER - mind your gerunds!~
--------
Art Neuendorffer
Ignoto
duh, you are the one who *helped* kill it off. People DO NOT LIKE you
dumping your CRAP here. How many times have you been told this? Yet you
continue to IGNORE what people say. You exercise no restraint, but
perpetually flood the boards with the same verbiage. If Knave is 'bad
for HLAS' YOU are worse (You apparently can;t see it, but Knave is just
mimmicking YOUR behavior).
As for HLAS 'dying' if your data dumps are it's life support I am afraid
it is brain dead already.
> Art Neuendorffer
art
>>>>
>>>> I get a little tired of being accused
>>>> of killing HLAS so let's see how FoA fares
>>>> under the new format (but still sans me).
>> .
>> "conradc...@gmail.com" <conradc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Alternatively, you could practice self-control, spend a month
>>> without data-dumping all over hlas, and see what happens.
> art wrote:
>>
>> And let HLAS die as well?
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> duh, you are the one who *helped* kill it off.
Then who killed off FofA
(or Cock Robin for that matter)?
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> People DO NOT LIKE you dumping your CRAP here.
"People"? I ain't "people."
I am a - "a shimmering, glowing *STAR*
in the user group firmament."
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> How many times have you been told this?
Five.
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> Yet you continue to IGNORE what people say.
...I beg your pardon...what did you say again?
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
>You exercise no restraint, but perpetually
> flood the boards with the same verbiage.
A form of torture that consists of immobilizing a person on their back
with the head inclined downward and pouring verbiage over the face and
into the breathing passages
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> If Knave is 'bad for HLAS' YOU are worse
---------------------------------------------------
EDGAR: I am *WORSE* than E'ER I was.
-. King Lear Act 4, Scene 1
..
*WORSE* = *VERRE* (Norwegian)
-----------------------------------------------
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> (You apparently can;t see it, but
> Knave is just mimmicking YOUR behavior).
Mimmicking mmi behavior?
Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>
> As for HLAS 'dying' if your data dumps are it's life support
> I am afraid it is brain dead already.
Quick, we can still do an organ transplant to FofA
..who's our most vital member?...KQKnave?
Art Neuendorffer
Chess One
"Le historien" <neil.the...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fd58add-11b7-4dac...@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 19, 11:08 am, Roundtable <lancelotinl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think anyone wanted FoA to be specifically ART-less,
>
> Think again. I also wanted FoA to be SAT guru-less, Chess One-less,
> Spinoza-less, and less any other riff-raff... but I didn't want to
> impose my own goals on the group, so I
stalked them to other newsgroups, researched their personal lives and
published a corruption of that publicly, wrote shit about them for 5 years,
non-stop, and I am an angel! protected by a woman, and some mathematico, and
I rarely even address content!
i am the author of the most idiotic phrase civilisation has yet devised, a
comment so stupid it does not have a name, not teven the Greeks thought of
one, nor even heavy german philosphers did not anticipate anyone could
propose
"Anglo Saxon is dead"
which requires only 4 words of Anglo Saxon to say so.
That is the level of this contributor, who thinks Gilbert and Sullivan is
great music, rather than Victorian wink-wink repressed gay stuff, with
blokes in make-up and rather wank-wank pirates.
Ker-ist!
>soon enough gave up the crown.
> If Tom and the other group owners decide Art N. spam, Innes-crement,
> and Zenner-nuttery are welcome, that's there call.
Such anal language, attempting the height of dumbth? These have encouraged a
certain crudeness in these newsgroups - of the military they say you become
brutalised - crude in expression and in expressed knowledge.
The person here referenced is as stupid on chess subjects as he is on the
Author. And I mean, really "Anglo Saxon is dead" stupid.
That such persons could remonstrate that others are at fault is to my mind
only supportable in that they receive tacit encouragement by others here who
don't want to get themselves at all dirty.
This is merely the phenomenological factor of all newsgroups over the past
10 years becoming increasingly occupied by abuseniks, and employed by those
who know just enough to encourage them as proxy agents.
They have taken Shakespeare and reduced it to G&S pastiche.
That is what is at fault in these groups, the general level of interception
of each an another's thoughts, and which inhibits topical conversation lest
genuine folk expose themselves. A result is that a reduced circumstance
newsgroup feels sorry for it self!
pfft!
[and I kid you not in these instances - to genuinely interested people who
have suffered exposure of their family members, their encourager's not
deeming to notice material would make a brown-shirt blush]
Phil Innes
La Ignorato
>>>> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I get a little tired of being accused
>>>>> of killing HLAS so let's see how FoA fares
>>>>> under the new format (but still sans me).
>>> .
>>> "conradc...@gmail.com" <conradc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Alternatively, you could practice self-control, spend a month
>>>> without data-dumping all over hlas, and see what happens.
> .
>> art wrote:
>>> And let HLAS die as well?
>
> Ignoto <ign...@tarpit.org> wrote:
>> duh, you are the one who *helped* kill it off.
>
> Then who killed off FofA
Arden, as a 'closed' society was doomed from the outset.
La Ignorato
IMO Knave, who intentionally SPAMS HLAS with the object of causing
disruption is far worse than the merely 'eccentric' Neundorffer (not
that this excuses Neundorffer, who seems incapable of registering what
the demands of discourse in a 'public' newsgroup are).
>
> Paul.
>
>
>
>
La Mouse
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, all I can say is that neither Tom nor I were managers until very
recently--within the last month, in fact. We are trying to remedy the
situation that existed before by opening up Arden. It may work, it may
not. We'll see.
But I'd appreciate it if you guys would stop blaming us for something
that was in no way our responsibility.
Mouse
Ignoto
For myself - I was merely making an observation- not apportioning blame.
> Mouse
Greg Reynolds
Are you guys using French names because you're all in Normandy now?
I posted once to the Forest, I think it was the day Lynne quit!
Personally, i cannot abide censorship. Eliminating your audience is
counterproductive, no?
I do not regard the riffraff, the self-indulged, the loons/liars/
losers, and the fakirs as lesser than would I regard my would-be
censors.
I read Shakespeare plays every day, and you probably know the writing
is way better than any old newgroup! (I really think I made my
contributions on all the plays and all the poems here in the meaty
years of 98-01).
Politics in literature appreciation is not for me.
And I would hate to try posting to two groups as some strategic
courtesy.
i have my own newgroup no one can join--YOU'RE ALL BANNED-- okay, its
just my Composition book which I use all day in this beautiful
weather.
Shakespeare did not cut and run.
SIncerely,
Greg Retnolds
...who will gladly post his next BIG revelation to FoA
but is immersed only in playwriting for the present,
oh, and going to Adam Selzer's elopement next
weekend and YOU are invited, too...
http://booknerdsinlove.blogspot.com
+++
From Adam Selzer...
For those who want to come to the "elopement" on Sunday, July 27th,
here are details:
Meet up outside of the Edgewater Beach Cafe - 5545 N. Sheridan,
Chicago, IL at 10:30 am (come early; parking can be a trick). From
there, we'll walk to the beach itself (which is right down the
block).
Dress casually! We will probably hit a diner afterwards. We
recommend
getting there via the red line - it's near Bryn Mawr.
Rather than registering for lamps and stuff, we're registered to
help
pay for the honeymoon at http://mydisneyhoneymoon.com/booknerds .
Search for Adam Selzer, July 2008
_________________________
www.adamselzer.com
www.weirdchicago.com
Christian Lanciai
> On Jul 19, 4:44 am, Christian Lanciai <clanc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 18 Juli, 18:13, Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 18, 10:28 am, Christian Lanciai <clanc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 18 Juli, 00:32, bookb...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 11:57:25 -0700 (PDT), Tom Reedy
>
> > > > > <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >The Forest of Arden, a private Google group established for the
> > > > > >discussion of the Shakespeare authorship controversy, the
> > > > > >Shakespearean canon, and Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre and literature,
> > > > > >is now open for public view. You can find it at this Web address:
> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/ForestofArden.
>
> > > > > >The group was founded in February, 2007, as an alternative to the
> > > > > >atmosphere that often prevails in the open group
> > > > > >humanities.lit.authorship.shakespeare.
>
> > > > > >Anybody can read the discussions, but only members can post.
>
> > > > > >Applications for membership will be liberally granted, but it is not
> > > > > >automatic. To become a member, follow the instructions on the group
> > > > > >front page and your application will be reviewed and answered within a
> > > > > >reasonable period of time.
>
> > > > > >Members pledge to adhere to a higher standard than that of a regular
> > > > > >newsgroup on penalty of speedy revocation of membership privileges if
> > > > > >those standards are violated.
>
> > > > > >Listed below are the rules of conduct of the Forest of Arden.
>
> > > > > >1. While we encourage lively and even sharp debate, no insulting
> > > > > >remarks, name calling or other ad hominem behavior will be tolerated.
> > > > > >Those who violate this rule will have their membership revoked after
> > > > > >one warning.
>
> > > > > >followed by suspension if the offense is repeated.
>
> > > > > >3. All offensive posts described above and all replies containing the
> > > > > >original messages will be removed from the archives.
>
> > > > > >There are some good discussions in the Forest of Arden archive. We
> > > > > >hope more will take place and that you enjoy participating.
>
> > > > > >Sincerely,
>
> > > > > >The Forest of Arden Owners
>
> > > > > Is it possible there is a collective "we", or are you the "we"?
> > > > > Always a good idea to know if there is a Robin Hood or just Merry Men
> > > > > in the Forest of Arden before venturing through.
>
> > > > > Perhaps you could tell us if you've captured any h.l.a.s. yet? We
> > > > > "we"s might exchange prisoners, too, unless you're not taking any.
>
> > > > > Actually, to defend ourselves, h.l.a.s. ought to send a spy or two
> > > > > into this Forest to stir up divisiveness, instigate rebellion, and
> > > > > demean and denigrate their sheeple. I think we have some who would be
> > > > > good at it. By rights, we should collect taxes from these pirates.
>
> > > > > Sheriff of Nottingham
>
> > > > Just for the record: I was thrown out from there (the first one to be
> > > > subjected to that treatment) after allegations by Jim supported by
> > > > Tom, Neil and others.
>
> > > Up to your usual standard of accuracy, I see. I didn't find out about
> > > the three faces of 'Christian' until after you left. I certainly
> > > didn't have anything to do with your departure, although I agree it
> > > was a prudent move on the part of the Forest to drum you out.
>
> > Condemning as usual, Neil. You found out nothing since there was
> > nothing to find out. Jim found out that at least three hlas posters
> > used the same public office computers. From that certain stratfordians
> > came to the conclusion that these three people must be one person, and
> > they stuck to that idea, since it for some reason pleased them – they
> > saw me as a parallel case to John Baker and consequently saw red, but
> > for no reason. The fact that those two others were colleagues of mine
> > and had access to the same public office should have been explanation
> > enough. Instead, Tom Reedy insisted on my expulsion. With such
> > ornaments like you, Tom and Jim for the Forest of Arden, no wonder it
> > went into coma.
>
> > "If I had more than one face, do you really think I would be carrying
> > this one around?" – Abraham Lincoln.
>
> > C.
>
> Still waiting for an apology for your false statement I had anything
> to do with getting you bounced from Forest of Arden. As for the group
> allegedly being comatose, it is also free from Art N.'s spam, the
> drivel of Chess One and Spinoza, Crowley's faux-erudition, the three
> faces of Christian, and the presence of the resident SAT guru. I leave
> it to the sagacity of the readers to decide which group they wish to
> post in.
You constantly demand apologies of me without ever apologising
yourself, although you have been my most constant prosecutor since
then. The one who owes us an apology is the arbitrary management of
the FoA, who led me to believe you were all behind my being
ostracised. Very well, I apologise for nothing, so at least someone
does.
C.
art
>
> ...who will gladly post his next BIG revelation to FoA
> but is immersed only in playwriting for the present,
> oh, and going to Adam Selzer's elopement next
> weekend and YOU are invited, too...
> http://booknerdsinlove.blogspot.com
I suggest we all chip in and buy Adam & Ronni a steady cam.
Art Neuendorffer
-------------------------------------------------
Le historien
Yes, you are right. Apology is the wrong word. How about "retraction",
as in retraction of your false statement that I had anything to do
with your being bounced out of Arden?
Roundtable
> .Melanie wrote:
>
> > You know you write very long posts and very many of them,
> > and not all of us have the time to read all of one of them
> > every day, not to speak of all of all of them, and you know
> > that you post up to ten times a day - which is your right,
> > as it is everybody's right to post as much as we want,
> > and as it is everybody's right to read all, some,
> > one or none of your posts.
>
> .
> At least, *I* attempt to avoid run on sentences.
Now now, it's not good form to bite one's friends.
.
> Melanie wrote:
>
> > I don't think anyone wanted FoA to be specifically ART-less,
> > I don't think it was about you at all,
>
> What part of: <<My initial emails to new members
> summed up the Forest as "more matter and less Art.">>
> don't you understand?
Now now, it's not good form to kick one's friends.
.
>
> Melanie wrote:
>
> > it was more of the non-Shakespearean stuff that was
> > going on at HLAS, the insults and the drivel and
> > the Off Topic stuff, that made some people want
> > a haven, and people wanted to get back to the purely
> > Shakespeare-related authorship discussions and
> > avoid HLASean skirmishes.
>
> What about all the chit chat that Mouse REVEls in?
.
Now now, it's not good form to...oh, that wasn't aimed at
me.
> Melanie wrote:
>
> > Speaking for myself, I was invited as
> > an after-thought by some nice female
>
> Some mice (female), perhaps?
And to think I catch them in cage-traps in the
office and throw them out into the fields...still alive,
though...
but then, the Wald Disney studios had mousetraps
EVERYWHERE, not cage-traps but neck-breaking ones!
I'm not taking the mickey out of you, it's true!
.
>
> Melanie wrote:
> The HLASean Fields are the final resting place
> of the souls of the heroic and the virtuous.
and those who kick their friends.
> (We are all sexless here.)
Vell, monssieur, spik for yourselv, I myselv am
verri verri parshall to a bit uf zee rolle in zee haye!
> I make new discoveries on a weekly (if not daily) basis.
About Shakespeare?
Well so do I, but that's because I didn't know all that
much to start with.
> And FofA WITH ART wouldn't be FofA...
> which is the main reason I won't join (right after:
> "2. No posting nonsensical or cryptic messages.")
So...according to this, you think that they think that
your messages are either nonsensical or cryptical.
But they (your posts) are neither, so it's not relevant what
you think they think. Do your thing and tell the rest to
eff off. Sexlessly or otherwise.
RT
lackpurity
> "Le historien" <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
MM:
Good redition of the other side. It's always nice when someone with a
broader scope explains the situation to us.
I've reduced my posting here to almost nothing. It's because many
people want to be the leader, here, and that leads to chaos,
especially when the blind are leading the blind. Christ said that
both would fall into a ditch, when that is attempted.
Here's a pertinent Biblical quote:
Matthew 20:27
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
MM:
Notice the word "chief." The Superior One should teach the others.
What is a fool going to teach another fool, how to be a fool? Give me
a break. The Superior One serves us by enlightening us, while others
keep us in darkness. If this group ever learns that axion, there
might be some hope for it.
This new group doesn't offer any hope, as I see it. It's just
transferring same ol' to same ol', IMO.
Michael Martin
nordicskiv2
<46734293-ab66-454f...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
art <acne...@gmail.com>
(acnew...@gmail.comedy) wrote:
[...]
> >>>> "Tom Reedy" <tom.re...@gmail.com> wrote the FoA:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why is it that physics guys are the ones with the most far-fetched
> >>>>> (I realize that is a relative term given our topic here) theories? You
> >>>>> have this guy, Art N., Mark Anderson--I wonder how many others?
> >
> >>>>> On Sep 6, 11:47 am, Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>> We don't have this guy. He is a Hastingsian or something.
> >>>> We don't really include Art either. For the most part he only
> >>>> espouses theories that he's made up himself and virtually
> >>>> no one else agrees with, as lackpurity does.
> -------------------------------------------–------------------
> > La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> You disagree with that?
> I disagree with being excluded from the set of Oxfordians and
> then placed in the same (sub-KQKnave) category as lackpurity.
But Art -- you're the one who believes that anagrams with a high
INIPNC (formerly, INPNC) score desERVE to be taken seriously. As I've
pointed out to you before, "I'm Art N." is an anagram of "Martin,"
with an INIPNC score of 100%! The identification of
aneuendorffer114...@comicass.nut (and your other incarnations) with
lacksanity seems inescapable -- by your *own methods*.
> I do believe in major conspiracies,
Which ones, Art? The Priory of Sion? Rex Deus? The Scottish
Rite? The Knights Templar? The Rosy Cross? The Knights of Malta?
The Odd Fellows? The Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks? The
Illuminati? The Bilderberg Group? Skull and Bones? Bohemian Grove?
David Icke's reptilians? The NASA conspiracy to fake the moon
landings so ardently championed (although perhaps "chumpioned" would
be a more suitable nonce-word) by one of your illustrious anti-
Stratfordian coreligionists? The "Gemstone" conspiracy upheld by
another of your coreligionists? Please be specific, Art.
> ciphers
You mean "Agnes a gob [sic]" and "I kill Edwasd [sic] de Vese
[sic]"?
> & faked deaths
Whose, Art? Please be specific.
> and have provided extensive evidence
Evidence?! Your crackpot cryptography is supposed to be "evidence"
of ciphers and faked deaths?!
> supporting these ideas.
You really should submit a "This I believe" essay to NPR, Art!
While you're enumerating the conspiracies, ciphers, faked deaths, etc.
in your credo, don't forget to mention nutcase numerology, one of the
bulwarks of your "reasoning."
> Orthodox Oxfordians
The notion of "orthodOX Oxfordians" is such an amusing OXymoron!
> consider such concepts as discredited and
> beneath them
...i.e., improbable though it may seem, sanity is not completely
extinct among Oxfordians...
> but there is a small contingency [sic] of Oxfordians
Do you mean "contingent"? Is English your native tongue, Art?
> (e.g., Michael Dunn, Nicole, etc.) who are open to such
> ways of thing [sic].
"Ways of thing"? Is English your native tongue, Art?
> > La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here are some of your words:
> >
> >> The Tempest,
> >> & III Henry VI Act 5, Scene 4 (of the Folio, 1623) & are all
> >> contemporaneous (probably c. 1609). The words & imagery are
> >> probably those of a living Edward de Vere 'shipwrecked'
> >> on the Isle of Malta (a la "I am that I am" St. Paul).
> >
> >> You think Oxford lived till about 1611 in Malta after a shipwreck.
> >> That's a very minority view. I've never even heard it elsewhere, and
> >> imagine it came out of your own head.
Lynne is being unjust here. The view that Oxford survived his
supposed death and, like Prospero, mysteriously vanished, taking his
books with him (presumably to complete his King James translation of
the Bible), has a unanimous following among the ultra-lunatic fringe
of Oxfordia -- that is, some VERsion of this belief is held by both of
them: Art and Mr. Streitz. (As an indication of just how far out on
the lunatic fringe this idea is, I don't believe that even Stephanie
Caruana subscribes to it!)
> >> You think Tempest was written in
> >> around 1609. That's pretty minority also, both with Strats and Oxies
> >> for differing reasons. I've never seen that either.
Lynne needs to familiarize herself with some of the
more...uh...eccentric Oxfordian beliefs.
> >> Oh, perhaps Andy
> >> Gurr would allow that. You think WS didn't exist, don't you?
> >> That's even more of a minority view.
Indeed it is. Even more remarkably, Art expressed skepticism about
the existence of Mikhail Lomonosov! Incredibly, Art didn't believe
that Steven May exists either -- Art apparently regarded the latter as
some sort of Masonic fake! Art seems to suffer from an acute
existential crisis.
> Probably not as minority as denying the existence of "The Globe"
> itself.
Probably not.
> <<By 1597 the average wage was less than a third of what it had been a
> century before. For laborers, according to Stephen Inwood, this was
> not just the worst year in a long time, it was the worst year in
> history. It is a wonder that any working person could afford a trip to
> the theater, yet nearly all relevant contemporary accounts make clear
> that the theater was robustly popular with the laboring classes
> throughout the depressed years. Quite how they managed it, even when
> employed, is a mystery because in 16th-century London working people
> really worked - from 6 a.m. til 6 p.m. in winter and til 8 p.m. in
> summer. Since plays were performed in the middle of that working day,
> it wouldn't seem self-evidently easy for working people to get away.
> *Somehow they did* .>> - _Shakespeare_ by Bill Bryson
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> The 5% of the Globe that a Museum of London team of archaeologists
> . uncovered in 1989 from the open space behind ANCHOR Terrace
> in Southwark was a segment on the north-east flank of the auditorium.
> Analysis of this fragment made it clear that the most significant
> & valuable foundations, the stage area,
> MUST be underneath ANCHOR Terrace itself.
> .
> . A tentative dig was done in the Terrace's cellarage in 1992,
> . and established that the remains are there.
> .
> . Now, it seems, the opportunity to learn ANYTHING
> . from them is to be buried PERMANENTLY.
> .
> At a meeting on 7 January, Southwark Borough Council's Planning
> Committee affirmed English Heritage's policy by granting permission
> to the owners of ANCHOR Terrace, which is a scheduled late GEORGIAN
> . block built in 1839 facing Southwark Bridge Road, to convert
> . the building into flats, and to return the Globe's remains
> . "to the burial regime which has protected them in the past".
> .
> Without consultation, least of all with the scholars and theatre
> historians who could have told them how important the site is,
> nor taking any account of the high level of public interest, English
> Heritage has concluded that "further archaeological investigation
> with the basement of ANCHOR Terrace is not justified at present".
> .
> http://www.rdg.ac.uk/globe/Articles/AnchorScandal.htm
> http://www.hiddenlondon.com/globe.htm>
Now you're channeling (or perhaps deftly parodying) PWDBard, Art.
> > La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> So most Oxfordians don't think
> >> of you as a regular Oxfordian.
> I don't think of myself as a "regular" Oxfordian
In view of that commodity with which you deluge the newsgroup in
such extraordinary measure, nobody but you has any doubts concerning
your regularity, Art.
But you misunderstand the objections of many here, Art. Most of
your detractors are annoyed that you keep posting -- repeatedly -- the
*same* old idiotic crap. We want to see some *new* idiotic crap. I'm
sure you have it in you, Art.
> but
> I'm far more of an Oxfordian than I was ten years
> ago when I was more of a (Delia Bacon) groupist.
> > La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> In any case, like everyone else, you're welcome
> >> to join as long as you don't spam,
> You are quite welcoming of KQKnave even though
> he regularly SPAM's [sic] HLAS.
"Spam's" is a possessive form, Art; I suspect that what you want
here is the third person singular present indicative form of the
VERb. But you have neVER been VERy competent when it comes to VER-BS,
Art.
Couldn't you read what was written, Art? "In any case, like
everyone else, you're welcome to join as long as you don't spam."
That's an open invitation to affiliate, provided you don't violate the
ground rules. You're oVERplaying your Petulant Paranoid persona a
little here, Art. In fact, I encourage you to join -- it will be an
interesting experiment to see whether, like one of your distinguished
brethren in buffoonery, Richard Kennedy, you can manage to get
yourself ejected from eVERy forum in which you pARTicipate.
> (It is sort of like
> Pakistan welcoming the Taliban & Osama so long
> as they behave themselves in that country.)
Not VERy much like it. Your sense of proportion is a bit askew,
Art.
> > La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> or write long posts that are mostly
> >> off topic in the middle of threads.
> Roundtable & Lyra are mostly off topic;
> will they be welcome as they are or
> must they change their ways as well?
Roundtable's digressions are welcome because she does not post the
same thing oVER and oVER and oVER. But if you're curious, why don't
you join and find out, Art? Some of us would welcome you, provided
you can come up with some *new* idiotic crap rather than the endlessly
recycled ARTicle.
> Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > And how long do you think that will last?
> I'm much more interested to see how a dying
> FoA group does now that it is more open
> both to members & to viewers.
The Forest of Arden is by no means moribund.
> I get a little tired of being accused
> of killing HLAS so let's see how FoA fares
> under the new format (but still sans me).
You mean, we won't have Richard NiXOn to kick around any more? As
Lynne said, you are *welcome* to join, Art; whether you wear out that
welcome, as at the Fellowship, is up to you.
> Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I suppose the SAT Guru,
> > the "nearly an IM 2450",
> > and other nutters will be allowed
> > to post in Arden also?
> KQKnave is allowed to post in Arden.
And his posts there have been unexceptionable. He will continue to
be permitted to post provided he doesn't spam the group, as you will
be if you can manage to follow the group's guidelines. But watch
yourself, Art -- the Grand Master will be watching!
> Art Neuendorffer
La Mouse
> In article
> <46734293-ab66-454f-9d69-e5d5f22b0...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> art <acneu...@gmail.com>
You mean others believe that Oxford was shipwrecked on Malta?
Excuse me, David, but we don't want to see either old or new
spamming.
Art can write perfectly sensible posts, and he does so every now and
then.
If he can do that on Arden, he'll be welcome.
Mouse
Ignoto
hypocrite.
art
>
> Art can write perfectly sensible posts, and he does so every
> now and then. If he can do that on Arden, he'll be welcome.
And what is the point of writing perfectly sensible posts if they are
either ignored or (worse) if they are misinterpreted and someone goes
off whining like a prissy little school girl that someone has
mistreated HER?
Strats beat the Tempest 'dead horse' to death *NOT* because it is (or
EVER was) a justified position in any sense of the word but *PURELY*
because it is the simplest mantra that one can chant to ward off the
evil Oxfordian demon. Plant a few dozen top Shakespearean scholars
trained to spout off this Tempest mantra and one has an impenetrable
Stratfordian wall. There are *AT LEAST* a dozen good *SIMPLE* reasons
*NOT* to take the Tempest mantra seriously(; one of the best IMO being
Looney's original idea that the Tempest was in large part written by
someone other than Oxford [for which Looney provides quite a lot of
good evidence]). But Kositsky & Stritmatter are quite happy to
blithely join Strat conspiracy in *TOTALLY DISMISSING ALL* of these
good *SIMPLE* reasons (including Looney's) in order that they can lay
their own intricately complex cuckoo's egg.
Mind you, it is *NOT* that Kositsky & Stritmatter are wrong about the
Tempest; in fact, their solution may be *THE MOST CORRECT* solution.
However, their solution is *SO COMPLEX* that it takes, at least, an
hour to explain. Hence, only diehard Strats & diehard Oxfordians will
EVER pay any attention to it(; thereby, maintaining the status quo).
But FAR worse IMO is the fact that rather than bothering themselves to
argue against the former dozen good *SIMPLE* Oxfordian Tempest
arguments Kositsky & Stritmatter have the utter hubris to simply take
the Strats' word that these OTHER Oxfordian solutions hold NO water
whatsoEVER.
One should NEVER EVER take the Strats' word for *ANYTHING* .
HLAS, for all it's faults, was formed in response to the tyranny of
SHAKSPER.
Will _Forest of Arden_ become the new SHAKSPER?
Will Kositsky & Stritmatter become the new rulers of Animal Farm?
Art Neuendorffer
Le historien
> La Mouse <lynnekosit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Art can write perfectly sensible posts, and he does so every
> > now and then. If he can do that on Arden, he'll be welcome.
>
> And what is the point of writing perfectly sensible posts if they are
> either ignored or (worse) if they are misinterpreted and someone goes
> off whining like a prissy little school girl that someone has
> mistreated HER?
>
> Strats beat the Tempest 'dead horse' to death *NOT* because it is (or
> EVER was) a justified position in any sense of the word but *PURELY*
> because it is the simplest mantra that one can chant to ward off the
> evil Oxfordian demon. Plant a few dozen top Shakespearean scholars
> trained to spout off this Tempest mantra and one has an impenetrable
> Stratfordian wall. There are *AT LEAST* a dozen good *SIMPLE* reasons
> *NOT* to take the Tempest mantra seriously(; one of the best IMO being
> Looney's original idea that the Tempest was in large part written by
> someone other than Oxford [for which Looney provides quite a lot of
> good evidence]).
Examples of this 'evidence' that Shakespeare, or for the sake of
argument Oxenford, did NOT write The Tempest?
Christian Lanciai
You don't seem to get the message. "The one who owes us an apology is
the arbitrary management of the FoA, who led me to believe you were
all behind my being ostracised." We are hardly to get any excuse from
the FoA management. People generally don't apologise or "retract" here
in hlas. I already did apologise. Instead of accepting the apology,
you make new demands. If you can't accept my apologies, it's your
problem.
C.
art
>
> Examples of this 'evidence' that Shakespeare, or for the
> sake of argument Oxenford, did NOT write The Tempest?
http://www.shakespearefellowship.org/etexts/si/app1.htm
------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Le historien
Hmm, Looney set out to disqualify The Tempest from the canon, and all
he proved is that he was a looney with an agenda and a tin ear. I
don't see any 'evidence; merely assertions by Looney that The Tempest
doesn't 'sound' Shakespearean.
art
>
> > > Examples of this 'evidence' that Shakespeare, or for the
> > > sake of argument Oxenford, did NOT write The Tempest?
> art <acneu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >http://www.shakespearefellowship.org/etexts/si/app1.htm
> > ------------------------------------------
Le historien <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hmm, Looney set out to disqualify The Tempest from the canon, and
> all he proved is that he was a looney with an agenda and a tin ear.
> I don't see any 'evidence; merely assertions by Looney that
> The Tempest doesn't 'sound' Shakespearean.
Normally such ad hominems wouldn't be allowed at FofA
but since this is precisely the way Lynne, herself,
summarily dismisses Looney's argument it's probably OK.
Art Neuendorffer
La Mouse
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Christian,
As far as I remember, Neil was not a manager when you were kicked off.
There seemed to be a negative groundswell at the time, and the
managers made the final decision. The main man is not around any
longer. As a member I was fascinated, I recall, although to some
extent caught up in it, which I apologise for, but to try to ascertain
the truth, I think I asked you some questions. I'm still not sure
whether you were involved in sockpuppetry, but because so many people
seem to have sockpuppets anyhow, in retrospect I don't see how it
could be a greater crime in your case even if it's true. Jim must have
around 200 or more. I'm a manager of Arden now. If you're interested I
could ask the other managers how they feel, especially since neither
of your two friends ever turned up on Arden.
Just a thought: Roger stays here in Toronto with my husband and me
often, and I've noticed that although he uses his own laptop
(wireless), his ip is identical to mine while he's here. Roger is
certainly not my sockpuppet. Nor do I write his posts. ;)
Best wishes,
Mouse
La Mouse
I don't think Looney had a tin ear, and I do have great respect for
him, but I think he was simply mistaken in this instance. What you
call the "agenda" might have been unconsciously driving him. That's
not unusual in either the Strat and Oxie world. In any case, I'm not
even sure why Art mentioned Looney in the first place, as he'd be just
as annoyed if Roger and I agreed with Looney's theory as he is now
(without, I might add, having read our evidence). After all, Art
believes Tempest is by Oxford, and that its language and images are
probably the result of Oxford's shipwreck on Malta in around 1609,
five years after most people believe he died.
In any case, while I'm posting, after Art's outburst last night, I'd
just like to register my feelings of dismay and shame that he is an
Oxfordian. It is one thing to disagree, it is another to cast
despicable slurs, especially against people who have supported one, as
I most certainly have supported Art's presence in the past on the SF
Boards. I thought his post an outright disgrace, but I waited until
this morning to reply, so as not to cloud my response with emotion.
He can say what he likes now. I shall not bother to read anything he
writes again.
Mouse