if ... then ... Opening projects and images from Windows Explorer

[Abrimaal]

When we click [ Add Images ] button in the simple interface, we can see both images and .pto projects,
but we cannot open a project from here, because an error "Could not decode image" is displayed. (attachment 1)

When we want to open an existing project from the menu [ Open ], you don't see what you open, because images are not displayed. (attachment 2)
(let's assume that images and projects are in the same folder)

If Hugin displays .pto projects in Add images, why not to open projects from here and rename the button to [ Open files ] or [ Load files ]
It looks simple to detect the header '# hugin project file' and jump to project opening routine. At least simple compared to all calculations performed by Hugin :)

Additionally, we could select a project file and images, what will open a project and add images to it.
We could select two or more .pto files to merge projects.

This is not all. When we make panoramas or straighten photos one after one, clicking on [ File / New ] may extend to long hours when we have many files to process.
This button can be renamed to [ Start ]
It will allow the user to start a new project, load images, open projects, add images to a project and merge projects with a single button.

But what if we want to add more images to an open project? We can select [ Add Images ] from the menu. This is an operation that we do usually by mistake, when we don't select all images we want to open. Whatever, we don't do it as frequently as starting a new project (make a new panorama or straighten a photo).

What is your opinion, users and developers?

[David W. Jones]

On 01/26/2018 08:03 PM, Abrimaal wrote:

Hmm, first disclaimers:

1. I use Linux.
2. I don't use the Simple Interface.
3. I rarely add images to an existing PTO. If I have a folder of images
to include in a project, I select them all and right-click to open in
Hugin PTO Generator.

> When we click [ Add Images ] button in the simple interface, we can see
> both images and .pto projects,
> but we cannot open a project from here, because an error "Could not
> decode image" is displayed. (attachment 1)

Why would you want to open a project from an "Add Images" button? A
project isn't an image.

> When we want to open an existing project from the menu [ Open ], you
> don't see what you open, because images are not displayed. (attachment 2)
> (let's assume that images and projects are in the same folder)

But what image is the one to show for the project in the file open
window? Isn't the operating system responsible for generating and
displaying thumbnails of images in "open file/image" dialogs? How could
it generate the appropriate thumbnail image without loading and
rendering the project, or assuming that whatever image there is in the
folder that has the same name as the project is the project output, and
thumbnail it?

> If Hugin displays .pto projects in Add images,

It shouldn't. I'd expect the button to open a project would only see PTO
files while the one to add images would only see image files.

> why not to open projects
> from here and rename the button to [ Open files ] or [ Load files ]

Confusing - label doesn't indicate the specific function.

> It looks simple to detect the header '# hugin project file' and jump to
> project opening routine. At least simple compared to all calculations
> performed by Hugin :)
>
> Additionally, we could select a project file and images, what will open
> a project and add images to it.

Dragging and dropping images into an open Hugin project adds them to it.

Programmatically - if I drag a PTO and images into an existing project
window ... I guess Hugin would have to merge the PTOs first, then add
the images? Anyway, in what order does the OS offer the dropped files to
the receiving program?

> We could select two or more .pto files to merge projects.

I just tried dropping 2 PTO files into an open Hugin window. Nothing
happened.

Being able to merge projects by dragging one into an open Hugin project
window - maybe it could just transparently run pto_merge behind the
scenes? - might be useful for someone but I can't think of a reason to
merge projects?

> This is not all. When we make panoramas or straighten photos one after
> one, clicking on [ File / New ] may extend to long hours when we have
> many files to process.
> This button can be renamed to [ Start ]

No. Just no. So you spend 'long hours' clicking [Start]. Or do you want
to be able to work on a project in the foreground while background
processes in Hugin proceed to merge PTOs, add images, etc?

> It will allow the user to start a new project, load images, open
> projects, add images to a project and merge projects with a single button.

Sorry, I prefer buttons clearly labeled with their functions. Makes it
much easier to find the function I'm looking for.

> But what if we want to add more images to an open project? We can select
> [ Add Images ] from the menu. This is an operation that we do usually by
> mistake, when we don't select all images we want to open. Whatever, we
> don't do it as frequently as starting a new project (make a new panorama
> or straighten a photo).

So what does that have to do with your Start button idea?

> What is your opinion, users and developers?

Interspersed above. Again, I don't use the Simple Interface, so keep
that in mind.

--
David W. Jones
gnome...@gmail.com
wandering the landscape of god
http://dancingtreefrog.com

[Gunter Königsmann]

As an ordinary user I am happy with the nee button.

Also I expect the "open" button to offer to open project files by default. Which it currently does. But if the filter of the open dialogue it opens could be changed to "image files" I wouldn't be unhappy about that.

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[T. Modes]

Am Samstag, 27. Januar 2018 07:03:48 UTC+1 schrieb Abrimaal:

When we click [ Add Images ] button in the simple interface, we can see both images and .pto projects,
but we cannot open a project from here, because an error "Could not decode image" is displayed. (attachment 1)

When we want to open an existing project from the menu [ Open ], you don't see what you open, because images are not displayed. (attachment 2)
(let's assume that images and projects are in the same folder)

If Hugin displays .pto projects in Add images, why not to open projects from here and rename the button to [ Open files ] or [ Load files ]
It looks simple to detect the header '# hugin project file' and jump to project opening routine. At least simple compared to all calculations performed by Hugin :)

This happens only because you set the file filter in the add images dialog to "all files" instead of the default "all image file". (But you didn't this in the load project.)

It will allow the user to start a new project, load images, open projects, add images to a project and merge projects with a single button.

How do you want then to distinguish between open project and merge project? And how should a new project started in this context?

Sorry, but this is more then confuse.

[Abrimaal]

Opinions are various. At least allowing Hugin to load projects with the big button will simplify the work.

How to distinguish between Open project and Merge / Add images to project:

On a blank screen, big button clicked:
- Selecting a single .pto file does NEW, Open Project
- Selecting more than one .pto files does NEW,  Open and merge projects
- Selecting a .pto file and images does NEW, Open project, add images to project
- Selecting images only may Add images as it works currently or do NEW, Open images. Decision belongs to you.

While work, selection from menu:
Selecting from menu File/Add (not using the big button) will not do New, but it will allow to add images and projects to the currently open project.

[T. Modes]

Am Samstag, 27. Januar 2018 18:58:51 UTC+1 schrieb Abrimaal:

How to distinguish between Open project and Merge / Add images to project:

On a blank screen, big button clicked:
- Selecting a single .pto file does NEW, Open Project
- Selecting more than one .pto files does NEW,  Open and merge projects
- Selecting a .pto file and images does NEW, Open project, add images to project
- Selecting images only may Add images as it works currently or do NEW, Open images. Decision belongs to you.

Sorry, but I find this too confusing. You are mixing loading project and adding images/other projects to open projects. These are 2 different things and should be separated.

[Abrimaal]

Yes, after some work I also think that the rearrangement would make too much mess. At least opening projects from the main button could open them (instead of displaying error) when "all file types are selected".

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

... or the "All files" option could be entirely removed. Or is there a situation where it would be useful?

--

Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

[David W. Jones]

On January 30, 2018 12:14:56 PM HST, Frederic Da Vitoria <davi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>2018-01-30 21:09 GMT+01:00 Abrimaal <abri...@wp.pl>:
>
>> Yes, after some work I also think that the rearrangement would make
>too
>> much mess. At least opening projects from the main button could open
>them
>> (instead of displaying error) when "all file types are selected".
>>
>> On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 8:28:44 PM UTC+1, T. Modes wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry, but I find this too confusing. You are mixing loading project
>and
>>> adding images/other projects to open projects. These are 2 different
>things
>>> and should be separated.
>>>
>>
> ... or the "All files" option could be entirely removed. Or is there a
> situation where it would be useful?

Is there any other Hugin project file format, or can Hugin open projects from other panorama generators? If no to either, I vote to remove the 'All files' option.

David W. Jones
gnome...@gmail.com
wandering the landscape of god
http://dancingtreefrog.com

Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.

[Abrimaal]

if (if ... then) failed else
Two big buttons one above the other

[ Open files ] = opens images and projects
[ Add images ] = add images to a blank or an existing project

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2018-01-31 18:00 GMT+01:00 Abrimaal <abri...@wp.pl>:

if (if ... then) failed else
Two big buttons one above the other

[ Open files ] = opens images and projects
[ Add images ] = add images to a blank or an existing project

I disagree: in a way, Hugin never "Opens" images, at least not in the way a word processor opens a text file. The only time Hugin opens an image is when adding it to a project. Actually, Hugin's primary action is not to open an image, it is to add it to the current project. So Hugin *opens* projects, and *adds* images to projects, just as it *closes* projects and *removes* (or is it *delete*?) images from projects. Imagine a folder containing a project and an image with the same name, say Test_1. And now imagine how a newbie could misunderstand what happens when opening Test_1, if open could open the project as well as the image...

[Gunter Königsmann]

That feels a bit like the gimp no more "saving" but "exporting"  images to png:

It is logical in a way. But you have to explain the logic first to every single user. Normally if you have a word/excel/... Document "open" opens documents and "insert" inserts images into this document.

Here the project feels like being individual images being open at the same time so it feels like "open" would add additional ones.

If you set the filter to "all files" hugin actually tells you that, tells how to add images to a project the canonical way and offers to do what you actually want: to open the image files and to add them to the project.

If I don't use hugin for a while I still keep trying to open images, though, the first time I want to add images instead of adding them to the project => allowing "open" to just add images would perhaps make the program more intuitive. Hiding additional functionality here (logic that determines automatically if the user wants to merge projects,...) perhaps won't, though, in my personal opinion.

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[David W. Jones]

Sorry, this feels nothing like the GIMP's attempt to force users to use
their XCF format.

I've never thought of a 'project' as a single 'document' like a
wordprocessor file. So adding images to a Hugin project makes perfect
sense to me.

Now adding an image to a Word document, for instance, actually makes the
inserted image part of the document. Hugin doesn't do that at all - the
project doesn't include the image in the project file. All it has is the
image filename and Hugin-specific settings/information about the image.

So, nope, combining "Open Project" with "Add Images" still makes only
confusion.

On 01/31/2018 09:25 PM, Gunter Königsmann wrote:
> That feels a bit like the gimp no more "saving" but "exporting"  images
> to png:
>
> It is logical in a way. But you have to explain the logic first to every
> single user. Normally if you have a word/excel/... Document "open" opens
> documents and "insert" inserts images into this document.
>
> Here the project feels like being individual images being open at the
> same time so it feels like "open" would add additional ones.
>
> If you set the filter to "all files" hugin actually tells you that,
> tells how to add images to a project the canonical way and offers to do
> what you actually want: to open the image files and to add them to the
> project.
>
> If I don't use hugin for a while I still keep trying to open images,
> though, the first time I want to add images instead of adding them to
> the project => allowing "open" to just add images would perhaps make the
> program more intuitive. Hiding additional functionality here (logic that
> determines automatically if the user wants to merge projects,...)
> perhaps won't, though, in my personal opinion.
>
> Am 31.01.2018 9:49 nachm. schrieb "Frederic Da Vitoria"

> <davi...@gmail.com <mailto:davi...@gmail.com>>:

>
>
>
> 2018-01-31 18:00 GMT+01:00 Abrimaal <abri...@wp.pl

> <mailto:abri...@wp.pl>>:

>
> if (if ... then) failed else
> Two big buttons one above the other
>
> [ Open files ] = opens images and projects
> [ Add images ] = add images to a blank or an existing project
>
>
> I disagree: in a way, Hugin never "Opens" images, at least not in
> the way a word processor opens a text file. The only time Hugin
> opens an image is when adding it to a project. Actually, Hugin's
> primary action is not to open an image, it is to add it to the
> current project. So Hugin *opens* projects, and *adds* images to
> projects, just as it *closes* projects and *removes* (or is it
> *delete*?) images from projects. Imagine a folder containing a
> project and an image with the same name, say Test_1. And now imagine
> how a newbie could misunderstand what happens when opening Test_1,
> if open could open the project as well as the image...
>
> --
> Frederic Da Vitoria
> (davitof)
>
> Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
> http://www.april.org


--