GRPC and QUIC or Aeron?

[Josh Humphries]

I'm curious if Google is using QUIC internally for things like Stubby already. Any info on potential roadmap for QUIC and GRPC? Or will QUIC need to go through standards body (a la SPDY -> HTTP/2) before support is likely?

I'm also curious if anyone has taken a look at Aeron as a possible transport layer.

I'm not expecting GRPC to support them anytime soon. Really just raising this as a question, to see if anyone's thought about it yet.

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Josh Humphries

Manager, Shared Systems  |  Platform Engineering

Atlanta, GA  |  678-400-4867

Square (www.squareup.com)

[Louis Ryan]

QUIC is not in use yet for GRPC but it is something we're actively looking at for Android. The Chromium networking stack supports QUIC today and several Google Apps on Android are using it to good effect. The benefits of HTTP2/QUIC vs HTTP2/TCP have not been evaluated yet for in-DC use and we're focused on getting the GRPC releases into GA quality before we take on more transports so I suspect we'll not get to that until Q3-ish.

I've personally looked at Aeron a little but haven't had time to do any detailed testing. It's clearly some great tech and I'd like to think we could get our Java-Netty HTTP2 stack close to what it claims to do in performance but the cross-platform interop story is not where we'd like it to be for broader support. Maybe Aeron would consider using QUIC which would bring us closer together. Fundamentally GRPC and Aeron are both flow-controlled message stream implementations so clearly we have a bunch of overlap.

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[Bruno Bowden]

The Android Apps using QUIC are currently using the C++ Chromium Stack? Can you give a sense of the priority or timeline on when a Java version of QUIC might be available?

[Louis Ryan]

I don't have anything firm to offer on either front. We're primarily interested in QUIC for mobile clients and Cronet (C++) may be the best way to get that on Android and iOS. For general server support our motivation is lower as there's still plenty to do to make GRPC+HTTP2+TCP seamless on the platforms we're currently targeting and we expect to get good performance from that stack. Also while we assume that we would benefit from QUIC/UDP in the DC I don't have any strong evidence for it yet and we may have to prototype to determine value.

Ideally I'd like to see one of the more popular proxy implementations like nginx/haproxy/nghttpx as this would probably be more valuable for the mobile use-case anyway.

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[Josh Humphries]

This all sounds good to me. Glad to hear I'm not the first to bring attention to it. Like I originally mentioned, I only raised the question because I was curious what people were thinking. Thanks, Louis!

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Josh Humphries

Manager, Shared Systems  |  Platform Engineering

Atlanta, GA  |  678-400-4867

Square (www.squareup.com)

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[Abdul Hakeem]

Hello,
I'm fillowing this thread to see if there is any update for gRPC over QUIC.
Any thoughts ?

[Louis Ryan]

We are working on making GRPC work with Cronet which would make mobile clients capable of speaking QUIC. 

No real concrete update though I would note that there are more QUIC implementations out there in the wild now. Google opensourced one and theres stuff like https://devsisters.github.io/goquic/

We'd still like to see frontend & backend support show up in common proxies like Nginx etc

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