Hal-Con 2015 Pinball Machine Project

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Seasons Greetings Halifax Makers!

Hal-Con is Atlantic Canada’s largest Sci-fi, Fantasy and Comic Convention. For one weekend in autumn, they play host to a dazzling array of games, comics, cosplay, and celebrities. If you've ever attended, you will know that one of the staples of Hal-Con is the pinball arcade.

The Halifax Makerspace has been approached by the Hal-Con organizers about the possibility of building a Hal-Con themed pinball table, and I am posting this to gauge interest, and get the ball rolling. (Pun thoroughly intended :).

So, if you're interesting in pinball, art, woodworking, electronics, mechanics, lighting, programming, design, or really anything makery, please consider helping us out.

I'd like to start by meeting on either Monday the 5th or Thursday the 8th of January. If you're interested in working on this project, please let me know by either posting below, or emailing me at spie...@gmail.com. Be sure to indicate your preference for a Monday or Thursday meeting.

I wish you all Happy Makering!

Peter Spierenburg.

[Baha Baydar]

I'd be interested in helping out.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakersp...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxm...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/halifaxmakerspace.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Baha Baydar                      http://www.hyperion.org
bba...@gmail.com           http://www.hal-con.com

[Shawn Wilson]

This could obviously be expensive, would require a huge range of skills, and the lack of any skill in a timely manner could sink the whole project.  That said, it sounds like a lot of fun and I think the most rewarding projects are the ones where you just jump into the deep end and hope you can learn to swim.  I'd be interested in hearing more about it before committing, either in this thread or at the meeting.  

--

Shawn Wilson

www.glassgiant.com

@glassgiant

[Sandy Walsh]

Likewise ... but I've always wanted to make a pinball machine. Sounds incredibly awesome (and incredibly daunting). 

Keep me in the loop for sure.

-S

[Shawn Wilson]

Oh, and Thursday works better for me than Monday, but I could likely make either.

[Sandy Walsh]

Related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u76DYViVQto

and ... this is a great documentary http://www.tilt-movie.com/

-S

[Shawn Wilson]

Peter, is this you?  Someone looking to set up a pinball building group, with details at a social this Saturday.  Six games there to play.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-activities-groups/city-of-halifax/halifax-pinball-building-group/1039885093?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

No, that isn't me.

Thanks for the link. I will definitely look into it.

Peter.

[Baha Baydar]

There's this company http://www.greatpinball.com/halifaxpinball.html in town too. I know they provide(d?) games for Hal-Con in the past. Not sure what their current status is.

[Shawn Wilson]

I'm not sure, but I think the person putting on the Kijiji event is the owner of Great Pinball.

[Adam Cox]

Peter, as you know already, I'm interested in the build. Thursday or Fridays work for me. I'd be interested in checking out that pinball building group but I can't make it this Saturday.

[Adam Smith]

Count me in! Either day (as of now) should be fine for me.

On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 9:45:27 AM UTC-4, Peter-Frank Spierenburg wrote:

[Sandy Walsh]

Yeah, don't schedule around me, but if you can gear up a Google Hangout when you're meeting, that would be awesome. 

[Shawn Wilson]

Memeball

http://hackaday.com/2014/12/18/meme-themed-pinball-machine-much-flipping-y-u-no-win/

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakersp...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxm...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/halifaxmakerspace.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

I wish you all a Happy New Year!

As most of you are aware, the Makerspace is hoping to build a Hal-Con themed pinball table in time for Hal-Con 2015 (October 30 - November 1).

I'd like to hold an informal meet-and-greet on the 8th of January from 7:00pm to 9:00pm at the Starbucks on Barrington street. (1646 Barrington Street).

I hope that you will be able to attend.

Warmest Regards!

Peter Spierenburg.

[Sandy Walsh]

Love it!

On Sunday, December 21, 2014 11:16:25 PM UTC-4, Shawn Wilson wrote:

Memeball

http://hackaday.com/2014/12/18/meme-themed-pinball-machine-much-flipping-y-u-no-win/

[Sandy Walsh]

https://howtobuildapinballmachine.wordpress.com/

[Chris McDonald]

Starbucks isnt open. Discovery centre?

--

[Chris McDonald]

I‘m here at the discovery centre and will be until 7:30. I can stick around until 9 if people show up.

[Baha Baydar]

Isn't the meeting on Thursday?

[Chris McDonald]

Oh crap, your right. Its wrong in my calandar.

[Baha Baydar]

Well if that Starbucks isn't open that late we should plan on meeting at the center instead anyway?

[Chris McDonald]

I think they are normally open but they had a fire or something today. My manager said he seen fire trucks there.

I'm not sure if I can make Thursday maybe the new library might be a good location. The facilities are pretty sweet and meeting rooms start at around $20/hour or $25 per 1/2 day for an 8 seat board room. It might even be free. They don't really explain it well:

http://www.halifaxpubliclibraries.ca/services/visiting/meeting-rooms.html

[Sandy Walsh]

I can't make Thursday, someone please take good notes :)

-S

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

CHANGE OF VENUE

Greetings All,

Sorry for the late notice. However, I am given to understand that the Starbucks is closed, so we will be moving the meeting to the recently opened Halifax Central Library:

5440 Spring Garden Road

Room 201

The meeting time is unchanged.

I hope to see you there!

[Shawn Wilson]

Ben Heck's pinball project: Bill Paxton pinball

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakersp...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxm...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/halifaxmakerspace.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

[Shawn Wilson]

Whoops, Ben Heck's project: Bill Paxton Pinball

http://www.benheck.com/bill-paxton-pinball-making-of/

"Game over, man!"

[Ryan Neily]

How did the meeting go? I was remiss checking my email and yes, Starbucks was open, I was there. Is the pinball project going forward? If so, was there any decisions made?

Ryan

[Chris McDonald]

Hey Ryan, 

Sorry none of us go back to you until now. We did have the meeting and followed up with a visit to John's house to see his machines and parts. Peter will be announcing the next meeting shortly.

We had a great discussion at the meeting. We kinda have a rough plan on where we are going with the project. 

John Greatwich has offered us help and lots of old parts to work with. He has also connected us with a friend who can sell us an old cabinet to refinish. He has a pinball social in his basement every Saturday so I'm sure we will be going there again soon. 

On the electronics side we are strongly leaning towards something Arduino based with an off the shelf solenoid driver board. 

The two options I've seen so far for driver boards are:

http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/index.php/products/driver-boards/power-driver-16

http://www.allteksystems.com/products-mpu-replacements.html#solenoid

On the input side I'm thinking we should use a number of shift registers or serial encoder board distributed across the bottom of the play field to reduce the amount of wire. 

Something like:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11733

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8130

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11502

For the price of the last two we could just use an arduino pro mini boards and program them to the exact behavior we want. 

For lighting we are looking at using lots of neopixles. They are addressable RGB LEDs that just chain together with 3 wires. I'm thinking we could do some traditional lamps as well.

We haven't talked too much about sound yet. I'm thinking an Raspberry Pi would make a very powerful sound module. Lots of other options. If someone wanted to, an arduino could do it with 8bit authenticity.  

Lots of stuff to think about.

--

Chris McDonald

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Greetings All,

Ok, so the first blog post is up: http://halifaxmakerspace.org/uncategorized/hal-con-2015-pinball-project-kickoff/

And I've started the wiki page: http://wiki.halifaxmakerspace.org/doku.php?id=hal-con_2015_pinball_project

The next meeting will be held at the Discovery Centre (1593 Barrington Street) on Thursday the 22nd from 6:30 to 8:30. This meeting will be devoted to brainstorming about the design and gameplay.

Hope to see you all there.

Peter.

[Dylan Fish]

Hey Peter!

I hope you enjoyed your Winter holidays!  If you're pinball machine is a go, you are of course more than welcome to use the leftover LED arrays should you decide to incorporate them into your pinball machine!

Also, Does the makerspace have a new location?

Cheers,

Dylan

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Greetings Dylan,

I'm sure we could find a use for those LED displays. Thanks!

Also, we don't have an official space yet. We do have a good lead that we are working with. Watch this space...

Peter.

[Chris McDonald]

I just reviewed the wiki document, a few things to add/comment on:

The power driver 16 comes in a master version which dosn't use RS485 on the input. It still uses SPI but SPI pins can be shared, you just need dedicated chip select/enable lines for each device. Also the mega has 4 USARTs that can be configured to do SPI for a total of 5 SPI interfaces. I'm not sure if Ardunio has support for these built in but its not hard to create a lib to access them.

This machine has RGB LEDs throughout:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08sWAVVWX3o

I'm thinking we should avoid the traditional input matrix because of its complexity and just the shear amount of wire required. I'm thinking 4 arduino pro mini(atmega 328) on an SPI bus with dedicated interrupt and chip select lines to each. Each would be programmed to interrupt on any of the 16 or so inputs, store which pins were low in the SPI output regsister and strobe the interrupt line. Then when the master gets the interrupt line it selects that chip and reads in the byte containing the trigger hit. There are several ways to reduce the wires, like a shared interrupt line and daisy chaining the SPI. It will add some latency but not a whole lot at 8Mhz. The real question in my mind is how much latency is acceptable between the switch being hit and the coil energizing. We could make much nicer and easier to understand bus protocols if time isn't an issue. 

I just ordered this lot of 10:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-10PCS-LOT-Pro-Mini-Atmega328-5v-16MHz-For-Arduino-Compatible-nano-uno/1735348583.html

At that price a few of them could also offload lighting from the main processor and share the same SPI bus. If we use neopixels this will be required due to interrupts being disabled during updates. 

I have a mega on hand and another one on the way:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Freeshipping-Mega-2560-R3-Mega2560-REV3-ATmega2560-16AU-Board-USB-Cable-compatible-for-arduino-good-quality/1304207708.html

Consider these parts a donation to the project. We don't have to use them. My thoughts are at those prices why the hell not have them on hand. I also now have a large kit of dupont and JST connectors that will be open for the project. 

After paying machines at John's and watching videos on youtube. Its become apparent that sound is an important part of the experience. There are two parts, a general music that pays throughout and a soundboard that reacts to different events in the game. 

I'm thinking the music should be 8bit arcade style. Are there any 8bit musicians/composers in the city that might be interested in supplying a peice? It would be really neat if it could be created on an arduino. 

I'm thinking the soundboard would be cool if it was all kinds of halcon references. Maybe something a little more high-fi on the back end of this, like a RPI into some quality computer speakers.  

Scoreboard ideas? We have talked so far about LED Matrix, Nixie tubes and mechanical displays. 

Nixie tubes may not be out of the question. We could re-purpose something like:

http://store.tubeclock.com/index.php/nixie-tube-clocks/clocks

A split flap design could be really neat. I think I would loose the ball watching the score flip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQdiGxEqky4

Then there are dead simple options like these digits:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-5V-74HC595-1-Digit-Red-LED-Display-Module-7-Segment-Digital-display-For-Arduino-MCU/32222872060.html

Just some of the many random thoughts going through my head. 

--

Chris McDonald

[Sandy Walsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO9YlUd2AkA

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

I can't find anything describing the master version of the power driver 16 actually using SPI (i.e. respecting a slave select and using a clock). My impression is that they accept an 8MHz signal and they are getting it by 'misusing' an arduino's MOSI pin. I could be wrong. But the (very thin) specification for the master board:

http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/docs/Driver_Board_specs/Master_Driver_Board_LLD.pdf

seems to suggest a single 3.3v input (2nd page, J8, pin 1).

Do you happen to know the maximum transmission distance of the SPI spec?

I do like your distributed microcontrollers idea. I'd take it a step farther though. Design and build an arduino shield with a few solenoid drivers, and some kind of multimaster differential serial bus (like SAE-J1708). The spec allows for 20 nodes on a single 40m bus. Each arduino could control a small number of features locally. For example, a single arduino with three inputs driving three solenoids could control a set of pop bumpers. Each bumper has a switch and a solenoid. The local arduino tracks which maps to which. When it detects a strike, it can immediately trigger the appropriate solenoid and send a message up the bus to the mothership for scoring. Likewise the mothership can send instructions to the individual arduinos to disable for example when a "tilt" is detected.

Cheers,

Peter.

[Chris McDonald]

Right you are, they are just sending out async serial using the sync serial hardware. 

SPI isn't really a standard so there isn't a spec for max distance. It really depends on the transmission line connecting the stations. Using good cable with proper termination we shouldn't have a problem going the 15 feet it might take to snake through the machine. Cat5 might even work fine with 110 ohm termination at the end. I haven't had much luck going more than a foot with random wire at 8Mhz. Dropping the clock rate will make things easier. We don't really need 8Mhz, going down to something like 250khz will make the wiring less critical. 

Multi-master networks are a bit of a pain to implement because you need to do collision avoidance and have some sort of system to detect and re-transmit if there is a collision. The simplest is just to go with a single master, where the slaves only transmit when spoken to. The master would just poll each of the slaves for events. They could all be listening for game state commands like global enable and disable for start and end of game. The master would not have to even be the destination for the data, it just controls who speaks when. 

Also dropping the clock rate is a good idea to reduce the frequency of interrupts on the slaves. The slaves need to interrupt for every byte received so at 8Mhz every 16 clock cycles there could be an interrupt. There is a danger that data could be missed if a slave was busy servicing a higher interrupt or if the ISR was too long. By lowering the clock rate it gives the slaves more time to service the interrupts between bytes. 

The neopixel controllers would have to have a signal line to signal they are available to take data like we did for the infinity mirror project. 

Lots of stuff to thinking about...

--

Chris McDonald

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

This is a reminder that tomorrow is our brainstorming meeting which will be at the Discovery Centre (1593 Barrington Street) from 6:30 to 8:30. I've invited some Hal-Con people as well:

Shawn Kehoe is the fearless leader of the Hal-Con Gaming Team. If it games, Shawn knows about it.

Brian Crocker is a member of the Gaming Team who knows everything there is to know about games requiring an electrical socket.

Travis Whalen is Hal-Con's Director of Design. If it says Hal-Con on it, Travis probably designed it.

In the event that you arrive late, and the doors are locked, please phone me: 902-240-2984 and someone will let you in.

Cheers!

[Shawn Wilson]

I'm getting over pneumonia and can't make it, but I'm hoping someone will take good notes and share them. :)

--

[Adam Cox]

If we're looking for a lot of LEDs on a display...

32x32 RGB grid

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12584

On Thursday, January 22, 2015 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-4, Shawn Wilson wrote:

I'm getting over pneumonia and can't make it, but I'm hoping someone will take good notes and share them. :)

On Jan 21, 2015 4:32 PM, "Peter-Frank Spierenburg" <spie...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is a reminder that tomorrow is our brainstorming meeting which will be at the Discovery Centre (1593 Barrington Street) from 6:30 to 8:30. I've invited some Hal-Con people as well:

Shawn Kehoe is the fearless leader of the Hal-Con Gaming Team. If it games, Shawn knows about it.

Brian Crocker is a member of the Gaming Team who knows everything there is to know about games requiring an electrical socket.

Travis Whalen is Hal-Con's Director of Design. If it says Hal-Con on it, Travis probably designed it.

In the event that you arrive late, and the doors are locked, please phone me: 902-240-2984 and someone will let you in.

Cheers!

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakerspace+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxmakerspace@googlegroups.com.

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Greetings All,

I had originally intended for last week's meeting to focus on some brainstorming about the thematic elements of the table. However the weather made it impossible for the Hal-Con people to make it, so we discussed the control electronics instead.

I'm hoping that we can reschedule our brainstorming meeting for next Thursday (February 5th). Same Bat-Time, same Bat-Channel (or 6:30-8:30pm at the Discovery Centre for those of you who have never heard of Adam West :).

I apologize for the weather-related confusion last week. The snow didn't start getting really bad until I was already on the road from work (I work in Hackett's Cove). So, to keep it simple, unless the Discovery Centre is closed for some reason (in which case you will hear from Chris McDonald or myself) the meeting will take place as scheduled. Make it if you can. If you are unable to make it please drop us a quick email.

Thank you, and I hope to see you all there.

Peter.

[Jordan Vallis]

If it helps anyone, a friend and I are each making a pinball machine as a side project. There is a 3D pinball machine designer and simulator found at http://www.futurepinball.com/. Just if you haven't seen it already. 

Also using this as a reference: https://howtobuildapinballmachine.wordpress.com/

[Shawn Wilson]

Pics!

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakersp...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxm...@googlegroups.com.

[Jordan Vallis]

Haha, sorry :) We're just getting going now. I received the email that the Halifax group was also working on a machine, so thought I'd try to share what I have and browse to see if there was anything I could glean as help. At this point I've only 3D modeled a basic table for figuring out placement, and we'll be designing the basics using Future Pinball. I want to Steampunk the table, so that program will of course only take us so far since I don't think I can throw nixie tubes on at that point. 

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

I just found this:

http://www.pinballnews.com/games/newcanasta/

Some interesting features include:

- Using hall-effect sensors to detect the presence of the ball instead of mechanical switches.

- The playfield is composed of an MDF base with the artwork printed on it and a layer of perspex on top making it insanely durable.

- It has a webcam.

Some not so intersting features:

- The computer monitor display looks kind of goofy. Like an arcade machine grafted onto a pinball table.

[Shawn Wilson]

Made a playfield rotisserie for Sunday.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakersp...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxm...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/halifaxmakerspace.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Shawn Wilson]

Instructable up for the rotisserie (it's a featured Instructable):

http://www.instructables.com/id/Pinball-Playfield-Rotisserie/

"Before" pictures of the cabinet up on the wiki:

http://wiki.halifaxmakerspace.org/doku.php?id=space_shuttle_cabinet

Some pictures of us working on the Globetrotters up on the wiki:

http://wiki.halifaxmakerspace.org/doku.php?id=hal-con_2015_pinball_project_images

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Stuff to bring for Sunday...

Anyone with logic-level MOSFETs that can handle 15A at 50V should bring some. I'd like to assemble one or two more shileds.

We're also looking for a hdmi/dvi capable flat screen monitor to use as a prototype. Let the group know if you can bring one. so we don't wind up with a pile of old monitors.

@MeEtc, you've got the wire and the TVS diodes we will need to build additional shields...

@Shawn, let me know what I should get to start the cabinet restoration...

Cheers.

Peter

[Shawn Wilson]

Hi Peter,

We'll need the following:

Sandpaper grits are approximate. 20 grit on either side is probably fine.  You might be able to get it all at Canadian Tire, but Home Depot should have better selection of the orange stuff.

• Packages of full sheets of sandpaper: ~100, ~220 and ~320 grit
  
• Packages of 5" round hook and loop (NOT sticky-backed) sandpaper for oscillating sanders (these have a bunch of small holes in the paper for dust collection): ~100, ~220 and ~320 grit
  
• Roll of shop towels (they're blue)
  
• small sheet of cloroplast (corrugated plastic, like political signs are made from), if possible and cheap.  Just for mixing the Bondo on.  We can make do with 
• spray cans of primer.  If we use 80 sq feet as the approx area to cover with one coat of primer (rough estimate, and I'm assuming we want the inside and outside of the cabinet and backbox).  I'm guessing that's about 8 cans, which seems excessive, but you might want to talk to someone in the paint department.  Chris, do you know better way (spray gun, etc.)?

• 1 quart Bondo (NOT Bondo Hair, which has long strands and is for rougher, larger repairs)
  
• An extra tube of cream hardener for Bondo, if possible (It sucks to run out of Bondo before hardener)
  
• Disposable applicators.  These are  usually cheap flexible rubbery plastic and come in different widths.  Also at Princess Auto and some Dollaramas.  I'll have putty knives in case you can't find these cheap.
  

I'm not sure what we're going to do about priming yet.  Chris, I assume we can't paint in that room?

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Awesome.

I'm looking at Bondo, and I'm seeing all kinds of options: 'body repair', 'all purpose', 'wood filler', and 'professional gold'. Let me know which one you want.

I don't imagine we will get to priming this week, so I'll hold off until we talk to Chris about feasibility. However, let me know what brand and variety of primer to get, and I will keep an eye out. I like to use filler primer on my model rockets because it does a great job of hiding the seams on body tubes and plastic nose cones. Is that what we want here?

Peter.

[Chris McDonald]

We have a paint booth where we can spray. I've got an old HVLP gun that might need some cleaning to get working and a smaller mason jar gun that also might need some fiddling. Spray bombs might be easier. 8 cans does seem like a lot, I would expect it to be more like 4 but I never get the right amount.

I also have a nice air powered sander that take 5" hook and loop disk. A few sanding blocks and so on. I might even be able to spare some of the consumables. 

Lots of corroplast scrap here in the shop. 

Some rags might not be a bad idea. Anyone got some old tee shirts? 

[Chris McDonald]

Hey Peter,

What are the part numbers for the MOSFET and Diodes currently used on the shield?

--

Chris

[Adam Smith]

I found the extra bag with the wire etc., I did indeed forget to bring it on Thursday. I also have ~10 IRF540N MOSFETs

[Adam Smith]

Oh, and I have a gateway brand monitor with DVI/HDMI and external power brick that I'll be donating.

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

The diodes are P6KE6.8CA transient voltage suppressors.

The MOSFETs are RFP30N06LE

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Also, does anyone have any 5.08mm pitch PCB mount screw terminals? We need three blocks of two or two blocks of three for each board.

[Shawn Wilson]

I've got a bunch of 2 and 3 block.   I measured them with a ruler and the pitch appears to be 5mm.

[Shawn Wilson]

Actually, I looked them up on DX, and they are, according to DX's specs, 5.00mm.  I suspect they would work.

http://www.dx.com/p/3-pin-screw-terminal-block-connectors-20-piece-pack-122491#.VPpaT_zF-So

The 2-post are from an unknown source, same pitch.

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

I am certain they would work.

[Chris McDonald]

The 50N06 Mosfets I have the same gate specs as the 30N06. The only difference is the max current rating. So they will work well. 

The suppression diodes are much more difficult to substitute. Regular diodes won't work and they are key in the voltage spike from the solenoid discharging not destroying the arduino and connected electronics. 

Could we steal the diodes off the prototype?

[Shawn Wilson]

What diodes are you looking for? I have several kits.

[Chris McDonald]

The P6KE6.8CA suppression diodes. Most any suppression diodes will work. What do you have?

[Shawn Wilson]

I'm out of my league here.  I don't know what constitutes a suppression diode.  I've got IN400_s, IN 5408 and this bunch of zener diodes:

http://www.dx.com/p/diy-1w-voltage-regulator-tubes-zener-diodes-230-piece-pack-133608#.VPtp0PzF-So

[Chris McDonald]

Hey Guys,

I'm running a little later than expected. I should be at John's by 9.

--

Chris

[Shawn Wilson]

I'm running a bit late. I should be in by 10 or 1030.

[Adam Smith]

Here's some videos from our March 1 session. These are raw video, not edited at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=434uO7jxjck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfv8HxaWlz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bobwzj0Nfno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb6bGHxGwY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBLcig7Mx2E

[Chris McDonald]

Hey Guys,

Just figured out the confusion on the threshold voltage. 2v is the minimum and 4v is the maximum. So we were both sorta right.

Most of the specs are given for V(gs) of 10V and current of 15A and greater so its difficult to say if heat may have been the issue. R(ds) is not given for loads under 10A or V(gs) under 10v so its impossible to calculate how much power is being disipated by the MOSFET under our conditions. We can test for it by simply wiring up an equivalent resistive load and measuring the voltage drop between the drain and source. 

Beyond that we need a storage scope to look at the voltage drop acrosss drain to source while firing the solenoid. Who had the USB scope?

--

Chris

--

[Chris McDonald]

On another look I was Actually looking at the datasheet for a slightly different version than peter has. The version peter is using actually has a threshold voltage min 1v, max 2v. It also has data for 5V operation and it all looks good. 

--

Chris

[Colin O'Flynn]

As a quick general question/derailment of the thread – would you want some VFD displays for this project? I’ve got two that look like this: http://www.newae.com/older/portfolio/stann/stann_VFD162S.jpeg

 

The VFD look is somewhat retro, so might fit with the pinball machine. I’ve probably got the pinout/interface somewhere, I think it’s just serial ASCII. Be aware they take a large current (like 1A@5V) and have a somewhat high voltage on them, so shouldn’t be easily touchable.

 

Not in a major rush so don’t need to figure it out now, but wanted to float the idea in case it worked with what you were doing.

 

Regards,

 

  -Colin O’Flynn

[Chris McDonald]

Another thing we can try is putting TVS diodes across the power supply. We will need some P6KE56A or P6KE62A TVS diodes. 

These guys had there LED-wiz frying from the coil discharge even though they had diodes across the coils. This might explain the MOSFET failing.

http://pinballchameleon.blogspot.ca/2013/02/the-modern-firepower-pinball-project_28.html

Currently the TVS diodes we have are absorbing back EMF spikes but there can also be spikes in the forward current. By putting TVS diodes that clamp on voltages above 48V it will protect everything from forward voltage spikes. 

--

Chris

[Shawn Wilson]

I have an oscilloscope with no probes. It's an old one, but last I checked, it powered up.  If that could be useful, let me know.

[Adam Smith]

I looked through that person's blog, and found a link to a gameplay video after it was completed. Very impressive. It uses a screen for the whole backbox without a lot of motion, and a seperate (LED?) display for scoring and notifications.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PcAHGrT3CU

[Shawn Wilson]

Here's a cool 10:1 lcd that's about 1" by 10" long.  I wonder if it might be used to get a video element down at the playfield level?  Not necessarily embedded in the playfield, but maybe along an edge, protected by a rail or bumpers, etc..

http://store.earthlcd.com/EarthLCD-10-4-1024100

Also, Video Games Live is playing at the Rebecca Cohn for the next 3 days.  It's a symphony orchestra playing video game themes synced to a video and special effects, and some other pre- and post-events.  I'm going tonight.

http://symphonynovascotia.ca/concerts-and-tickets/concerts/2014-2015/video-games-live/

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

I'm assuming LED-wiz is autocorrect for something. I just can't translate it back to English. :)

The purpose of the TVS diodes is to protect the MOSFET gates from electrostatic discharge, not back EMF. A TVS diode is basically a very fast acting zener that ensures that the gate never see's more that (in our case) about +6.8V relative to its source. The back EMF problem is supposed to be solved by the diodes soldered across the coil terminals. We may want to check those to ensure that none of them have failed 'open'.

My current working theory is what Chris was getting at on Sunday. I think that the failed MOSFETs were 'on' when I hit the download button and that during the programming phase, the arduino pins that controlled the gates went into the high-impedance state, and the gate charge was enough to keep the MOSFETs on for long enough to fry them.

Once I manage to verify this theory I'll try to build a programmable circuit breaker. I've got a relay and an arduino. I just need the means to measure current.

Peter.

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

First off, only the MOSFETs that were connected to the flippers have failed.

I tested some of the other MOSFETs on the board by turning them on, and then triggering a program cycle. The programming cycle clearly doesn't leave the MOSFETs on, which suggests that the working theory is incorrect.

[Chris McDonald]

The LED-wiz is a usb board for driving LED's from the 48V power. 

I'm suggesting that we add a TVS diode on the 48V side to clamp down on any spikes. The back EMF creates an e field spikes that the TVS diodes are there to protect against. The diodes across the coils are relatively slow compared to a TVS diode so some of the spike gets through on everything before the diode shorts it out. Honestly I hadn't seen your schematic so I was assuming the TVS diode was on the 48v side of the MOSFET to start with. I was really confused when I seen that it was a 6.8V TVS. But that really makes sense on the gate side. Protecting the 5V bus on the arduinos wouldn't be a bad idea either.

In most of my projects I use MOSFETS without needing an external TVS diodes and I'm yet to loose a MOSFET, but I don't have any big inductive loads like the solenoids. In your circuit the TVS diodes also are what allowing you to use such small gate resistors. I've had trouble with current coming back through the gate and frying the arduino, so that is why I typically use high value gate resistors and lower  PWM frequencies.  

Another possibility is that the diode on the coil failed and the full back EMF hit the MOSFET. Or they shorted and over current killed the MOSFET but the 7.5A max from the PSU shouldn't be enough to fry those MOSFETs. It might be that the voltage drops off and it sustains higher current than its rated for. 

It could be a case of one MOSFET firing killing the other one when it fires shortly after. Which is why we didn't have any others fail. 

Programming might still have had something to do with the fail. It may have been a 1 in 1000 chance of hitting the the button at the right time that it latched on somehow.  

I've got lots of scope probes so if Shawn brings his interface in we can capture the V and I wave forms and see what exactly is happening. Too many unknowns that we need to turn into knowns. 

 

--

[Adam Smith]

Maybe I'll see you there? I have front row seats with family and a VIP pass for myself.

[Shawn Wilson]

Cool. Not sure where we're sitting.  We are just Ps though. :)

On Mar 10, 2015 4:10 PM, "Adam Smith" <adam...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe I'll see you there? I have front row seats with family and a VIP pass for myself.

[Adam Smith]

I'm likely going to be late tomorrow evening, as I'm likely going to have to work late while in the valley. I will definitely show up at some point though. I have the chrome bit of the coin door detached and cleaned somewhat now, I'll bring it with me and it can be re-chromed whenever

[Shawn Wilson]

Just found out I can make it tomorrow.  I'll bring my oscilloscope.  Chris, you'll bring probes?  Was there anything else needed?

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Adam Smith <adam...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm likely going to be late tomorrow evening, as I'm likely going to have to work late while in the valley. I will definitely show up at some point though. I have the chrome bit of the coin door detached and cleaned somewhat now, I'll bring it with me and it can be re-chromed whenever

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakersp...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxm...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/halifaxmakerspace.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Adam Smith]

I have found some options for a power supply at RAE. They can order a 350W (what we have now), 450W or 600W power supply. Spec sheets are available for the 350 and 450, which are mostly the same. 350W for $197, 450W and 600W are both $221 each. Also has auxiliary 5V @300mA, power OK signal, remote on/off and remote voltage sense.
http://www.cotek.com.tw/upload/PDF/AK350.PDF
http://www.cotek.com.tw/upload/PDF/AK450.PDF

[Chris McDonald]

Looks really good but I don't see CSA anywhere in the datasheet. Did they say anything about CSA approval?

--

[Adam Smith]

Neither do I. Has UL and CE approvals.

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

So, I finally got the transistors from China, and they shipped me the wrong bloody ones. I wanted FQP30N06Ls and they sent me FQP30N06s! (The L turns out to be pretty critical because it specifies 5V gate drive.) Anyway, they are going back.

Also, some of you know already but we blew a couple of the FQP30N06L transistors that we had on flipper coil duty. The consensus at my office is that flipper coils with 2ohm resistance just drew way too much current for the mosfets and they 'sploded.

Anyway, I found a really neat design at:

http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Files_Section

which I have attached to this post.

Basically, Williams uses two very similar designs, one for low power solenoids (pop bumpers, drop targets, etc) based on a TIP102 NPN power darlington, and a second design for high power solenoids (i.e. flippers) which adds a TIP36C crazy-power PNP BJT in a weird Darlington-Skizlai frankenmonster configuration.

I figure that the TIP102s should be ok if we keep the current down to less than 5A or so (48 V/10 Ohm) and we will heat-sink the snot ouf of the TIP36Cs (Shawn, any chance we can reconstruct the cabinet out of sheet steel? Surely that won't be a shock hazard. ;).

Anyway, I'm going to run this plan past my work colleagues (I work with crazy-smart electrical engineers, how lucky am I?) and see what they say, and if there aren't any major problems, I'm going to order the following from Tayda:

	4700uF 50V 105C Radial Electrolytic Capacitor 19x40mm	Edit		$0.85		$4.25	Remove item
	6 Pin Male Plug-In Type Vertical Terminal Block 5mm 5EHDRC	Edit		$0.70		$7.00	Remove item
	6 Pin Female Plug-In Type Vertical Terminal Block 5mm 5ESDV	Edit		$0.90		$9.00	Remove item
	TIP36C TIP36 Power Transistor PNP 25A 100V	Edit		$0.91		$9.10	Remove item
	TIP102 Power Darlington Transistor	Edit		$0.55		$27.50	Remove item
	Heat Sink TO-247 8 Fins 25mm Aluminium Black	Edit		$0.48		$2.40	Remove item

and have it shipped here superfast.

Two questions:

Does anyone see any obvious flaws in this plan?

Can anyone think of other electrical things we should order from http://www.taydaelectronics.com/ that would be useful for the Pinball project.

Peter.

[Shawn Wilson]

We could do sheet steel, but we'd need to periodically spray it with water to keep the outside cool.

BTW, I fixed my sander.  There was a bearing totally packed with dust.  First time pressing out/in a bearing, taking one apart, etc.  For someone not mechanically-minded at all, quite a thrill. :)  Seems to be a common problem with that kind of sander.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Halifax Makerspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to halifaxmakersp...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to halifaxm...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/halifaxmakerspace.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Chris McDonald]

I'm here at the centre until 7 or 8 if anyone wants to come in and work on pinball or the laser.

After 5 txt or email me and I'll come down to let you in. 

--

Chris McDonald

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Can you measure the resistances on as many pinball coils you can find?

[Adam Cox]

I'm not going to be able to make it down today.

[Real O'Neil]

I'm way late, but only thought of it like now...If you guys want arcade buttons, I have quite a few of them I'd be willing to donate if needed.

[Chris McDonald]

The flipper coils are only 2.9ohms while the rest are 10.9 ohms. That could explain why the mosfets fused on.

[Chris McDonald]

At 48v 2.9 ohms is like 16.5A and 800watts. Its a wonder the PSU is taking it so well. It also explains why our flippers are alittle sluggish.  I would guess that the MOSFETs just got cooked from the current.  I think we may need a capacitor based circuit.

On a completely different topic. Has there ever been a pinball machine with the slope increasing as you go up the play field. I'm thinking we could laser cut 20"x12" sections and have the first one start at like 5 degrees and then the next would be 6 degrees and so on. It would make for a very modular build. We could also laser cut the pieces the playfield sits on and the side guides to match the angle. The joins between the panels may be too abrupt of an edge so this might not work at all but might be worth a try. 

--

Chris McDonald

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Can our laser cutter cut 1/2" ply?

[Shawn Wilson]

I'd put my money on the joins being to abrupt and the ball jumping around a lot, but it wouldn't be difficult to test.  I'd think the seams might be unsightly, though?

[Chris McDonald]

1/4" is the limit so I'm thinking 1/4" acrylic(plexiglas) backed with vinyl graphics and then 1/4" plywood backing all the mechanical stuff and masking out lighting shapes.  

The joins are a case if you can't hide it, feature it. That is kinda where this idea came from, I was trying to figure out how to make the play field doable in our lasers 12"x20" limits. If we can't hide the joins feature them. 

I'm thinking the real problem with this idea will be the acrylic chipping at the transition.  Coating the acrylic with epoxy or polyurethane might solve that and help smooth out the transition.

I've got laser cutter on the mind. Yesterday I cut a prototype for a discovery centre project, I did the whole thing from design to test in like 2 hours, drilling it by hand would of taken 2 days or more. DC will be compensating the makerspace for the tube hours. I have a feeling after seeing this thing in action my manager will be buying DC a big one for the new centre.

--

Chris McDonald

[Peter-Frank Spierenburg]

Another issue is that the playfield isn't 20" wide. I think it is something like 20.50". That will put a gap on the left side of the playfield (since the right side has to accomodate the shooter) that I am concerned would be unsightly, and a potential ball trap.

[Adam Smith]

Here's a photo from our thursday brainstorming. I also added an image of a blank playfield. I've printed out a few copies to do some doodling of my own.

[Evan d'Entremont]

can you add a 1/4" spacer on each side?

...

[Shawn Wilson]

Sweet!  Big Lebowski pinball prototype with a weird-looking "rug mode" (looks like some kind of roller), full-size White Russian and what looks like a physical bowling alley mini-game.

http://geekologie.com/2014/10/big-lebowski-pinball-machine-prototype-i.php

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 7:07 AM, Chris McDonald <lord...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Adam Smith]

I posted this earlier, but doesn't look like it posted properly. I managed to get Visual Pinball running with the Space Shuttle game. Most of the downloads are behind a registration wall and 5 per day download limit, so I'm rehosting most of the needed files.
You will need:

• Visual Pinball 9.9.1 (registration) or Visual Pinball 9.1.5 (what I'm using)
• PinMAME (registration) or rehosted
• VBS scripts (registration) or rehosted
• Space Shuttle table portrait or landscape (registration) or rehosted
• Space Shuttle ROM files (registration) or rehosted

1. Install Visual Pinball and PinMAME. PinMAME will install to whatever folder its extracted to, and doesn't have a typical installer.
2. Extract the VBS scripts to Visual Pinball\Tables
3. Extract the table files to Visual Pinball\Tables
4. Place the ROM zip in PinMAME\roms and don't extract it
5. Run Visual Pinball, load the table, click play
6. ?????
7. profit!

Controls are:
5 - insert credit
1 - start game
Enter - plunger
L Shift, R Shift - flippers
Z, / - nudge table