Suggestion for this forum

[ggunsch]

I would like to make a recommendation to the person leading the
movement towards a class-action lawsuit. Would you please create a
separate Google group focused specifically on that subject? Those of
us with an interest can join that forum, which will have two great
advantages:

1) We will have a tight communication channel with just those who
are interested, and
2) We can dispense with the endless engineering debates and
bickering that clutter our inboxes (103 messages in this past week
alone)

The only reason I stay on this forum is to stay in touch with any
legal actions. I'm getting fed up with the rest, no matter how well
intentioned.

- Gregg

[CenturyLink Customer]

Good Godd almight, thank you, thank you, thank you. It's bveen over three months since my Acadia broke down and I had a new York put in. The HVAC person took my Acadia and junked it. I couldn't live without heat and now air conditioning. There is no Acadia to fix. I'm out $4500 for the replacement. Acadia should pay me something for that loss for it was and actually still is under warranty. I, too, am tired of hearing to fix it. I want my money back. How do we go about doing that? Who's taking names and addresses? Is there anybody looking into this stuff. I'm a complete novice and know nothing as to what to do, but, I'm a good follower/supporter. How do we get this off of the ground?

[David Friedman]

The only reaason I stay in this group is to save the investments of 3000 people who bought Acadia's.  I fixed mine and will kill to help others fix theirs - and the group effort is hitting home runs technically and from a publicity standpoint.

 

As the author of the many technical posts you are talking about,  I might add that we are within days of fully testing (in a sense far more comprehensive than was done by Hallowell ) - a less than $100 fix that will bring the machine to rock solid performance and which is already working perfectly in my machine that had stopped and would have imploded. 

 

I think your idea of a suit group is fantastic to divorce the two efforts.  It is important to keep the two efforts separate for many reasons.

 

Please look at the google data on the members   list - and ask the Hallowell Acadia group owner to delist  those interested in a suit (I am not interested at all since there is no money left to tie into) and move over to a new google group named  Hallowell Suit.

 

The bulk of the current groups population are owners and or HVAC people or people with technical skills - working to prove out a fix package to save their Acadia's.

 

David

[Chris]

Description This group is dedicated to home owners that own the
Hallowell Acadia Heat Pump.

It would be great to get a list of owners, who can help each other
out. Maybe compile a list of their location, the problems they have
had, possible fixes, contractors that can service Acadia's, whatever

[one mad dealer]

If people would like to see us techs move to a different group just
say the word.

Gabe

[jjd95]

Hi, I started this group, and I personally do not want anyone to leave
the group. Anyone and everyone having anything to do with Hallowell
Acadia is welcome. Former employees, distributors, service techs,
anyone at all. Any info might help us.

I have a crappy blog where I'm building my own house. A few of the
blog posts were related to the Hallowell Acadia. In one of the
comments, a reader of my blog said something like, wouldn't it be good
if Hallowell owners could get together and form a group. The only
online groups I know of are Google Groups. So I quickly created this
group, in like 2 minutes. I didn't give too much thought to the group
description, but being a home owner, I wrote that description, from my
point of view. I never even thought of hvac companies, distributors,
etc. But I certainly don't want to exclude anyone. Maybe I'll
rewrite the group description to be more inclusive.

Also anyone that is getting sick of receiving tons of e-mails, you
have other options:

Click the "Edit My Membership" link on the right side.
You can change your setting to:
a) No Email - I will read this group on the web
b) Abridged Email (Once per day or for every 100 messages) Get a
summary of new activity each day
c) Digest Email (Approximately 1 email per day) Get up to 25 full new
messages bundled into a single email
d) Email

I think the default is d), you get every e-mail.

[JS]

I welcome all comments made. I have learned more in the past month from the techies even when they disagree.

--- On Sun, 6/19/11, one mad dealer <Ga...@JosephsIAQ.com> wrote:

[RJP1267]

Gregg you have several options available to you-

1. Set your preferences to the desired notifications
2. Drop out of the group
3. Choose one of the above and keep your trap shut!

Apparently your system crashed and your pissed off, understandable,
but the rest of us are trying desperately to save ours and applaud the
work Dave, Gabe and the others are doing to aid us in that effort and
for you to disrespect them and there hard work with your pissy
comments only serves to infuriate us. The email inconvenience is a
making of your own for which you have control so why dont you stop
your crying and do something constructive to help yourself.

[Gregg Gunsch]

Keep my trap shut? Stop crying? What is wrong with you, RJP? There is
nothing "pissy" about pointing out the bickering, especially after several
truces have been called. I only suggested a very simple, constructive
mechanism to separate out the conversations. No need to wet yourself over
it.

I commend the efforts by Dave, Gabe, Chris and others to get the remaining
systems back on line. As a life-long engineer I do understand the
complexities of this situation, and wish all of you the best. If it wasn't
for the fact that my Acadia would require a replacement compressor, cap,
contactors, control board, and the proposed mods - and then operate without
any sort of warranty (keeping fingers crossed) - I might have stuck it out.
Cost/benefit analysis in my case said to jump. For those who have working
systems to keep running, I really do hope you can salvage them and get the
kind of product what we all expected in the beginning.

Since I and some others no longer have the Acadias, yet would like to stay
informed about any future legal action, it is NOT unreasonable to suggest
setting up two discussions: one for legal, one for repair. There is nothing
devisive, pissy, or crying about this perfectly rational suggestion.

-Gregg

-----Original Message-----
From: hallowel...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:hallowel...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RJP1267
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 11:40 AM
To: Hallowell Acadia
Subject: Re: Suggestion for this forum

[Gregg Gunsch]

"If people would like to see us techs move to a different group just say the
word."

Definitely not! This is where the action is. There's an enormous amount of
tech talk that is of value to many. Please stay.

The underlying problem is that many participants do not know how to use
threads. They hit "reply" and type whatever is on their minds, even if it
is a continuation of something discussed in a different thread. Because of
that, using daily digests for email delivery does not solve the problem: you
still have to sort through it all to see if there was something of interest
being discussed. I would posit that most people will ignore, rather than
sort through messages or the web interface, thereby missing some useful
information. (The fact that new joiners pose questions that have already
been answered testifies to that behavior.) If people adhered to threads,
we could stay in one big Google group. But that's not the reality.

Since the legal discussion is a low message-count activity (for now), I
suggested that it, not the technical discussions, be moved to a group
dedicated to that purpose. And let the engineering proceed civilly on this
thread! It looks like you guys are hot on the trail of some good solutions!

- Gregg

-----Original Message-----
From: hallowel...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:hallowel...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of one mad dealer
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 8:20 PM
To: Hallowell Acadia
Subject: Re: Suggestion for this forum

[one mad dealer]

I don't know who RJP is, but they are very quick to be insulting. I'm
not insulted by you're wanting to separate groups. I just would like
to have specific threads for specific issues. Starting new threads
daily makes this all very difficult for all of us. If we could all
keep our topics straight, people would probably be less frustrated.

Gabe

> > had, possible fixes, contractors that can service Acadia's, whatever- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[ken.cza...@vzw.blackberry.net]

Keep info flowing. All great ideas have critics. Just don't reply or read.
I for one got stung in the mortgage and housing downfall and have no funds to replace my acadia at this time. With all the bs I have dealt with in building my own home, it is easy to filter.
I applaud the progress on reengineering and troubleshooting. I found this group searching for options.
A word of advice... Engineers and Field Technicians often debate design and troubleshooting. It is normal. Laymen need to accept this.

Keep the info flowing.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: one mad dealer <Ga...@JosephsIAQ.com>

[Terrance Newton]

I appreciate all the feedback and TECH work folks are doing to try and
resolve issues with these systems.
I don't understand it, but I forward it along to my HVAC guys, and to my
brother who I convinced to install the Hallowell Acadia system.
(the spread sheet on savings was amazing till his unit failed)
Thank you for all the research and fix ideas, and please keep them coming.
I would gladly pay a fee for something that is proven out as a permanent fix
just to shut my little brother up.
Thanks for all the work you guys do!
Sincerely,
Terry

Gabe

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[Brian Goates]

I'm right there with Ken.

 

It is a great opportunity unfolding for entrepreneurs and experts to service a niche. There will always be debates. Listen, learn then decide your course of action and be grateful for the work that is being done.

 

I agree the class action needs a new forum. I knew the risk when I bought the beast so it's all on me and I have no one to blame nor do I want to blame anyone except the guy that has wrecked our economy and the recovery. Yikes, I'll stop it right there :-)

 

Brian

[KC]

Here's a couple of other options to add to the list:

4. In the "new google groups" setup, the list owner can
flag a thread to display at the top of the list. So create
a "class action suit" thread and ask that it, pretty
please, get displayed at the top of the list so you
don't have to search to find it.
5. Create a new google group to hash out legal strategizing
and ask the list owner here to, pretty please, include a
link to the new group in the description listing for this
group (it's wicked easy to create and manage a google
group).
6. Everyone chill, understand that not everyone has the
same goals in joining the group, and exercise your
delete button or group settings page before exercising
your right to verbally rail against others (though I'll do
my best to just ignore you if you do :)

Personally, I can't see how I'd get any money from a law
suit - after all, all of the company's assets got auctioned
off last week. If any money was recouped, it's hard to
imagine there'd be anything left over after the lawyers got
paid. All I want is a warm house in the winter, not to go
completely broke in the process, and to find a solution
that helps to provide financial support to folks who are
trying to find heating solutions that shift us farther away
from foreign imports of non-renewable fuels.

[Chris]

Well Said

[David Friedman]

I have also posted as KC said.

 

But in  my intense interaction with Bristol and in uncovering not just the Bristol starting circuit error followed by Hallowell - but the fact that Bristol compressors are failing due to the use of the super high torque starting given by the huge start cap - independent of what logic is used to disconect the start cap.

 

IF SOMEONE DOES PUT TOGETHER A CLASS ACTION SUIT - FOLLOW THE MONY AND SUE BRISTOL!

 

I have ample experience and direct expert witness testimony that will back up such a suit.

 

David

 

P.S.  And by the way - there is a Bristol authorized solution.  Namely adding the equalization dump relay logic and using PTCR (Or USMR with a small start cap) to ease the motor. This is a Bristol autherized solution that the head of application engineering at Bristol - John Tolbert - pleaded with me to use and recommend,  and then had the balls to ask me to design the circuit to do this -- which of course is trivial. (and might even be done with no addon if Chris can redesign the logic board.  But my little 3x3 pc card costing $30 and easily mounted and with only five wired to connect to get signals from the contactors and drive the needed dump solenoid,

 

So if the Google group put together a class action - and hired a lawyer to make a claim - my recommendation is get a lawyer to write a brief and file against Bristol for:

 

1.  Payment to all Acadia owners of the cost of plumbing and PTCR fix  --- plus replacement of all blown compressors - both those that failed due to Bristol's error in circuit judgement - and those that failed due the kick in torque delivered by the Bristol dual relay/dual contactor starting circuit before it breaks for the reasons I have pointed out.

 

Is there anyone trying to scope out cost of taking a class action against Bristol to that level?

 

David Friedman

 

I think I have both a technical fix we can do ourselves (USMR with 150 uf start cap) and can act as an expert witness for a class action suit against Bristol.

 

Note that my communiations with the NJ company that installed the 1200 units "smell" like there has been a payoff between the fat cat NJ company and Bristol.  (Note that this is toally conjecture and in my opinon - not to be quoted or used in any way or I could get into serious trouble.)

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Chris <cpete...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Well Said