Harbour web site is know as malware

[Massimo Belgrano]

Harbour web site is know as malware from google chrome

Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me

and i confirm problem

http://www.harbour-project.org/ contain malware and your computer maj get a virus

--
Massimo Belgrano

Delta Informatica S.r.l. (http://www.deltain.it/) (+39 0321 455962)
Analisi e sviluppo software per Lan e Web -  Consulenza informatica - Formazione

[oleksa]

From mozilla firefox too

пїЅ
Regards
Alexey Myronenko

--- пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ ---
ВіпїЅ пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: "Massimo Belgrano" <mbel...@deltain.it>
пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: "Harbour Project Main Developer List." <harbou...@googlegroups.com>
пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: 23 пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ 2012, 21:49:31
пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: [harbour] Harbour web site is know as malware

Harbour web site is know as malware from google chrome

Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me

and i confirm problem

http://www.harbour-project.org/пїЅcontain malware and your computer maj get a virus

--
Massimo Belgrano

Delta Informatica S.r.l. (http://www.deltain.it/) (+39 0321 455962)

Analisi e sviluppo software per Lan e Web -пїЅ Consulenza informatica - Formazione

[oleksa]

пїЅ From mozilla firefox too




regards,
Alexey Myronenko

--- пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ ---
ВіпїЅ пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: "Massimo Belgrano" <mbel...@deltain.it>
пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: "Harbour Project Main Developer List." <harbou...@googlegroups.com>
пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: 23 пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ 2012, 21:49:31

пїЅпїЅпїЅпїЅ: [harbour] Harbour web site is know as malware

Harbour web site is know as malware from google chrome

Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me

and i confirm problem

http://www.harbour-project.org/пїЅcontain malware and your computer maj get a virus

--
Massimo Belgrano

Delta Informatica S.r.l. (http://www.deltain.it/) (+39 0321 455962)

[Bacco]

IMHO It would be good if you post images as attachments and not inline
in the mail body.

Regards,
Bacco

[Guillermo Varona Silupú]

En Firefox tambien:


BestRegards
GVS

[Roberto Lopez]

On Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:48:57 PM UTC-3, Massimo Belgrano wrote:

Harbour web site is know as malware from google chrome

Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me

and i confirm problem

It's not a matter of browsers.

I'm using Opera and AVG antivirus (no the browser) tells me that strmenu.js and harbour-menu.js are infected with 'blackhole exploit kit  type 2170'

Regards,

Roberto.

[francesco perillo]

Probably it was hacker. It's quite Common. Please don't go to the url, blackhole is a powerfull exploit that can be used to install malware in your PC. STAY AWAY FROM THE SITE.

[Claudia Neumann]

Hi all,

I get information, that malware is on harbour website see attached screenshot.

The website has been hacked.

Google has visited 3 webpages of harbour-project.org and has found 2 webpages
which host malware. Webmaster should clean it.

Best regards

Claudia

Am Samstag Juni 23 2012 schrieb Guillermo Varona Silupú:
> En Firefox tambien:

>
>
> BestRegards
> GVS
>
> El 23/06/2012 01:48 p.m., Massimo Belgrano escribió:

> > Harbour web site <http://www.harbour-project.org/> is know as malware

> > from google chrome
> > Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me
> > and i confirm problem
> >
> > http://www.harbour-project.org/ contain malware and your computer maj
> > get a virus
> >

> > Immagine in linea 1

[Andrzej P. Wozniak]

From: Bacco <carlo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 10:05 PM

> IMHO It would be good if you post images as attachments and not inline
> in the mail body.

And it would be even better to:
– NOT use HTML (especially containing javascript) in email;
– NOT quote full messages (especially long or containing attachments).

--
Regards from The Harbour Project mirror in Poland
Andrzej P. Woźniak





------

Adresik to ja mam w http://www.adresik.pl - tania rejestracja domen

[Andrzej P. Wozniak]

From: Massimo Belgrano
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:48 PM

> Harbour web site is know as malware from google chrome
> Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me
> and i confirm problem

> http://www.harbour-project.org/ contain malware and your computer maj
> get a virus

Confirmed. Javascript files menu/stmenu.js, menu/harbour-menu.js and
possibly all *.js have been infected yesterday (June 22) with some malware.

Some time ago I informed about abusing or bad quality of javascript code
used for harbour-project website, but my info was ignored. Maybe now it's
the right time to fix the website?

[Phil Krylov]

I confirm this is a real issue, and it goes further than
harbour-project website: I had to temporarily switch off a reference
to the Harbour logo image on our website page, because (at least)
Chromium said while browsing to our website:

Warning!

starling.rinet.ru contains content from www.harbour-project.org, a
site known to distribute malware. Your computer might catch a virus if
you visit this site.

etc...

-- Ph.

[Bacco]

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Phil Krylov <ph...@newstar.rinet.ru> wrote:
> I confirm this is a real issue, and it goes further than
> harbour-project website: I had to temporarily switch off a reference
> to the Harbour logo image on our website page, because (at least)
> Chromium said while browsing to our website:

By the way, you should copy the image, and not do a hotlink anyway.

Regards,
Bacco

[Phil Krylov]

You're right but this solves only my problem.


-- Ph

[Bacco]

> You're right but this solves only my problem.

Solves the problem of wasting bandwith from the harbour-project too. I
know that linking to an image consumes few bytes per access, but it's
good pratice you use your own resources to mantain your site.

About the problem, I know that it need to be fixed, but unfortunately
I don't have access to this. I hope Vailton or any other dev can fix
it soon.

Regards
Bacco

[Vailton Renato Silva]

Yes, tomorrow I'll be checking this code.

Best Regards,
Vailton Renato Silva
E-mail/MSN: con...@vailton.com.br
Skype: vailtom

Em 24/06/2012, às 06:11, Massimo Belgrano escreveu:

Hi Vailton Renato

can you update

harbour website after last problem?

Thanks in advance

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Andrzej P. Wozniak <har...@os.pl>
Date: 2012/6/23
Subject: Re: [harbour] Harbour web site is know as malware
To: harbou...@googlegroups.com


From: Massimo Belgrano
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:48 PM

> Harbour web site is know as malware from google chrome
> Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me
> and i confirm problem

> http://www.harbour-project.org/ contain malware and your computer maj
> get a virus

Confirmed. Javascript files menu/stmenu.js, menu/harbour-menu.js and
possibly all *.js have been infected yesterday (June 22) with some malware.

Some time ago I informed about abusing or bad quality of javascript code
used for harbour-project website, but my info was ignored. Maybe now it's
the right time to fix the website?

--
Regards from The Harbour Project mirror in Poland
Andrzej P. Woźniak

--

Massimo Belgrano

[Andrzej P. Wozniak]

From: francesco perillo
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:39 PM

> Il giorno 23/giu/2012 23:31, "Roberto Lopez" <robe...@gmail.com> ha
> scritto:
>> On Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:48:57 PM UTC-3, Massimo Belgrano wrote:
>>> Harbour web site is know as malware from google chrome
>>> Giovanni Di Maria Have moticed me
>>> and i confirm problem
>> It's not a matter of browsers.
>> I'm using Opera and AVG antivirus (no the browser) tells me that
>> strmenu.js and harbour-menu.js are infected with 'blackhole exploit kit
>> type 2170'

> Probably it was hacker.

This exploit kit is available even for script kiddies, so it's not a matter
of hackers. It's a problem with lazy site admins or lazy webmasters that
don't care enough about the site or their own systems.

> It's quite Common.

In this case you are right. It's usually security hole in outdated software,
f.e. ftp client keeping unencrypted password, unpatched http server etc.

> Please don't go to the url,
> blackhole is a powerfull exploit that can be used to install malware
> in your PC.

Don't panic, please. It's better to explain the infection way, f.e. linking
to
http://blogs.avg.com/news-threats/threat-encyclopedia-blackhole-exploit-kit/
than just scare people.
Blackhole exploit kit uses security holes on the client-side system to load
exploits that the client computer is vulnerable to. In this case the kit has
probably found outdated ftp client (f.e. Total Commander) or unencrypted ftp
passwords and used them to infect harbour website.

> STAY AWAY FROM THE SITE.

Clean js files are now restored, but webmasters should be more careful with
keeping their systems clean: update browsers and ftp clients, Flash Player,
Adobe Reader and Java Runtime, keep passwords encrypted etc.

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."
(Matthew 25:13)

--
Regards from The Harbour Project mirror in Poland
Andrzej P. Woźniak

[Lucas B.]

Yes, it is still.

 

How can i help?.

 

Who is the mantainer of the web page?.

 

 

[Massimo Belgrano]

afaik

Renato Vailton

2012/6/26 Lucas B. <lucasde...@gmail.com>

Yes, it is still.

 

How can i help?.

 

Who is the mantainer of the web page?.

 

 

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Bacco]

There's only one with password to access the site???

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Massimo Belgrano <mbel...@deltain.it> wrote:
> afaik
> Renato Vailton

[Viktor Szakáts]

No, and probably you can also get one if you ask for it.

BTW, I've been suggesting (or wanted to suggest?) to
move the site content to sf.net a while ago. Putting only
a redirect to current web-space.

This would not resolve the problem, but could probably
mitigate it.

I'm cleaning up this mess (and others I've found on the
website) ATM after removing the malware few days ago.
It takes time for Google to react.

I will move the content to sf.net and leave a redirect on
from current website.

sf.net website is this:
http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/

(if I can, I will try to remove '-project' from sf.net names,
it will break a lot of things but save everyone from a lot
of unnecessary typing)

--
Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

Can we start a Maintenaince end evolution group for harbour web site

Any voluntary?
Requisite is understand harbour or webdesign or comunication in english

2012/6/26 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net> wrote:
> No, and probably you can also get one if you ask for it.
>
> BTW, I've been suggesting (or wanted to suggest?) to
> move the site content to sf.net a while ago. Putting only
> a redirect to current web-space.
>
> This would not resolve the problem, but could probably
> mitigate it.
>
> I'm cleaning up this mess (and others I've found on the
> website) ATM after removing the malware few days ago.
> It takes time for Google to react.
>
> I will move the content to sf.net and leave a redirect on
> from current website.
>
> sf.net website is this:
>   http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/

News:
- official Harbour website remains:
http://harbour-project.org/
- the website content is now hosted under sf.net
http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/
- Phil's hosting space now contains a redirection to above site
- I've configured harbour-project.org in webmaster tools to
drop "www." prefix
- Requested and received malware review, so the warning is
now cleared
- Deleted unused objects from web space
- Updated web pages to not reference harbour-project.org as
root address, so it's now 'portable'
- Deleted obsolete information on old list archives (they are
no longer available)
- Fixed few website errors, like bad accented chars, copyright years, etc
- Updated/fixed some references to VCS files
- Noticed that SVN database backup stalled on 2012-03-20
- Deleted all files except last SVN database backup from Phil's site
- Now any sf.net member with sufficient rights can update the
website:
SFTP/SCP: <username>,harbour...@web.sourceforge.net:/home/groups/h/ha/harbour-project/htdocs/
(read sf.net docs for more)
- Noticed that SVN source packages stopped being generated
on Phil's site a few month ago
- Rename service on sf.net doesn't work, so "harbour-project" -> "harbour"
rename wasn't done yet.
- Noticed that the website contains extremely outdated FAQ (8 years
old) and DOCS (11 years old), which would probably better be removed
to not mislead users.
- All above doesn't mean that remaining 'index.php' file won't
get infected anytime, but at least it will be easier to detect
what has changed and restore.

Probably it'd be better to base the whole thing on Mediawiki,
so updating/maintenance would be easier.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

Thanks
Viktor/Przemek

what about the idea of create 

an official group of people who want improve harbour weh site ?

same people have written me like Claudia (it webmaster of three projects at sf and fluend speak english)

that are intrested in improve harbour wehsite

can i start a private mailinglist https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/harbourweb 

for coordinate people like claudia tath want improve harbour web site 

for not oversend developer mailing list

Discussion may be like this
IMO harbour is more powerfull that website show 

What need harbour web site in your opinion?

------------------------------
I think at the moment harbour is only perseived as successor of Clipper. That is
not goot.

We should emphasize that harbour using the same syntax as Clipper/dbase and so
on, but is far more powerful, using C with all its perspectives and is
multiplatform. If hbQT is stable again, this would be a goog shot.

And we should emphasize that for many purposes you don't need a full SQL machine
like mysql or postgresql to handle data i.e. for small to medium offices. In
fact many small offices still use Clipper programs which were implemented years
ago.

-------------------------------------------------------

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Massimo Belgrano <mbel...@deltain.it> wrote:
> Thanks
> Viktor/Przemek
> what about the idea of create
> an official group of people who want improve harbour weh site ?

I think this group is perfectly fine for this purpose.

> same people have written me like Claudia (it webmaster of three projects at
> sf and fluend speak english)

Would be nice to hear these things directly here.

> that are intrested in improve harbour wehsite
> can i start a private
> mailinglist https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/harbourweb
> for coordinate people like claudia tath want improve harbour web site
> for not oversend developer mailing list

My vote is not to split discussion into more pieces.
This list is about Harbour development, including the
development of other core aspects related to Harbour,
like its website.

-- Viktor

[Vailton]

Hi,

I believe that to give a good survival to our site would need to use some type of script like PHP. Just so we could keep the changelogs easily accessible.

Today when you update anything, it is necessary to modify the sources of many html files, which turns out to be very tiring. I know PHP but I remember that was a requirement at the time that these technologies were not used in developing the site.

I've drawn some new layouts, but without any dynamic language many resources are limited. Even recently I started assembling a new site using html and javascript, but does not complete your layout yet.

Note: sorry for bad english.

Best Regards,

Vailton Renato

[Claudia Neumann]

Hi Viktor,

yes, a wiki would be a great improvement. As I am reading harbour-users and
harbour-devel, the same questions come up over and over again.

I had answered to Massimo personally, because I don't know if the subject of
improvement of the harbour website is interesting for the developers. It is
quite different.

CU

Claudia

[Viktor Szakáts]

Hi Vailton,

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Vailton <vai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I believe that to give a good survival to our site would need to use some
> type of script like PHP. Just so we could keep the changelogs easily
> accessible.
>
> Today when you update anything, it is necessary to modify the sources of
> many html files, which turns out to be very tiring. I know PHP but I
> remember that was a requirement at the time that these technologies were not
> used in developing the site.

I'd still wouldn't want to limit our choices by using
dynamic pages. The only exception, if those dynamic
pages are served by Harbour and written as Harbour
scripts. But this requires a custom server, which we
don't have ATM.

> I've drawn some new layouts, but without any dynamic language many resources
> are limited. Even recently I started assembling a new site using html and
> javascript, but does not complete your layout yet.

Isn't there any other way to avoid redundancy than
using PHP? Anything in HTML5/CSS? Any ways
to design the pages so that not everything is duplicated
on each page?

What about MediaWiki or similar? If we have limited
resources and need to choose between great design
and up-to-date content, I'd chose the latter.

Can we cut some information and point to SVN files,
instead of duplicating them in .html? (f.e. FAQ -> INSTALL)

> Note: sorry for bad english.

Your English is perfectly fine and clear.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

Your 
Vote and Przemek 
are the only good  for us

I Propose use Claudia 's experience  asap

2012/6/26 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>

My vote is not to split discussion into more pieces.
This list is about Harbour development, including the
development of other core aspects related to Harbour,
like its website.

-- Viktor

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Viktor Szakáts]

Hi Claudia,

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Claudia Neumann
<dr.claudi...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi Viktor,
>
> yes, a wiki would be a great improvement. As I am reading harbour-users and

We have one since many years. Nobody used it so far. It's
hosted on sf.net, and readily usable. (though they will delete
it in a few weeks and we will have to host it ourselves)

> harbour-devel, the same questions come up over and over again.

We have a FAQ, with very up to the point and precise information
in very good format. The problem is it wasn't updated in the last
8 years. Updating it would be a very good idea:
http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/faq/harbour.html

It shows some overlap with INSTALL, which is updated daily, and
I'm still hoping for any suggestion how to make it (more) clear.

If you want, you can start a new doc anywhere on the net to
start with a new FAQ.

> I had answered to Massimo personally, because I don't know if the subject of
> improvement of the harbour website is interesting for the developers. It is
> quite different.

It definitely is.

-- Viktor

[Claudia Neumann]

Hi Viktor,

Sourceforge offers mediawiki for its project. Look at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_SourceForge.net

CU

Claudia

[Vailton]

Hi,

On Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:14:23 PM UTC-3, vszakats wrote:

Hi Vailton,

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Vailton <vai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I believe that to give a good survival to our site would need to use some
> type of script like PHP. Just so we could keep the changelogs easily
> accessible.
>
> Today when you update anything, it is necessary to modify the sources of
> many html files, which turns out to be very tiring. I know PHP but I
> remember that was a requirement at the time that these technologies were not
> used in developing the site.

I'd still wouldn't want to limit our choices by using
dynamic pages. The only exception, if those dynamic
pages are served by Harbour and written as Harbour
scripts. But this requires a custom server, which we
don't have ATM.

> I've drawn some new layouts, but without any dynamic language many resources
> are limited. Even recently I started assembling a new site using html and
> javascript, but does not complete your layout yet.

Isn't there any other way to avoid redundancy than
using PHP? Anything in HTML5/CSS? Any ways
to design the pages so that not everything is duplicated
on each page?

With PHP we can do it.

 

What about MediaWiki or similar? If we have limited
resources and need to choose between great design
and up-to-date content, I'd chose the latter.

Can we cut some information and point to SVN files,
instead of duplicating them in .html? (f.e. FAQ -> INSTALL)

Sure. With PHP we can do it easily.

 

> Note: sorry for bad english.

Your English is perfectly fine and clear.

-- Viktor

To update the site is interesting to stand up suggestions on what we can improve (perhaps creating a new thread for this)...

From the list of improvements, we can decide whether PHP or HTML / CSS will be the most useful.

I really want to be able to quickly insert news, tips and hints about Harbour without having to edit html files (which sometimes discourages updates because of all the great work involved). 

Best Regards,

Vailton Renato

[Massimo Belgrano]

About faq I have collected this

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15pJ8qFrMXGoK1b3OsAJmZOiEh_HONB4BYhr8JetAs7U/edit 

Can we revise

2012/6/26 Claudia Neumann <dr.claudi...@gmx.de>

Hi Viktor,

Sourceforge offers mediawiki for its project. Look at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_SourceForge.net

CU

Claudia


Am Dienstag Juni 26 2012 schrieb Claudia Neumann:

> Hi Viktor,
>
> yes, a wiki would be a great improvement. As I am reading harbour-users and
> harbour-devel, the same questions come up over and over again.
>
> I had answered to Massimo personally, because I don't know if the subject
> of improvement of the harbour website is interesting for the developers.
> It is quite different.
>
> CU
>
> Claudia
>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Claudia Neumann
<dr.claudi...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi Viktor,
>
> Sourceforge offers mediawiki for its project. Look at
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installing_MediaWiki_on_SourceForge.net

I know. That's turned on for Harbour since it's available.
This is what they will delete in a few weeks. See my
e-mail (with a link) from last week.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

How can integrate Claudia and two morrow other people in this club?
It is a webmaster of three projects at sourceforge and webmaster of a commercial website. 
His English is fairly well.
Can Claudia have sf account for co-admin our website?

How we can made the result suggested from claudia

we A website for language or for the compiler?
Can somebody suggest phrase for add to website?

------------------------
I think at the moment harbour is only perseived as successor of Clipper. That is
not goot.

We should emphasize that harbour using the same syntax as Clipper/dbase and so
on, but is far more powerful, using C with all its perspectives and is
multiplatform. If hbQT is stable again, this would be a goog shot.

And we should emphasize that for many purposes you don't need a full SQL machine
like mysql or postgresql to handle data i.e. for small to medium offices. In
fact many small offices still use Clipper programs which were implemented years
ago.

2012/6/26 Vailton <vai...@gmail.com>
>
> Hi,

>
>
>> What about MediaWiki or similar? If we have limited
>> resources and need to choose between great design
>> and up-to-date content, I'd chose the latter.
>>
>> Can we cut some information and point to SVN files,
>> instead of duplicating them in .html? (f.e. FAQ -> INSTALL)
>
>
> Sure. With PHP we can do it easily.
>  
>>
>>
>> > Note: sorry for bad english.
>>
>> Your English is perfectly fine and clear.
>>
>> -- Viktor
>
>
> To update the site is interesting to stand up suggestions on what we can improve (perhaps creating a new thread for this)...
> From the list of improvements, we can decide whether PHP or HTML / CSS will be the most useful.
> I really want to be able to quickly insert news, tips and hints about Harbour without having to edit html files (which sometimes discourages updates because of all the great work involved). 
>
> Best Regards,
> Vailton Renato

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Claudia Neumann]

Hi Viktor,

Am Dienstag Juni 26 2012 schrieb Viktor Szakáts:

> Hi Claudia,
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Claudia Neumann
>
> <dr.claudi...@gmx.de> wrote:
> > Hi Viktor,
> >
> > yes, a wiki would be a great improvement. As I am reading harbour-users
> > and
>
> We have one since many years. Nobody used it so far. It's
> hosted on sf.net, and readily usable. (though they will delete
> it in a few weeks and we will have to host it ourselves)

Are you sure? I understand that the mediawiki pages are moved to the projects
webspace.

If not sourceforge, there is surely some other open source webspace to get a
wiki installed. I.e. http://www.wikidot.com/ ??

> > harbour-devel, the same questions come up over and over again.
>
> We have a FAQ, with very up to the point and precise information
> in very good format. The problem is it wasn't updated in the last
> 8 years. Updating it would be a very good idea:
> http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/faq/harbour.html

Okay, I am reading here since several years and never came to this webpage.
Because it was never updated, Google doesn't show it.

> It shows some overlap with INSTALL, which is updated daily, and
> I'm still hoping for any suggestion how to make it (more) clear.

Okay, chapter 4 is misleading, because some contribs nead other contribs to be
compiled. Perhaps a list which contrib needs which other contrib could help. And
an explicit advice to not set these options at first start.

> If you want, you can start a new doc anywhere on the net to
> start with a new FAQ.

Why not a wiki, so that several guys can take over their part. I can only do
parts of harbour.

> > I had answered to Massimo personally, because I don't know if the subject
> > of improvement of the harbour website is interesting for the developers.
> > It is quite different.
>
> It definitely is.

Okay.

CU

Claudia

[francesco perillo]

+1 for wiki with login

[Viktor Szakáts]

Strong downvote for developing our own PHP website.

My point was to hear what other options are available,
not that PHP is able to solve these (in it's terrible way),
which I know.

If there is no other way, my current best opinion is that we
should use the simplest content management tool, which
already exists, f.e. MediaWiki or WordPress. I know they
are PHP, but we don't have to develop them, only use
them and there are plenty of tools. Too bad sf.net doesn't
provide these starting next month, so maybe static .html
remains the most straightforward option.

Back to static website:
- there are 19 .html main pages
- 2-3 of them needs regular changes
- samples. I think those can be simply deleted
and moved to the SVN area as simple .prg or .hb files.
Or, kept as is, and header/footer deleted so that they
are self-contained and never need maintenance. Latter
would be better, as those sample pages are much friendlier
than bare .prg/.hb files.

So overall it's not huge task to maintain current one, and
f.e. the copyright year can be updated using simple JS
code, so it never again has to be touched.

-- Viktor

--
Viktor

[Bacco]

I vote for static maintenance at this moment, to keep things doable
shortly, and without creating new problems.


Regards
Bacco

[Viktor Szakáts]

>> <dr.claudi...@gmx.de> wrote:
>> > Hi Viktor,
>> >
>> > yes, a wiki would be a great improvement. As I am reading harbour-users
>> > and
>>
>> We have one since many years. Nobody used it so far. It's
>> hosted on sf.net, and readily usable. (though they will delete
>> it in a few weeks and we will have to host it ourselves)
>
> Are you sure? I understand that the mediawiki pages are moved to the projects
> webspace.

They are not moved there automatically. You/we can move them
there and they will provide information about how to migrate
existing data.

> If not sourceforge, there is surely some other open source webspace to get a
> wiki installed. I.e. http://www.wikidot.com/ ??

I don't know this service, but certainly there is some wiki which
we can use. I'd stick with something that uses MediaWiki notation,
but the software itself can be anything. The simpler, the better.

>> We have a FAQ, with very up to the point and precise information
>> in very good format. The problem is it wasn't updated in the last
>> 8 years. Updating it would be a very good idea:
>>    http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/faq/harbour.html
>
> Okay, I am reading here since several years and never came to this webpage.
> Because it was never updated, Google doesn't show it.

Yes indeed, for this same reason it's not widely advertised
from here or from INSTALL either.

BTW, those html pages are generated from some source code.

>> It shows some overlap with INSTALL, which is updated daily, and
>> I'm still hoping for any suggestion how to make it (more) clear.
>
> Okay, chapter 4 is misleading, because some contribs nead other contribs to be
> compiled. Perhaps a list which contrib needs which other contrib could help. And
> an explicit advice to not set these options at first start.

We need other solution, so that we don't have to maintain
a hardcopy of the dependency tree in docs. The dependency
tree BTW is built automatically and dynamically, based on
information found in live .hbp/.hbc files.

So to avoid being misleading, think about a wording that makes
it clear that that whole chapter talks about _3rd party
dependencies_. This is made clear by the first few sentences
of the chapter content.

> Why not a wiki, so that several guys can take over their part. I can only do
> parts of harbour.

It doesn't matter at this point. You can start a google doc,
or post it here.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

I suggest add to harbour web site html generated from hbdoc2 

cd \hharbour\examples\hbdoc2

hbmk2 hbdoc2.hbp
cd \harbour\doc\en

\harbour\examples\hbdoc2\hbdoc2 -format=html

2856 items found

Output as html

Creating folder html

final result in  C:\harbour\doc\en\html\

2012/6/26 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Vailton Renato Silva]

Viktor really, maybe working more with html/Javascript will be possible to achieve a better facility for maintenance. So we need to analyze what are the points that need to be improved in the current site and then decide how it can be done.

Best Regards,
Vailton Renato Silva

E-mail/MSN: con...@vailton.com.br
Skype: vailtom

[Viktor Szakáts]

> So overall it's not huge task to maintain current one, and
> f.e. the copyright year can be updated using simple JS
> code, so it never again has to be touched.

I've done this now, so no "2012" string is present in
any of the .html files.

-- Viktor

[Viktor Szakáts]

Hi Vailton,

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Vailton Renato Silva <vai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Viktor really, maybe working more with html/Javascript will be possible to achieve a better facility for
> maintenance. So we need to analyze what are the points that need to be improved in the current site and
> then decide how it can be done.

I agree. Basically nothing I did today needs to be ever done again,
so the situation is not bad at all.

Even footers/headers can be solved with JS, just like copyright
year I just uploaded. Inline formatting can be moved to CSS.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

Can add a news in Harbour Project Development News
where describe born of harbour group web?


2012/6/26 Massimo Belgrano <mbel...@deltain.it>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[francesco perillo]

On my home PC i browse with js disabled.

Status web pages means you must know HTML. And css.

And updating pages may result in broken HTML.

With a wiki massimo can move from his google docs collection ....

I'm for a wiki. Collaborative tool.

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Massimo Belgrano <mbel...@deltain.it> wrote:
> I suggest add to harbour web site html generated from hbdoc2
>
> cd \hharbour\examples\hbdoc2
> hbmk2 hbdoc2.hbp
> cd \harbour\doc\en
> \harbour\examples\hbdoc2\hbdoc2 -format=html
>
> 2856 items found
> Output as html
> Creating folder html
>
> final result in  C:\harbour\doc\en\html\

It's outdated and incomplete information.

We don't have proper docs for Harbour, so IMO the question
is not where to store them or how to convert them from
one file format to another, but how to write one. I know
it's not very popular fact, but true.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

i can switch all my doc on wiki where is possible
so many user maj revise it

seem very old the spanish
can samebody create an trasnlated page?
or remove link http://alex-degarate.110mb.com/harbour/


2012/6/26 francesco perillo <fper...@gmail.com>:

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:16 PM, francesco perillo <fper...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On my home PC i browse with js disabled.
>
> Status web pages means you must know HTML. And css.
>
> And updating pages may result in broken HTML.

You can whitelist harbour website. JS has been used
since (at least) 2007, so using it more doesn't introduce
any new dependencies or problems. Most websites use
JS for one purpose or another.

> With a wiki massimo can move from his google docs collection ....

Theoretically yes, but that information is stripped from
authors and links/references, if these can be retrofitted,
and formatting cleaned to something professional, it may
be usable.

-- Viktor

[Francesco Saverio Giudice]

Hi Viktor,

Il 26/06/2012 18.14, Viktor Szakáts ha scritto:
> I'd still wouldn't want to limit our choices by using dynamic pages.
> The only exception, if those dynamic pages are served by Harbour and
> written as Harbour scripts. But this requires a custom server, which
> we don't have ATM.

Do you mean an harbour web server (software) or a proprietary server in
which you can install different software than LAMP ?
In first case I have it, I have decided to put it on sf (I don't know if
in harbour SVN or in different project) but there are something to be
arranged to make it available (not already updated to UTF8 for example).
My web server is already functional (but there are some parts to finish)
from more than 1 year as I have my web server running on it and with a
lot of functionalities.

BR,
Francesco

[Vailton Renato Silva]

Hi,
We do not need money. I can donate to the project Harbour free hosting with PHP + MySQL without any problems. Just wonder if this is something that will help the project and if this is what needs to Harbour.

I really desire to contribute to the project.

Best Regards,
Vailton Renato Silva

E-mail/MSN: con...@vailton.com.br
Skype: vailtom

[Massimo Belgrano]

IMO is more update than actual doc
Can we publish html from hdb?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TZevk1bcRW34ZpOMWCMnI69EQFietZc6hCCJ4x1EtE4/edit

here ve have big partecipation but no chance coordinate effort of
francesco,carlos,renato,claudia,massimo


can in harbour write a harbour app for made easy creation of harbour
documentation using a collaboration model




2012/6/26 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>:

>
> It's outdated and incomplete information.
>
> We don't have proper docs for Harbour, so IMO the question
> is not where to store them or how to convert them from
> one file format to another, but how to write one. I know
> it's not very popular fact, but true.
>
> -- Viktor

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Viktor Szakáts]

Hi Francesco,

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Francesco Saverio Giudice
<in...@fsgiudice.com> wrote:
> Hi Viktor,
>
> Il 26/06/2012 18.14, Viktor Szakáts ha scritto:
>>
>> I'd still wouldn't want to limit our choices by using dynamic pages. The
>> only exception, if those dynamic pages are served by Harbour and written as
>> Harbour scripts. But this requires a custom server, which we don't have ATM.
>
> Do you mean an harbour web server (software) or a proprietary server in
> which you can install different software than LAMP ?

I meant the server hardware + software with which we can do
the above. Honestly I'm unsure how far we're into having a
PHP/Python-like server software infrastructure in practice.
F.e. having a mod_harbour module for Apache and be able
to use Harbour with this standard server component.

> In first case I have it, I have decided to put it on sf (I don't know if in
> harbour SVN or in different project) but there are something to be arranged
> to make it available (not already updated to UTF8 for example).
> My web server is already functional (but there are some parts to finish)
> from more than 1 year as I have my web server running on it and with a lot
> of functionalities.

Sounds very good and it's very good news to hear your decision.

I'd say to replace current /examples/httpsrv/, where you and others
can add any necessary patches and everyone can try it.

F.e. we could use hbdoc to pull doc sources from SVN and
generate html docs on the fly (of course with some caching
in place) as part of the web-server.

-- Viktor

[Vailton Renato Silva]

Hi Viktor,

Em 26/06/2012, às 15:48, Viktor Szakáts escreveu:

> Hi Francesco,
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Francesco Saverio Giudice
> <in...@fsgiudice.com> wrote:
>> Hi Viktor,
>>
>> Il 26/06/2012 18.14, Viktor Szakáts ha scritto:
>>>
>>> I'd still wouldn't want to limit our choices by using dynamic pages. The
>>> only exception, if those dynamic pages are served by Harbour and written as
>>> Harbour scripts. But this requires a custom server, which we don't have ATM.
>>
>> Do you mean an harbour web server (software) or a proprietary server in
>> which you can install different software than LAMP ?
>
> I meant the server hardware + software with which we can do
> the above. Honestly I'm unsure how far we're into having a
> PHP/Python-like server software infrastructure in practice.
> F.e. having a mod_harbour module for Apache and be able
> to use Harbour with this standard server component.

Waht this mod_harbour will be parse? .prg files?

[Viktor Szakáts]

>> I meant the server hardware + software with which we can do
>> the above. Honestly I'm unsure how far we're into having a
>> PHP/Python-like server software infrastructure in practice.
>> F.e. having a mod_harbour module for Apache and be able
>> to use Harbour with this standard server component.
>
> Waht this mod_harbour will be parse? .prg files?

I'd imagine it'd be parse Harbour code, just like
mod_php parses PHP code. Such code can be
embedded in HTML files or reside in separate
source files. I'd prefer .hb extension, but it can be
.prg, this is webserver configuration detail. It could
also process precompiled .hrb files.

-- Viktor

[Francesco Saverio Giudice]

Il 26/06/2012 20.48, Viktor Szakáts ha scritto:
> Hi Francesco,

>
> I meant the server hardware + software with which we can do
> the above. Honestly I'm unsure how far we're into having a
> PHP/Python-like server software infrastructure in practice.
> F.e. having a mod_harbour module for Apache and be able
> to use Harbour with this standard server component.

Actually the web server has these features:
- multi-thread
- dynamic threads (added and deleted as needed)
- pipelined browser requests support
- SSL (not fully implemented as some functions are missing from SVN to
verify client certificate)
- internal support for *.hrb, *.hbs, *.hbe, external cgi
- embedded html support with .hbe extension like asp or php
- virtual hosts support
- aliased server names
- multi tcp port support per virtual host
- plugins support (dynamic library loaded on webserver start)
- handle chuncked files in upload (download not still implemented)
- script alias
- aliases
- path_info support
- sessions support
- cookies
- lib GD support
- rewrote from scratch as class library, fully embeddable in applications
and other features

> Sounds very good and it's very good news to hear your decision. I'd
> say to replace current /examples/httpsrv/, where you and others can
> add any necessary patches and everyone can try it. F.e. we could use
> hbdoc to pull doc sources from SVN and generate html docs on the fly
> (of course with some caching in place) as part of the web-server.

I will check

BR,
Francesco

[Viktor Szakáts]

>> cd \hharbour\examples\hbdoc2
>> hbmk2 hbdoc2.hbp
>> cd \harbour\doc\en
>> \harbour\examples\hbdoc2\hbdoc2 -format=html

I used:
hbdoc -output-single -format=html

> It's outdated and incomplete information.

I've updated 11 years old docs with this one.
No fundamental changes, but at least now it's
the latest one from SVN.

Unfortunately hbdoc doesn't generate an index
when outputting multiple .htmls, so I had to select
single output file, which is quite large at 3.5MB.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

Thanks Viktor

so we have first release harbour 4 doc http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/doc/harbour.html 

afaik antonio have used hbdoc2 for this better result

http://www.fivetechsoft.com/harbour-docs/harbour.html 

so i invite Antonio  Linares share his tricks if possible

another interesting way is made from pritpal http://www.harbour.vouch.info/index.html?doc.htm

Why you suggest \harbour\examples\hbdoc instead   \harbour\examples\hbdoc2  ?

Can be joined with hbd generation?

what can be done for update "file" function description?

only as example

How much easy integrated the modification of a function

2012/6/26 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Massimo Belgrano]

Very intresting idea

Can you post your source

starting a new discussiion

with the official tool for upload http://dropcanvas.com/

Il tuo progetto è davvero interessante

posta i sorgenti su una nuova discussione con http://dropcanvas.com/

Ti suggerisco di formarlo con hbformat e seguire le convenzioini di harbour come hbamf

Grazie per la tua preziosa collaborazione al progetto harbour

Massimo

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Massimo Belgrano <mbel...@deltain.it> wrote:
> Thanks Viktor
> so we have first release harbour 4
> doc http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/doc/harbour.html
> afaik antonio have used hbdoc2 for this better result
> http://www.fivetechsoft.com/harbour-docs/harbour.html
> so i invite Antonio  Linares share his tricks if possible

Yep.

> another interesting way is made from
> pritpal http://www.harbour.vouch.info/index.html?doc.htm

It uses some proprietary / sophisticated solution,
it's also quite slow and involves frames. I'd prefer to
keep it simple.

> Why you suggest \harbour\examples\hbdoc instead   \harbour\examples\hbdoc2
> ?
> Can be joined with hbd generation?

Nothing special, see:
2012-06-05 15:46 UTC+0200

Well, hbdoc should ideally able to read .hbd files, or
at least use __hbdoc_*() API to read NG files from disk,
but someone will have to implement it.

> what can be done for update "file" function description?
> only as example

I'd guess it'd need cleaning up the docs?

> How much easy integrated the modification of a function

Sorry, I don't understand.

-- Viktor

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Massimo Belgrano <mbel...@deltain.it> wrote:
> IMO is more update than actual doc
> Can we publish html from hdb?
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TZevk1bcRW34ZpOMWCMnI69EQFietZc6hCCJ4x1EtE4/edit
>
> here ve have big partecipation but no chance coordinate effort of
> francesco,carlos,renato,claudia,massimo
>
> can in harbour write a harbour app for made easy creation of harbour
> documentation using a collaboration model

Please, let's not start it again. It's not a matter
of app, it's a matter of writing it. We have text source
files, we have the format, we have them in SVN,
we have SVN users, we have this list where anyone
can send files and patches, and everyone has a text
editor.

The only thing Harbour needs is contributors willing
to write docs.

-- Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

a few number of people here know how update documentation

I am first that staring my collection now understand how

I have also requested but i think that i explain very bad my question 

> what can be done for update "file" function description?
> only as example

I want know what are the operation for update the pcount page

Can somebody better explain what operation must be done (except svn update)for update the pcount() function

starting form a search in harbour ?

PCOUNT()

Retrieves the number of arguments passed to a function. 

Syntax

PCOUNT() --> <nArgs> 

Argument(s)

None 

Returns

<nArgs> A number that indicates the number of arguments passed to a function or procedure. 

Description

This function is useful to check if a function or procedure has received the required number of arguments. 

Example(s)

See Test

Test(s)

function Test( xExp )
if PCount() == 0
? "This function needs a parameter"
else
? xExp
endif
return nil

Status

Ready 

Compliance

This is CA-Cl*pper v5.2 compliant 

File(s)

Library is vm 

See also

HB_PVALUE()

I want add a text where

suggest not use pcount for program who need evolution because when you add parameter not know how many pcount are used in your function

so better verificate each value passed who need be present

2012/6/26 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Francesco Saverio Giudice]

Hi Massimo,
I will post sources in SVN, no other site, ASAP I will ready to do it.
And I think I remember how to format sources.
If you want to see something in action you can see my webserver at my working web site www.conxulta.it (sorry for non-italian readers). It is pure harbour code sitting on linux CentOS 64 bit VM.
One request: instead of writing mails in the same second you think and send it away, wait one moment and check at last that translation and words written are, more or less, correct.
I'm the first person that make too much errors writing in English, but every time I write something, having respect for other readers, I read it twice to check if there are relevant errors. Then I press "Send".
Nothing of personal, but I feel me bad every time I see your email.
BR,
Francesco

[Massimo Belgrano]

Thanks for your right note about my english and my post

2012/6/27 Francesco Saverio Giudice <in...@fsgiudice.com>

Hi Massimo,
I will post sources in SVN, no other site, ASAP I will ready to do it.
And I think I remember how to format sources.
If you want to see something in action you can see my webserver at my working web site www.conxulta.it (sorry for non-italian readers). It is pure harbour code sitting on linux CentOS 64 bit VM.
One request: instead of writing mails in the same second you think and send it away, wait one moment and check at last that translation and words written are, more or less, correct.
I'm the first person that make too much errors writing in English, but every time I write something, having respect for other readers, I read it twice to check if there are relevant errors. Then I press "Send".
Nothing of personal, but I feel me bad every time I see your email.
BR,
Francesco

--
Massimo Belgrano

[francesco perillo]

Just to note that my antivirus says that HMG forum is serving malware....   :-)

[Viktor Szakáts]

Just noticed that the JS menu system Harbour's homepage
(/menu/st*.js) is using is payware and obviously the trial period
of 30 days has long gone. I think we should replace it with
a free solution. Any idea?

[ F.e.: http://harbour-project.sourceforge.net/menu/stmenu.js ]

--
Viktor

[Massimo Belgrano]

a friend have suggested me jscook

http://jscook.yuanheng.org/JSCookMenu/ 

http://sourceforge.net/projects/jscook/ 

2012/6/27 Viktor Szakáts <har...@syenar.net>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Bacco]

This kind of menu can be done with pure CSS. By the way, I can't see
need from JS in the whole site as it is today.


Regards,
Bacco

[Viktor Szakáts]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Bacco <carlo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This kind of menu can be done with pure CSS. By the way, I can't see
> need from JS in the whole site as it is today.

I hope someone will implement it in CSS (maybe you can do it?)
and we can delete the menu JS.

-- Viktor

[Bacco]

> I hope someone will implement it in CSS (maybe you can do it?)
> and we can delete the menu JS.

I can start in about 6 hours from now, after the work I'm doing.

[Massimo Belgrano]

Hello Francesco

have you same news 

about your upcoming project?

2012/6/26 Francesco Saverio Giudice <in...@fsgiudice.com>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Francesco Saverio Giudice]

Hi Massimo,
I'm cleaning and translating some internal notes and reviewing some functions.
I hope I will upload server on SVN in this week (hoping I will find spare time to do it).
BR
Francesco

[Massimo Belgrano]

Very good news

Thanks

2012/7/16 Francesco Saverio Giudice <in...@fsgiudice.com>

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Massimo Belgrano]

Can i remember?

2012/7/16 Francesco Saverio Giudice <in...@fsgiudice.com>

Hi Massimo,

--
Massimo Belgrano

[Bacco]

I've started a renewal of some parts of the site, but couldn't finish
it yet, too many things happening here. The menu was already redone,
but this involves "rewiring" some other pages too. The half-done work
is at harbour-documentation.org.

I hope I can retake it in some free time.