Request for Fred Hawkins 7-1-2013

[Dave Leeman]

Mr Hawkins. I am requesting as a constituent that you ignore Mr Schiro's request and spend your time on more productive county government tasks. Here's why.

Mr Schiro claims he wants the facts. If this is so, why is he wasting his time posting here? All the facts he claims to want are in the public domain.
A few keystrokes provides you with a map of all the fertilizer plants in Osceola County. Simply type in "Fertilizer producers in Osceola County" to the Google search and the map comes right up. By the way, none of the plants are within 20 miles of Harmony. Is Mr Hawkins risking our safety by not doing Mr Schiro's research for him?

About gas pipelines.
Does Mr Schiro not know that a gas pipeline runs from one end of Harmony to the other? Does Mr Schiro not know that it runs under Schoolhouse Rd right by the school? Does Mr Schiro not know that the pipeline passes a scant 250 yards (approx) from his own house? He needs Mr Hawkins to tell him this information? What's up with that? Maybe he should get out from sitting at his keyboard and take a walk around Harmony once in a while. Then he would see the markers stating GAS PIPELINE.

In a previous post, Mr Schiro writes,
"You are the one person most responsible for our safety and the safety of our
families on this end of Osceola County Fred."

I respond.
Can Mr Schiro possibly be serious? Mr Hawkins is responsible for my safety? Not hardly. Mr Hawkins is responsible for making sure our tax money is managed and spent wisely. Any connection with my safety is purely tangential. I am responsible for my safety and the safety of my family (such as it is). In my opinion, my safety has more to do with whether my tires are inflated properly than anything Mr Hawkins does. Should I ask Mr Hawkins to check them for me? (After, of course, he tells me where the gas pipeline I see every day is located.)

In a previous post Mr Schiro issued a challenge to forum members to come forward. Well here I am. I feel safe and sleep soundly each night. Of course no one can say that they (or their children) are "perfectly safe" in their beds, but that has nothing to do with Mr Hawkins. Anyone can suffer a home invasion. Anyone can be hit by a tornado. Which, by the way, is a much more common occurrence in Central Florida than fertilizer plant or gas pipeline explosions. And, of course, in his so called non-answer, Mr Hawkins provided the name and phone number to contact the county's head of emergency management. So if I have any questions, I can certainly get answers direct from the source, instead of wasting Mr Hawkins time relaying my questions to him.

In a previous post Mr Schiro writes,
"But I doubt the families and friends of the 15 people killed in the fertilizer explosion have much confidence in such trite offhand pronouncements anymore. Neither do we Fred. How long did that take you to come up with? Perhaps 10 seconds of research and analysis?"

To which I respond.
We? "Neither do WE Fred"? Who is this we? Once again Mr Schiro posts his own questions, opinions, and accusations and sneaks in the word we to make it seem like he is part of some group of people who share his views.
This is standard procedure for Mr Schiro. Attempting to make his posts carry more weight by implying that others share his views.

So he doubts the families of the people killed have much confidence, and maybe they don't. (By the way, did he ask those families, or is he just making a guess here?) But to say "neither do we" implies that someone other than Mr Schiro is involved in this conversation and shares his opinion of Mr Hawkins statements. There is no evidence of this at this time. Perhaps Mr Schiro can give us a list of the others who don't have "much confidence" and have asked him to speak for them.

And don't forget that snarky little dig from Mr Schiro, "How long did that take you to come up with? Perhaps 10 seconds of research and analysis?" How ironic. It would have taken Mr Schiro less than 10 seconds to Google the location of the fertilizer producers. So he could have had his information in considerably less time than it took him to post his less than complimentary response to Mr Hawkins.

From here it looks like Mr Schiro is less interested in facts than he is in hammering Mr Hawkins. Mr Schiro does not like Mr Hawkins because he feels that Mr Hawkins is taking the side of his enemy in his years long war against Starwood, the present developer of Harmony. See the previous thread, "So Much for Freedom in Harmony ".

Mr Schiro has a long history of hammering anyone he thinks is on Starwood's side. This is just more of the same.

[Geo]

David Leeman's request to Fred Hawkins can be interpreted at least two ways:

1) As a sincere entreaty to Mr. Hawkins
to spend his "public" time more wisely.

2) As an effort to further protect Dave's (and
Mr. Hawkins') chief benefactor in Harmony.

In Dave's world view I have an agenda. According to Dave, whenever I write
in this forum (or anywhere else) I am out-to-get supporters of the
developer. Naturally, in the same world view Dave has no agenda at all.

Hopefully readers will judge for themselves.

Over the years I have admonished David Leeman to be completely truthful and
forthcoming about his special relationship with Starwood / Harmony
Development Company. He has yet to do this. I have urged him to fully
disclose. IMHO, he should add a byline to each post disclosing his conflict
of interest, especially since he posts only in spurts every few months or so
(and only in response to others, ie. usually me).

New readers to this newsgroup are likely to be mislead believing that David
Leeman is unbiased and agenda free. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Always keep in mind that David Leeman has a singular purpose for attacking
anyone who criticizes Starwood / Harmony Development Company (or its
supporters, especially his wife), one of his chief benefactors in Harmony
(see "Full Disclosure", http://tinyurl.com/7gvcu3j - so far $45,000 and
counting). Dave needs to do whatever he can to protect his free and
exclusive horse privileges in Harmony.

It just so happens that Fred Hawkins' chief benefactor in Harmony is also
Starwood / Harmony Development Company, see:

What kind of people - part 2
http://www.aroundosceola.com/index.php?view=article&id=12607

or http://www.webcitation.org/6BDHFf75Z

or attachment 1.

Fred Hawkins has received thousands of dollars in campaign money from the
developer et al. And don't forget Fred's special privilege to post campaign
signs on developer property - unlike anyone else (except disgraced former
Congressman Mike Horner, another developer beneficiary). Fred's opponent
during this past election (Chad Carnell, a Harmony resident) was barred from
placing his signs anywhere on developer property. Where was David Leeman
when our mutual neighbor needed some defending in public? Nowhere.

While Fred hasn't received anywhere near the developer largess heaped upon
David Leeman and his public official wife, Kerul Kassel, Fred appears to
come in second as a public official in the race for developer dollars in
Harmony.

For all intents and purposes David Leeman (among few others) speaks for and
publicly defends Starwood / Harmony Development Company in this forum. And
since Fred Hawkins is the developer's "go to guy" on the Osceola County
Commission, naturally Dave is also a defender of Fred Hawkins.

The truth of the matter is that Dave has never been much of a defender of
any other elected official I have taken issue with in this forum, except
those with some connection to the developer.

Here are other public officials I have publicly taken to account in this
forum (or elsewhere):

Barbara Horn:

"What Kind of People?"
http://tinyurl.com/kkvtrb6

"What Kind of People?" (or attachment 2)
http://tinyurl.com/q6e2b4h

Cindy Hartig:

"Subtle Little Lies" - Hartig
http://tinyurl.com/m23ju3y

"What Kind of People?"
http://tinyurl.com/kkvtrb6

"What Kind of People?" (or attachment 2)
http://tinyurl.com/q6e2b4h

Hal Epperson:

"Osceola County Judge Candidates"
http://tinyurl.com/ljgftcw

Jay Wheeler:

'What Does "Exam" Mean in Osceola County High Schools?'
http://tinyurl.com/7z8fy4h

"The 'best' for our children?"
http://tinyurl.com/kx6tvce (or attachment 3)

Julius Melendez:

"Subtle Little Lies" - Melendez
http://tinyurl.com/mkh5stn

"What Kind of People?"
http://tinyurl.com/kkvtrb6

"What Kind of People?" (or attachment 2)
http://tinyurl.com/q6e2b4h

Tom Long:

"Request for Tom Long - 2011-06-01"
http://tinyurl.com/7napz2h

"Request for Tom Long - 2011-06-09"
http://tinyurl.com/pdg4vg7

"Subtle Little Lies" - Long
http://tinyurl.com/jvfupqu

"What Kind of People?"
http://tinyurl.com/kkvtrb6

"What Kind of People?" (or attachment 2)
http://tinyurl.com/q6e2b4h

You will notice that not once did David Leeman come out of the woodwork to
defend any of these other folks. Why do you suppose not? (Hint: none of the
others had close ties to the developer).

In particular, the "Request for Tom Long" topics are most similar to my
recent request for Fred Hawkins - the one that Dave now wants Fred so much
to ignore (see "Request for Fred Hawkins - 2013-06-21",
http://tinyurl.com/mcsd3ke ).

Isn't that a bit odd? Do you really think Commissioner Hawkins is really so
busy, especially considering that it took Dave only a few seconds from a
Google search to return a partial answer to the questions posed to Fred?

Here's the bottom line:

None of the public officials listed above was ever questioned publicly about
something that may directly impact the developer's bottom line in Harmony.
Dave apparently felt no need to come to their aid. Perhaps it is David
Leeman's job in this forum to help short-circuit any such discussions.

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[Dave Leeman]

Mr Schiro once again comes through with his standard tactics, change the subject and attack the person. Mr Schiro asks the forum readers to judge for themselves. I also ask the forum readers to judge for themselves.

Did Mr Schiro defend his questions to Mr Hawkins? Not really. The closest he came was to write that since it only took me a short time to find out something, Mr Hawkins should have gone ahead and spent that time himself and told Mr Schiro information that was already public knowledge. By that logic if I ask Mr Hawkins the latitude and longitude of Harmony, he should go ahead and look it up since it will only take him a few seconds. Since Mr Schiro has declined to back up his previous post, that leaves me alone on the field, victorious. Mr Hawkins should not answer frivolous questions about things that are public knowledge. Mr Hawkins is not responsible for anyone's safety. And since Mr Schiro refused to provide any evidence that anyone other than himself shares his views, and in fact refused to even address the "WE" issue, forum readers must assume that there are no such persons. Yes forum readers, judge for yourselves. Mr Schiro's post comes down to one thing and one thing only. In his opinion, no one should listen to me, not because my words aren't true, but because my motives are less than upright. This is just another one of his attacks that he uses as misdirection from the fact that I point out the falsehoods in his posts. Among his previous attempts to get people to not listen to me were, that I don't have a job, that I don't have a life, and that I have unlimited time to post. All having nothing to do with whether his words or my own are true. So now he says (again) that I am a developer stooge, so don't listen to me. Well forum readers, once again I ask you to judge for yourselves. Does the fact that I keep my horses on developer land mean that Mr Hawkins should answer Mr Schiro's requests? Does the fact that I keep my horses on developer land mean that Mr Hawkins is responsible for Mr Schiro's safety? Does the fact that I keep my horses on developer land mean that others share Mr Schiro's dim view of Mr Hawkins responses?
Feel free to chime in forum readers.

Now let's move to what Mr Schiro actually wrote this time. Mr Schiro's posts are frequently filled with untruths and outright lies. This one is no exception. Let's start from the beginning.

Mr Schiro writes,

"In Dave's world view I have an agenda. According to Dave, whenever I write
in this forum (or anywhere else) I am out-to-get supporters of the
developer. Naturally, in the same world view Dave has no agenda at all."

and also,

"New readers to this newsgroup are likely to be mislead believing that David
Leeman is unbiased and agenda free."

To which I respond,
First off, I never said, wrote, stated, or intimated that "whenever [Mr Schiro] write[s] in this forum (or anywhere else) [he is] out-to-get supporters of the developer." This is false. If you read my post I wrote, "Mr Schiro has long history of hammering anyone he thinks is on Starwood's side." Just because he has a long history of something does NOT mean it is "whenever he writes". Mr Schiro's statement is false.

Second. I never said, and no one would ever believe, that I don't have an agenda. Mr Schiro is spouting nonsense. Everyone has an agenda. My agenda is two-fold. To defend my, as Mr Schiro puts it, "Public Official Wife" from his defamation and lies, and to refute Mr Schiro's falsehoods about Harmony and the people and events therein. (Sometimes those two missions overlap.) I have NEVER hidden my agenda. Nor have I tried to convince others that I don't have one. New readers will not be misled. I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, "unbiased and agenda free." I am extremely biased against Mr Schiro and his falsehoods, and will again say that it is my agenda to refute them. Does Mr Schiro NOT have an agenda? Don't make me laugh! Mr Schiro has been waging a war against Starwood from the day they got here. Does that mean that every time he posts he is "out to get supporters of the developer"? No. Sometimes he has other targets. But keep in mind that, in Mr Schiro's mind, there are only two kinds of people in Harmony. Those who agree with him, and those who support Starwood. So anyone who, like me, disagrees with Mr Schiro and his version of events in Harmony is automatically on the side of evil (oops, I mean Starwood).

Mr Schiro follows that with his go to lie. He writes,

"Over the years I have admonished David Leeman to be completely truthful and forthcoming about his special relationship with Starwood / Harmony
Development Company. He has yet to do this."

Who is trying to mislead new readers? This is one of the biggest lies Mr Schiro tells, and he repeats it over and over in the hopes that it will somehow become true.

In my post from 3-12-2012, I respond to one of his previous attempts to promulgate this lie. Here are my words from that post, explaining my "special relationship with Starwood / Harmony Development Company".

In that post I wrote,
"I posted about the meeting and the deal with Bob Evans in March of
2006.
Here is the url for that post:
http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/browse_frm/thread/12401b6c1be094f1#

Mr Schiro's statement that I refuse "to do the same after all these
years" is totally false. Not only did I post in March 2006, but in
Nov 2008.
Here is the url for that post:
http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/2f047a9ccf447cde?

So if I posted more than once specifically about the meeting and deal
with Bob Evans, ... how is it not “disclosed”? Do I need to
take out an ad in the Sentinel?
In Mr Schiro’s own words, posted in his “What constitutes secrecy”
thread he wrote,
“When I write that the Harmony Horse Amenity was a secret, I meant
that is was a secret to the general public at large. It was a secret
until it was written about in this public forum.”
So, since it was written about in March 2006, “in this public forum”,
as well as several times since then, it obviously was disclosed.

And later from the same post,
"I have said all along that the fact is that we keep horses here in Harmony and others are not allowed to. That is the deal. I have told people from day one. I have posted the details right here "in this public forum" more than once."
End of previous post.

Back to the present.
So Mr Schiro's statement that I have yet to be "completely truthful and forthcoming" about the horse deal is a lie. It was a lie the first time he wrote it, it was a lie every time he wrote it since then, and it is a lie now.

Mr Schiro next trots out a list of people he has "publicly taken to account in this forum (or elsewhere)". This is more of his change the subject, attack the person tactics. These people have zip to do with whether Mr Hawkins should look up public knowledge for Mr Schiro, or whether Mr Hawkins (as Mr Schiro claims) is responsible for our safety. So why didn't I defend these people? Because, as Mr Schiro claims, they are not Starwood associates? Hah! Don't make me laugh. Either Mr Schiro has no memory, or he thinks forum readers don't. Does Mr Schiro not remember my posts? You will notice that most of the people Mr Schiro lists are either current or former School Board members. He "took them to account" over the superintendent selection process. Why didn't I defend them? Because I agreed with Mr Schiro! The whole selection committee was just for show. They had already chosen their own guy and were just going through the motions. My only disagreement with Mr Schiro was that he did not see this from the beginning and actually thought there would be an open and transparent process to select the best candidate. Of course I "felt no need to come to their aid".

Her are a couple of my posts from that time.

"George, you're tilting at windmills. The system is rigged against you. The selection process you are involved in is not supposed to BE open and accountable, it is only supposed to give the appearance of being open and accountable."

"George, you're missing the point. Any questions I might have would be
totally useless, as the system is designed to get a new supe who knows
the system and is willing to work within it. Remember the quote from
my previous post. "Non conformers are driven out". Any and all
candidates for the supe job are vetted because they all rise through
the giant school bureaucracy the same way. By conforming to
acceptable doctrine. No one who is nominated will do anything
different because anyone who will do things differently will not be
nominated."
End of quoted post.

Back to the present.
What Mr Schiro doesn't know is that one of the board members phoned me under the notion that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That person tried to get my assistance in countering Mr Schiro's efforts to bring the selection process to light. (I am after all, the anti-George.) Boy were they surprised to find out that I thought the whole selection process was a dog an pony show. So that's one reason why I didn't defend them. The other reason is that I am against government schools in principle. So I don't get involved in school board or any other public school issues. It has nothing to do with their affinity or lack thereof, or association with or lack thereof, Starwood/Harmony Development.

Same thing for the judge candidates. The only thing I knew about any of the candidates is that the Dunlops live down the street from me and have cute little dogs. And besides, Mr Schiro praised 3 out the 4 candidates! Why would they need defending if Mr Schiro liked them?

So where's the beef? None of these people on Mr Schiro's list have anything to do with my agenda of refuting Mr Schiro's untruths. It is just a lame attempt by Mr Schiro at misdirection since he cannot defend his previous post.

Mr Schiro finishes up with,

"Here's the bottom line:

None of the public officials listed above was ever questioned publicly about
something that may directly impact the developer's bottom line in Harmony.
Dave apparently felt no need to come to their aid. Perhaps it is David
Leeman's job in this forum to help short-circuit any such discussions."

Really? Schools in Osceola County don't effect Starwood's bottom line? The quality of schools in Osceola is large in the mind of anyone with children who are considering moving here. IMO much larger than where the fertilizer plants are. And Mr Schiro proves that he doesn't care about gas pipelines since there's one running from end to end in Harmony and he moved here anyway. So that doesn't effect Starwood's bottom line either. So the idea that his questions to Mr Hawkins had anything to do with Strwood's bottom line is laughable. No one in Harmony is feeling unsafe. In fact, people move here BECAUSE it's safe.

Mr Schiro wrote in a previous thread,
"Once again Starwood / Harmony Development Company has abridged the freedoms of Harmony's citizens. They have again shamelessly hosted a public meeting in Harmony that some citizens were excluded from. For all we know, dozens of people in Harmony may have been prevented from attending last night's meeting with Osceola County Commissioner Fred Hawkins while apparently only "friends of the developer" were allowed in."

Mr Schiro is not allowed on Starwood property due to his years long war with them. (Whether that is fair or not is not for me to say, but in a war, both sides try to hurt each other.) The above mentioned meeting was held on Starwood property, so Mr Schiro was excluded. He sought relief from Mr Hawkins and was unable to obtain it.
Are we to believe it's just a coincidence that Mr Schiro posts right after that with his nonsense about Mr Hawkins being responsible for our safety and being a bad public official for not answering Mr Schiro's questions? Are we to believe that Mr Schiro has no agenda? As Mr Schiro writes, forum members should judge for themselves.

And don't forget that Mr Schiro writes,
"For all we know, dozens of people in Harmony may have been prevented from attending last night's meeting".
This just like his other post where he writes
"Neither do we Fred"
As if anyone shares his views.
Does Mr Schiro provide any evidence of anyone other than himself who was excluded? I can just as truthfully say that "for all we know, no one but Mr Schiro was excluded." Mr Schiro attempts to add weight to his posts by implying that others are involved in his plight. Once again, there is no evidence of anyone sharing Mr Schiro's views or circumstances.

So the bottom line is not my motives for posting against Mr Schiro. They have zip to do with my horse deal. The bottom line is that this is just another skirmish in Mr Schiro's war with Starwood. He lost the meeting battle so he hit back at someone (Fred Hawkins) he considers a minion (or least an associate) of Starwood. When I refuted his notions and called him out on his hit piece, he then attacked me, since I am (in his mind) with Starwood.

So here's my post about whether I am or am not a defender of Starwood.
Here's the url

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!searchin/harmonyfl/Some$20defender/harmonyfl/AhubI7ChzlA/9SvQ_wLdlEoJ

My words from that post

"As a matter of fact, the evidence is to the contrary. Looking at the record of posts in this group, you will see that in 2006, I only posted 2 times. Mr Schiro posted 72 times. Among his threads were such titles as

Harmony Development Statements That Constitute Broken Promises

Grade of F: Harmony Missing Amenities Progress Report Card as of March
17, 2006

New Starwood Disclaimer - "Don't Believe a Word We Say"

Great Education? - Now The Bad News

Outstanding Charter School? - One Last Slap in the Face

How about 2007?
I posted a grand total of 0 times. That’s right, none. Mr Schiro
posted 22 times.

So in the first two years, while Mr Schiro was hammering the developer
repeatedly, I posted twice. One of those posts was about the horse
deal that I supposedly have never disclosed to this day. The other
did not defend the developer in any way. Does that sound like a
defender of the developer to you?
So when did I start posting on a regular basis? 2008. What a coincidence! The year I start posting is the same year that my wife runs for the CDD board and gets vilified by Mr Schiro. I ask you forum members, what do you think is my motivation for posting?"

And also this.
"Mr Schiro has posted about my wife that she is different from other residents, and hid it from them to sell them out. Mr Schiro posted that she lives the life of leisure, and wants to profit from future residents while not being concerned with “people who live here today”. Mr Schiro posted that she “used legal maneuverings worthy of the sleaziest of tobacco attorneys to suppress public documents.” All blatantly false. Isn’t this enough? Do I need any more motivation than this?"
End of quoted post.

Back to the present.
So forum readers, I ask you once again. What do you think is my motivation for posting? Is Mr Schiro right, and I'm protecting my horse deal? Or am I being truthful and posting because he publicly libeled my wife and my agenda is to thwart his insidious lies?

[George Schiro]

You are still one funny and dedicated Starwood lackey Dave!

'Geo (see "Full Disclosure", http://tinyurl.com/838w636 )
Dave (see "Full Disclosure", http://tinyurl.com/7gvcu3j
- Jul 2013 - $45,000 and counting - so far!
and "Look Who's Labeling Liars", http://tinyurl.com/ay9jxe8 )

-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com]On
Behalf Of Dave Leeman

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