Re: I am confused.

[buc...@gmail.com]

1. How much room do you have on your C:\ drive? (if the drive is mostly full, you need to delete a bunch of stuff)

2. Is there a directory shown as C:\Go (if so, delete it entirely)

3. Did you download the .msi directly from the golang download site?  (if not, delete the .msi you have and redownload it directly from the golang download site)

4. Rerun the .msi and accept the defaults during the install.

5. Find the .msi download for "Visual Studio Code" and install it (it is a free Microsoft IDE which works well for Go development)

6. Come back here and report your success.

[buc...@gmail.com]

No.  It is an IDE.  You write your code in the top part of the screen.   In the bottom part (the Powershell), you then invoke the compiler with "go build yourfilename.go".

Did you get Go installed?

On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 at 10:41:07 PM UTC-6, John wrote:

Is the visual code studio an compiler or a what, I tried it myself but I isn't able to program.

[alex....@gmail.com]

I would suggest you join a chat server so people can guide you through the whole process with a quicker response time than the hours you are waiting for each reply on a forum such as this one.

https://discordapp.com/invite/PxwHvBS

https://invite.slack.golangbridge.org/

#go-nuts on irc.freenode.net

[buc...@gmail.com]

When you open VS Code there is a welcome screen.  On the left side of the screen you open/create a program filename to work on.  Note the BLUE vertical line separating the narrow left window from the larger right window where you do your program editing.  Toward the bottom of that window you'll see another BLUE horizontal line.  Below that BLUE line click on the "Terminal" and to the right of that you'll see the word "1: powershell" and below those you'll see the intro to Windows Powershell and a command line prompt.  cd to the directory where the file you are working on is located.

Thereafter, as you go along writing your program in the upper window, you can drop down into the lower command line window periodically and you can type 'go build yourfilename.go' and the go compiler will attempt to compile your program, showing you any errors it hits along the way.  If it doesn't hit any errors, the command line will return.  If it shows errors, return to the upper window and fix them (the errors will usually show the line number that had the error).

Open a Windows command window elsewhere (on another monitor), cd to the same directory you are in in the VS Code lower window and execute the command, observing the output.  Go back-and-forth between the VS Code IDE and the command window to change your program to get the results you want.

Go on and accomplish great things!  I have no computer science background, am not particularly smart, am a noob to Go and am able to write a complex web server application with Go that does exactly what I want.  You can, too.  Persistence!  There are lots of free, .pdf books online that teach you Go programming.

(notice my liberal use of the word 'Go')


On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 11:04:38 PM UTC-6, John wrote:

Yes I did, what do you mean by top part of the screen?

[David Skinner]

If you want to learn GO, the easiest and best way to start is with https://play.golang.org/ You write your code using any browser, run the code on a remote server, you can see the results, you can share your code simply by sharing a link. There are all sorts of documentation online.

If you want to create a very simple GO package of your own, you can create a GitHub repo, use the GitHub editor, type your short package and if you have made no errors, it is ready to go. No tools are required.

If you actually want to create an application, for a school project, or for fun, or for business. Then you will likely need to create a development environment, either on your own laptop or desktop or as a docker file defined in a GitHub repo. This is where life gets complicated, GO is supported on many platforms and with many IDEs and with a variety options to meet a variety of needs.

I have written GO using 

• A variety of OS
• Win10
• Linux
• Ubuntu Bash on Win10
• Ubuntu
• Ubuntu on Docker
• Debian
• Slackware
• A variety of IDEs that have different levels of GO support. I would recommentd that you use your favorite IDE or if you are a new programmer, use you mentor's favorite IDE, if you do not have a mentor, you should find one that can help you with your tool chain and assist with code reviews.
  
• VIM - it is where I started
• EMACS - is the best if you have a really great memory
• Sublime 3 - my old favorite
• JetBrains - very impressive
  
• Visual Studio - nice if you are are doing mssql on the same project
• LiteIde - my favorite
• Brackets - nice when doing server side programming of GO templates
• Notepad+ - it works

If you are developing GO on Windows, you can probably use the default installation instructions, there is no need to set a GO path. 

If you are going to write an app for money, for a business, or create a public domain package or app for popular use, you will likely need to define a GOPATH for the project, vendor imported packages, maintain  appropriate legal notices, license, attributions, disclaimer, and use your GitHub commit description to document your development process in the event a journal of your activity is needed in court to prove that were not negligent.

If you are working in a team environment, providing a docker file with the dev environment, including sample data and sql server or other required services will save an enormous amount of time and allow dev online using a chrome book or small note book or any OS without each programmer having to setup the environment and tool chain for the project.

On Monday, May 21, 2018 at 12:27:52 AM UTC-5, John wrote:

  Hello I am just a random person in this small planet of the creation that happens to think that artificial intelligence will take over the world of jobs in the future. With that point of I started to learn Java Script on Khan Academy but didn't quite make that much progress. So I think that now it is time for me to do some serious coding with my OWN launcher or compiler. And after a while I chosen go and got me here. But before I join this group I tried to download the compiler but it didn't quite work. When I finished downloading the 65 MSI installer it only gave me the option to delete the itself or itself and maybe the actual go compiler or repair itself, which when I clicked it it ran something and nothing visually changed. The source I was unable to open for some reason, the computer says it is to big and needs something program to open it. I tried the Internet Explorer but it didn't do anything. But when i clicked the store it shows me that if I have a Microsoft account it can download an program that can open the source which I don't have. By the way I am on a Windows computer. So please Gophers help me become a Gopher too.

[alex....@gmail.com]

Have you not seen my post about joining a chat server?

Instead of waiting a day or so for each reply, people could reply instantly and hold your hand through setting things up.

On Sunday, 27 May 2018 11:37:48 UTC+8, John wrote:

Well I guess I would just use the Go playground so it is easier.

On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 8:27:59 PM UTC-7, John wrote:

I tried to find the terminal button but did not find it. And also I don't know but does the welcome screen say welcome using or something. Because I can't find the blue vertical line on the right. But to make matters worse.... Okay I confess: I am just a kid under 15, and me and my mom just moved to CA two years ago. And because of that she do not know much English so our computer is installed from a language that is nothing alike English. When I downloaded VS code it is in that language, and I don't know how to get it to English. But the good thing is I have good proper English.

[David Skinner]

https://invite.slack.golangbridge.org/

You Must be Over the Age of 16 to use chat server.

You must be over age 13 to use GitHub

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[alex....@gmail.com]

That's why I also linked discord (age 13) and irc

[alex....@gmail.com]

Then you shouldn't even have a google account/gmail and shouldn't be posting on google groups. 

https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/1350409?hl=en

For all countries not listed below, 13 is the minimum age to manage your own Google Account.

The only legit way for you to have a google account would be for your parents to manage it for you, which I highly doubt is the case.

https://support.google.com/families/answer/7101025

On Monday, 28 May 2018 08:31:42 UTC+8, John wrote:

Okay I will confess my age: 9 ......

[Wojciech S. Czarnecki]

On Sun, 27 May 2018 17:31:42 -0700 (PDT)
John <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Okay I will confess my age: 9 ......

So your age is a major obstacle for many adults willing to help you set up
in programming field. In many countries an adult speaking to a kid over
the net can be in legal trouble. Don't be angry at them, or upset. This is
written in the law to protect kids less self-aware than you. Still there
are options to get you on the fast lane to learn anything you want.

1. Khan Academy https://www.khanacademy.org/ provides teaching at all
levels. As far as I know they do not discriminate on age.

2. CODE.org https://code.org/ specializes in teaching computer science.
Kids and schoolteachers alike.

3. https://www.ck12.org/student/ will provide you with many textbooks.

4. https://yourbasic.org/golang/ is a portal to many Go focused readings.
Many articles there aimed at way older than you students, but you will
understand more and more with the time.

As for Go setup: start with playground for a while. Uninstall IDE you
installed. It is daunting and has a thousand knobs that for now will only
distract you. Go compiler and other tools are easy to use with fingers only.

1. Install git. (This is a source control utility that is used for 'go get').
https://github.com/git-for-windows/git/releases/download/v2.17.0.windows.1/Git-2.17.0-64-bit.exe

2. Install Go tools: https://dl.google.com/go/go1.10.2.windows-amd64.msi
You will use it for compiling your programs locally. You will use it on the

3. "Command prompt" aka "console": you can read how to get to it at
https://www.howtogeek.com/235101/10-ways-to-open-the-command-prompt-in-windows-10/

4. Use go playground http://play.golang.org/ as your editor and linter for
exercises. Then copy/paste your code into the local editor and save
as myprog.go or like and compile. After some time you will be confident
enough to write all code locally, I bet.

The most basic "programmer's" editor is called Notepad++
https://notepad-plus-plus.org/repository/6.x/6.9.2/npp.6.9.2.Installer.exe

If you are brave enough you may also learn vim editor:
https://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/vim/pc/gvim81.exe

I respect you, your sincerity and your will to learn young man. Keep on!

Hope this helps,

--
Wojciech S. Czarnecki
<< ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE

P.S. I urge someone with Windows environment to write a followup explaining
step-by-step WIndows specific ways (set up GOPATH mkdir/cd on console).
I am not familiar with win console enough and I do not want to mislead OP
with nix/mac solutions.

[Wojciech S. Czarnecki]

On Sun, 27 May 2018 17:47:36 -0700 (PDT)
alex....@gmail.com wrote:

> Then you shouldn't even have a google account/gmail and shouldn't be
> posting on google groups.

OP: At least unless your Mom is sitting beside you and you are just assisting
her in her use of <mark...@gmail.com> account ;)


========

Seriously - someone should help this kid get a GSE account address.
[ GSE: https://support.google.com/a/answer/139019 ]

> The only legit way for you to have a google account would be for your
> parents to manage it for you, which I highly doubt is the case.
> https://support.google.com/families/answer/7101025

Good advice to him. I bet he will be able to help his mom set up
a FamilyLink to his address ;)

I am so glad that as a 7yo kid I wasn't barred from "student's" library
and as 11yo kid I had been given access to all libraries in my town
including university / university of technology ones...

[prade...@gmail.com]

A 9 yo shouldn't be online talking to adult strangers, it's irresponsible for whoever is in charge of that group to let that thread open, let alone let a 9 y.o. in this group when the internet is full of child predators.

Le lundi 28 mai 2018 02:31:42 UTC+2, John a écrit :

Okay I will confess my age: 9 ......

On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 9:07:26 PM UTC-7, alex....@gmail.com wrote:

[Matthias B.]

On Mon, 28 May 2018 12:11:26 -0700 (PDT)
prade...@gmail.com wrote:

> thread open, let alone let a 9 y.o. in this group when the internet
> is full of child predators.

The Internet is not full of child predators. The NEWS are full of child
predators.

MSB

--
Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for a lifetime.

[Wojciech S. Czarnecki]

On Mon, 28 May 2018 12:11:26 -0700 (PDT)
prade...@gmail.com wrote:

> A 9 yo shouldn't be online talking to adult strangers, it's irresponsible

> for to let that thread open, let alone

> let a 9 y.o. in this group when the internet is full of child predators.

Above statement is perfectly WRONG on all axis.

It is the adult who MAY NOT talk to a stranger kid IN PRIVATE.

Some kids know already, others should be taught that they ought to REPORT
to their parents or teachers about stranger adults trying to chat PRIVATELY.

PUBLIC GROUP - more or less scientific - is the right place for a kid
to get knowledge she or he seeks. Predators do not prey in spotlight.
Thousands of other adults can watch the conversation.

Internet is full of kids and adolescents who do explore the world around
as all generations before them had done. It is a reasonable goal for a society
to protect its youngs from content HARMFUL to their development.
But since when the science is considered harmful for kids? 11/8/2016?

A call to 'whoever is in charge' to get this kid banned from the sci group;
a call to get kid who wanna learn cut off knowledge is the perfect
example of mankind losing its mind.

Sad times.

[Liron Levy]

Well said ohir couldn't of say it better.

[David Skinner]

When I was a kid, I roamed the DARPAnet, with permission. I assumed everything I did was logged and monitored.

Just before it became a civilian network, the Arpanet, two government men in black suits came and spent a couple of hours with me, I showed them what I learned on the internet and how to find out things. They gave me $200 and thanked me for my service to my country. I am eternally grateful for being given the opportunity to mingle with the great minds on the internet in that day.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201405/teach-teens-internet-safety/#?insight[search_id]=ab9087a0-2b1e-4043-8ed7-59cb900203a8&insight[search_result_index]=0 
This is a favorite article I use. Kids today have cell phones that connect to the Internet. It is pervasive.

I remember meeting with JPL regarding a Gateway project a very long time ago. The goal was to connect children around the globe using satellites for an exchange of culture and ideas.

We need to be engaged with young people, not isolate them. So a 9 year old is having trouble with his tool chain and needs help. I understand, I had trouble with the Intel 8008 when I was 12, I had trouble with my Android tool chain last year, my son had to help me.

If you put him out of the group for being too young, will you put me out of the group for being too old.

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:51 AM Liron Levy <r3dr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well said ohir couldn't of say it better.

[Chris Hopkins]

So with that unpleasantness hopefully past:

John, did you get your question answered?

[John]

I think now I should have really just pretend to be a 20 year old person ,what ever I just want to survive the artificial intelligent "invasion" . Everyone just please ignore everything I posted, I ran in to too much trouble because of my stupidity and naive mind.

[Wojciech S. Czarnecki]

On Thu, 31 May 2018 21:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
John <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think now I should have really just pretend to be a 20 year old person

You did RIGHT thing being sincere about your age. Period.

Sane adults will respect you and knowing your age they can try to help
you using words and examples that fit. 20yo is expected to know many
'side' things a 9yo is not (eg. trigonometry and basic algorithms).

Ask for help as you did -- it is the proper way to get started.
Just always use PUBLIC newsgroups and public channels
(on slack or gitter) where programmers gather to chat.

In a private talk anyone can pretend he knows something he
does not know or "knows wrong". Honest and knowledgeable
adults prefer to talk about science and technology in public so
others can correct them immediately had they mistake.

So do NOT initiate or respond to private messages. If anyone knowing
your age insists to chat or mail in private -- do not hesitate to report
this to your mom, your teacher or other nearby adult you trust.

Help your mom to mange your Google account. Ask her to put
somewhere in the account description [https://aboutme.google.com/]
"This is an account for my 9yo son and I hereby give him permission
to access any scientific or technical on-line service he wishes to
participate in."

Do it really. She will then be able to ack her parental permission
over the phone and restore your account had someone mean called
Google with 'this kid is under 13' delation. You also can point admins
of groups or channels to this permission every time they will be in
doubt of your "right to being here".

After that you may proudly put 'I am 9 y.o.' in your mail signature
and challenge the world that tries to get kids off knowledge.

> Everyone just please ignore everything I posted

Here is enough people who do not ignore you. And many
who admire your hunger for knowledge, your will to learn and your
sincerity. All adults once were kids, weren't they? ;) Many adults
present here once upon a time were just smart kids eager to play
with new things and science no matter what.
You refreshed our memories. Thank you.

Keep on!

--
Wojciech S. Czarnecki
<< ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE

P.S. 'Thank you' is a better wording than 'please ignore me'. For kids and
adults alike ;)

[Chris Hopkins]

Hi,

Posting again just to say, It's a damn shame we aren't allowed to help John. Yes forum rules and laws exist to protect people like John for a really good reason but it's a shame there is no forum where we are allowed to help. (John, this is why I have not and unfortunately will not reply to you PM. I'm really sorry, but there are laws against this.)

Does anyone know of a forum where we could help? Or a way the rules could be updated so that we are allowed to help? It's frustrating to show such a hostile view of the industry, we're better than this!

To John: I can't recommend deceiving people about your identity. I've done it in the past (as a teenager) and for me it always came out and it was always worse because of it.

Going forwards, I'd say you're doing absolutely the right thing. Keep probing, keep asking and don't be satisfied with a half answer. Under other circumstances the people on this forum will keep trying to help indefinitely as long as you are open and honest with them (just check the archives for some of the threads of people struggling to know the right question to ask, and persisting until they are understood). 99% of engineering for me is knowing the right person to ask the right question to.

With that in mind, your original email was to me slightly confused. If when asking people a question, keep the question that you're asking and the context around that question separate. It helps us know what is speculation, and what is actually your trouble (I spell this out because I am very bad at this myself). e.g. I would have said "I've been trying to install the go compiler on my PC, I tried these steps, it failed with this error message, can anyone help?"

Also drop the mention of AI unless you're a journalist or really know what you're talking about. Learn the basics, learn the languages, learn the maths, then start asking about NLP and deep learning and you'll probably get much further :-)

Regards and Apologies

Chris

[alex....@gmail.com]

I don't think there are any, legally for a underage kid in the US to do anything requiring storing/collecting data they need verifiable parents permission and a whole lot of other things.

Here's the 44 page doc from the FTC https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/2012-31341.pdf

Maybe someone here could start a platform safe for underage kids, but dealing with the FTC and international regulations is going to be tough and expensive.

[Wojciech S. Czarnecki]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
Chris Hopkins <cbeho...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Posting again just to say, It's a damn shame we aren't allowed to help
> John.

I think that we (Europeans) are allowed to help on a public forum.
I also know that many of US citizens will be scared to do so :(.

> Yes forum rules and laws exist to protect people like John for a
> really good reason but it's a shame there is no forum where we
> are allowed to help.

This is the right place IMO. A few hundreds of thousands eyes
are watching. The "special warden for kids" is way worse
as it might attract adults not most knowledgeable but ones
"who feel easy with".

> there is no forum where we are allowed to help.

Once his mom will write her permission on his profile (see my other
reply) there still will be legal uncertainty about TOS vs parental will
but (at least in my country) there will be no legal threat to the helping
adult. [Do in your country parents are legally barred from allowing their
kids to play on the lawn of willing to help neighbor?]

> (John, this is why I have not and unfortunately will not reply to you PM.

There is NO place for the hidden from public supervision talk
between strangers if one of them is a kid. Whether local laws
are or are not strict.

> Or a way the rules could be updated so that we are allowed to help?

We ought pressure Google to consider a simple way for non-technical
parents to get their wünderkid accounts exempt from age restrictions
on their will. The FamilyLink way is neither simple nor precise and
AFAIH it cuts off too much.

> It's frustrating to show such a hostile view of the industry, we're better
> than this!

I hope that at least Europeans will stay sane and would help.

If you do live in oppressive legal regimes like US you still can help:

just _reply_to_the_reply_of_the_adult_in_kidOP_thread_.

Accidentally with a solution to the kid's problem ;).

sincerely,

[Chris Hopkins]

>> (John, this is why I have not and unfortunately will not reply to you PM.

> There is NO place for the hidden from public supervision talk
>between strangers if one of them is a kid. Whether local laws
>are or are not strict.

Just to be clear, there was a typo in my reply and should have said your, not you. I hadn't realised the typo might have been misconstrued.

I had received a PM, I have deleted it and will not reply.

Sorry, I sound like I'm being a bit of a berk, but I don't want to do the wrong thing.

Chris

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[David Skinner]

It seems that there is a solution to the kid's problem, but it is not simple, I will need some help.

I propose that we setup a golang-nuts site for kids that are under 13 that complies with the laws in the United States and elsewhere.

I have 64 years of age, two grand children, a background in engineering, accounting and law, and I started programming when I was 9 years old. I think this needs to be done and I am willing to work on it.

When I was young, I had my father's help and support. I was also assisted by a professor of mathematics at LSU who provided me with my first computer chips, I had to build an Intel 8008 computer with 128 bytes of memory and a hexadecimal display that ran at 100kHz with the help of two engineers from Dow. I told the professor that someday, all computers would have a hexadecimal display. I never was good at predicting the future..

My first experience on the Internet was on a super fast high speed 128 baud modem. My terminal ran on an Intel 8008 with 1k for programming and 1k for video display. It connected to the world. I learned mathematics at Stanford, read history reports you would never find in a grade school library, learned about countries and cultures, languages, and yes on one occasion an ascii-graphic that was inappropriate. I was able to play chess with sailors at the freedom port in Port Allen from around the world because I knew about their ship, their country, their language, and their culture.

The OP needs our help, but he is not the only one.

• We can create an organization on GitHub and iron out the details using Issues, it will be a Project
• The Organization would be an unincorporated association for educational purposes.
• We would maintain a fully moderated blog for Go programmers under the age of 13 that complies with statute.
• Policy and procedures will be reviewed by FTC.
• Personally identifiable information in blog entries would be redacted prior to publication.
• We can discuss the rest.

I would like for John to have his mom send me a Private Message by e-mail, it can be in any language, I would like to help her, to help you.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com.

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[Matthias B.]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:11:38 -0500
David Skinner <skinne...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems that there is a solution to the kid's problem, but it is not
> simple, I will need some help.
>
> I propose that we setup a golang-nuts site for kids that are under 13
> that complies with the laws in the United States and elsewhere.

The only adults who would contribute to such a site would weirdos.
There would be no real value for kids trying to learn.

There is a solution to that kid's problem and that is for him to get a
new email account and to pretend he is 14.

MSB

[David Skinner]

https://www.naeyc.org/resources/topics/dap

Matthias B. I respectfully disagree. Your suggestion did work for me 50 years ago and it may work for him.

No one on the Internet is anonymous. Your vocabulary reveals your age, education, class, region, politics, interests. The Oxford dictionary has 171k English words in use, most in the US use only 20k words, 35k if well educated. Foreigners that are fluent in English as a second language may have a vocabulary of only 3k words. A 9 year old pretending to be 14 will alienate discerning people because his vocabulary and grammar will not match his claims.,

I am suggesting a developmentally appropriate practice in compliance with regulations that will benefit my grand children, and perhaps others.

In the past, I have tutored college students and been a resource for colleges, high schools, and grade schools. I once gave a presentation to a group of second graders on ISO 9000 Quality Assurance Standards using the book "Horton Has an Egg". They totally got it. Their teacher loved it. The kids loved it. The parents I met were shocked that their kids could comprehend and integrate  such concepts at a young age. Do not under estimate the youth.

I would like to have help from parents, grand parents, and educators. I will try to filter out the weirdos. 

Thank you for your comment, I appreciate the warning.                                                                                                                

[alex....@gmail.com]

One major thing to consider before even attempting this is that the FTC alone fines $40,000 per violation. 

Unless someone can create a perfect system that never has any violations ever, such a site would need lots of cash and lawyers which are out of the reach of everyone but the top 1%.

[Wojciech S. Czarnecki]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:11:38 -0500
David Skinner <skinne...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I propose that we setup a golang-nuts site for kids that are under 13

It will not work. Most people who can answer are not educators and
most nerd kids are (ok, from my generation, were) not about to attend
'just for kids' places.

> I propose that we setup a golang-nuts site

I think that amending golang.org with separate step-by-step
instructions "for absolute beginners" should do. It need not to
have age label. I see right place for the link under the "Download"
box and above "Featured Articles" column.

The current https://golang.org/doc/install is aimed at people
who are expected to not only know about but also have already
installed all that stuff we take for granted (IDEs, editors, source
control et ceterae). But "For Absolute Beginners" page should
mention all details that lead from [Download] button to the final:

$ go install
$ hello
Hello World!

Including all needed knowledge about how to install git and how
to set up PATH/GOPATH then how to find terminal|console.
Separately for each mainstream OS.

Let the rest to the already functional educators' hubs like code.org

> We would maintain a fully moderated blog for Go programmers under the

We need a systemic change at the Internet moguls level.

How it _might_ work?

Allow the default parent's account with 2f auth to vet for accounts of
their children [Now possible but only if an adult is mobile-savy].

Explicitly allow in TOS kids under 13 to access public science
and learning services (or just any service except inappropriate ones).

Let gmail accounts profile have explicit "I am of age:"

[ ] less than 13,
[ ] 13-18
[ ] over 18 [default]

Then: if a >13 person is sending direct mail or PM to the <13 person warn the
sender and offer a link [or code] that let sender acknowledge that she or he
knows that recipient is under 13 and that she or he knows this message will
be read by custodians (direct mandatory cc/log). Messages from public groups
like this would go direct.

Thats all.

[David Skinner]

Wojciech S. Czarnecki  I like the way you think. Your suggestions are simple, straightforward, easy to implement, and solve a lot of problems. I like it.

For my grand children, I already have an educational site, but its use is restricted to myself, my children, and my grand children. No one else has access. So no more than 7 users.

alex.rou.sg also brings up a valid point. FTC fines. https://www.ftc.gov/safe-harbor-program  I do not wish to be fined. So that means I must follow proper procedure. Setting up a Go based blog server with full moderation and Google Auth is something that can be done in a day. Drafting the required self-regulating guidelines that implement the protections of the Commission’s final Rule could take me month's working on it part time. I would want to have it reviewed before submitting it to the FTC. Then it may take 6 months for them to respond, if they find no problems with the guidelines. I cannot imagine that the site would be public in less than a year. Then there is the matter of content. I can seed the site with content I created for my family. I am hoping that we can enable the kids to define their needs and enable them to create their own content. In the 80s, governor Clinton encouraged exposing school children in Arkansas to computer science. I assisted some teachers with enabling the kids to program on Apple and C64 and IBM computers using COMAL. I said then We are not teaching computer science, we are here to facilitate their learning. The students formed teams, chose their own projects, some created music, others used turtle graphics, some did sprite animation, another team did a space flight simulation. When they were finished, I wrote a short Comal program that imported the package that each team created and presented their class project. The results were awesome. I worked with one of those students years later at Sierra Online. I think this project is worth doing but  Wojciech S. Czarnecki is right. we need to be directing novices to code.org right now, they are up and running, Perhaps I am guilty of the "It was not invented here syndrome."

[Dave Cheney]

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

It is now time to bring discussion to a close as the discussion has left the dominion of this group’s remit.

[Kean Ho Chew]

@Dave,

One last thing before closing it. It's important and I strongly believe it is missing. Don't worry, my country won't kill me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Monday, 28 May 2018 08:31:42 UTC+8, John wrote:

Okay I will confess my age: 9 ......

On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 12:14:00 PM UTC+8, John wrote:

I think now I should have really just pretend to be a 20 year old person ,what ever I just want to survive the artificial intelligent "invasion" . Everyone just please ignore everything I posted, I ran in to too much trouble because of my stupidity and naive mind.

Hi John,

I'll speak as an adult because I strongly believe it's important for you.

Kudos on your learning spirits and daring. You're definitely not wrong admitting your age. Never pretends, all right? You might get all of us roasted really bad if you continue to do that. Some of here nearly turned into sweet honey bacon.

Don't get discouraged by the discussion above. The other adults are doing their parts protecting the people from becoming the next juicy lemon steak. Well, truth is, we can't help you directly but there is a way: pass the question to your parent and have him/her ask for you on behalf.

Now, here's the thing, don't you dare to fake another account and pretend as your parent, deal? Folks here can smell it easily just by reading the way you ask the question and answer and they are really good at it. Even I got grilled. I believe you learn the hard-way here already. If they find you again with another email address, you won't get the answer you want.

You had earned our trust by your bravery and your learning. Don't lose them through your awesome hacking. The last time I did nearly send my parent to jail. Keep the learning spirit up, all right? I hope to see you in this community again 4 years later. Till then, have mom/dad to help you out.

Regards,

Kean Ho

[Daniel Skinner]

There's so much that's been said, my own father brought up segmentation in an effort to promote education.

Just get on IRC, figure out relevant questions you need to ask, ignore people that fail to answer, and pursue your dreams regardless of any one person.

Any single person may sound like they have the answer but they never do. Find your answers everywhere, even outside the law, and be safe always. Take a previous responders advice and just join a channel to get quicker responses.

Yes, you'll be judged, but that's never goiy to change. People will always be trying to see themselves in you when communicating. Just do you when it comes to your own goals and somewhere there will be someone not trying to see themselves in someone they don't know, and they'll eventually answer your question simply.

In general, I'd stick with math classes in khan academy and just running code at play.golang.com, your not going to solve the world's problems just bc you got Go's toolchain running local on your computer.

Then again, im only personifying myself through yourself since I know i won't do the same; so be you and take joy in that. I only say this as a father who knows ive run my course, but for others who think this discussion has, regardless of notability, it in fact has not. In the US at least, this person will grow up and vote, this person will talk to others. Don't say this discussion is done, it's far from it as long as we are all still breathing.

There may be genral guidelines to the purpose of this forum, but there's more general guidelines to the purpose of living so-as to fulfill the purpose of this forum. It'd be best not to forget that, nor to ignore that for other extenuating circumstances.

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[Daniel Skinner]

**but for others who think this discussion has run it's course...

sorry for the oversight to all readers

[Daniel Skinner]

I'll just add, anyone waving the FCC around, beyond starting a legitimate enterprise in the US, the FCC can stick a cucumber where the sun doesn't shine.

Kids expressing interest in a topic isn't why we began regulating anything; foreign invasions, including economical invasions, is why we began regulating. Human trafficking dragged in children to law.

Sorry to be so blunt, but helping some kid install the Go toolchain regardless of law doesn't equate to human trafficking. If you recognize they're problem, just provide a solution and move on with your life. Stop being paranoid and stop acting like some kind of "good citizen" of the earth based on some country's law.

[alex....@gmail.com]

No one mentioned the FCC, my comments mentioning the FTC were in the context of websites or starting a website to help people like John which I assume is in the US as he mentioned moving to CA.

[Kean Ho Chew]

Dear Daniel,

I saw a problem through a bigger picture after digging through the entire thread. If something happens to John and this thread serves as Exhibit A, all of us are at risk. This is a public forum, searchable under Google. Everyone in this community has an obligation to protect one another and when another 9 years old talent happens to read this thread, they know how to reach us out.

Yes, the question is about installing the tool-chain. I can answer his/her question safely and straightforward since my country doesn't involved that complicated law but there are 5 things that are far higher priority, as a mentor:

1. John has breached a number of terms of services unknowingly, publicly, written, and the worst part, made him confessed across the globe

2. The people wants to help but some countries has a "legal roadblock" to reaching him

3. The forum can be at risk of suspension

4. John doesn't know how to protect himself/herself on his/her own yet as reflected in #1

5. It's too late to answer his question by playing John's way since he already did #1

I weighted the #1 higher, way higher than anything else including guiding him to install the tool-chain. Guiding an innocent talent to get his/her answer by committing a crime is definitely not the way. You're right about one thing, he's going to vote in the future. I don't guide an innocent person to get an apple he wanted by pointing guns at the shopkeeper. (Get it?)

Law system exists for a reason and there is always a workaround. I already shown him the way. In fact, the answer is very clear once he follow that way (and how he can approach us again, abiding the laws, safely). Once he/she does that and I'm speaking to his/her parent, I'm willing to help. Period.

I write to him as an adult because he seriously earned my salute and trust, despite being 9 years old. It's not easy to earn an adult respect in a public tech forum. That's why it's important. I even tone myself down to his/her level to make it clear that my audience is John. Another reason why he earned my trust is at his age, a normal tech-savvy child only knows how to program Lego Mindstorm. John took extra effort to learn more, which is highly exceptional.

This is internet. What you post, it reflects globally. Remember reason #4? What is wrong for John's parent to help John out through them in IRC or Discord, sitting side by side communicating in those channels? Even an orphan has an appointed guardian. This topic in fact, should be closed as an unintentional confession from an innocent under-aged talent and pointing the right way for him/her to reach the community in a safer way, and that is: with his/her parents helping our very bright and young talent out. 

If you still have doubt, bring in fact. We'll discuss.

Regards, 

Kean Ho

[David Skinner]

This is a public forum, operated by google, who allows children to post with their parents permission which they document through a credit card transaction.

If a five year old has his parents permission to use the internet and he has a technical question, he has the right to do so in this forum. Neither the laws of the USA or Googles TOS prescribes him from making a request.

You have the right to ignore his question. I ignore lots of ignorant questions.

This forum also has its own rules of conduct. You do not have the right to make the 5 year old feel unwelcome because of his age.

There are other concerns about what is acceptable behavior on the internet, especially when adults are communicating with children, and they are not all defined by law.

In this instance a moderator has chosen to use 100% deletion method to prevent a minor from revealing personal information without parental permission. I think that was the correct response in this case and is the procedure suggested in the FTC guidelines.

Go is a really fun language.
You can learn it on the go playground.
Our mascot is a cute and lovable cartoon gopher.
If you need help you go to the whimsically named golang-nuts group.

All of these things attract children. If you exclude those children from 100% of your content, you are in violation of the FTC rules.

So be polite, be kind, watch your language, there are children in the room.

I want to thank kean ho chew and .Daniel Skinner for your considered response.

I was taught to respect the bandwidth and to always respect the moderator. The moderator has closed this topic.

My apologies to the moderator, no disrespect was intended by this late posting. 😰 

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[Daniel Skinner]

ok, but promoting a rebellious attitude isn't just about the government. If someone wants to innovate, they need to carry that attitude into every field; so, promote it in any context.

I appreciate your sensible response for the greater good but i was only stoking a fire that is already burning brightly so that it might not be extinguished.

--

[Kean Ho Chew]

@Daniel,

No worries. Peace. =) FYI, I'm already working a screenshot heavy guide for John with David help.

@Dave,

I'm very sorry for interrupting you and disrespected your role as a moderator. This would be my last reply for this thread. Once the guide is done, I'll post it in a separate thread.

Regards,

Kean Ho

[Charlton Trezevant]

I think that many commenters on this thread are missing an important detail. It's incredible for this individual to have posted here, especially so at the age of 9. OP should be applauded for taking such initiative, and for embracing Go as they explore and develop their passion for computing. I hope that they will not find their experience on this forum to be discouraging in any way.

My own programming journey started around the same age as OP, and I've had the privilege of coming into contact with many mentors and resources as I've pursued my studies of computing. Those mentors were kind enough to share their knowledge and challenge me just as they would any other individual. They were respectful of my eagerness to learn, in spite of my age, and I owe a great deal of my current knowledge and skill to their efforts.

As someone who mentors and educates students from a range of 14-20 years of age, I can state from experience that even at these advanced ages, many of those students lack these prerequisite skills. This is often the cause of a great deal of frustration for these students, as many of them have to spend considerable time getting the basic concepts nailed down before they can start being productive. Clearly, a concentrated effort should be made to provide more and better scaffolding to learners so that they are better prepared to take on computer science curriculum at younger ages.

As a community, we should make an effort to support learners as much as possible, no matter what their age or initial skill level might be. This applies not only to Golang or the Go community (although I congratulate OP on their interest in Golang, specifically!), but for the field of computing in general. Adding more minds, eyes, and voices to the conversation will only benefit our field as a whole. Disparaging newcomers, whatever their background, will do nothing to further this.

Whether that is a matter of more widely scoped/available documentation for varying skill levels or the development of a more specially tailored platform for these cases is merely an implementation detail. But there's no point in beginning that conversation if we're not willing to scaffold newcomers in the first place.

[Daniel Skinner]

> FYI, I'm already working a screenshot heavy guide for John with David help.

That's really awesome. I just want to personally thank you for putting in the effort to produce such for any soul.

I know age was a big factor in this discussion, but frankly all of us are capable of confusion. Any-thing that makes any-process dead-simple is a boon to any-one. It also gives everyone a chance to look over things we thought we knew and better evaluate how we have done things, even in the simplest of things.

So again, thank you for producing such.

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[Daniel Skinner]

I appreciate your viewpoint as it strikes a chord for me. As for my own child, I've dealt with trying to deliver information in various stages of reception of information.

But one thing I've noticed throughout my own time, regardless of age and regardless of the topic material, is that helping others regardless of how inconsequential we might deem a particular knowledge, it doesn't suit any of us to judge what we might try to push the preforations of any single person's life. We all can review what we think we know, and we all can review what really best in the simplest of terms.

I don't mean to go on a tangent, but I will. VGO is very much a living exasperation of this; not only does it deny an exorbetant wealth of collective experience that's manifested itself in various "terrible" forms, but it challenges such saying that we can live simpler lives and maintain simpler code. Why does that matter? Because ulltimately we will, collectively, produce better results in an arena where the imagination is allowed to run wild.

I'm talking about API design. We can all do better in the packages we provide to this community, but forethought will always be required to do so. How is this relevant to a nine year old from another country who apparently speaks excellent english? Because if we can't reach those reaching out to us in the simplest of terms, we have failed and our API design has failed, and even more specifically our MSI installers have failed due to lack of documentation.

We will always need to engage the next generation. Go isn't such a horrible platform for that. So let us do better as a community.

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