Grade retention - the new term for flunking
Halifax_Hooligan
Apparently it's bad to hold them back for underachieving , or failing
achieve?
So the alternative is to pass them along, let them graduate from high
school us functionally useless?
Maybe this is so we have a steady source of low income drones!
HH
m...@nospam.com
"Halifax_Hooligan" <skepti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8635214c-cda1-4770...@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
my daughter came home from high school one day and asked.
what's the sense of stressing out ,trying hard and getting good marks,the
dummies in my class do nothing,fail miserably and still get to move up the
next grade with me.
i failed math in grade eight by 2 lousy points(58/60),was held back and made
to repeat it.
jeff
Best
<m...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4d374769$0$8869$9a56...@news.aliant.net...
*This "grade retention" BS is about the silliest thing I have heard. So you
push them ahead, give them a pretend education, and they spend the rest of
their life feeling inadequate. What a farce.
Rob
> *This "grade retention" BS is about the silliest thing I have heard. So
> you push them ahead, give them a pretend education, and they spend the
> rest of their life feeling inadequate. What a farce.
The official reason is to protect their self-esteem, but I say it is to
save money. The sooner they can move you through the system the sooner
they can save their precious money. With politicians and the powers to
be it is all about now, and nothing to do with long term future.
John vG
> "Halifax_Hooligan" <skepticalm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8635214c-cda1-4770...@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/learn/article/747171--should-students...
>
> > Apparently it's bad to hold them back for underachieving , or failing
> > achieve?
>
> > So the alternative is to pass them along, let them graduate from high
> > school us functionally useless?
> > Maybe this is so we have a steady source of low income drones!
>
> > HH
>
> my daughter came home from high school one day and asked.
> what's the sense of stressing out ,trying hard and getting good marks,the
> dummies in my class do nothing,fail miserably and still get to move up the
> next grade with me.
Similar story from my son. There was a gang that entered his school
around grade 7. I said to just keep his head down and do his work and
after grade 9 he would never see them again. Unfortunately some made
it through to high school but that was the end of their academic
careers.
m...@nospam.com
"John vG" <jvan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7005dbf5-15fc-40de...@s5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...> "Halifax_Hooligan" <skepticalm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8635214c-cda1-4770...@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/learn/article/747171--should-students...
>
> > Apparently it's bad to hold them back for underachieving , or failing
> > achieve?
>
> > So the alternative is to pass them along, let them graduate from high
> > school us functionally useless?
> > Maybe this is so we have a steady source of low income drones!
>
> > HH
>
> my daughter came home from high school one day and asked.
> what's the sense of stressing out ,trying hard and getting good marks,the
> dummies in my class do nothing,fail miserably and still get to move up the
> next grade with me.
My son said the same thing when he was going through junior high here
in central Halifax. In around grade 6 one of the inner city schools
closed or reduced size or something and there was an influx of 'tough'
kids. I say tough because they were incredibly loud, seemed to be
lacking impulse control, would pick fights, would disrupt classes and
teachers seemed to be actually afraid to do anything beisdes "speak
patiently" with them.
One teacher I know said it was all explained by the fact they are
poor. No breakfast makes their blood sugar low, yadda yadda yadda blah
blah blah. That teacher went on and on about the untapped potential of
these kids, and how no one had any right to critocize them because
they had it so hard, etc. Funny because these are the same kids that
managed to go to McDonald's for lunch day after day.
So my son expressed the same frustration. Why is it I do my homework,
sit quietly in class and obey rules, these other kids don't do their
school work and disrupt class, and they don't get punished and I don't
get rewarded?
All I could tell him was that for most of the bad kids grade 9
graduation was going to be the high point and maybe the end of their
academic life. I told him to watch who made the biggest deal of
graduation when the time came. I also told him that half of them will
be gone by highschool, and after grade 12 all will be gone and he'll
be surrounded by lots of other people like himself and that's when his
rewards would start to line up. Good education, good job, career and
then a good life.
Sure enough at grade 9 graduation the kids who were disruptive in
classes showed up in the most elaborate suits and dresses, had the
loudest shouting family members, and for the most part were never seen
again.
Why do "we" push all kids through the school system? Good question. I
can see why schools don't want to hang onto them. Then there's the
whole socio-economic and race side of things. If a disproportionatly
large number of those who are held back are poor or from a particular
social or racial group then you have to ask if it's due to systemic
racism. I believe in past it definitely was.
Growing up in north end in the 60s I went to school with the kids from
Africville and there sure appeared to be blatant racism in my school.
So maybe there's an affirmative action effect today? Sort of an echo
from the previous generation...I don't know.
Can we "stream" kids into different education systems like we did in
the past? Different levels? Why yes we still do that. High school has
three levels, with O2 being the more practical level. I think once
upon a time we would have called it business skills or something to
that effect. It's like the old Vocational School approach.
In some European countries there's a strong apprenticeship program in
place, People work while going to school and it seems like a wonderful
system. careers are chosen at a younger age than we do it here. It
relieves young folks of a lot of uncertainty. Not for everyone but a
great approach for many. I wish we did that in Canada. In Europe,
trades are often highly respected with good pay and a good social
status. I don't believe the same is true here although that might be
changing.
Sorry for the long post... it's an interesting topic!
John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
i guess it all worked out,most of the push throughs are working low
end,pregnant or in jail.
most never even applied for nscc.
our daughter graduated and went immediatly into the dal nursing program.
once out of highschool she turned into an entirely different person.
i think in grade 12 she figured out where and what the push throughs would
be doing.
except for some forcful pushing from us ,it could have went horribly bad.
from making her get out of bed to leaving work and finding her to make sure
she went to classes.
they talk about the terrible two's arghhhh the terrible 14's to 18's are
what you should be warned about.
in a way i can see why they want them out of the system as fast as
possible.i really cant see how a jr. high or high school teacher survives.
jeff
Rick Walker
Back when I was in grade school you had to pass - or else you repeated the
grade. I skipped grade one but failed grade 10 the first time. All that
did was even out the ages of the students I was in class with my second time
through grade 10. Ever since grade 2 everyone was a year older than me, in
some cases 2 years because my birthday is in November and my parents got me
into school a little earlier than the 'official' beginning age in those
years.
We had what once were called (and it's not PC at all) 'adjusted' classes for
those that couldn't keep pace with the regular classes.
Today it's all different - in 1993 I hired a guy that graduated from a local
high school who couldn't read or write that well, but he could run a
printing press because he'd taken some kind of apprenticeship course at the
same high school. At least he had that behind him. But for
proof-reading... guess who was responsible for that? :-)
Rick Walker
<m...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> i failed math in grade eight by 2 lousy points(58/60),was held back and
> made to repeat it.
> jeff
I failed grade 11 physics by 3 miserable points (47) and had to take a
drop-back grade 11 along with my grade 12 classes. I passed my physics that
year... with a 53.
- Rick
Rob
were suppose to be some kind of English Gods. Repeat works better, I had
to repeat grade eleven physics. You have to repeat grade eleven physics,
but don't worry, you will not fail.
Rick Walker
"Failing a grade" was how it was referred to when I was in school. Yes, and
you had to repeat it but I did it in conjunction with 5 grade 12 subjects
instead of 6, making grade 11 physics a "drop-back" course. This was the
way it was back in 1974. :-)
Rob
> "Failing a grade" was how it was referred to when I was in school. Yes, and
> you had to repeat it but I did it in conjunction with 5 grade 12 subjects
> instead of 6, making grade 11 physics a "drop-back" course. This was the
> way it was back in 1974. :-)
>
>
Yes, I know, the whole world is wrong. When I had to repeat my year it
was my mother who explained that I was not failing, I was merely
repeating and that I probably would not fail. Besides it will be easier
the second time 'round. She was right and knows English better than the
rest of them. It was the old man who was royally pissed because I failed.
m...@nospam.com
"Rick Walker" <R...@WR.com> wrote in message
news:4d3844a9$0$8895$9a56...@news.aliant.net...
failed is the correct term for the era.
i can remember the wording exactly:
acedemic math 58/60 failed(f)
student will not be advancing.
was not given the summer school option at all.
i think i passed the next year with a 72
jeff
Rick Walker
All that's ancient history now... but I remember both parents were
disappointed with my grade 10 performance. I actually attended the second
time through grade 10 which undoubtedly had an impact on my marks - I
passed. Skipping school the first year taught me a lot about other
things... was it worth it? Nope. I would have learned those things
eventually anyway. Did I have fun? You bet! :-)
Rick Walker
<m...@nospam.com> wrote:
We're close to the same 'vintage', Jeff... I can remember report cards in
elementary school that had a "comments" section where the teacher would
inform parents of areas that required a little more work, or similar things.
James Warren
I made high 90s or 100 in math and physics, only 70s in English, History.
Math and Physics required understanding; English and History required
remembering stuff. Perhaps it was presentation.
--
jw
Rick Walker
"Ice Age" wrote:
>
> The term used when I was in school was failed. Pretty bad, eh? Gets
> worse. If you "failed" 2 grades you were officially designated
> "retarded." No wonder we had so many screwed up kids.
>
> Most of the officially "retarded" ones I knew left school and went on
> to be great mechanics, carpenters, machinists, etc. The top in their
> trade -- the guy you called if you wanted the job done right. So much for
> the genesis at the school board or wherever that came up with the stupid 2
> fails and you are "retarded" rule. Someone out to have given them a swift
> kick in the genitals.
>
I felt the same way about the term 'adjusted' classes in junior high. Most
of those guys I knew became tradesmen too, earning lots of cash because they
were good at their jobs. One fellow whom I've stayed in touch with over the
years caught on at the post office as a letter carrier; he's retired now
with a great pension.
So much for those 'adjusted' classes.
Rob
> All that's ancient history now... but I remember both parents were
> disappointed with my grade 10 performance. I actually attended the second
> time through grade 10 which undoubtedly had an impact on my marks - I
> passed. Skipping school the first year taught me a lot about other
> things... was it worth it? Nope. I would have learned those things
> eventually anyway. Did I have fun? You bet! :-)
>
>
Did you fail? I believe my mother was not truly "disappointed" in any of
my school performances. Except for maybe one year when flu kept me from
a school x-mas concert. I has happy to be so sick. Thank goodness for
women or we'd still be living in the 1930's.
Rick Walker
I'll say I failed... as far a school went anyway. But I achieved a lot more
in other areas that year that had nothing to do with school; all done at the
expense of not attending the majority of my classes. That changed the
second year in grade 10 when I actually attended my classes, and my English
was back on top again.
Both mom and dad were happier when I passed grade 10 then they were the year
I pretended to go to school... I spent most of it in the bowling alley, and
had an average of 110. That earned me some pocket change when we'd have
'money games' with the older fellows. I became a pretty good bowler that
year - had my own locker where I kept my bowling shoes... that's where the
school books would go during most days in 1970.
James Warren
> On 1/20/2011 10:20 AM, Rick Walker wrote:
> designated "retarded." No wonder we had so many screwed up kids.
>
> Most of the officially "retarded" ones I knew left school and went on to be great mechanics, carpenters, machinists,
> etc. The top in their trade -- the guy you called if you wanted the job done right. So much for the genesis at the
> school board or wherever that came up with the stupid 2 fails and you are "retarded" rule. Someone out to have given
> them a swift kick in the genitals.
>
Were you "retarded" Ice? :)
--
jw
Rick Walker
English came second-nature to me... I'd been reading well ahead of my
classes for years, and math was just beyond me. So I always scored highly
in English Too much nonsense to go through to come up with an answer. So I
focused on what I was good at and barely scraped by with subjects that held
little interest to me. History was just plain boring, but I used to be able
to memorize dates and events the night before; I found Chemistry more
enjoyable than Biology, and to this day I can remember some of the periodic
table of elements. Enough for Jeopardy anyway. :-)
Rob
> Severely. And this was a clinical diagnoses by experts in my 20s, not
> according to some school board rule. Imagine. 4'5", 450 pounds, bright
> red hair, buck teeth with a Hitler mustache, lots of zits AND
> chronically mentally challenged on top of it. If anything else were
> wrong, I'll be a Conservative like Jack.
>
What's wrong with redheads? If you ever had a true redhead you'd
probable never go back.
James Warren
In Math and Physics one only had to remember principles. From those everything
else could be figured out. It was logical and lawful. Other subjects were not
like that. They were few or no principles. Nothing hung together very well
from Chemistry (not as neat as Physics), Biology (much less neat), History
and English (very messy).
--
jw
Halifax_Hooligan
> "John vG" <jvang...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
When I went through people failed. The advancing people regardless of
grades started around the time I graduated HS ( 82). It was done
moreso to keep older kids away from younger kids.
There were no such diagnosis of ADD, ADHD or dyslexia. So kids that
were slow, developmentally delayed got shuffled into Occupational
education class.
In the county , in a smaller school that was a class downstairs in a
corner somewhere, no actually grade seperation, just a room full of
slow kids
Now kids complete 25% of the outcomes and they advance.
Glad to hear that most have no aspirations past grade 9, as that will
make HS a lot easier kids.
HH
Rob
> I'll say I failed... as far a school went anyway.
There's always the but.
But I achieved a lot more
> in other areas that year that had nothing to do with school; all done at the
> expense of not attending the majority of my classes. That changed the
> second year in grade 10 when I actually attended my classes, and my English
> was back on top again.
You repeated the year because it was incomplete. You failure! The only
failure I ever see is the system. They failed to teach you Rick, and
that is their only purpose in life. If you fail, they have failed.
>
> Both mom and dad were happier when I passed grade 10 then they were the year
> I pretended to go to school... I spent most of it in the bowling alley, and
> had an average of 110. That earned me some pocket change when we'd have
> 'money games' with the older fellows. I became a pretty good bowler that
> year - had my own locker where I kept my bowling shoes... that's where the
> school books would go during most days in 1970.
>
>
Me too, but it was a snooker table. We would be always dealing with one
hook or another.
Halifax_Hooligan
> On 1/20/2011 11:05 AM, Rick Walker wrote:
>
> > I'll say I failed... as far a school went anyway.
>
> There's always the but.
>
> But I achieved a lot more
Why is failure such a bad word?Ok does not meet outcomes is softer ,
but means essentially the same thing.
Oh we can't bruise the little darlings emotions.
> > in other areas that year that had nothing to do with school; all done at the
> > expense of not attending the majority of my classes. That changed the
> > second year in grade 10 when I actually attended my classes, and my English
> > was back on top again.
>
> You repeated the year because it was incomplete. You failure! The only
> failure I ever see is the system. They failed to teach you Rick, and
> that is their only purpose in life. If you fail, they have failed.
That's the problem, it's always someone else's fault. Don't do the
work , blame the teacher and the system.
Sounds like Rick just skipped school for a year, and paid for it.
HH
Donna W.
I'm pretty partial to redheads since my son's a ginger. It runs in his
father's family. All the women are shades of red but oddly enough it's
the males who had red headed children.
James Warren
Where did you play snooker? What years?
--
jw
Best
"Ice Age" <ice_ag...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d3794a6$0$25690$c3e8da3$2e00...@news.astraweb.com...
> On 1/19/2011 9:24 PM, Best wrote:
>>
>>
>> *This "grade retention" BS is about the silliest thing I have heard. So
>> you push them ahead, give them a pretend education, and they spend the
>> rest of their life feeling inadequate. What a farce.
>
> You are the Power of Positive Thinking personified, aren't you?
*I read you comment, then read all the rest of the posts, from you and
others. You love to throw out a sarcastic insult, then when you see that it
actually provoked some great discussion, you joined in. Way to go, ice.
Rob
> Where did you play snooker? What years?
>
The Cue on Salter Street, 83 onwards but more the years after high
school. I played against The Pasty Face Bandit there. Sometimes we would
wander over to Hunter Street. I wasn't very good but the Q was a cool
hangout, with its architecture and lighting.
Rob
> I'm pretty partial to redheads since my son's a ginger. It runs in his
> father's family. All the women are shades of red but oddly enough it's
> the males who had red headed children.
>
LOL all women are shades of red.
Rob
> Bright red, Rob. Not your average orange with freckles. The ugliest
> shade of red you can imagine. Anyone who's had me never comes back. :-(
>
Oh, clown red.
lharnish
> I'm pretty partial to redheads since my son's a ginger. It runs in his
> father's family. All the women are shades of red but oddly enough it's
> the males who had red headed children.
I had a good chuckle at this one. The topic of redheads have been
discussed on our house. There's a bit of red that runs through my
husband's family but no "pure" gingers. The red tends to show itself
in the beards and mustaches of the males. My husband had brown hair
before he went gray and his beard/mustache grows in a reddish-blond.
His brother is the same way. My daughter was more of a strawberry
blond at birth but went more blond as she got older. She says she's a
closet ginger and got offended awhile back when the stuff went around
about "kick a ginger day". My son has very strong feelings about
ginger haired girls. He says of all the gingers he has met (and when
sizing strangers up on the street), that there is no in between with
gingers - they're either really hot, drop dead gorgeous or they're
really ugly, no average looking girls according to him. I'm trying to
teach him not to be so judgmental about appearances because it is what
is inside that counts. He says you have to like what's on the outside
first LOL!
Best
> doom and gloom. The world isn't perfect, Canada isn't perfect, and
> neither you nor I are perfect. Dwelling on that won't do a thing. You
> can't change it, so go with the flow. Or, give up and adopt George
> Carlin's rules to live by -- especially #8:
<snip>
*What a bunch of hogwash. I have about as must respect for Carlin, as I do
terrorists. He made his money from spouting things for people to laugh at,
not nod their heads and add them to their knowledge base. As to my posts,
there is little doom and gloom. They are intended to be thought provokers, a
few of them as "canaries in the coalmines". Many are straight discussion
pieces, and they generally promote a fair amount of discussion. Sorry if
that bothers you-- this is a discussion group, however.......
James Warren
I hung out at the cue as well but it was the late 60s for me.
It was always full as I remember. Snooker was just about dead
by the late 80s. Cue sports lost out to video games.
--
jw
James Warren
Who was the Pasty Face Bandit?
--
jw
Best
> of support when you tell us over and over that Canada is doomed because of
> your hatred of non-WAS people. I don't buy it. Diversity is the future
> of Canada whether you like it or not. All the moaning and dripping and
> suggestions of dire consequences if we don't stop it is not going to
> change reality. Wake up. It is 2011.
*I am well aware that it is 2011. And that's part of what bothers me. I have
no hatred whatsoever for non-WAS people (as you put it, whatever they
are....) A large number of my friends are not white, many are not
Anglo-Saxon, and many as well are not Protestant. I count quite a few
Muslims among my friends, (which is surprising to me, considering how few we
really have in NS). My friends cover a range - Canadian Blacks, Jewish,
Sudan, Iran, Jordan, and Pakistan. It is certainly not the people - it is
the extremism, and consequences of our weak kneed immigration and legal
system, that bother me. I we had 100,000 more Muslims here, and they were
moderate, working and productive, and loyal citizens -- bring em on!!! And
BTW, in discussions I have had with my immigrant friends, they agree! It's
just you who appears not to!
Donna W.
Are there no more Dooley's left? One of my former coworkers used to
play at the one on Barrington Street as well as a smaller parlour
somewhere around Blowers Street.
Best
<lucreti...@fl.it> wrote in message
news:069hj611qr96cvtvn...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:33:10 -0400, Ice Age <ice_ag...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>> It doesn't bother me what you choose to post. Just don't expect a
>>lot of support when you tell us over and over that Canada is doomed
>>because of your hatred of non-WAS people. I don't buy it. Diversity is
>>the future of Canada whether you like it or not. All the moaning and
>>dripping and suggestions of dire consequences if we don't stop it is not
>>going to change reality. Wake up. It is 2011.
>
> or whatever when in reality you don't know them and what they do. You
> also like to pick on grammar and punctuation, even though your own is
> very far from perfect.
>
> This is usenet and this group in particular is supposed to be about
> discussion. Best is discussing, I may not like where he goes with
> it, but he is discussing and it's not for you to decide that you don't
> like his posts and he must alter them or desist.
*I don't like where I "go with it" either sometimes, but I am forced to by
the comments and replies that get posted. If we all came at things the same
way from the same background, and constantly agreed, it would be a brief,
boring, session of head nodding. And I might add, I for one would learn no
other points of view, or input.
Best
"Rob" <nos...@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:iha2oc$a3v$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
*I spent a lot of time at The Cue between 1970 and 75. Would be there at
least 4 times a week, for a short or long time. I thought it was a cool,
fancy, place to go. (When not at one of the other joints in town.)
James Warren
Dooley's is strictly pool. They have no snooker tables except
one at a couple of locations.
The one on Barrington street closed a few years ago.
--
jw
Donna W.
<jwwar...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, notice the Barrington Stl one was gone. Thought there might be
others left. Can't remember what the one on Blowers Street was called
but I remember the coworker saying he beat a rather well known person
at a game there.
kozmo
wrote:
> http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/learn/article/747171--should-students...
>
> Apparently it's bad to hold them back for underachieving , or failing
> achieve?
>
> So the alternative is to pass them along, let them graduate from high
> school us functionally useless?
> Maybe this is so we have a steady source of low income drones!
>
> HH
someone's gotta work at walmart.
Best
"Donna W." <MY...@home.ca> wrote in message
news:o2khj6lbnrnf6f1mt...@4ax.com...
*He must be good- we have some crackerjack players here. Ken Shea, in his
70's, is in the Hall of fame -he plays out of Burnside snooker
Club -amazing to watch, very slick. some of his accomplishments -
30 Maritime Snooker Championships,
numerous Nova Scotia Provincial Championships,
many quality appearances at the North American
and Canadian Championships
with a personal best showing of 2nd place to Cliff Thorburn who eventually
went on to become a World Champion, he also has recorded 12 perfect games in
snooker (meaning that he has attained the maximum of 147 points in one
appearance at the table), this is a feat that some of the best players, in
the world, never achieve, in 1997 Ken placed third at the BCA North American
8 Ball Championships held in Las Vegas.
Ken considers one of his personal best performances to be while playing
World Champion Fred Davis, Fred was forced to come back from a 3-1 deficit
to beat Ken in a seventh and deciding game by the black ball. Ken was also a
member of the Metro Pool League team that has won approximately 15 of the
last 20 championships, and has been honored by the league as Most Valuable
Player at least twice and has recorded several high averages and individual
accomplishments to his credit.
Ken has always been recognized as one of the most personable gentlemen of
the sport and is always willing to pass along his knowledge and experience
to the younger players, repaying in part to a sport which he feels has
afforded so many opportunities to him.
Donna W.
>
>"Donna W." <MY...@home.ca> wrote in message
>news:o2khj6lbnrnf6f1mt...@4ax.com...
The well known person my former coworker beat wasn't well known for
playing pool or snooker. He was better known at that point for being
drunk and disorderly in public but before that was a well known actor
(Michael Morairty formerly of Law and Order).
James Warren
All true. Ken still plays a very good game but with a glass of wine per
frame his performance suffers a little as the matches wear on. :)
He is 75 now. I drove him home a few times after he had a few. He always
has a great story to tell.
--
jw
John vG
I remember it being bought by Leo Arkelian (Halcraft Printers). I was
a young teen at the time and we entered the place on the day he took
ownership. It was quite something... as if sealed for a decade. There
was a layer of dust on everything and a sort of mystical smell and
look. Very interesting. We worked a couple of weekends with mops and
buckets and cleaning supplies and got to enjoy the breaks. Despite
playing many games I am still a spaz.
Rick Walker
"Rob" <nos...@eastlink.ca> wrote:
>
> What's wrong with redheads? If you ever had a true redhead you'd probable
> never go back.
I find redheads to be quite attractive (females, not guys that look like Ice
Age.) That porcelain skin highlighted by long, straight red hair has been
looking better to me for years now. I wasn't always drawn to redheads but
lately things have changed.
James Warren
Risky business Rick. :)
--
jw
Rick Walker
Naw... I'm happily married, but I'm not dead yet. I just appreciate things
more now, James. :)
Rick Walker
"Rob" <nos...@eastlink.ca> wrote:
>
> You repeated the year because it was incomplete. You failure! The only
> failure I ever see is the system. They failed to teach you Rick, and that
> is their only purpose in life. If you fail, they have failed.
>
They had no choice but to fail... I wasn't there for over half the year, so
they didn't have the chance to teach me. Not their fault at all.
>>
>> Both mom and dad were happier when I passed grade 10 then they were the
>> year
>> I pretended to go to school... I spent most of it in the bowling alley,
>> and
>> had an average of 110. That earned me some pocket change when we'd have
>> 'money games' with the older fellows. I became a pretty good bowler that
>> year - had my own locker where I kept my bowling shoes... that's where
>> the
>> school books would go during most days in 1970.
>>
>>
>
> Me too, but it was a snooker table. We would be always dealing with one
> hook or another.
We'd bowl all day for money sometimes - I'd have won enough by lunchtime to
pay for my food and my bowling in the afternoon. And still win a few bucks
then. We'd all go home for supper and return at night to 'practice', which
may of may not have included bowling. :-)
Rick Walker
"Donna W." <MY...@home.ca> wrote:
>
> Are there no more Dooley's left? One of my former coworkers used to
> play at the one on Barrington Street as well as a smaller parlour
> somewhere around Blowers Street.
We still have one over here... strip mall at the corner of Baker Drive and
Portland. Very close to M&M.
Donna W.
Reminds me of what a friend once told me. "My wife doesn't mind me
looking at the menu so long as I only dine at home". :-)
Rick Walker
That's the stuff, Donna. I keep telling her when I stop looking, well...
that's the time to really be concerned. ;-)
Halifax_Hooligan
Rob
> I hung out at the cue as well but it was the late 60s for me.
> It was always full as I remember. Snooker was just about dead
> by the late 80s. Cue sports lost out to video games.
>
Yes, there was always a table available unless there was a tournament
going on or something. Sometimes we would even have the place to ourselves.
Rob
>> The Cue on Salter Street, 83 onwards but more the years after high
>> school. I played against The Pasty Face Bandit there.
>> Sometimes we would wander over to Hunter Street. I wasn't very good
>> but the Q was a cool hangout, with its architecture
>> and lighting.
>
> Who was the Pasty Face Bandit?
>
He turned out to be a local bank robber. The police had a sketch of him
on all the news channels, but I did recognize it until after the fact.
He played at Kenny's table and was on the top ten in Canada prior to all
that. I payed the table time.
John vG
wrote:
> http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/learn/article/747171--should-students...
>
> Apparently it's bad to hold them back for underachieving , or failing
> achieve?
>
> So the alternative is to pass them along, let them graduate from high
> school us functionally useless?
> Maybe this is so we have a steady source of low income drones!
>
> HH
You know something... I see a similar thing at my office but it's most
likely the Peter Principle: "In a hierarchy, members are promoted so
long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a
position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of
incompetence"), and there they remain, being unable to earn further
promotions."
Rick Walker
Halifax_Hooligan
I see the similarilies, but they weren't promoted despite past
failures or inadequacies.
Many times you don'tknow how someone will function until they are
actually in the job.
The problem you describe is in the assesment tools used to hire the
person, not so much the person themselves.
HH
John vG
wrote:
Yes I see your point. It's different.
James Warren
It's hard to make a living playing snooker in Canada. :)
--
jw
Rob
Three hots and a cot should subsidize the difference.
Best
"John vG" <jvan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:953223f3-1041-4984...@c39g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
*and thanks to unions, the NSTU being one of the worst, unable to be
demoted, or moved into jobs they are competent at. As a result, they destroy
productivity, and spent their time trying to derail management.
John vG
> "John vG" <jvang...@gmail.com> wrote in message
That's funny because the people I am thinking of *are* managers! :-)
Best
*I agree with you. However, companies have an easier time getting rid of
incompetent managers. Manipulative unions are the problem.
wmd
> *and thanks to unions, the NSTU being one of the worst, unable to be
> demoted, or moved into jobs they are competent at. As a result, they
> destroy productivity, and spent their time trying to derail management.
I don't think the NSTU destroys productivity in the same sense as
production unions (if you believe that supposed fact), since a teacher's
work is largely individual in terms of working with their own
students/classes. The motivation is intrinsic for those good teachers,
since we work in a profession dedicated to helping people.
Don't scoff or laugh... if most teachers didn't care, you'd see a very
different education system, and not a nice one. I will say that there
are increasing numbers of teachers who don't care, who do it only for
the summers, etc., but most are still in it for the right reasons.
There are elements of the job that cause motivation to fall, but
complaints are mostly about the things we need to do that don't have a
meaningful impact on students. For instance, the paperwork and
bureaucratic accountability pieces, which take a lot of time but provide
few (if any) tangible benefits.
Another point you need to remember about the NSTU: Many people in
management-type positions are also union:
Vice Principals
Principals
School Administration Supervisors
School Administration Coordinator
Staffing Facilitators
Director of School Administration
All of these people are union. They are on the seniority list and
benefit from the same Collective Agreements which apply to teachers,
including benefits, pension, and base salary plus the allowances for the
various supervisory roles.
Most of the Program Department staff are also union. The Superintendent
is not union, nor are any of the HR Department staff.
wmd
Best
"Ice Age" <ice_ag...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d3ca162$0$17074$c3e8da3$92d0...@news.astraweb.com...
> On 1/23/2011 5:23 PM, Best wrote:
>>
>> *and thanks to unions, the NSTU being one of the worst, unable to be
>> demoted, or moved into jobs they are competent at. As a result, they
>> destroy productivity, and spent their time trying to derail management.
>
> Labour. What do you want to destroy it? Seeing as it is the essential
> component to everything we have, I prefer to have strong labour, not
> slaves who are forced to work for minimum wage. Unions make strong
> labour.
*Everything that is produced in the world also requires one thing- planning,
design, and capital! (call that labour if you want, but it is more often
innovation and risk taking.) Workers take no risk. Unions take zero risk,
except they bleed off union dues, even from those not in the unions. Why do
you think so many jobs are fleeing North America? It is due to the greed and
inflexibility of unions. But it is backfiring on unions now, as their
numbers are quickly eroding. I had lunch last week with an individual who
will remain unnamed, who laid out for me the path to how what used to be a
90-10 split between construction costs and design costs in building large
buildings, is now, in many cases, as low as 60-40. The building is designed
and built conceptually and in 3-D modeling perspective, in great detail,
before a shovel or hammer is lifted. This reduces labour significantly.
demibee
>
> *What a bunch of hogwash. I have about as must respect for Carlin, as I do
> terrorists. He made his money from spouting things for people to laugh at,
> not nod their heads and add them to their knowledge base. As to my posts,
> there is little doom and gloom. They are intended to be thought provokers, a
> few of them as "canaries in the coalmines". Many are straight discussion
> pieces, and they generally promote a fair amount of discussion. Sorry if
> that bothers you-- this is a discussion group, however.......
If Carlin did say that (there's a lot on the 'net attributed to him
that he didn't say), it would have been very sarcastic... i.e., a list
of descriptions of what people *actually* do, rather than what they
should. He certainly didn't follow that advice himself! ;)
db
demibee
> . . . History and English (very messy).
History is taught horribly. Lots of names and dates are given with
very little context. There's no real attempt to connect it all
together... it's just a bunch of facts.
Maybe history and (political) geography should be taught together as
one subject; it'd give *some* context. History creates geography, and
geography sets the stage for history.
db
Best
> from a Timbit to the space shuttle without labour.
>
> If you would use the cheapest ingredients you could find for a Timbit,
> it would taste like junk and no one would buy it. If you used the
> cheapest material you could find for the space shuttle, it would not get
> off the ground.
>
> If you think cheaping out on your major ingredient of anything you
> make (labour) is a good strategy, just wait and see how well it turns out.
*The labor component in goods and services is a fraction today of what it
was years ago. Better design, better tools, better materials, all conspire
to reduce labour. The ideal would be to get it to a zero labour component
that is INFLUENCED BY UNIONS (pardon my emphasis) as most unions have no
interest in adding value -- only adding $$ in their own pockets.
Best
"wmd" <wmd...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:ihiffh$nv1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
*The problem with the teaching profession is that there is no system of
evaluation, and subsequent consequences, positive or negative, for teachers.
Now it is- put in the time, move up,-- teach poorly keep your job --- get
more training or a higher degree, get paid more, (the galling part of that
is the teachers who get a higher teaching licence just before they retire,
so they can improve their pension) . It has absolutely nothing to do with
results-- what success are they achieving with their students? How are their
students improving?
James Warren
I agree, history needs a context. One needs to know something about the
times, how people lived, what were the customs and dominant ideas of the
times and the geography. The state of the economies and the personalities
of the major figures is important too. It help to understand what happened,
how it happened and why it happened and how it might have happened
differently. This would make it interesting.
--
jw
wmd
> *The problem with the teaching profession is that there is no system of
> evaluation, and subsequent consequences, positive or negative, for
> teachers. Now it is- put in the time, move up,-- teach poorly keep your
> job --- get more training or a higher degree, get paid more, (the
> galling part of that is the teachers who get a higher teaching licence
> just before they retire, so they can improve their pension) . It has
> absolutely nothing to do with results-- what success are they achieving
> with their students? How are their students improving?
I agree entirely with you that there ought to be a better way to get rid
of the dead weight. The problem, as I see it, is the implementation of
such a process. I argued this point in another thread - I think you were
part of that debate - so I have nothing more to add here.
Luckily, we aren't in a crisis situation. Despite the bad apples in the
teaching profession, most teachers are still dedicated professionals who
are doing a good job teaching the children of this province.
A lot of emphasis is placed on standardized test results, and it is
unfortunate that the data from these tests isn't better understood.
There are trends in the data that are of concern, but the deficiencies
of the tests and interpretation of results ought to be better explained
to the public (and to teachers, for that matter).
Having said that, the media always seems to emphasize the negative
results. I've complained about this before. I've witnessed it myself...
the negative results will generate a major story in the newspaper, or
one of the lead feature stores on the television news, complete with
interviews. Positive results, on the other hand - if they are mentioned
at all - will usually be a minor story in the paper, or one of those
short, anchor-read items on the news. No wonder so many have a dim view
of education.
Did you know, for example, that our students improved in the
international PISA results in 2009? Our students improved against
students in other Canadian provinces compared to 2006 results, and they
also continue to be among the best in the WORLD academically.
http://gov.ns.ca/news/details.asp?id=20101207004
However, all it takes is one encounter with a lazy teenager at Wendy's
who uses the cash register to calculate the change, and all of the
sudden kids can't do math!
It's always an interesting discussion - please don't interpret this post
as being angry, just highly interested. I am trying to clarify that
these days, since I think I sometimes might come across as being angry
in my posts - I'm not! :)
wmd
Halifax_Hooligan
> On 23/01/2011 10:03 PM, Best wrote:
>
> > *The problem with the teaching profession is that there is no system of
> > evaluation, and subsequent consequences, positive or negative, for
> > teachers. Now it is- put in the time, move up,-- teach poorly keep your
> > job --- get more training or a higher degree, get paid more, (the
> > galling part of that is the teachers who get a higher teaching licence
> > just before they retire, so they can improve their pension) . It has
> > absolutely nothing to do with results-- what success are they achieving
> > with their students? How are their students improving?
>
> I agree entirely with you that there ought to be a better way to get rid
> of the dead weight. The problem, as I see it, is the implementation of
> such a process. I argued this point in another thread - I think you were
> part of that debate - so I have nothing more to add here.
>
organization is properly staffed and trained.
There are usually some menial or repetitive taks the dead weight can
be given that keeps them out of the way of the productive staff.
When you get below a critical staff level, the dead weight becomes
more apparent as productivity suffers, morale starts to drop,etc. When
those secondary tasks get dropped entirely, and everyone has to focus
on the primary focus of the organization. It's at this time you
realize what a pain unions are, because they show they are only
interested in the dues they get, not good working relations.
HH
Best
> living because of poor wages, including those who designed better tools
> and invented better materials. Someone would get a bright idea and think
> of a concept called "Trade Unions" and the whole cycle would start over
> again.
*The ones today who "design better tools and invent better materials" are
not in a union, nor do they want to be. They make too much money for that
BS.
Best
*I don't interpret you are being angry, just concerned and interested. I
agree, there are many wonderful students, many wonderful teachers, and many
average ones of each. Our goal has to be to improve that average. We are on
the same wavelength, and finding a method of evaluation for teachers is part
of the solution. One company I worked for had a 4 point evaluation method,
mainly quantitative - 1)results 2)evaluation by your boss 3) evaluation by
a subordinate (if there was one) 4) evaluation by a peer. The interesting
twist was if one of the 4 was out by a fair degree from the others, then
that person was investigated further, to see if there was a particular
problem. Staff loved it, as did I.
Richard Bonner
> In some European countries there's a strong apprenticeship program in
> place, People work while going to school and it seems like a wonderful
> system. careers are chosen at a younger age than we do it here. It
> relieves young folks of a lot of uncertainty. Not for everyone but a
> great approach for many. I wish we did that in Canada. In Europe,
> trades are often highly respected with good pay and a good social
> status. I don't believe the same is true here although that might be
> changing.
>
> John
*** I believe it is. "Vocational School" has been replaced with "Career
College".
I know some very smart students that chose this route. In particular,
one female student with whom I worked all through high school is taking
electronics at NSIT. I praised her for that.
Richard
Richard Bonner
> On 1/20/2011 10:20 AM, Rick Walker wrote:
> > "Failing a grade" was how it was referred to when I was in school. Yes, and
> > you had to repeat it but I did it in conjunction with 5 grade 12 subjects
> > instead of 6, making grade 11 physics a "drop-back" course. This was the
> > way it was back in 1974. :-)
> Yes, I know, the whole world is wrong. When I had to repeat my year it
> was my mother who explained that I was not failing, I was merely
> repeating and that I probably would not fail. Besides it will be easier
> the second time 'round. She was right and knows English better than the
> rest of them. It was the old man who was royally pissed because I failed.
*** Failure is good; it focuses one on what he doesn't know.
Richard
wmd
> *I don't interpret you are being angry, just concerned and interested. I
> agree, there are many wonderful students, many wonderful teachers, and
> many average ones of each. Our goal has to be to improve that average.
> We are on the same wavelength, and finding a method of evaluation for
> teachers is part of the solution. One company I worked for had a 4 point
> evaluation method, mainly quantitative - 1)results 2)evaluation by your
> boss 3) evaluation by a subordinate (if there was one) 4) evaluation by
> a peer. The interesting twist was if one of the 4 was out by a fair
> degree from the others, then that person was investigated further, to
> see if there was a particular problem. Staff loved it, as did I.
>
That's actually a neat evaluation system.
In the case of teachers, perhaps the evaluations could be sought from
parents, a random colleague and the principal. Perhaps student
evaluations could be included at older levels, but with an element of
caution.
With the parent evaluations, there would need to be an averaging of the
responses somehow, perhaps by dropping the best and worst evaluations.
One saying that I've heard many times is that, most everyone who can
reproduce, sends their children to school. That includes the parents who
are a little bit crazy, or who have an axe to grind, or who have an
agenda, etc. To make any evaluation legitimate, there would need to be
some type of buffer or insulation from those types of parent responses.
I've been fortunate in my career: I've only had one parent who clearly
didn't like me, but she didn't like anyone at the school. She felt that
everyone was out to "get" her child, so any type of discipline, however
minor, was unacceptable. Persecution complex, I would guess.
It's an interesting system, Best.
wmd
Best
*And you have some good suggestions for modifications. The question is --
why isn't everyone as smart as you and I?
Jack
On 11-01-25 9:50 PM, in article
4d3f7e02$0$19257$c3e8da3$a909...@news.astraweb.com, "Ice Age"
<ice_ag...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 1/25/2011 9:34 PM, Best wrote:
>>
>> *And you have some good suggestions for modifications. The question is
>> -- why isn't everyone as smart as you and I?
>
> Ask Jack-in-the-box. According to him, we are all "left-tards!" :-)
Not all...just some of "YOU" lol
-------------------------------------
The lefties are all for free speech unless of course it's not theirs.