Hermes-Lite 2.0 Build7 Group Buy

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

I'm planning the next Hermes-Lite 2.0 group buy for early June. If you would like to add your name to the waiting list, please send e-mail to herme...@gmail.com. 

With the last group buy, I found that the expenses quickly added up for shipping and tariffs on the AD9866 and FPGA. Motivated by this, I may try something different this time. I will have the boards minus the AD9866 and FPGA assembled by Elecrow and shipped to me. I will have Zel Pro Solutions hand install the AD9866 and FPGA here. This won't cost any less, but is interesting to me if it is the same cost for these reasons:

* Instead of shipping and tariffs, the extra money would be paying workers in my neighborhood

* Better control over testing

* Easier to kit shipments, for example include all extra parts, enclosure plus N2ADR filter board and parts

* Still manageable if group buys are 25 units 3 or 4 times a year, only if and when we sell 100s of units does it make sense to go with larger production in China

I'm still pricing options and discussing with Zel Pro. The target price for an assembled board would still be around $200. Kitting with extra parts would be more, but hopefully still below $300. Do people prefer buying a complete kit, or is it okay to buy all the various items from different vendors?

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Graeme Jury]

Hello Steve,

Thanks for arranging another group buy and I have already indicated my intention to purchase one. I like your new approach and feel that it will take a lot of the load of toing and froing out of the equation for you and as you suggest keep the work in your own backyard - as I would do here in your shoes.

In my own case I would just want the board plus add on components and a bare N2ADR PCB as it would be used a the host for a number of experimental peripherals and I have no idea what kind of case it will finish up in or even if there would be one at all. For others who want a 5 W output radio they probably want a kit of everything plus the case and I suspect would make up the majority. I guess there will be some experimenters who will want just the built up board though.

I think the HL2 is ready for prime time and the possibility of selling in the 100's is real so it would be good to plan for this.

73, Graeme zl2apv

[Karl Heinz Kremer]

Steve,

What exactly would be included in the “Kitting with extra parts” option?

Karl Heinz Kremer
PDF Acrobatics Without a Net
PDF Software Development, Training and More...
http://www.khkonsulting.com

> On May 20, 2018, at 10:43 PM, Steve Haynal <softerh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Kitting with extra parts

[Keith Hornbaker]

Curious if there is way to see where you are on the waiting list thanks?

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Keith,

No, it is just a simple gmail account and I send out offers in the order received. There are about 30 people waiting now.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Karl,

I'm thinking about most of the add-ons described on this page plus a bare N2ADR board and all parts to assemble it. So:

TX transmit balun plus wire

TR relay

Optional power supply connector?

Optional enclosure plus mounting screw and nut?

Optional USB Blaster clone?

N2ADR filter board bare PCB

All parts to assemble the N2ADR filter board and mate properly with HL2

With these extra parts, one would only need to have a good power supply to operate. The unit would still need 3D printed endcaps to complete with the optional enclosure.

All this would probably add $60 to $70 dollars including extra shipping weight.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Peter Johnson]

Hi All.

Time to upgrade from the early Hermes-Lite.

Do any of the UK hams who have recently bought the Hermes-Lite 2 know
what the import charges would be.

73 Peter M1BCV

[James Savage]

No import charges received yet and parcel received about a month ago.

James

[Wolfram Perrey]

Hello Steve, as basic shipment since every individual build would need that items anyway:

- The Board

- The recommended TX transmit balun plus the right wire

- The TR relay

- A USB Blaster clone (So cheap that it make nearly no difference)

[Jim Smith]

Hi Peter, 

I paid the DHL delivery man £30 (by cheque). 

Jim - G3ZQC

[Steve Haynal]

Hi All,

The question of import charges is interesting and may vary in the future. Elecrow asks me what value to declare, and I asked for $135 per unit in the last run. This is actually undervalued as it just covers materials and no labor. Elecrow, like many companies in China, usually drastically undervalues shipped items. In this last run, I don't think the $135 request made it to the shipping department and several units, if not all, were shipped with a declared value of about $9. This bypasses import charges, but don't like this for several reasons. First, it is illegal. Second, a shipping company like DHL will not allow you to insure for more than the declared value. So if the package is lost, you have to take the loss. 

If I do have HL2 final assembly in the US for the next group buy, I will declare the full value when shipping. I don't know how this will impact foreign buyers.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[RHQQ2YXRKT]

 

A while back, there was a message on another list which stated that the UK tariff code for imported amateur radio transceivers is 8525 2099 00 and
further that if the supplier quotes this on the customs declaration the recipient will not be charged import duty as the item is zero rated.  

 

I have not checked this myself.  UK import tariffs can be checked here  https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/trade-tariff/sections   I don’t have time to do this today.

 

Apparently there is a Harmonized Commodity Description and Coding System, also known as the Harmonized System (HS) of tariff nomenclature which is an internationally standardized system of names and numbers to classify traded products.      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_System

 

John G3UGY

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[pascal.v...@gmail.com]

For information, DHL has charged  37 € for the HL2 delivered in France (French VAT 22 + "surcharges" 15 € = DHL fees for pre-payment of VAT to the customs ! ) based on 110 € value declared by the maker.

73, Pascal  F6EHP

[James Savage]

Ah - I was too quick off the mark.  Someone at DHL must have been listening.  Have today received an invoice from DHL for £30  £19.19 of which was VAT and £11 of which was presumably the handling charge.

James

[James Savage]

And the tarric code used to calculate the tax was C210000600  

[pascal.v...@gmail.com]

Usually, DHL asks you to pay immediately at delivery, and send you an invoice for a few days / weeks after, even if you have already paid. Make sure nobody has paid for you!

[David Wilde M0WID]

I think I am already in the waiting list? My preference would be to purchase all, or at least most, of the parts including enclosure in one go. But if this turns out to be too much work for you then any other option is fine. I am quite happy to assemble as much as is practical with soldering iron or hot air. Just plug and play is less challenging and therefore less satisfying.
Looking forward to this, should be fun.

Dave M0WID

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

Just a quick update on next Hermes-Lite 2 build 7 group buy.

Zelpro assembly solutions has agreed to attach the AD9866 and FPGA for the target price I gave them. This next round will have the PCBs fabricated and all but two of the surface mount components assembled at Elecrow in China. The remaining two components will be assembled here by ZelPro. Test and fulfillment will also be done here in Portland Oregon. This will make it easier to put together more complete kits.

I hope to send updated HL2 gerber files to Elecrow for a new quote soon. The only change from build6 will be to update the silk screen to build7.

As a test, I kitted two N2ADR boards for some buyers in the US who are buying the last few build6 units. This was actually difficult and time consuming give the many BOM items (for the various filters) used on the N2ADR board. I won't do this for build7. I may have Elecrow quote for turnkey fabrication and assembly of just the surface mount components on these boards. I may just have an option to include bare N2ADR filter boards. I also want to make one or two minor changes to the N2ADR filter board to attempt to reduce 160MHz spurs.

The price of a build7 unit should be the same as a build6 unit. US customers may see shipping go down by about $5, but international customers may see shipping go up by about $5.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Rod Wall]

Hi Steve,

Will Elecrow be testing their work that they do without the AD9866 and FPGA defore sending them? Or will they send them untested?

Regards,

Roderick Wall, vk3yc.

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Rod,

Elecrow will do a visual inspection. This is what they did for the build3 units, all of which worked. 

I will do a more thorough testing after the AD9866 and FPGA are installed here. One of the attractions of having the last two parts assembled here is the ability to do better testing. I've had communication problems with Elecrow regarding testing in the past.

73,

Steve

KF7O

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[Dieter Kedrowitsch]

Just a suggestion for the N2ADR board, if you're going to be changing the layout it would be nice to have notches in the the PCB edge for the SMA sockets to be recessed into the PCB so the outer surface of the socket is flush with the edge of the board.  This eliminates the need for square or oversized round holes in the enclosure ends, and makes for a clean appearance.

W3DRK

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 1:03:39 AM UTC-4, Steve Haynal wrote:

Hi Group,

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Dieter,

Okay. I may modify the N2ADR board this weekend and will try to do this.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

I have released build7: https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/tree/master/hardware/hl/releases/hl2p0build7

The only changes from build6 are updated silkscreen to build7, and 6 components (all through hole, FPGA and ADC) are removed from the Elecrow assembly BOM as they will be assembled here.

I have received a quote from Elecrow and it is about what I expected.

This weekend I hope to finalize shipping prices and send out offers for the next 25 units.

I still hope to make minor updates to the N2ADR board and submit it for partial assembly bids as well. If the timing works out, Elecrow can assemble the N2ADR boards while ZelPro is doing the final assembly of the HL2 units.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Freeman Pascal]

Steve,

I haven't been keeping up with build7, so this question may have been answered already. Since I have a Build6 board is it possible to buy a built out N2ADR boards separate from the build7 board? I'd like to pick up two of the N2ADR boads and a build7 board in the group buy.

-Freeman, N5FPP

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Freeman,

If the partially built N2ADR board pipeline comes together, I will offer it stand alone too. 

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

I have sent out invitation e-mails to the next 25 people on the Hermes-Lite 2.0 waiting list for build7. See below for the e-mail, but please don't consider this an invitation unless you receive the e-mail directly from herme...@gmail.com. There are still 15 people remaining on the list. Some of these remaining people may receive an invitation in the next few days if any of the first 25 pass on this round.

73,

Steve

KF7O

Hi,

I am organizing a group buy of 25 assembled Hermes-Lite 2.0 build7 units for delivery hopefully in August. You have expressed interest in purchasing a Hermes-Lite 2.0 and this e-mail is your invitation. To purchase a unit, please send the amount required for your single Hermes-Lite and selected shipping method via PayPal to (removed) within the next 2 days. Please make sure PayPal has your preferred shipping address. If you are not interested in this round, please let me know as soon as possible so I can give your spot to someone else. Here are the details:

**$200 unit cost

This includes an assembled Hermes-Lite 2.0 build7 unit as documented on github: printed circuit board with BOM components from the BOM on that release page assembled. It also includes the relay, T3 core and CW key jack for your final assembly. These three final components are through hole. It *does not include* the enclosure, power supply, N2ADR filter board (may become an add-on, see below) or any of the additional components or add-ons described here.

Your payment includes a contribution to the insurance fund as described in this post. Read that post for refund details in event of a bad unit. Only that limited refund policy is offered. The build7 contribution to the insurance fund is 10% of the unit cost and is already included in the $200. There is about $400 in the insurance fund left from build6.

**Shipping options (Choose one):

***Domestic (USA)

$4 USPS first class air mail

$8 USPS priority flat rate box

***International

$18 USPS first class air mail

$36 USPS priority flat rate box

Since order fulfillment will be done in the US, only US postal service shipping options will be available.

Elecrow, www.elecrow.com, will be the company manufacturing the 25 units. Elecrow has built 40 Hermes-Lite 2.0 units and has the most experience with the Hermes-Lite 2.0. We have had good success and been able to fix any problems with the insurance fund. I have used Elecrow for other small batch assembly projects in the past and have always been happy with their work.

The two most expensive surface mount parts, the FPGA and the AD9866, will be installed by Zelpro Assembly Solutions which is about 1 kilometer from where I live. They did similar work for the partial Hermes-Lite 1.0 kits without any problems. 

Some testing, the initial FPGA firmware programming as well as order fulfillment will be done by myself. This allows for more thorough testing, although it will still mainly be a screening test, as well as inclusion of the T3 core with wire and relay as part of the kit.

I am also investigating including a bare N2ADR filter board or a partially assembled N2ADR filter board with surface mount components installed and through hole components kitted. I can't guarantee if this will be available when build7 is ready to ship, but if everything comes together, then you can add one of these options to your order at a later date. I will send an additional e-mail with extra cost and shipping details once finalized. 

The Hermes-Lite 2.0 is a very experimental and bare bones amateur radio. It is expected that you will be involved in finishing the radio. In some cases, you should be prepared to possibly do some rework and modifications involving size 0603 surface mount components. Before you purchase, please make sure you understand what to expect with a Hermes-Lite 2.0. You can find information and ask questions on our Google Group, read and contribute to our wiki, and find the latest links on the main Hermes-Lite web page.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[Heikki Ahola]

Steve,

Just to make sure, am I still among the 15 remaining enthusiasts in the HL2 waiting list waiting for the next build  or do I have to apply again ?

73 de Heikki

[Steve Haynal]

Hi All,

The Hermes-Lite 2.0 build 7 group buy has closed. 22 units for this group buy have been claimed and I've stopped sending out invitations. I am keeping 3 units as backups but will sell those later once any potential problems have been resolved. Elecrow is already fabricating the PCBs and ordering parts. I will order the ADC, FPGAs and through hole parts this weekend. I anticipate 2 to 3 weeks until I receive the boards from Elecrow, and then another 2 or 3 weeks for Zelpro to install the ADC and FPGA and finally 2 weeks for me to test and ship. Hopefully everyone will receive their unit by the end of August. I'm not very good a predicting these schedules, so be prepared for some possible variation.

I sent out invitations to 36 people. 6 passed on this invitation but asked to remain on the list. 8 never responded. 22 purchased. 4 people on the list never received an invitation, including you Heikki, but you have one unit already. Once the dust settles, some of these 4 people will receive an invitation to buy a backup unit. If I had been thinking ahead, I should have increased the quantity to 30 so that everyone on the list could receive an invitation and I would have a few remaining units for future buyers, but Elecrow had already started and committed to 25 units. For future group buys, we will have to find at least another 25 people as 25 is where the first price breaks occur. Maybe in November or December 2018.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[aru...@acronym.co.uk]

Steve

Please add me to the list for the next group buy

--

  Andy, g8hck

On Friday, 29 June 2018 18:07:37 UTC+1, Steve Haynal wrote:

Hi All,

The Hermes-Lite 2.0 build 7 group buy has closed. 22 units for this group buy have been claimed ...

 

[Heikki Ahola]

Steve, 

Tks for the info ! Looking forward to the invitation, sooner or later, no problem !

73 de Heikki (OH2LZI)

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

Just to keep the group informed, here is the latest Build7 update I sent to all participants.

Hello,

I received an update from Elecrow. They have fabricated the PCBs and are waiting for some parts. There are some capacitors and inductors that are marked do not substitute so it can take some time to order the exact parts. They expect all parts in next week and said they may ship to me at the end of next week.

I ordered 10 partially assembled N2ADR E5 boards as a test. Including shipping, assembly, PCB and parts, it works out to $35-$38 per board. The additional through hole parts, mainly relays, cost $15 to $20 more. Once I receive the units and kit one board to know the final weight an dprice, I will order more units and offer these as an add on to those who purchased build7 plus standalone to others.

You can find the E5 release on github:

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/tree/master/hardware/companions/releases/n2adr_e5

I have investigated including the recommended enclosure but the weight and size make it costly to order from China and then ship to buyers. I did order this unit:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Project-Aluminium-Enclosure-Box-for-Electronic-Instrument-150-106-55-mm-/253190179267

and it arrived safely. It is not raw aluminum and may require a little sanding of the PCB slot for best heat transfer, but it is a great deal at under $10 including shipping. I can't buy these enclosures and ship for less than $20. 

In the future, we may have front and back panels for this enclosure available. Those are light weight and flat and can be shipped easily and inexpensively.

73,

Steve

KF7O

[m1b...@btinternet.com]

Hi Steve.

Thank you for the update on the build 7.

Plus the recent posts about the E5 add on.

I can now see a plan coming together for me.

Now just got to form a plan for adding a 140 watt external PA.

I will have to have words with Graeme ZL2APV as he has a few good ideas on his Github account.

.

73 Peter M1BCV

[Graeme Jury]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the updates. The HL2's are getting closer and the anticipation is growing. I bought exactly the enclosure you are describing and it was shipped promptly and again less than NZ$10 which is an excellent deal. I agree that the anodising may need a bit of a sand near the finals and very interested to hear of the end plates.

I appreciate all the time and effort going into this project from you and the others.

73, Graeme ZL2APV