We need backup !

[David Elahee]

Hi guys,

As Nicolas said in his post, we really need all the strength we can, especially in promotion.But that being said eveyone of you can help promoting Haxe and find the waited CEO. There is no promotionnal team, its just really you that help spread the love.

So please if you have a little spare time, can you help us by either hinting us as where to send news or even handle some post yourself !

https://github.com/HaxeFoundation/Project-Management/issues/45#issuecomment-159325136

We need you <3

Thanks a lot, make some noise and long live Haxe !

--

David Elahee

[clemos]

Hi David,

While I saw the announcement, I think the first thing to do would be to clarify the application process.

Where / who should the applicant contact ?

What info is expected from the applicant (resume? HF action plan?)

What would be his objectives (are these quantified) ?

Also how / by whom will he be chosen / named / elected ? 

How long is the CEO mandate ? Is it unlimited ? 

I think it's a great move to try and name someone in charge of developing the HF business,

but IMHO the HF (with us?) should at least answer these questions beforehand.

Nicolas mentionned he already had names in mind.

I would be interested in to know who, among others to have a idea of the kind of profile he thinks would fit.

More generally, will a list of applicant become public eventually ?

Best,

Clément

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[clemos]

PS: 

same goes for the advisory board, which btw would probably need some publicity too ;)

[Justin L Mills]

Haxe needs someone famous and respected in computer circles as CEO, perhaps a creator of another language who is now famous and followed.

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240103681/IT-greats-Top-10-greatest-IT-people
http://www.computersciencedegreehub.com/30-most-influential-computer-scientists-alive-today/
... google some more ...

What are Linus Torval and Bill Gates doing these days? It's not about people you specifically like or even agree with, but people who are followed and respected enough for Haxe to be on the list of tech to be evaluated, currently it often fails to get on the list to be evaluated by larger companies, Haxe seriously needs more big name endorsement to break into the computer mainstream world and be considered along side other opensource languages used frequently.  It's a shame it seems to work like this but having talked to many companies about Haxe it seems computing can be sometimes as fickle as any industry just like say the music industry.

Perhaps we could draw up a list of people that we feel would like Haxe and should be blogging about Haxe and specifically write to them to ask for public support in the quest to increase Haxe's profile, and atleast ask them to mention the CEO position on thier blog/twitter.

[David Elahee]

Personnaly I have the same level of information. So I agree with @clemos , I hope Nicolas will answer those questions. I was just fairly concerned that NC's post had really low impact in mediums.

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[Daniel Glazman]

On 26/11/2015 12:08, Justin L Mills wrote:

> Haxe needs someone famous and respected in computer circles as CEO,
> perhaps a creator of another language who is now famous and followed.
>
> http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240103681/IT-greats-Top-10-greatest-IT-people
> http://www.computersciencedegreehub.com/30-most-influential-computer-scientists-alive-today/
> ... google some more ...
>
> What are Linus Torval and Bill Gates doing these days? It's not about

Wow. Wow. Wow. (Steve Jobs' famous last words)

</Daniel>

[Justin L Mills]

Well if you consider that Haxe has potential to be bigger than Ruby or
Python for instance, but only if it gets the exposure it deserves, so I
don't see why someone like the inventor of javascript or similar would
not be interested in making that difference if they were to try Haxe and
fall in love with the language like many of here have. I really feel
that we need a CEO that can bring that sort of level of computing
interest to Haxe.

The alternative is someone from within the communtity that has been here
awhile with lots of passion, coding skill, with good promotional skills
like for instance maybe a collaboration of Joshua Granick and Sven
Bergstrom, I think Haxe can be used for lots of things, but the Mobile
app crosstarget angle seems a pretty good one and these two guys seem to
be well placed to push that angle, but they are pretty involved in
creating and promoting Haxe solutions already. Or maybe Franco would be
good now that he is not working on the compiler and creating some great
user libraries, but I do quite like the idea of choosing a CEO pair to
cover more than one aspect or front of Haxe use.

[Guilherme Medeiros]

You guys dont know me, but I`d like to add my thoughts.

As I see, Haxe is really strong as an alternative for writting C++.

Everybody wants to create a project that run fast, like C++, but no one wants to program in C++.

As a Python developer, I have the mindset to always code in Python. Later on, on code bottlenecks, rewrite that part as a C module and use it from my Python code.

Also, keep in mind that its really hard to make people leave their loved programming language.

With that thought I think we, as community, should try to introduce Haxe to other developers as a fallback language.

Offer an easier language that can perform like Cpp, so when their main language cant to the magic.

PHP people created a language (Zephir) just because they didnt want to program PHP modules in C.

Python people write modules in C.

Java people write modules in C.

Ruby people write modules in C.

JScript people write modules in c.

et cetera.

So, why not write modules in Haxe?

[Justin L Mills]

On 26/11/2015 14:39, Guilherme Medeiros wrote:
> You guys dont know me, but I`d like to add my thoughts.
>
> As I see, Haxe is really strong as an alternative for writting C++.
> Everybody wants to create a project that run fast, like C++, but no
> one wants to program in C++.
> As a Python developer, I have the mindset to always code in Python.
> Later on, on code bottlenecks, rewrite that part as a C module and use
> it from my Python code.
> Also, keep in mind that its really hard to make people leave their
> loved programming language.
>
> With that thought I think we, as community, should try to introduce
> Haxe to other developers as a fallback language.
> Offer an easier language that can perform like Cpp, so when their main
> language cant to the magic.
>
> PHP people created a language (Zephir) just because they didnt want to
> program PHP modules in C.
> Python people write modules in C.
> Java people write modules in C.
> Ruby people write modules in C.
> JScript people write modules in c.
>
> et cetera.
>
> So, why not write modules in Haxe?
>

Guilherme it would be great if you decide to create a tutorial on this
approach, even if just from a Python perspective I would be really
interested especially any examples with visual code.

But I think that for Haxe to succeed really well it can be used as you
say, but it needs to gainusers that find Haxe to be a favoriate language
which is not hard they just need to give it a proper try, and companies
that see Haxe as the flexible solution to use.

[Daniel Glazman]

On 26/11/2015 15:27, Justin L Mills wrote:

> Well if you consider that Haxe has potential to be bigger than Ruby or
> Python for instance, but only if it gets the exposure it deserves, so I
> don't see why someone like the inventor of javascript or similar would

Oh wait, you were serious in your original message, you're were not
kidding?

Oh, ah, ahem. I see. Ahem.
Ok. Let me clarify a few things then:

1. Brendan just launched a new company, https://www.brave.com/
2. Brendan is not the kind of guy who leads a project he did not
start himself
3. he was CTO and then CEO of Mozilla, do you really feel CEO of the
Haxe Foundation would be let's say a plus on his resume?

</Daniel>

[Juraj Kirchheim]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Daniel Glazman <daniel....@gmail.com> wrote:

On 26/11/2015 15:27, Justin L Mills wrote:

> Well if you consider that Haxe has potential to be bigger than Ruby or
> Python for instance, but only if it gets the exposure it deserves, so I
> don't see why someone like the inventor of javascript or similar would

Oh wait, you were serious in your original message, you're were not
kidding?

Oh, ah, ahem. I see. Ahem.

Boooring.

 

Ok. Let me clarify a few things then:

1. Brendan just launched a new company, https://www.brave.com/
2. Brendan is not the kind of guy who leads a project he did not
   start himself
3. he was CTO and then CEO of Mozilla, do you really feel CEO of the
   Haxe Foundation would be let's say a plus on his resume?

Ok, he's a person who 1. thinks 90s webdesign is cool way to present your new company 2. cannot be made to care about ideas other than his own and 3. made it his life's goal to put impressive pluses on his resume. Thank you for your clarification, we now know for sure that he's not the right guy for us. A quick glance at the mess that JavaScript is, would already leave one with that suspicion, but it's always good to have confirmation. Now that you have so graciously shared your intimate knowledge about him, how do you feel about trying to be constructive for a change and proposing public figures that it would make sense to approach instead? Thanks again.

Best,

Juraj

[Daniel Glazman]

On 26/11/2015 18:01, Juraj Kirchheim wrote:

> Ok, he's a person who 1. thinks 90s webdesign is cool way to present
> your new company 2. cannot be made to care about ideas other than his
> own and 3. made it his life's goal to put impressive pluses on his
> resume. Thank you for your clarification, we now know for sure that he's
> not the right guy for us. A quick glance at the mess that JavaScript is,
> would already leave one with that suspicion, but it's always good to
> have confirmation.

Oh my goodness.
The day you create multiple technologies that hit and transform the
whole world LIKE HE DID, that day you'll be allowed to make fun of him.
Until then, my bullet points were mine, strictly mine, and you are here
attacking Brendan ad-hominem. I suggest you stop immediately.

> Now that you have so graciously shared your intimate
> knowledge about him, how do you feel about trying to be constructive for
> a change and proposing public figures that it would make sense to
> approach instead? Thanks again.

What?!?

Listen Juraj, we had someone claiming the HF should attract super
mega-high profile people, and that person mentioned Gates and Torvalds.
I thought it was humour. It wasn't. If you can't see why such profiles
are totally out of touch for us, that's your problem and not mine.

As a matter of fact, I should share a dinner with Brendan in just a few
days from now. Because I'm not a coward, I will mention Justin's idea
at my personal reputation's expense; Brendan is an old friend from my
Netscape days.
In my humble opinion, don't expect more than a large smile as reply.

</Daniel>

[David Mouton]

What about you Daniel ?

You are famous and respected in the computer circle, you love Haxe and made some great librairies.

[Justo Delgado]

There guys, perfect... Can't this community show some respect between its users? C'mon... Not only direct attacks but attacks to third persons that can't answer back... Ugh, seriously, you guys will give a really good impression to the future CEO if anyone wants to deal with all this bs :/

Sorry for the off topic but this isn't the first time this happens... I understand that people have different opinions but using them to attack other people publicly... If you guys want to throw shit at each other get a room or something

[Daniel Glazman]

On 26/11/2015 18:26, David Mouton wrote:

> What about you Daniel ?
>
> You are famous and respected in the computer circle, you love Haxe and
> made some great librairies.

Me? Er.... I'm not Bill Gates and I'm not Torvalds, you know?-)
Yes, I love Haxe but my "great libraries" are nothing compared to
what some of you have released. I'm still a newcomer to Haxe.

But more importantly, Nicolas's article is not enough for anyone, in
my humble opinion, to have a perspective on the role. Hiring a CEO
is one thing, but what's the business model? And what is the structure's
model? A CEO is the Executive lead, and that means being the lone
decider on what to do and how to do it. The CEO can be fired if the
Board disagrees with what he does, but until then, he's the master
onboard. Any candidate CEO will also request a shareholder's pact to
make sure the revenues from the HF stay in the HF for investments.
I'm sure Nicolas has more details and he's right not sharing them with
us.
So I guess everything is in Nicolas's hands and we should let him handle
that quietly. It's not an easy nor a simple task.

</Daniel>

[Justin L Mills]

On 26/11/2015 17:17, Daniel Glazman wrote:
>
> As a matter of fact, I should share a dinner with Brendan in just a few
> days from now. Because I'm not a coward, I will mention Justin's idea
> at my personal reputation's expense; Brendan is an old friend from my
> Netscape days.
> In my humble opinion, don't expect more than a large smile as reply.
>
> </Daniel>
>

That's good Daniel, sometimes it only takes one conversation. If he has
not tried Haxe yet then he is probably in for a treat and he will thank
you later.

I suggest you link him to the comparisom of Haxe and TypeScript by Andy
Li ( or memorise it ) since it seemed to be a good starter ( although
there are many ), the first in some links and summaries I created for a
friend interested in haxe js, which ended up in sceptical friend
deciding to take a closer look at Haxe after all, even though in
previous years he had not been interested when I had mentioned it. But
I guess it could have been something else.

[Daniel Glazman]

On 26/11/2015 18:47, Daniel Glazman wrote:

> But more importantly, Nicolas's article is not enough for anyone, in
> my humble opinion, to have a perspective on the role. Hiring a CEO
> is one thing, but what's the business model? And what is the structure's
> model? A CEO is the Executive lead, and that means being the lone
> decider on what to do and how to do it. The CEO can be fired if the
> Board disagrees with what he does, but until then, he's the master
> onboard. Any candidate CEO will also request a shareholder's pact to
> make sure the revenues from the HF stay in the HF for investments.
> I'm sure Nicolas has more details and he's right not sharing them with
> us.
> So I guess everything is in Nicolas's hands and we should let him handle
> that quietly. It's not an easy nor a simple task.

Let me add one rather important thing: the HF is currently a corporation
under the French law, some equivalent to LLC. It's not legally
structured to have a Board with a Chairman and a CEO and it has a
unique shareholder. So where does the "CEO" stand and how?

</Daniel>

[Benjamin Dasnois]

Yes that's exactly what I was thinking. At the moment this is all non-sense.

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

> Yes that's exactly what I was thinking. At the moment this is all non-sense.

I don't think so. We're so used to redtape and paperwork that forget what pragmatism is. The entity can be changed at any time later, the CEO can start as functioning as a CEO, even if on paper he's not a CEO yet. Anyone that refuses to do so because the entity doesn't formally allows a CEO (i.e not a corporation) shouldn't be a CEO anyway.

I agree that eventually it should be changed to a corp, though.

One of the values of entrepreneurship is that, being pragmatic. This shouldn't be a blockage at this point.

[Phillip Chertok]

I would hope that any incoming CEO would make sure the organization is classified under French (and any relevant jurisdictions) in the most appropriate way that would further the platform/foundation.

[Benjamin Dasnois]

Sorry you missed my point but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

At first I want to say that no, we're not too used to red tape. Actually, try doing anything in France without respecting the red tape and you'll potentially end up in trouble.

The lack of publicity around Haxe and the lack of information that should have been given by Nicolas makes it all sound like non-sense to anyone.

This role would need to be a full-time role to be helpful, yet no information on the expected income are given. Absolutely nothing. I'm not just talking about the salary but anyone who has seen Nicolas' talk at the latest WWX, which I guess anyone interested in the position would have, knows the HF barely spent half an engineer's annual salary in one year on development. How can one take such a risk as leaving a position to be put at risk like that?

No information are given on the eventual stakeholders and what kind of contract (even if only moral) may have been made.

The only info being given is that Nicolas somehow acknowledges the HF has failed so far and that the CEO would be an employee. All the rest is the usual BS (yes a CEO's role is to coordinate and blahblah… anyone who doesn't know that clearly does not stand a chance of success).

Regards,

--

DASNOIS Benjamin
http://www.benjamindasnois.com

[clemos]

I believe this is called a co-founder rather than a CEO ;)

[Benjamin Dasnois]

Miss a "+1" button on-here but I agree with Clemos! ;)

DASNOIS Benjamin
http://www.benjamindasnois.com

[Andy Li]

I just want to ask if anyone knows about the Linux Foundation Collaborative Projects? From its brochure, it says:

Hosting your project with The Linux Foundation provides the financial, operational, promotional,
technical and managerial support and services needed so that your staff can focus on your
project’s technical development.

Does it sound perfect to the Haxe Foundation?

I haven't read the details yet, but it seems the Linux Foundation is providing this kind of support, which people refer to as "foundation as a service".

If I understand correctly, if the Haxe Foundation participate in it, the Haxe Foundation would still be independent (it is not under the Linux Foundation), but the Linux Foundation would help us to setup and maintain our organization properly.

Best regards,

Andy

[David Elahee]

Ok I asked for "help to spread love" and end up with yet another toxic thread... At some point I thought I would invoke Nyarlatotep but I am too old for this.

Guys, if you have positive critics it's _cool_ even if it is an unfait derail of my thread but calling names or bs upon others is just childish...

David Elahee

[Daniel Glazman]

On 26/11/2015 21:02, David Elahee wrote:

> Ok I asked for "help to spread love" and end up with yet another toxic
> thread... At some point I thought I would invoke Nyarlatotep but I am
> too old for this.
> Guys, if you have positive critics it's _cool_ even if it is an unfait
> derail of my thread but calling names or bs upon others is just childish...

As I said earlier, we should let Nicolas work this out w/o saying it's
nonsensical. It's _not_ nonsensical. However, that would be good if he
could give us details about the worries we expressed here.
I'd like to say Nicolas took something I see as a good decision and he
listed some reasons in his article that are not that easy to
acknowledge, so kudos. It's also not an easy step to let decisions be
made by someone else. It's not simple either to start a hiring process,
in particular in such context.

Again, we should let him work quietly on that.

</Daniel>

[Nicolas Cannasse]

Le 26/11/2015 11:40, clemos a écrit :
> Hi David,
>
> While I saw the announcement, I think the first thing to do would be to
> clarify the application process.

I was away yesterday, sorry for the late answer.

> Where / who should the applicant contact ?

It's clearly stated in the post that I'm the contact:
"If you are or you know someone that might be interested in taking the
job, make sure (s)he contacts me at nicolas _at_ haxe.org."

> What info is expected from the applicant (resume? HF action plan?)

You don't hire a CEO like you would do for a developer or another task.
It's important to feel confidant that he/she's up to the task,
interested and motivated by Haxe, want to learn and still have ideas on
his own. A resume is of course a first way to get to know each other.

> What would be his objectives (are these quantified) ?

I have listed several of them in the post:

"The role of the CEO will be to help us establish and execute a strategy
to develop Haxe further, to define priories, assign tasks, coordinate
people and make sure things are getting done in due time. The CEO will
also seek new partners for Haxe Foundation in order to enhance our
financial capacities and will also be in direct contact with Haxe
community and stakeholders to explain, discuss and improve the strategy"

I didn't want to enter too much into details, because if I make a list
of things the CEO should do then it means I become the CEO and he no
longer have any room for decision.

> Also how / by whom will he be chosen / named / elected ?

I would be very happy if we have several candidates to choose between
which all are perfect fit for the job, in which case I will get advice
from advisory board (we have already several applicants for it) to
choose between them.

But most likely it will already take some time until we find one right
candidate.

> How long is the CEO mandate ? Is it unlimited ?

That's more a question of work contract, to be discussed with the CEO
candidate depending on his wished.

> I think it's a great move to try and name someone in charge of
> developing the HF business,
> but IMHO the HF (with us?) should at least answer these questions
> beforehand.
>
> Nicolas mentionned he already had names in mind.
> I would be interested in to know who, among others to have a idea of the
> kind of profile he thinks would fit.
> More generally, will a list of applicant become public eventually ?

I have met with ex-CTO of medium companies, I went also to FrenchTech
startup meetings to perform some networking, I'm also getting help from
people I know in Bordeaux.

The profile I'm looking for is someone that can both understand what
Haxe is (not necessary a developer, but a good tech background) and have
the capacity to help us make it grow (good management and communication
skills, can help us defining and implementing a strategy).

I don't think I will be able to make the list of applicants public,
because it's both not very nice for people that were rejected and could
cause them problems in case they already have a job.

Best,
Nicolas

[Nicolas Cannasse]

All these things your listed will be discussed with candidates, we have
some money, enough to pay a good salary for some time, we can get more
if we make more efforts in bizdev.

And no you don't recruit a CEO by saying how much money he could make,
it's all about the Haxe project, which I think I made a clear
description of where we are in my post.

PS: please refrain from using keywords such as "nonsense" or "BS", they
are offending

NC

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> http://www.benjamindasnois.com
>

[Juraj Kirchheim]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 6:17 PM, Daniel Glazman <daniel....@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

you are here attacking Brendan ad-hominem. I suggest you stop immediately.

I am not attacking Brendan. I don't know him, nor have I ever claimed to. You have dragged his person into this discussion, not me. I made fun of the words that you chose to put in his mouth.

Listen Juraj, we had someone claiming the HF should attract super
mega-high profile people, and that person mentioned Gates and Torvalds.
I thought it was humour. It wasn't.

See, this is exactly my problem: opinions other than your own are a joke to you. I'd like to believe that it was an honest mistake, but it happens so often that it seems like you simply have no respect for this community. That's how I see it and I have already pointed that out twice. Please take it into consideration.

[...]

As a matter of fact, I should share a dinner with Brendan in just a few
days from now. Because I'm not a coward, I will mention Justin's idea
at my personal reputation's expense; Brendan is an old friend from my
Netscape days.
In my humble opinion, don't expect more than a large smile as reply.

I don't get the reputation bit, but whatever. I do want to thank you. I think every genuine attempt counts (after all, Haxe is the product of bold attempts). Please let us know how it goes!

Best,

Juraj

[Daniel Glazman]

On 29/11/2015 23:53, Juraj Kirchheim wrote:

> I am not attacking Brendan. I don't know him, nor have I ever claimed
> to. You have dragged his person into this discussion, not me. I made fun

Not really. Justin did. Read better.

</Daniel>

[Daniel Glazman]

On 26/11/2015 18:17, Daniel Glazman wrote:

> As a matter of fact, I should share a dinner with Brendan in just a few
> days from now. Because I'm not a coward, I will mention Justin's idea
> at my personal reputation's expense; Brendan is an old friend from my
> Netscape days.
> In my humble opinion, don't expect more than a large smile as reply.

As announced, I shared a dinner with Brendan Eich yesterday evening and
brought Justin's proposal. And as expected, I got a large smile in
return with the following answer « please tell them I'm flattered but
I am back in startup business so I have to say no thanks ».

</Daniel>

[David Mouton]

Thank you for your help Daniel.