GAE vs. Google Wave Discontinue

[rapher]

Hi folks,

can it happen that Google suddenly will discontinue the Google App
Engine, like they announced for Google Wave yesterday?

Greets
rapher

[Harshal Patil]

Should that happen, I am doomed for sure. But frankly speaking, I don't see a reason Google doing this. 

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[Robin]

There's some mention of a three year notice period in their Terms of
service. See 10.2 on this page:

http://code.google.com/appengine/terms.html

But it doesn't sound like an absoluite requirement.

On Aug 5, 8:32 pm, Harshal <p.hars...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Should that happen, I am doomed for sure. But frankly speaking, I don't see
> a reason Google doing this.
>

> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 1:37 PM, rapher <heinrich.raph...@googlemail.com>wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
>
> > can it happen that Google suddenly will discontinue the Google App
> > Engine, like they announced for Google Wave yesterday?
>
> > Greets
> > rapher
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-a...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > google-appengi...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Jaroslav Záruba]

I'm sorry, I know this is not the proper place for discussions about Wave, but I can't resists to express my frustration about Google here. How possibly could Wave have had any decent number of users when no one knew about it? :(

That's all, I'm sorry.

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[hector rovira]

I feel very disappointed as well, I was evangelizing about Wave at
work and trying to convince them to add the Wave to our domain (Labs)
feature.

I can't believe the same could happen to Google App Engine, but it
does worry me. The 3-year notice period would be sufficient to allay
my fears, but it would be good if Google would reassure developers.
Its hard enough to convince people that using GAE is a good idea for
our enterprise, but with the Wave announcement it gives ammunition to
the haters...

On Aug 5, 9:56 pm, Jaroslav Záruba <jaroslav.zar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, I know this is not the proper place for discussions about Wave,

> but I can't resists to express my frustration about *Google* here. How

> > <google-appengine%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

[Jaroslav Záruba]

The difference here is that GAE 'suffers' from the exact opposite issue - the number of apps/users sometimes outpaces underlying infrastructure. :)

Nevertheless, it would be cool to have some weekly/monthly updated stats about number of GAE apps.

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[ego008]

I'm a GAE fons.

2010/8/7 Jaroslav Záruba <jarosla...@gmail.com>

--
a Beautiful Blog running on GAE http://keb-log.appspot.com

[Harshal Patil]

I love GAE, and consider it as one of the best products from Google (apart from google.com and gmail).

But I find it hard to believe that GAE suffers because of its popularity. Considering Google claims that it runs on pretty much 'same' infrastructure as that of other google services run from (which I believe they mean, even google.com). 

It looks to me another corporate marketing shit where they try to sell you candy if they already are good at selling ice-cream, claiming the candy is made from same ingredients as that of ice-cream. You take the first bit off that candy, you love it, but something tells you that its not made from quite the 'same' stuff as that of ice-cream. 

2010/8/7 Jaroslav Záruba <jarosla...@gmail.com>

[Geoffrey Spear]

On Aug 6, 12:56 am, Jaroslav Záruba <jaroslav.zar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, I know this is not the proper place for discussions about Wave,

> but I can't resists to express my frustration about *Google* here. How

> possibly could Wave have had any decent number of users when no one knew
> about it? :(
> That's all, I'm sorry.

Sure, no one ever heard of it; that's why everyone was begging for
invites in the early days and there are over 700 stories on its demise
available through Google News.

The fact is that it wasn't really usable as the email/IM/word
processing replacement it was billed as, public waves got predictably
slow, and the really cool "see what the other person types while
they're typing it" feature that was innovative 20 years ago when ytalk
did it isn't really all that attractive if you're a bad typist or self-
edit after you type something you really shouldn't say.

App Engine doesn't suffer from the same low adoption problem, and even
if it did, it's usefulness has nothing to do with the number of people
using it; no one was going to use Wave if their friends weren't on it
to talk to (and Buzz may suffer the same fate for the same reason).
No one cares if their friends are using the same webapp hosting as
they are, so GAE's growth isn't dependent on it's existing size.

[Jaroslav Záruba]

Check discussions below those stories, you will find surprising amount of people who have only now learnt there is something called Google Wave.

Also if you read at least few of those 700 stories you will notice that +90% of them mentions poor or non-existing marketing as one of 2-3 reasons Wave failed.

Just yesterday I was telling my buddy who also works in IT (C programmer) that Google is killing Wave. He did not know what I am talking about.

--

[Jeff Schwartz]

Not to pick hairs but 700 seems to be a rather paltry, minuscule number.

Personally, I never thought Wave was such a great idea though some aspects of it were interesting. I would think that Google might salvage some of its component technology and incorporate the bits into services which it could use in its own apps or even open source them as individual services hosted on their infrastructure. But this is purely my own conjecture.

Regarding appengine, I would hope that Google will now be able to spend more of its resources on making it more resilient and usable. Upping the quotas on cpu and timeout intervals would be a good place to start. Another sorely needed addition would be to add support to the datastore for true inter entity joins. That last one is a biggie but it would make implementations of some design patterns much easier such as fan-out and fan-in. As it now stands, using child listindex entities to support syndication on a huge scale (1M fan-out) or even on a semi-huge scale (thousands) requires way too many levels of indirection. If true joins were supported at the datastore level it would be a rather simple and efficient process.

Maybe Wave's demise will wind up benefiting us all if Google channels some of that energy into making AppEngine a much better platform.

Just my $0.02.

Jeff

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--
Jeff

[Siva P Thumma]

I am not convinced of this post.
I am able to Sign In and see all is functioning well and more good
than before.

What is cooking ? Or you guys dreamed of some cooked thing ?

But even if you dreamed, The Wave is just a protocol. You and I can
build it on top of any technology.
Probably We could implement another Wave platform using that blip and
document / Wave story those guys proposed, on GAE itself for testing
purposes.

I dont know why you guys are worrying and don't know if I need to
believe your post.

[Siva P Thumma]

@Jeff, Imagine caching the complete internet at any point in Time.
That is Wave all about. Idea is simple though but requires, a
tremendous on the fly scalability of server farms.

[Patrick Cornelißen]

Hi!

2010/8/8 SivaTumma <siva...@gmail.com>:

> @Jeff, Imagine caching the complete internet at any point in Time.
> That is Wave all about. Idea is simple though but requires, a
> tremendous on the fly scalability of server farms.

I think you have misunderstood wave.Wave is a collaboration protocoll
and a server.

Regarding your post before, when you google a little bit you'll find the
press release that google wave has been discontinued, but the servers
will remain functional until the end of the year. So of course everything
is still working.

--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,  // Bye,
  Patrick Cornelißen
  http://www.openprojectguide.org
  http://www.pcornelissen.de http://code.google.com/p/gloudy/

[Harshal Patil]

2010/8/9 Patrick Cornelißen <corn...@pcornelissen.de>

Hi!

2010/8/8 SivaTumma <siva...@gmail.com>:

> @Jeff, Imagine caching the complete internet at any point in Time.
> That is Wave all about. Idea is simple though but requires, a
> tremendous on the fly scalability of server farms.

I think you have misunderstood wave.Wave is a collaboration protocoll
and a server.

Regarding your post before, when you google a little bit you'll find the
press release that google wave has been discontinued, but the servers
will remain functional until the end of the year. So of course everything
is still working.

Ha!? I used to think wave is a wet sponge by Google to clean floor tiles. Sad to see they are closing down production by this year end. ;-) 

 

[Siva P Thumma]

@Patrick Cornelißen
Was the news seems correct to you ? Please point me to some official
link...
( If you find some correct link ) I am still thinking it as if it were
a white hat news to bias the people by rivals in internet.

[Jaroslav Záruba]

:P

Are you assuming we are Google's rivals too? :)

[Jaroslav Záruba]

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html

2010/8/9 Jaroslav Záruba <jarosla...@gmail.com>

[Ikai L (Google)]

I just wanted to say that anything can happen to any product. Per our terms of service, we will maintain App Engine for 3 years after any announcement. You're betting that Google will be around for many years and will have the finances to support App Engine. If you ask me, this is a good bet. We're investing a lot in more products, but we also have BILLIONS of dollars in cash:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/07/19/googles-30-billion-question.aspx

My feeling is that App Engine is not going anywhere. We are using App Engine extensively both internally and externally, and there are many companies that are building entire businesses on App Engine. During our last IRC office hours, one company that was only 12 people has grown to employ over 100 people! As long as people are building real businesses on App Engine, the chances that we'll be unhappy with how it's doing and phase it out are near zero. There are a ton of things you can do to help App Engine: build apps. Participate in these discussions. Contribute to open source projects. Write about App Engine. Tell your friends about App Engine. Sell apps to people and sell App Engine consulting. We want you guys to be able to use App Engine for quick apps and prototyping, but we also want you to use App Engine to build your livelihoods. 

--
Ikai Lan 
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine

Blog: http://googleappengine.blogspot.com 

Twitter: http://twitter.com/app_engine

Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine

[Edel SM]

that's very nice to hear from someone at google. thanks Ikai.

--
edel

[Jeff Schwartz]

Ikai,

You just put the biggest smile on my face. Thank you and a big virtual manly hug to you as well :)

Jeff

--
Jeff

[Ikai L (Google)]

I mentioned that we use App Engine extensively. App Engine was being used internally at Google for quite some time before its public release, but I also should provide a few examples. Here is a talk from Google I/O where we detail our use of internal App Engine:

http://code.google.com/events/io/2010/sessions/run-corp-apps-on-app-engine.html

We launch a lot of new products on App Engine. Over the last holiday break, we launched "Give Chrome":

http://www.givechrome.com/#/intro

(See the "Powered by App Engine" icon at the bottom)

The PubSubHubBub reference server (gets lots of QPS):

http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/

There are more sites like these, but I don't remember which ones are publicly stamped with the "App Engine" logo. Just because we work at Google doesn't mean we don't all have a team of sysadmins and site reliability engineers working to keep our products up, and it makes sense to have a team of App Engine experts making sure App Engine, and therefore, our applications, stay up. By launching on App Engine, we enjoy many of the same benefits you all do. 

So to reiterate - no, I don't see us phasing out App Engine. I see us trying to add features and work out reliability kinks because they affect us too! App Engine is becoming more and more important to Google and the developer community as a whole. 

[Albert]

That's great!

On Aug 10, 5:33 am, Jeff Schwartz <jefftschwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ikai,
>
> You just put the biggest smile on my face. Thank you and a big virtual manly
> hug to you as well :)
>
> Jeff
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Ikai L (Google) <ika...@google.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I just wanted to say that anything can happen to any product. Per our terms
> > of service, we will maintain App Engine for 3 years after any announcement.
> > You're betting that Google will be around for many years and will have the
> > finances to support App Engine. If you ask me, this is a good bet. We're
> > investing a lot in more products, but we also have BILLIONS of dollars in
> > cash:
>

> >http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/07/19/googles-30-billion-q...

>
> > My feeling is that App Engine is not going anywhere. We are using App
> > Engine extensively both internally and externally, and there are many
> > companies that are building entire businesses on App Engine. During our last
> > IRC office hours, one company that was only 12 people has grown to employ
> > over 100 people! As long as people are building real businesses on App
> > Engine, the chances that we'll be unhappy with how it's doing and phase it
> > out are near zero. There are a ton of things you can do to help App Engine:
> > build apps. Participate in these discussions. Contribute to open source
> > projects. Write about App Engine. Tell your friends about App Engine. Sell
> > apps to people and sell App Engine consulting. We want you guys to be able
> > to use App Engine for quick apps and prototyping, but we also want you to
> > use App Engine to build your livelihoods.
>

> > On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Jaroslav Záruba <jaroslav.zar...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
>
> >>http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html
>
> >> 2010/8/9 Jaroslav Záruba <jaroslav.zar...@gmail.com>

>
> >> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:10 PM, SivaTumma <sivatu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> @Patrick Cornelißen
> >>>> Was the news seems correct to you ? Please point me to some official
> >>>> link...
> >>>> ( If you find some correct link ) I am still thinking it as if it were
> >>>> a white hat news to bias the people by rivals in internet.
>
> >>> :P
> >>> Are you assuming we are Google's rivals too? :)
>
> >>>> --
>
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
> >>>> To post to this group, send email to google-a...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >>>> google-appengi...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com>
> >>>> .

> >>>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> >>  --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Google App Engine" group.
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> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> >> google-appengi...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com>
> >> .

> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Ikai Lan
> > Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> > Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
> > Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
> > Reddit:http://www.reddit.com/r/appengine
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > google-appengi...@googlegroups.com<google-appengine%2Bunsubscrib e...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[rapher]

Thank you Ikai! Thats what i wanted to hear :)

[nickmilon]

Nice, open and very convincing talk from Ikai. !

[Arun Shanker Prasad]

Thank You Ikai.. That put a smile on face :-) :-)