GQRX For Blind Users

[grege...@gmail.com]

Hi Alex,

I've been trying to find a solution for making SDR more accessible for a blind ham friend of mine.  He uses Windows and Mac OS 10 computers.  I want to at least get him going with an RTL-SDR dongle to start.  Obviously, the spectrum display and waterfall would be of no use to him, but it would be nice if he could easily enter and modify settings for frequency, mode, bandwidth, RF gain and audio gain.  Most GUI software does not play well with screen readers.  That leaves command line options, which are cumbersome. 

Rather than trying to take software that was designed for sighted users, and finding a way for blind people to use it,  it would be great if there was an interface designed from the ground up for use by the blind.

In discussing this with my friend, what he would like would be a system where the Tab key stepped the program through a loop of voice prompts for Enter Frequency, Enter Mode, Enter Bandwidth, etc. Another important feature, especially with the cheaper dongles, would be a fine tuning control which might use the left/right arrows or mouse movements.

I am not a programmer.  I am hoping that someone such as yourself or a developer, could strip the GUI and spectrum displays off of GQRX, and add a simple voice prompt interface and fine tuning control.

Thanks,

Greg Ella

AD0JP

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

OK, I am blind myself, GQRX will let you play with RF gane, you can also change freqs though it takes quite some time to tune the complete spectrum holding down the airo key. You can also play with the filters though you cant set them to various settings, you can only use the preset settings. the SDR setup itself is rather straight forward however the software is the tricky part, I am still trying to figure out other stuff on my end over hear thats software related.
I was surprised when I read the subjjject, LOL I thought it had something to do with my issue,however I am glad theres another person who is blind whos interested in SDR.
I might know your friend, the blind people seem to know one another do to several social networks.
Oh I also almost forgot the compressor though for what ever reason is 100 percent usable and the other stuff like the filters are only able to be used as far as the presets go, RF gane works great though.
I might be able to help with this, then again? maybe not.


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[Alexandru Csete]

Hi Greg,

I wish I had better time to work on issues like this, however, i
reality gqrx is just a spare time project for me. Actually just one
out of many.

As James mentioned, it is now possible to use the application using
voiceover (at least to some extent) since I added a frequency entry
field. He refers to this special build I made few weeks ago:
http://files.oz9aec.net/gqrx/Gqrx-2.6.84.dmg
For sure it is far from perfect but at least it makes usage possible
as I understand.

In the meanwhile I will take your ideas into consideration for the
user interface I am designing for what eventually may become the
successor of gqrx. That user interface will also support integration
with physical interfaces using knobs and buttons and I think that
could be useful for blind people.

Alex

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

Oh yes it makes it possible to tune, but its so slow, you can take about 15M to tune from 135Mhz to 162Mhz. Its really slow tuning.
I am wondering Alex, what other program are you working on? Would you like a voiceover tester to batatest it?

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[Dan Dart]

Has anyone thought about the increased accessibility of say, Ubuntu? I
hear that it sees more text inside GUI elements and doesn't see them
like a black box like some systems. There are a lot of built in
readers and input methods, and as most often the toolkits are open,
they are allegedly all readable.

Another option would be to find a piece of software that connects via
the same protocol.

Cheers

[grege...@gmail.com]

Hi Alex,

A physical interface with knobs and buttons that would work, for instance, with any radio supported by osmocom, would be perfect.  Let me know if you need a beta tester.

Greg Ella

AD0JP

[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Greg,

to take the pressure off Alex(!) I am just tinkering with something that might go someway to providing a solution using the Hamlib type interface that is built into gqrx.

Am I correct in assuming that voice over type software reads the tool tip or accessible name and then speaks what it reads?

Regards

Simon.

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[grege...@gmail.com]

Hi Simon,

I personally don't have any Mac hardware or the voice over tool.  James Clark in this thread may be of more help.

Greg

[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Greg/James,

Actually I did some investigation earlier and will try to use a new software add on to the Qt development environment called QtSpeech. This uses the OS underlying speech engine but will give me greater control.

I am thinking of a high contrast screen (for those partially sighted) where you tab between the following options:

+/- 100 MHz

+/- 10 MHz

+/- 1 MHz

+/- 100 kHz

+/- 10 kHz

+/- 100 Hz

Adjust bandwidth

Cycle round modes

Cycle round the ham bands

When tabbing onto an option the name of that option will be announced in speech. Using the cursor left/right key will cause the +/- action and after each press the resulting new frequency, mode etc. will be announced.

It's not too difficult but getting the QtSpeech part to work might be the hardest part as it is new.

Does this sound like something useful? If it isn't I won't pursue it any further.

Regards

Simon.

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[Alexandru Csete]

On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> to take the pressure off Alex(!) I am just tinkering with something that
> might go someway to providing a solution using the Hamlib type interface
> that is built into gqrx.

Simon, that would be great.
I thought of mentioning that as a possibility, just didn't want to
move the pressure over to others :-)

> Am I correct in assuming that voice over type software reads the tool tip or
> accessible name and then speaks what it reads?

So, far I have only used tooltips in gqrx and apparently that is
already some help. Accordign to the documentation, regular widgets
will have accessibleName and Description populated with e.g. button
text and and tooltip?

http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qwidget.html#accessibleName-prop

Alex

[James Clark]

Yes, voiceover will read what is on the screen, if you type it can read out the letters to you. It will read news articles and such to you as well, it works with the QuickTime graphical interface to 1° or another, if you take a look at how an application like garage band or audacity are built, those would be great examples of accessibility being implemented any program. If you need questions answered about voiceover, get a hold of me as that is how I operate my computer. I operate it with my keyboard only, I could use my mouse, I prefer my keyboard. Right now, I am using my iPhone and using dictation, I could type all of this out but it is very slow, and if things are misspelled that's why. Again get a hold of me if you need assistance with voiceover.

Sent from my iPhone

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[James Clark]

OK, it appears my last message did not go through to responding to this. Yes, I use voice over on a regular basis, right now I am using voice over on my phone. If you would like to see great examples of software that have voiceover implement it beautifully, look at the program Audacity. With voiceover, I tend to use my keyboard exclusively, I can use my mouse, but I prefer to use my keyboard as that is how I was taught on windows. On voiceover, it was always astounding to me that I could use my mouse, but I had always ended up using my keyboard because the Bluetooth mice will die relatively quickly. If you need questions answered about voiceover, get a hold of me and I will try to answer your questions. I hope this message will be a beautiful service, and I hope that I will be hearing from someone soon who may be able to help me, and I may be able to help them. All of you take care

Sent from my iPhone

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[Simon Kennedy]

I have the visually impaired user interface for gqrx working in principle. I need to add the section of code to change the mode and bandwidth (although I believe the bandwidth option has not yet been packaged for the ppa? I use gqrx via pybombs which gets the latest version from github) and I also need to add more error checking and sound. I suspect the sound is going to be the hardest but most interesting part but here's hoping it isn't.

I will need help on packaging this for deployment so I will reach out for assistance when I have completed the development.

Regards

Simon.

On 4 April 2017 at 22:26, James Clark <james.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK, it appears my last message did not go through to responding to this. Yes, I use voice over on a regular basis, right now I am using voice over on my phone. If you would like to see great examples of software that have voiceover implement it beautifully, look at the program Audacity. With voiceover, I tend to use my keyboard exclusively, I can use my mouse, but I prefer to use my keyboard as that is how I was taught on windows. On voiceover, it was always astounding to me that I could use my mouse, but I had always ended up using my keyboard because the Bluetooth mice will die relatively quickly. If you need questions answered about voiceover, get a hold of me and I will try to answer your questions. I hope this message will be a beautiful service, and I hope that I will be hearing from someone soon who may be able to help me, and I may be able to help them. All of you take care

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 1:52 PM, Alexandru Csete <oz9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> to take the pressure off Alex(!) I am just tinkering with something that
>> might go someway to providing a solution using the Hamlib type interface
>> that is built into gqrx.
>
> Simon, that would be great.
> I thought of mentioning that as a possibility, just didn't want to
> move the pressure over to others :-)
>
>> Am I correct in assuming that voice over type software reads the tool tip or
>> accessible name and then speaks what it reads?
>
> So, far I have only used tooltips in gqrx and apparently that is
> already some help. Accordign to the documentation, regular widgets
> will have accessibleName and Description populated with e.g. button
> text and and tooltip?
>
> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qwidget.html#accessibleName-prop
>
> Alex
>
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[James Clark]

Hello Simon, I would imagine there would be no sound necessary except that of your software defined radio. Now I would be interested to help you out if you're willing when it comes time for you to release the package. One request, please release it as a.DM G file for the Macintosh. DM G files are so much easier to manage than that of tar .gz or.jar files. Thank you for putting forth the effort, and thank you for actually trying to get something off the ground. From my perspective it is very appreciated because as a blind person I don't see a lot of people with site actually wanting to help someone with blindness. Oh they say they want to help, but I never see the effort being put forth. I always see them trying to help me cross the street when I don't want to cross the street, row we see them trying to hold open doors for me when I'm very capable of holding the door open myself. The small things that make someone feel good and they can go home at night slept in his house in the back and say I hope the blind person today. No, I'm seeing you actually put forth a lot of work and effort, and if this actually does come to pass I will appreciate it. However I hope you're not like other developers who say they want to assess, and then they don't actually pull their own weight,  well it will be nothing new. I'm used to big corporations like fender pulling the same kind of deal.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Simon Kennedy]

Hi James,

I was going to add the sound as a feedback mechanism. This will enable you to know what control you have selected, i.e. to jump between preset ham bands or to change frequency by 1 kHz or 1 MHz etc.

I understand that ease of installation is crucial and will be asking for help from others on this list to help build the packages in formats like DMG.

Regards

Simon.

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[Alexandru Csete]

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:
> I have the visually impaired user interface for gqrx working in principle. I
> need to add the section of code to change the mode and bandwidth (although I
> believe the bandwidth option has not yet been packaged for the ppa?

That's true, see the news.txt:
https://github.com/csete/gqrx/blob/master/resources/news.txt

However, the unofficial binary I made to James was based on the master branch.

Alex

[grege...@gmail.com]

Hi Simon, that does sound very useful.

Greg

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

I had not thought of the sound feedback, it might be useful for some blind people, I know manufactures have put different tones and such in their products and once I learn how to work those I turn them off.
Thats actually a good idea though ive not thought about the sound feedback.
This sounds like an interesting project, keep me posted.

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[Simon Kennedy]

I've got the sound working this evening. I am on my third choice of sound interface. QtSpeech doesn't work, I can't get the example app to work. Pyttx sort of worked but not well enough and isn't being maintained so now I am using e-speak. This works well but the OSX integration doesn't look as good as the two previous options.

Still very much a work in progress but progressing well.

Simon.

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

Hmm, you said E-speak? You know why thats not working to well? Thats a windows screen reading software, I think voiceover voices would be smoother sense there already intigrated in with the mac.
This might help though I don’t know.
https://www.cbtbc.org/tools/asvo/

This might be useful to.
http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/accessibility/2015-March/000072.html

https://developer.apple.com/accessibility/macos/



https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/




Try googling coco voiceover mac, and you’ll come up with some of that information and more, and also QT mac Voiceover.
Hope this helps somehow, when it comes to this sort of stuff I don’t know to much.

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[Simon Kennedy]

Update: I want to use the QT Speech module as this is platform independent and will use the native speech engine of the operating system in use. However, as it is brand new the Python libraries that support QT functionality do not support QT speech. Consequently I have changed to writing this in C++ which means I am building it within the QT environment. In the long term this will undoubtedly be a good move.

Tonight I have got a basic program producing speech in response to changes in the GUI. The user interface is the the same so there is now quite a lot of copy, paste, convert to C++ syntax to do.

Simon.

[James Clark]

Yes, that is a good move but will it work with an actual screen reader software? It might be able to have some speech prompts, and that's good but what about actually implementing with a screen reader as well as your speech promps. That might be problematic but I don't know. I am not a developer, but I do know a little bit about the basics of the screen reader. I've played with Google's screen reader, for example it works but it requires to use your computer's voice that's already on the system. It has its own speech promps but you cannot use your own screen reader with it. When you do try to do that, it goes nuts and freezes and it just completely dies out. I don't know how Google has there's designed, but I'm hoping that your software does not fall prey to that issue. I don't know how they have that set up, by the sound of it it sounds like you at least have a basic if not a very well thought out idea. Keep me posted, and I will help where I can.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Simon Kennedy]

Hi James,

I get your point. When we test it properly we will have to see if they play nicely together.

Simon.

On 10 Apr 2017 23:47, "James Clark" <james.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, that is a good move but will it work with an actual screen reader software? It might be able to have some speech prompts, and that's good but what about actually implementing with a screen reader as well as your speech promps. That might be problematic but I don't know. I am not a developer, but I do know a little bit about the basics of the screen reader. I've played with Google's screen reader, for example it works but it requires to use your computer's voice that's already on the system. It has its own speech promps but you cannot use your own screen reader with it. When you do try to do that, it goes nuts and freezes and it just completely dies out. I don't know how Google has there's designed, but I'm hoping that your software does not fall prey to that issue. I don't know how they have that set up, by the sound of it it sounds like you at least have a basic if not a very well thought out idea. Keep me posted, and I will help where I can.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2017, at 6:17 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:

Update: I want to use the QT Speech module as this is platform independent and will use the native speech engine of the operating system in use. However, as it is brand new the Python libraries that support QT functionality do not support QT speech. Consequently I have changed to writing this in C++ which means I am building it within the QT environment. In the long term this will undoubtedly be a good move.

Tonight I have got a basic program producing speech in response to changes in the GUI. The user interface is the the same so there is now quite a lot of copy, paste, convert to C++ syntax to do.

Simon.

On 6 Apr 2017 23:27, "James Clark - KC3CDV" <james.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hmm, you said E-speak? You know why thats not working to well? Thats a windows screen reading software, I think voiceover voices would be smoother sense there already intigrated in with the mac.
This might help though I don’t know.
 https://www.cbtbc.org/tools/asvo/

 This might be useful to.
 http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/accessibility/2015-March/000072.html

https://developer.apple.com/accessibility/macos/



 https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/




   

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[James Clark]

Is there a way you could get the actual package that Alex made for me. This way you would already have the basic foundation to go off of. It's just an idea as I'm not really technical when it comes to coding. I'll be willing to help when and where I can. If you want someone to test this on the Mac platform with an actual screen reader when it comes time to put in a.DM G file, get a hold of me and I will definitely test it for you.

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[grege...@gmail.com]

Last night I got together with my friend and his OSX laptop.  This is the first time I have actually watched him interact with a computer.  He has been blind since birth, is a musician, and does music and sound editing on computers.  He downloaded and installed the modified GQRX a few days ago and has been familiarizing himself with it, but without any SDR hardware.  Last night I lent him an RTL dongle and an antenna.  Within about 30 minutes he was comfortably navigating around the interface and entering frequency, mode and RF gain.  Once he gets hooked, I'm going to steer him towards an AirSpy Mini so that he doesn't have to worry so much about frequency correction and drift.  We are still looking forward to something designed specifically for the blind, but in the mean time he is up and running.

Greg Ella
AD0JP

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 10:25:08 AM UTC-6, James Clark wrote:

Is there a way you could get the actual package that Alex made for me. This way you would already have the basic foundation to go off of. It's just an idea as I'm not really technical when it comes to coding. I'll be willing to help when and where I can. If you want someone to test this on the Mac platform with an actual screen reader when it comes time to put in a.DM G file, get a hold of me and I will definitely test it for you.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2017, at 6:57 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:

Hi James,

I get your point. When we test it properly we will have to see if they play nicely together.

Simon.

On 10 Apr 2017 23:47, "James Clark" <james.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, that is a good move but will it work with an actual screen reader software? It might be able to have some speech prompts, and that's good but what about actually implementing with a screen reader as well as your speech promps. That might be problematic but I don't know. I am not a developer, but I do know a little bit about the basics of the screen reader. I've played with Google's screen reader, for example it works but it requires to use your computer's voice that's already on the system. It has its own speech promps but you cannot use your own screen reader with it. When you do try to do that, it goes nuts and freezes and it just completely dies out. I don't know how Google has there's designed, but I'm hoping that your software does not fall prey to that issue. I don't know how they have that set up, by the sound of it it sounds like you at least have a basic if not a very well thought out idea. Keep me posted, and I will help where I can.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2017, at 6:17 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:

Update: I want to use the QT Speech module as this is platform independent and will use the native speech engine of the operating system in use. However, as it is brand new the Python libraries that support QT functionality do not support QT speech. Consequently I have changed to writing this in C++ which means I am building it within the QT environment. In the long term this will undoubtedly be a good move.

Tonight I have got a basic program producing speech in response to changes in the GUI. The user interface is the the same so there is now quite a lot of copy, paste, convert to C++ syntax to do.

Simon.

On 6 Apr 2017 23:27, "James Clark - KC3CDV" <james.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hmm, you said E-speak? You know why thats not working to well? Thats a windows screen reading software, I think voiceover voices would be smoother sense there already intigrated in with the mac.
This might help though I don’t know.
 https://www.cbtbc.org/tools/asvo/

 This might be useful to.
 http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/accessibility/2015-March/000072.html

https://developer.apple.com/accessibility/macos/



 https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/




   

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[Alexandru Csete]

Simon,

If you write your application in C++ and only depend on Qt, then
bundling it for Mac OS X will be easy :-)

Alex

[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Greg,

that's interesting to hear. This morning I decided on a slight change of approach to the program I am writing which I think will make it easier to use. Taking James's input into account I acknowledge that the program must have the flexibility to work with a screen reader. I think my new approach will make this integration easier. I am testing this using the Orca screen reader installed on xubuntu. However, I believe that by using the screen reader software and augmenting it with sound feedback from my program will improve the overall experience.

It's a learning experience for us all and I am sure I will need to make changes based on the feedback from your friend and James and others.

Regards

Simon.

[Simon Kennedy]

That's good to hear Alex, currently that is my approach even though C++ and Qt are driving me slowly mad!

[James Clark]

Hey that's awesome, you know I have one of those RTL blog radios, and I never experienced drift in mine. It also has a temperature controlled circuit in it and yes, it does get quite warm but it never gets hot. What I have runs about $25. There are also no drivers required on a Macintosh platform. Asked to designing something specifically for the blind, I think that's a really good idea, but I think if you design something specifically for the blind if you really wanted to be conscientious about processing and stuff, you could completely remove things like graphics and things like that, because as a blind person we won't need graphics and stuff. That's awesome that it actually works on a platform, do you happen to know which screen reading software he was using? So when this guy was entering frequencies, was he entering them in megahertz, or kilohertz? Hopefully I'm not missing anything on my iPhone, I may want to get into checking these on the computer.

Sent from my iPhone

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[grege...@gmail.com]

He uses a screen reader that is native to OSX.  He says that it works better for him than the screen reader in Windows.  We were entering frequencies in KiloHertz.

Greg

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

I just realised how much Ive ben missing on the phone, OK, so he is using voiceover, your farther ahead with this than I thought.
This is great news.
This will be interesting to see how this plays out.

May Peace Be With You. Active skywarn severe weather spotter and Community Collaborative Rain, Hail & Snow Network operative.
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[Kevin Utter]

Hi all!  I’m Greg’s friend that he’s trying to get hooked on SDR.  I’m currently using Gqrx v2.6-84-g4a66a03 - rtl=0.  I believe it is the specially modified version.  Since there’s a lot of discussion about how the interface might work, I thought I’d chime in.  

As far as tones or sounds, that’s a good idea, however, as we’re using a computer rather than an actual receiver, I’d like to suggest that first we might look for ways to identify that buttons are checked or not, or that radio buttons are selected or not.  Traditionally, this is done by the screen reader, which identifies those elements and their condition.  When those elements are standardized, or their type and condition are relayed to the underlying screen info, the screen reader can automatically identify them.  This would save one having to program their own special output of speech or sound for feedback.  If one wanted to produce an adapted specialized version, these output optional tones and signals would be fine, but then you’ve got two separate applications to develop, which is going to take a whole lot more work for those involved.

As far as Mac is concerned, they offer a lot of info about how to make things accessible.  However, I realize that you’re working on several different platforms.  Although the screen readers are different, all of them work in a similar way, e.g., identifying elements and their conditions, whether it be buttons, check boxes, text entry, steppers, etc, then allowing you to manipulate them via the keyboard.  I also can’t tell you specifics, but some of the functionality we’re talking about is already done by the screen reader, as long as the screen elements are recognized by it.  If Java is being used, it has its own accessibility routines built in, which most screen readers can use.  I can’t say about other languages, but  think we’re mostly on the same page here by adjusting the interface and screen elements to be more standard things that most screen readers will recognize.  

The idea of adjusting the individual digits of the frequency display is excellent, and I understand its already implemented in the program.  If one could use the left and right arrows to move between the digits, and the up and down arrows to change them, that would be quite logical, and if done with the appropriate accessibility routines in place, digits will be read, and the beginning or end of the digits is identified so you know you can’t go further right or left.  

In this version, some things can be clicked via the VoiceOver controls, and others have to be done with the mouse.  VoiceOver does have some control over the mouse, and can be used to move and click some elements, but the consistency and simplicity of being able to use standard keyboard commands, or at least to focus properly on a control so the screen reader can activate it would be helpful.  

Please know these aren’t criticisms, but are offered to hopefully help guide any further development.  I very much appreciate what’s being done in this area, and will be glad to help by at least bata-testing in the Mac or Windows platforms when needed.  I hope this discussion wasn’t either too elementary or complicated for those of you involved in the development, and I apologize to everyone else for its length.  If it brings up questions or specifics which might require more discussion than the list needs, I’m willing to be contacted directly as well. Thanks again, and I’m looking forward to exploring more of the airwaves with what looks like a great package.

Kevin

[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your email, I am very glad for your input. I will read and digest it fully tomorrow as I am just going to bed now. 

In summary, I have the interface to gqrx nearly complete. One piece of functionality I wanted to include has been driving me nuts until this morning and now I think I have fixed it.

Fundamentally my program will allow you to use Tab and shift tab to move between the frequency digits and cursor up and down to change the frequency. I have also included shortcuts to jump to all the ham radio bands from top band to seventy centimetres.

I know it won't be perfect first time and feedback from people like yourself will be essential.

Regards

Simon.

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[James Clark - KC3CDV]

This should be interesting to see how it works.
Though shift and tab to change freqs, thats going to be different, hey what ever works.

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[Simon Kennedy]

I've got it all working but now I need to work out how to package it. As I don't have a Mac I'll need someone with experience of Qt apps and a Mac to volunteer but I should be able to do the Windows and Linux versions myself.

Simon.

On 26 Apr 2017 2:07 pm, "James Clark - KC3CDV" <james.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

This should be interesting to see how it works.
 Though shift and tab to change freqs, thats going to be different, hey what ever works.
May Peace Be With You.  Active skywarn severe weather spotter and Community Collaborative Rain, Hail & Snow Network operative.
@HomefrontHugs  Volunteer for our Troops and Families

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 18:31, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Thanks for your email, I am very glad for your input. I will read and digest it fully tomorrow as I am just going to bed now.
>
> In summary, I have the interface to gqrx nearly complete. One piece of functionality I wanted to include has been driving me nuts until this morning and now I think I have fixed it.
>
> Fundamentally my program will allow you to use Tab and shift tab to move between the frequency digits and cursor up and down to change the frequency. I have also included shortcuts to jump to all the ham radio bands from top band to seventy centimetres.
>
> I know it won't be perfect first time and feedback from people like yourself will be essential.
>
> Regards
> Simon.
>
> On 23 Apr 2017 22:21, "Kevin Utter" <kevin.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all!  I’m Greg’s friend that he’s trying to get hooked on SDR.  I’m currently using Gqrx v2.6-84-g4a66a03 - rtl=0.  I believe it is the specially modified version.  Since there’s a lot of discussion about how the interface might work, I thought I’d chime in.
>
> As far as tones or sounds, that’s a good idea, however, as we’re using a computer rather than an actual receiver, I’d like to suggest that first we might look for ways to identify that buttons are checked or not, or that radio buttons are selected or not.  Traditionally, this is done by the screen reader, which identifies those elements and their condition.  When those elements are standardized, or their type and condition are relayed to the underlying screen info, the screen reader can automatically identify them.  This would save one having to program their own special output of speech or sound for feedback.  If one wanted to produce an adapted specialized version, these output optional tones and signals would be fine, but then you’ve got two separate applications to develop, which is going to take a whole lot more work for those involved.
>
> As far as Mac is concerned, they offer a lot of info about how to make things accessible.  However, I realize that you’re working on several different platforms.  Although the screen readers are different, all of them work in a similar way, e.g., identifying elements and their conditions, whether it be buttons, check boxes, text entry, steppers, etc, then allowing you to manipulate them via the keyboard.  I also can’t tell you specifics, but some of the functionality we’re talking about is already done by the screen reader, as long as the screen elements are recognized by it.  If Java is being used, it has its own accessibility routines built in, which most screen readers can use.  I can’t say about other languages, but  think we’re mostly on the same page here by adjusting the interface and screen elements to be more standard things that most screen readers will recognize.
>
> The idea of adjusting the individual digits of the frequency display is excellent, and I understand its already implemented in the program.  If one could use the left and right arrows to move between the digits, and the up and down arrows to change them, that would be quite logical, and if done with the appropriate accessibility routines in place, digits will be read, and the beginning or end of the digits is identified so you know you can’t go further right or left.
>
> In this version, some things can be clicked via the VoiceOver controls, and others have to be done with the mouse.  VoiceOver does have some control over the mouse, and can be used to move and click some elements, but the consistency and simplicity of being able to use standard keyboard commands, or at least to focus properly on a control so the screen reader can activate it would be helpful.
>
> Please know these aren’t criticisms, but are offered to hopefully help guide any further development.  I very much appreciate what’s being done in this area, and will be glad to help by at least bata-testing in the Mac or Windows platforms when needed.  I hope this discussion wasn’t either too elementary or complicated for those of you involved in the development, and I apologize to everyone else for its length.  If it brings up questions or specifics which might require more discussion than the list needs, I’m willing to be contacted directly as well. Thanks again, and I’m looking forward to exploring more of the airwaves with what looks like a great package.
>
> Kevin
>
>
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[Alexandru Csete]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:
> I've got it all working but now I need to work out how to package it. As I
> don't have a Mac I'll need someone with experience of Qt apps and a Mac to
> volunteer but I should be able to do the Windows and Linux versions myself.

Hello Simon,

If it is a standalone Qt application written in C++, I can create an
app bundle for you :-)
Just point me to the sources.

Alex

[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Alex,

That's great. It's a standalone Qt 5.9, C++ application. I'll get it onto github over the weekend and send you a link.

Simon.

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[Alexandru Csete]

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> That's great. It's a standalone Qt 5.9, C++ application. I'll get it onto
> github over the weekend and send you a link.

Note that Qt 5.9 is still beta, so you should probably check that it
also compiles with 5.8.
I think the current LTS is 5.6, in case you want to support that.

Alex

[Simon Kennedy]

The Qt Speech module is only available in 5.9. I chose to use it because it is cross platform and the speech plugin operates with the native OS speech engine. I looked at a couple of other options but this looked the best going forwards.

Simon.

Alex

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[Alexandru Csete]

Ok Simon, no problem (at least not for Mac).

Alex

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:59 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info> wrote:
> The Qt Speech module is only available in 5.9. I chose to use it because it
> is cross platform and the speech plugin operates with the native OS speech
> engine. I looked at a couple of other options but this looked the best going
> forwards.
>
> Simon.
>
> On 26 Apr 2017 4:38 pm, "Alexandru Csete" <oz9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Simon Kennedy <si...@thekennedys.info>
> wrote:
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> That's great. It's a standalone Qt 5.9, C++ application. I'll get it onto
>> github over the weekend and send you a link.
>
> Note that Qt 5.9 is still beta, so you should probably check that it
> also compiles with 5.8.
> I think the current LTS is 5.6, in case you want to support that.
>
> Alex
>
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[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Alex,

I've completed this project to the point where I am happy for others to try it out (and I think it works).

On completing the version that used QtSpeech I found the the Orca screen reader software worked quite well, and using the feature within Qt to add a suffix with a spin box I have created this version that does not use QtSpeech. In light of the comments from James and Kevin this would seem to be their preferred approach.

The version I have put here: https://github.com/g0fcu/gqrxVI is built using Qt 5.8.

There are basically 4 different areas on the screen:

- a box that shows the current frequency gqrx is tuned to, that a screen reader should be able to speak.

- a spin box that allows quick selection of all ham bands from Top Band to 70cm. By default this tunes to the bottom of the band so the user has a known reference point that most hams know.

- a spin box that contains all the modes that gqrx supports (which is loaded by querying gqrx at start up so is future proof)

- spin boxes for frequency. Each frequency digit has its own spin box, from gigahertz to tens of hertz. Frequency rollover is implemented so moving from 9 to 0 will cause the higher frequency digit to increase by 1 and the opposite for going down in frequency.

- moving between all the selections is achieved by the Tab key or Shift-Tab to move backwards.

- changing the options is achieved by pressing the up or down cursor keys.

If you could create an app bundle that would be great.

Regards

Simon.

[Alexandru Csete]

Hi Simon and others,

I have built a Mac OS X bundle of your gqrxvi and made it available here:
http://files.oz9aec.net/gqrx/gqrxvi.dmg

I recommend you make a release tags so that you can make this and
future binaries available through github releases. I can not guarantee
continuing availability on my website.

Alex

[Simon Kennedy]

Thanks Alex, and I'll sort out the github release.

Simon.

Alex

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[Simon Kennedy]

I have put the OS-X version of the gqrx interface for blind or visually impaired users (which I have called gqrxvi) in github for download. This is a dmg file and the link is here.

Some information on this program:

This version expects the users own screen reader software to 'do the talking'. Control-X to exit,  Control-Y to synchronize the frequency between gqrx and this program (mainly used during debugging)

gqrx must be started with the 'Remote Control via TCP' button clicked and Port used is the default for gqrx

There are basically 4 different areas on the screen:

• a box that shows the current frequency gqrx is tuned to, that a screen reader should be able to speak.

• a spin box that allows quick selection of all ham bands from Top Band to 70cm. By default this tunes to the bottom of the band so the user has a known reference point that most hams know.

• a spin box that contains all the modes that gqrx supports (which is loaded by querying gqrx at start up so is future proof)

• spin boxes for frequency. Each frequency digit has its own spin box, from gigahertz to tens of hertz. Frequency rollover is implemented so moving from 9 to 0 will cause the higher frequency digit to increase by 1 and the opposite for going down in frequency.

• moving between all the selections is achieved by the Tab key or Shift-Tab to move backwards.

• changing the frequency or options in the spin boxes is achieved by pressing the up or down cursor keys.

Feedback appreciated.

Regards

Simon.

[Kevin Utter]

Hi all! The GQRXVI file installs and runs fine, once I figured out the connection process to GQRX. The explanation helped, but I couldn't see the exact settings for TCPIC there, but apparently I did the right thing. 

The frequency adjustment controls work quite well! I do get crashes in GQRXVI which I think are caused by tuning too fast, e.g., holding down an arrow key too long.

I haven't yet got the band and mode settings to work, but need to spend more time before making a valuable report. 

Overall, this looks like a very good beginning of a very workable interface. If at all possible, I would like to see a way of directly entering a frequency there as well, only to save switching back to GQRX to do it, so that all the frequency control is in one place. I thought I might be able to edit the frequency display in GQRXVI directly, but apparently that's not the intention at present. But, very nice job, and it certainly makes GQRX much easier Thank you for your work on this. I will add more when I've had more time to check further, but wanted to to give a quick first report on this nice addition! If there are specifics you'd like more input on, please let me know.

Kevin, N7GES

to use!

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[Simon Kennedy]

Thanks for the feedback Kevin. It will be easy for me to add direct frequency entry into the box that is there. 

Simon.

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

Thank you so much, I am downloading this now and will play with it in the morning and will let you know how it works hear in a few days.
I’ll also try to check this email for your notation.
I’ll keep you posted..

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@HomefrontHugs Volunteer for our Troops and Families

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[James Clark - KC3CDV]

after playing with the gqrxvi program, hear are my thoughts.
I like the fact I can tune through freqs quite quickly, but the modes and ham band boxes when clicked crash the gqrxvi program. The other problem I am running into for what ever reason is I cant recieve nothing using the program, interestling I see the freqs move and all that, the GQRX standard program just sets there, I even tried with the gqrxvi program to go to VHF broadcast FM and tune around there and no signal.
I know though the GQRX program on its on though lets me go and hear stuff.
The only way I can switch modes is via the GQRX program itself, so maybe thats a part of the problem.
Ive not tested with HF yet, but I really do like the progress, I know this came off rather well, umm not good, but I really do like what you’ve done hear, I was playing with it for hours just looking over the thing and its quite the slick program.
I think a good entering freqs box would be nice and maybe a way to see the waterfall but with a screen reader.
apparently my understanding on the waterfall is you guys can see visually what freqs are active, I would like if possible to do the same.
What you’ve done with gqrxvi though is a great improvement and for this I say thank you.



,

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[Simon Kennedy]

Hi James,

to get the gqrxvi program talking to and controlling gqrx you need to click the button on gqrx called 'Remote Control via TCP'. Assuming that you haven't changed any of the remote control setting then it should work. You also need to start gqrx receiving by clicking on the 'Start DSP' button.

Regards

Simon.

[Kevin Utter]

> Hi all! After further testing, I have these additional reports.
>
> For me, GQRXVI only seems to crash when I tune too quickly, e.g., holding down an arrow key for more than about 1.5 seconds. Otherwise, it seems to be stable.
>
> The mode select looks like it brings up the same dialogue as in GQRX. that dialogue doesn't seem to be keyboard navigable, but using keyboard commands to simulate the mouse will make it work.
>
> The band control also seems to be a dialogue similar to the mode dialogue, which also doesn't seem to respond to keyboard input, and must be activated by mouse simulation. I also can't see how to activate anything but the ham bands, but I need to re-read what the other option was supposed to do that I can't find.
>
> Other features I'd like to see in order of importance at some point: :)
> Direct frequency entry (already discussed).
> Accessible control of mode and band (previously discussed).
Either a scan function to save up and down arrow ware, or refinement so that holding arrows won’t overload and crash GQRXVI.
Possible modification to the prompts for the frequency fields, e.g., Hundred M, Ten M, one M, hundred K, ten K, one K, hundred H, Ten H, saving some speech time.
Addition of other controls such as squelch, RF gain, audio volume/gain, and filter width.
An accessible book mark feature.
>
> To James, make sure you've enabled remote control in GQRX before you run GQRXVI. This perhaps is why you're not getting any response from GQRX?
>
> As far as audible waterfall, I think that's going to be quite a complicated project, perhaps left for another experiment. A technique I would like to see tried, but which is still under experimentation, is sonography, where tones represent active pixels, and can indicate their brightness, hight, and left-right location. But this is perhaps much beyond the scope of these initial adaptations. It would, however, make a lot of spectrum searching and examination possible, and with a bit of practice, could be understood and used quite effectively. Anyone wanting more information that I can currently offer may want to contact me off list in order not to swamp the list too much. There is apparently some additional research being done local to me on this, which I have yet to check out, but some apps I've used in the past make me think this could be very useful.
>
> Again, thank you for your work on this already! It has made GQRX amazingly more useful than it was when I first tried it a couple weeks ago.
>
> 73.

Kevin, N7GES

[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Kevin,

thanks for the feedback. My responses are:

- tuning too quickly does not cause a crash on my Linux box. I could probably add some code to prevent you tuning too fast.

- the mode and band control selectors are both changed by the up or down cursor arrow button. However, my screen reader does not give any audio confirmation of a change. Is the problem lack of an audio confirmation or is the frequency/mode on gqrx not changing?

- I have only added ham bands into the bands control but other bands could be added easily

- I can change the prompts for the frequency fields, how about using the shortened version of gig for gigahertz and meg for megahertz, e.g. hundred meg?

- the features I can add are limited by those that are built into gqrx. I know that Alex would rather spend his time building the gqrx replacement than adding additional features to gqrx. I think the work that we are doing now will enable him to build the replacement with accessibility built in from the start.

- the other options that gqrx supports are: reporting and setting the squelch threshold and setting the passband (filter width), although I don't think the filter width option is in a released version yet. I can add these as options.

The bookmark accessibility feature may appear in another project I have just started collaborating on - watch this space.

Finally, the audible waterfall, I think that this is an ideal project for a final year computer science student or perhaps someone could use it to get their PhD!

Regards

Simon.

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

When I use the hambands or the modes it crashes, also Ive got it talking, that was not the problem, I think the freqs on mine read wrong or something, I know I got it talking because I can hear it switching.
When I tune buy the way it does not crash no matter how long I cold up or down keys.
The waterfall might be an interesting idea to try, and if not well thats fine.
I understand the reasoning behind that though.

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[Kevin Utter]

Hi Simon! You said:
- I can change the prompts for the frequency fields, how about using the shortened version of gig for gigahertz and meg for megahertz, e.g. hundred meg

>> ?

>> That would work. I think also the single letters gg, M, K, and H, with the number prefix could be fine too. Either way, it will shorten the prompt, which will make things even more efficient.
>>
>> As far as crashing while tuning, I'll check it again and see if its perhaps something else I'm doing.
>>
>> I'll check the bands and modes again. I didn't think the arrows were working, but will verify that and report back.
>>
>> Thanks again for all your work.
>>
>> Kevin, N7GES
>>
>>

[Kevin Utter]

> Hi Simon! I've had more time to test, and have found the following:
>
> The band and mode fields work fine using the up and down arrows. I'm still trying to determine the order in which the modes appear in the list. At present, I haven't found a way to determine the current mode setting within GQRX, although I can choose one there, but not as easily as in GQRXVI! Judging by sound, it sometimes seems like the order of modes changes from time to time, but this could be because there are similar modes, and one can't tell where you are in the list. Is there feedback from GQRX through the remote control where GQRXVI can get that info? If so, this would be very helpful.
>
> The band control, seems straight forward to understand, as the frequency can be seen within GQRXVI.
>
> Apparently crashes aren't being caused by tuning as I had originally thought, but I do have problems with crashes after changing modes or bands, then going back to change frequencies. Its not consistent, but fairly frequent.
>
> There are times when the frequency display in GQRXVI goes blank, and the synchronize command doesn't bring it back. So far, I've only found that quitting and restarting fixes it.
>
> Of the list of things I'd like to see in GQRXVI, I think the next, and perhaps most important thing, is probably a display of the current mode or decoder in use.
>
> Since we're dealing with two different programs here (GQRX and GQRXVI), should I address feedback separately for each regarding accessibility? If so, please let me know how I can best address this in order to minimize confusion. I have a few further comments about GQRX in this area, but thought I should address them separately as we've been dealing with GQRXVI in this thread for the most part. If there are other things I can help with, please let me know.
>
> Kevin, N7GES
>
> Thank you all for the work on the accessibility.
>
> Kevin
>
>

[Simon Kennedy]

Hi Kevin,

thanks for the feedback. 

I will add a box to show the currently selected mode so the screen reader can read it to you. I will put it after the mode selection so all you need to do is to tab from mode selection to the next field.

I will make the frequency field slightly different. I will add spaces between each digit, so the screen reader should read it like -  one, two three - rather than one hundred and twenty three. This makes more sense to me and should also make it quicker for you to get the current frequency.

I don't get any crashes on my Linux machine so don't know what might be causing those. I have tested the sync feature and some times I need to press it twice to get the sync to occur. Also, if the frequency display goes blank it might be because the gqrx frequency has been set to zero. I have seen this but cannot consistently replicate it. If this happens go to the bands selection box and select a band (say, forty meters) then sync.

If you want to raise accessibility issues with gqrx specifically then please start a new thread.

Regards

Simon.

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

Ive picked up something interesting, I can get the two softwares to communicate, but Ive seen this pop up. The freqs that GQRXVI is reading out seem to be incorrect and Ive also seen that when you go look at GQRX itself, the freqs not changing on there, but thats the only way you can change the modes because if you try that from the GQRXVI it crashes.
I am not sure what the deal is there.

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[Simon Kennedy]

Hi James,

I think I know what the problem is now. The current version of gqrx in the ppa archive does not support the command to return a list of valid modes (and I assume the OS-X version is based on the ppa version). Consequently, mode setting does not work.

Following Kevin's comments I now have a new version built which includes the ability to set the bandwidth but that feature is also not available in the ppa version.

@Alex, any chance of pushing the version that supports the "M ?" and "m <mode> [<passband>]" commands out to the ppa archive? :-)

I have tested on a clean install of Lubuntu 16.04.

Regards

Simon.

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[Alexandru Csete]

Sorry Simon, but the code in git HEAD has some bugs that need to be
fixed before any new release can be made, so no PPA update now.

Anyway, aren't people using Mac OS X? I have built a special DMG some
weeks ago, and I don't think any changes have been made to the remote
control interface since then.
http://files.oz9aec.net/gqrx/

Alex

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[Simon Kennedy]

Ok, no problem. I suspect the answer to James problem then is that he needs to upgrade to the latest OS-X release of gqrx.

Simon.

[James Clark - KC3CDV]

the freqs don’t change on GQRX Alex when using the one that Simon wrote.
they don’t wanna groove for what ever reason.
I can tell its changing freqs but they don’t seam to read out correctly, when moving the sliders on the one that Simon made I can see the numbers change on there but not on the actual GQRX software. accordingly if I put it on a freq using GQRX itself and then go to the remote thing that Simon made then the numbers don’t change there either if memory serves me correctly, its ben a few days sense Ive messed with it.
Anyway, thats my experience thus far, thanks again guys for all the hard work yall are doing.

OK, so the crash issue is solved then, it will take another release of GQRX then at some point rite?

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[James Clark - KC3CDV]

all rite, i’ll try downloading the latest GQRX and see what that does. thanks guys.

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> On May 25, 2017, at 19:30, Alexandru Csete <oz9...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

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[Simon Kennedy]

James, don't forget that you need to have the gqrx button called "Remote Control via TCP" checked. From what you describe it sounds like this isn't checked.

Simon.

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[James Clark - KC3CDV]

freqs arent sinked correctly for some reason, thats the problem.

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