量子計算機正式面世與佛學生死兩存

[BYS]

看來共匪越來越無運行。商用量子計算機正式面世。美國軍火商 lockheed-martin
第一間公司採購，谷歌第二間公司採購。

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/what-quantum-computing-can-do-for-you

So-called quantum computers are designed to quickly crunch numbers that
would take a person a lifetime or longer—for instance, mapping trillions
of amino acids for futuristic drug cures or making sense of the
avalanche of public data we create daily. So what can you get by putting
one to use for your company, as Lockheed Martin (LMT) has since it
bought the world’s first corporate model from D-Wave Systems in 2011? (A
few weeks ago, Google (GOOG) bought the second.)

_________________________________________________

量子計算機跟普通電腦有什麼不一樣呢？普通計算機是計算完一個型態才計算下一
個型態，量子計算機就將整個系統程序一齊計算。

普通電腦的基本單元是 0 或者 是 1。
量子計算機基本計算單元叫 qubit. 是 0 和 1 和 0 和 1 的加疊 一起存在。
再利用 schrodinger equation 薛定愕方程式的線性假設，任何輸入型態是
兩個極端型態(如1和0，生和死)的線性組合。



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit

A bit is the basic unit of information. It is used to represent
information by computers. Regardless of its physical realization, a bit
is always understood to be either a 0 or a 1. An analogy to this is a
light switch— with the off position representing 0 and the on position
representing 1.

A qubit has a few similarities to a classical bit, but is overall very
different. Like a bit, a qubit can have two possible values—normally a 0
or a 1. The difference is that whereas a bit must be either 0 or 1, a
qubit can be 0, 1, or a superposition of both.


_________________________________________________________

背後裡面是利用 hugh everett 的量子“多世界詮釋”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/02/110502fa_fact_galchen

又為何這裡跟佛學和達賴等邪教有關係呢？

佛學其中一個理論就是生死如一，生死共存，相等於薛定愕的貓(schrodinger's
cat) ：
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/sutraland/article?mid=1390&prev=1391&next=-1
生滅同時存在之妙

_______________________________________________

通常佛偈都似乎是無陵兩可。如當我們談論佛學時，陶兄常說我不用邏輯，又不
對我說的啟發定義。量子計算就似乎將兩種型態和其線性組合都變成其輸入因素。
生死和半生半死情況一樣。也可能佛學沒有二元性，於是量子物理學家蜂擁學佛。

又今日世界學佛，以前就日本禪橫行天下，今日就是達賴的藏傳邪教。祖國今日
推行的馬列毛宇宙真理當然跟唯心的佛教完全不吻合。對達賴邪教更是嫉惡如仇。
變成量子計算也不合祖國國情。跟西方制度一樣祖國人民不能採用。

[Axis of Evil]

BYS <B...@bys.com> wrote:
>�ݨӦ@��V�ӶV�L�B��C�ӥζq�l�p����������@�C���x���� lockheed-martin
>�Ĥ@�����q���ʡA���q�ĤG�����q���ʡC

>
>http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/what-quantum-computing-can-do-for-you
>
>So-called quantum computers are designed to quickly crunch numbers that

>would take a person a lifetime or longer�Xfor instance, mapping trillions

>of amino acids for futuristic drug cures or making sense of the
>avalanche of public data we create daily. So what can you get by putting
>one to use for your company, as Lockheed Martin (LMT) has since it
>bought the world��s first corporate model from D-Wave Systems in 2011? (A
>few weeks ago, Google (GOOG) bought the second.)
>
>_________________________________________________
>

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>�ӫ��A�A�q�l�p����N�N��Өt�ε{�Ǥ@���p��C
>
>���q�q�����򥻳椸�O 0 �Ϊ� �O 1�C
>�q�l�p����򥻭p��椸�s qubit. �O 0 �M 1 �M 0 �M 1 ���[�| �@�_�s�b�C
>�A�Q�� schrodinger equation ���w�j��{�����u�ʰ��]�A�����J���A�O
>��ӷ��ݫ��A(�p1�M0�A�ͩM��)���u�ʲզX�C

>
>
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
>
>A bit is the basic unit of information. It is used to represent
>information by computers. Regardless of its physical realization, a bit
>is always understood to be either a 0 or a 1. An analogy to this is a

>light switch�X with the off position representing 0 and the on position

>representing 1.
>
>A qubit has a few similarities to a classical bit, but is overall very

>different. Like a bit, a qubit can have two possible values�Xnormally a 0

>or a 1. The difference is that whereas a bit must be either 0 or 1, a
>qubit can be 0, 1, or a superposition of both.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>

>�I��̭��O�Q�� hugh everett ���q�l���h�@�ɸ�����
>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/02/110502fa_fact_galchen
>
>�S����o�̸��ǩM�F�൥���Ц����Y�O�H
>
>��Ǩ䤤�@�Ӳz�״N�O�ͦ��p�@�A�ͦ��@�s�A�۵������w�j����(schrodinger's
>cat) �G
>http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/sutraland/article?mid=1390&prev=1391&next=-1
>�ͷ��P�ɦs�b����
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>�q�`���U����G�O�L����i�C�p��ڭ̽ͽצ�ǮɡA���S�`���ڤ����޿�A�S��
>��ڻ����ҵo�w�q�C�q�l�p��N��G�N��ث��A�M��u�ʲզX���ܦ����J�]���C
>�ͦ��M�b�ͥb�����p�@�ˡC�]�i���ǨS���G���ʡA��O�q�l���z�Ǯa���־Ǧ�C




1964: �b���j����A�F��Q��ɤU,
����s�y�X�Ĥ@�T��l�u

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTMyMzExODQ=.html


2009: �b���j���F���Q��ɤU,
���o��F�Ĥ@�x�q�l�q��









.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjd26JSaq64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2vV7FDNDEc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw1oqarZfjM


>�S����@�ɾǦ�A�H�e�N�饻�I���ѤU�A����N�O�F�઺�öǨ��СC���ꤵ��
>���檺���C��t�z�u�z��M��ߤߪ���Ч������k�X�C��F�ਸ�Ч�O��c�p���C
>�ܦ��q�l�p��]���X����걡�C�����פ@�˯���H������ĥΡC
>

[BYS]

On 1/6/2013 6:24, Axis of Evil wrote:

> BYS <B...@bys.com> wrote:
>> 看來共匪越來越無運行。商用量子計算機正式面世。美國軍火商 lockheed-martin
>> 第一間公司採購，谷歌第二間公司採購。
>>

>> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/what-quantum-computing-can-do-for-you
>>
>> So-called quantum computers are designed to quickly crunch numbers that

>> would take a person a lifetime or longer—for instance, mapping trillions

>> of amino acids for futuristic drug cures or making sense of the
>> avalanche of public data we create daily. So what can you get by putting
>> one to use for your company, as Lockheed Martin (LMT) has since it
>> bought the world’s first corporate model from D-Wave Systems in 2011? (A
>> few weeks ago, Google (GOOG) bought the second.)
>>
>> _________________________________________________
>>

>> 量子計算機跟普通電腦有什麼不一樣呢？普通計算機是計算完一個型態才計算下一
>> 個型態，量子計算機就將整個系統程序一齊計算。
>>
>> 普通電腦的基本單元是 0 或者 是 1。
>> 量子計算機基本計算單元叫 qubit. 是 0 和 1 和 0 和 1 的加疊 一起存在。
>> 再利用 schrodinger equation 薛定愕方程式的線性假設，任何輸入型態是
>> 兩個極端型態(如1和0，生和死)的線性組合。
>>
>>
>>

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
>>
>> A bit is the basic unit of information. It is used to represent
>> information by computers. Regardless of its physical realization, a bit
>> is always understood to be either a 0 or a 1. An analogy to this is a

>> light switch— with the off position representing 0 and the on position

>> representing 1.
>>
>> A qubit has a few similarities to a classical bit, but is overall very

>> different. Like a bit, a qubit can have two possible values—normally a 0

>> or a 1. The difference is that whereas a bit must be either 0 or 1, a
>> qubit can be 0, 1, or a superposition of both.
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________
>>

>> 背後裡面是利用 hugh everett 的量子“多世界詮釋”
>> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/02/110502fa_fact_galchen
>>
>> 又為何這裡跟佛學和達賴等邪教有關係呢？
>>
>> 佛學其中一個理論就是生死如一，生死共存，相等於薛定愕的貓(schrodinger's
>> cat) ：
>> http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/sutraland/article?mid=1390&prev=1391&next=-1
>> 生滅同時存在之妙
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> 通常佛偈都似乎是無陵兩可。如當我們談論佛學時，陶兄常說我不用邏輯，又不
>> 對我說的啟發定義。量子計算就似乎將兩種型態和其線性組合都變成其輸入因素。
>> 生死和半生半死情況一樣。也可能佛學沒有二元性，於是量子物理學家蜂擁學佛。
>
>
>
>

> 1964: 在偉大的毛澤東思想指導下,
> 中國製造出第一枚原子彈
>
> http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTMyMzExODQ=.html

有個時空，毛澤東製造了原子彈，有個時空，毛澤東沒有製造原子彈。
有無都在其中，量子計算是也。

>
>
> 2009: 在偉大的達賴思想指導下,
> 美國發明了第一台量子電腦
>

第一台商業用量子電腦是在加拿大溫哥華製造。

http://www.fo168.com/Item/Show.asp?m=113&d=1180

過去、現在、未來是同時存在，請問“當處出生，當處滅盡”与“凡所有相，皆是虛
妄”該如何与三世同時存在解說？

佛經告訴我們：這些現象的產生，過去、現在、未來是時間上的現象，十方、十法
界是形式上的現象，這些現象全是虛妄的，是從自己妄想、分別、執著產生的，如
果把妄想、分別、執著放下，這個現象就不存在。(信不信由你，這就是薛定愕的
貓裡面說的 entanglement). 放下妄想、分別、執著，這個境界稱作“一真法界”。
一真法界里沒有過去、現在、未來，沒有十方也沒有十法界，這個問題就解決了。

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

In 1957, Hugh Everett formulated the many-worlds interpretation of
quantum mechanics, which does not single out observation as a special
process. In the many-worlds interpretation, both alive and dead states
of the cat persist after the box is opened, but are decoherent from each
other. In other words, when the box is opened, the observer and the
possibly-dead cat split into an observer looking at a box with a dead
cat, and an observer looking at a box with a live cat. But since the
dead and alive states are decoherent, there is no effective
communication or interaction between them.

When opening the box, the observer becomes entangled with the cat, so
"observer states" corresponding to the cat's being alive and dead are
formed; each observer state is entangled or linked with the cat so that
the "observation of the cat's state" and the "cat's state" correspond
with each other. Quantum decoherence ensures that the different outcomes
have no interaction with each other. The same mechanism of quantum
decoherence is also important for the interpretation in terms of
consistent histories. Only the "dead cat" or "alive cat" can be a part
of a consistent history in this interpretation.

> .
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjd26JSaq64
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2vV7FDNDEc
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw1oqarZfjM
>
>

[Albert K. Fung]

BYS:

> 看來共匪越來越無運行。商用量子計算機正式面世。美國軍火商 lockheed-martin
> 第一間公司採購，谷歌第二間公司採購。
>
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/what-quantum-computing-can-do-for-you

.
.

> 通常佛偈都似乎是無陵兩可。如當我們談論佛學時，陶兄常說我不用邏輯，又不
> 對我說的啟發定義。量子計算就似乎將兩種型態和其線性組合都變成其輸入因素。
> 生死和半生半死情況一樣。也可能佛學沒有二元性，於是量子物理學家蜂擁學佛。
>
> 又今日世界學佛，以前就日本禪橫行天下，今日就是達賴的藏傳邪教。祖國今日
> 推行的馬列毛宇宙真理當然跟唯心的佛教完全不吻合。對達賴邪教更是嫉惡如仇。
> 變成量子計算也不合祖國國情。跟西方制度一樣祖國人民不能採用。

Transcendence ....

Is the unity of all opposites. Which is the principal quest
of all world religions, Buddhism included. BTW: that was an
important reason why Sir Issac Newton was not a believer in
trinity. Ditto for many American founding fathers.

Quantum computers have been in use in US for a decade plus.

Many researchers and mathematicians in various US labs have
been finding numerous algorithms that can be solved by qbit
computing - ever since the first 8-qbit machine was made by
MIT/IBM. Canada's D-Wave, is the first to have successfully
build a 16-qbit system. Many are quite doubtful that it can
be scaled.

The holy grail is a 20-qbit scalable machine ....

Regards,

Albert K. Fung
Rancho del Canto, Paso Robles, California, USA.

[AntiVirAlFungus]

On 6月1日, 上午10时23分, "Albert K. Fung" <akwf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Transcendence ....
(remainder of pompous pansy homo troll-post trash snipped)

Pathetic two-bit-dumb-fuck pansy-troll Fungus .......

BULL!! All you can do is lick the asses of White Americans. You are a
prime example of a "house nigger" !

Up yours, you pansy old senile two-bit faggot dumb fuck! You don't
even know the superstorm was called Sandy, and referred to it as
"Sally" ! Still smelling jasmine from your asshole? You are nothing
but a LIAR and a FRAUD, and NOTHING you write bears any semblance to
the truth, treating public Usenet groups like your useless amateur
literature club. Where is the jasmine revolution which you have been
predicting for China since February last year that would topple the
Chinese government? Go stuff your ginormous asshole with all the
jasmine you've collected, and plug it with your Tesla handbag.

Pansy homo troll Bertie Fungus referred to superstorm Sandy as
"Sally" !

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/108af9dec72d0429?hl=en

Hey, Dumb Fuck! Your English is so bad, that you don't even know the
difference between Sandy and Sally ! You are NOTHING but a pathetic
pompous ugly old fart begging for attention in cyber space.

Still imagining that your room in the loony bin is Rancho del Canto
one week and and Oscar-By-The-Sea another ?

Bwahahahahaha ! How pathetic !

[Axis of Evil]

�٬�§A�ѩj�ײߤF¹F�௪®v��¶q¤l��¥\·|���Ҫ�¶i
,
�֪����¬O�믫���õ.
¬J��±o�ޥÎ Hugh Everett ,
¬O§Y��¬O, ��¬O§Y¬O,

¬O��¬O¹F��±p�̤�¬O��ÃD
, ¬O�����٬O¥[��¤j¤]��¬O��ÃD,







Á`����¬O¹F����·Q����¤j�ӧQ.

[haha]

於 1/6/2013 15:31, BYS 提到:

> 看來共匪越來越無運行。商用量子計算機正式面世。美國軍火商 lockheed-martin
> 第一間公司採購，谷歌第二間公司採購。

十年八年前，量子電腦仍屬「科幻」範疇，想不到現在真的造了出來。
既然已有商用型號，應該很快有個人用的量子電腦，到時我也會買一部來玩玩。
不過話說回來，如此強大的運算能力，對一般人來說也用不著，到頭來也是用作打
機而已。

[BYS]

On 1/6/2013 22:24, haha wrote:
> 於 1/6/2013 15:31, BYS 提到:
>> 看來共匪越來越無運行。商用量子計算機正式面世。美國軍火商 lockheed-martin
>> 第一間公司採購，谷歌第二間公司採購。
>
> 十年八年前，量子電腦仍屬「科幻」範疇，想不到現在真的造了出來。
> 既然已有商用型號，應該很快有個人用的量子電腦，到時我也會買一部來玩玩。
> 不過話說回來，如此強大的運算能力，對一般人來說也用不著，到頭來也是用作打
> 機而已。
>

也可以用來計算一下我們是否真正存在。

法國量子學家 Louis de Broglie，1923年拿諾貝爾物理學獎。為人廣泛知道的
是他的方程式準確的計算光的波動性。正確證明光有粒子性和波動的二元性。

不少人不知道，或者甚至不願提及的是 Louis de Broglie 不只是說光是波動性，
他的方程式更說明世界萬物，你和我都有粒子/波動性二元。而且可以用他的
方程式計算。

http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E8%B7%AF%E6%98%93%C2%B7%E5%BE%B7%E5%B8%83%E7%BD%97%E6%84%8F

以下視頻介紹怎樣用此君方程式計算我們的波動頻率多少。如果複雜的話不用
量子計算機計算也不行。根據這裡理論，我們每個人都可以如電子波動一樣，複製
成多個版本。

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjpg6PRBV58

現在進入量子世界，所以我說話也講到語無倫次。

[Albert K. Fung]

haha:

> 十年八年前，量子電腦仍屬「科幻」範疇，想不到現在真的造了出來。
> 既然已有商用型號，應該很快有個人用的量子電腦，到時我也會買一部來玩玩。
> 不過話說回來，如此強大的運算能力，對一般人來說也用不著，到頭來也是用作打
> 機而已。

BYS:

> 也可以用來計算一下我們是否真正存在。
>
> 法國量子學家 Louis de Broglie，1923年拿諾貝爾物理學獎。為人廣泛知道的
> 是他的方程式準確的計算光的波動性。正確證明光有粒子性和波動的二元性。
>
> 不少人不知道，或者甚至不願提及的是 Louis de Broglie 不只是說光是波動性，
> 他的方程式更說明世界萬物，你和我都有粒子/波動性二元。而且可以用他的
> 方程式計算。
>
> http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E8%B7%AF%E6%98%93%C2%B7%E5%BE%B7%E5%B8%83%E7%BD%97%E6%84%8F
>
> 以下視頻介紹怎樣用此君方程式計算我們的波動頻率多少。如果複雜的話不用
> 量子計算機計算也不行。根據這裡理論，我們每個人都可以如電子波動一樣，複製
> 成多個版本。
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjpg6PRBV58
>
> 現在進入量子世界，所以我說話也講到語無倫次。

All parallel computations ....

Are perfectly suitable for quantum computers. Many simulat
-ions fall nicely into this category. Weather, earthquake,
plate tectonic, etc., are prime examples. And, for system-
atically laying out the ginormously large number of scenar
-ios for extremely low probability events in one single oc
-currence. Some card games, cryptographic analysis, speech
and facial recognitions fall into this category. USA's NEA
and CIA have been using their own QC's for well over a de-
cade, very quietly, for decrypting highly secretive messag
-es. Google, OTOH, wants a highly intelligent and very elo
-quent search/personal assist. Conversing with one's wear-
able computer is game changing.

Albeit through the ubiquitous cloud .... :)

[AntiVirAlFungus]

On 6月3日, 上午10时52分, "Albert K. Fung" <akwf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> All parallel computations ....

[BYS]

On 6/1/2013 1:23 PM, Albert K. Fung wrote:
> BYS:

>
>> �ݨӦ@��V�ӶV�L�B��C�ӥζq�l�p����������@�C���x���� lockheed-martin
>> �Ĥ@�����q���ʡA���q�ĤG�����q���ʡC
>>
>> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/what-quantum-computing-can-do-for-you

> .
> .

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> Transcendence ....
>
> Is the unity of all opposites. Which is the principal quest
> of all world religions, Buddhism included. BTW: that was an
> important reason why Sir Issac Newton was not a believer in
> trinity. Ditto for many American founding fathers.
>

�A�����ҿ�transcendence,��G�u���F���ƩM��l��Ƥ~���C
�H�U�F��{�̡A�q�l���z�Ǯa Fred Alan Wolf ���z�o���ΡC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV402vPn8JU

> Quantum computers have been in use in US for a decade plus.

���O���ΡA�O��s�C�i�඾�֤H���^���F��F�N�C

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�����A�D�w�j�dz�����s�C2012�~���ը������z�Ǽ�N�O�{�o
����q�l�p�⦳�^�m��David Wineland(���)�M �k�ꪺserge
Harouche.

[Albert K. Fung]

BYS:

> 通常佛偈都似乎是無陵兩可。如當我們談論佛學時，陶兄常說我不用邏輯，又不
> 對我說的啟發定義。量子計算就似乎將兩種型態和其線性組合都變成其輸入因素。
> 生死和半生半死情況一樣。也可能佛學沒有二元性，於是量子物理學家蜂擁學佛。
>
> 又今日世界學佛，以前就日本禪橫行天下，今日就是達賴的藏傳邪教。祖國今日
> 推行的馬列毛宇宙真理當然跟唯心的佛教完全不吻合。對達賴邪教更是嫉惡如仇。
> 變成量子計算也不合祖國國情。跟西方制度一樣祖國人民不能採用。

AKF:

> Transcendence ....
>
> Is the unity of all opposites. Which is the principal quest
> of all world religions, Buddhism included. BTW: that was an
> important reason why Sir Issac Newton was not a believer in
> trinity. Ditto for many American founding fathers.

BYS:

> 你說的所謂transcendence,似乎只有東方文化和原始文化才有。
> 以下達賴徒弟，量子物理學家 Fred Alan Wolf 講述這情形。
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV402vPn8JU

Transcending space, time, and, culture ....

Transcendence is universal among all world religions - east
and west, north and south, past and present. Here is a fair-
ly reasonable explanation of the subject, for the benefit of
the esteemed netter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendence_%28religion%29

Hope this helps .... :)

[Albert K. Fung]

BYS:

> 看來共匪越來越無運行。商用量子計算機正式面世。美國軍火商 lockheed-martin
> 第一間公司採購，谷歌第二間公司採購。
>
>
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/what-quantum-computing-can-do-for-you
.
.
> 通常佛偈都似乎是無陵兩可。如當我們談論佛學時，陶兄常說我不用邏輯，又不
> 對我說的啟發定義。量子計算就似乎將兩種型態和其線性組合都變成其輸入因素。
> 生死和半生半死情況一樣。也可能佛學沒有二元性，於是量子物理學家蜂擁學佛。
>
> 又今日世界學佛，以前就日本禪橫行天下，今日就是達賴的藏傳邪教。祖國今日
> 推行的馬列毛宇宙真理當然跟唯心的佛教完全不吻合。對達賴邪教更是嫉惡如仇。
> 變成量子計算也不合祖國國情。跟西方制度一樣祖國人民不能採用。

AKF:

> Quantum computers have been in use in US for a decade plus.
>

> Many researchers and mathematicians in various US labs have
> been finding numerous algorithms that can be solved by qbit
> computing - ever since the first 8-qbit machine was made by
> MIT/IBM. Canada's D-Wave, is the first to have successfully
> build a 16-qbit system. Many are quite doubtful that it can
> be scaled.
>
> The holy grail is a 20-qbit scalable machine ....

BYS:

> 不是應用，是研究。可能馮詩人的英文表達詞不達意。
>
> 美國不少大學研究量子電腦的確是有十多年歷史。而且各研究
> 的目標都不一樣.而且不只是在美國大學，在英國，法國，
> 荷蘭，澳洲大學都有研究。2012年的諾貝爾物理學獎就是頒發
> 給對量子計算有貢獻的David Wineland(美國)和 法國的serge
> Harouche.

The MIT/IBM consortium ....

Was funded by USA's NSA in 2001, to take advantage of Shor's
algorithm. The 7 qbits machine has been in use in the highly
secretive agency for lightning fast symmetric and asymmetric
decryptions. NSA's operation is a highly secretive organizat
-ion which does not reveal what they do. Yesterday the whole
world received a rude awakening:

On a fact or two about their Verizon phones .... :)

BTW: Nobel does not award prize for today's discoveries. It
wants, and seeks, the proof of time.

[zhengs...@gmail.com]

量子计算机秀尔算法的证伪方法
http://taipeibbs.cn/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=53