Re: TOS question - may I add a dial button

[Alpha Scorpii]

strange, why this is forbidden in the first place? 

On Friday, January 18, 2013 3:49:38 PM UTC+8, Marc Heinken wrote:

I'm currently working on a CRM and help desk application where I wanted to add a dial button to easily call back customers by phone (PSTN).

Now paragraph 4.3(f) of the Terms of Service is forbidding to:

(f) use the Service to operate or enable any telecommunications service or in connection with any Application that allows End Users to place calls to or to receive calls from any public switched telephone network;

The dial button would just trigger an XHR call to the PBX that sets up the call between the user's and the customer's phones. The phone call does not touch appengine at all.

So would that dial button still be in violation of the Terms of Service?

[Alpha Scorpii]

Then what if I want to verify user's identity using a SMS / Phone call verification, that still violates the terms?

[Barry Hunter]

Probably to prevent competition to Google Voice?

Or maybe just there are strict regulations that appengine not willing engineer for?

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[Marc Heinken]

In earlier (around 2009) versions of the ToS that section reads like this:

You agree not to use the XMPP API to operate or to enable any telecommunications service or in connection with any applications that allow users to place calls to or receive calls from any public switched telephone network.

That seems reasonable to me. After all, looking at the heavy usage restrictions of the channel API, realtime-communication isn't the infrastructure's biggest forte and running a telephony system on top of XMPP could be considered misuse.

I don't think Google Voice is that big a profit center to justify such restrictions. Maybe it's some kind of regulation I don't know about. 

Does that section really disallow ANY type of interaction of an appengine hosted site with ANY other web based application that connects to the PSTN even if that interaction is only part of the client side HTML/Javascript code and does NOT happen inside appengine?

If so, would that include interacting with Google Voice? How about embedding a skype call button or a SIP-URL in my HTML?

[Sologoub]

What's weird is the story on app engine blog seems to contradict this:
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2012/12/developer-insights-mobile-voucher-sales.html

"URL Fetch API to link to third-party API’s such as sending SMS’s and integration to mobile networks for airtime voucher purchase"

This is exactly how one would work with Twilio/Troop/Plivo in order to send SMS or make calls. I've been focusing on App Engine without realizing such use cases are not welcome, but the REST APIs seem like such a good fit here.

Hope someone from GAE team can clarify.

[Kalle Pokki]

Perhaps the legal wording is there only because telecommunications operators may also be required to provide emergency calls, which probably cannot be guaranteed with enough certainty with app engine sitting in the middle of the system. And by providing access to PSTN you may be considered as a telecommunications operator.

I doubt google would try to stop the original poster from implementing the call back button.

[Gregory D'alesandre]

Hello All,

Please take my comment as a comment and not legal guidance as any legal guidance needs to come from your own legal counsel based on our terms of service.  But, that clause is in our ToS as App Engine is not built to be or regulated as a telecommunication service and as such anyone who would fall under telecommunication regulations would likely not pass an audit.  I know that sounded cryptic but I'm trying to be as precise as possible without telling you what to do :)

I hope that helps and I hope you'll understand if you want more clarification it might be hard to give,

Greg D'Alesandre

Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine

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