[GMCnet] Brake shoe adjustment

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

Sorry for not searching this first. but I am headed to the driveway to replace all 4 sets of brake shoes on my 76 eleganza II. A leaking cylinder in
one has prompted the work, and the wheels are off anyway for the new tires.
The manual says tighten adjusters until there is drag then back off 30 clicks. This seems like a lot, I was thinking more like just until there is no
or very slight drag. Any small amount of drag would get worn off in the first few miles. BUT drum brake adjustment is a new thing for me, so please
contribute to my education. Will check back later, should be a few hours to do all 4 wheels.
TIA
Randy

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[Wayne Rogewski]

Id tighten until it starts to drag and back off a few clicks. While your in there, Id clean and pack each bearing if it hasn't been done in a while.
Mobil 1 or Synpower.

The smaller (less friction material) of the two shoes goes FORWARD.
--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

Good call on the wheel bearings, now I need to order new seals and start my least favorite job of cleaning and packing 8 bearings!
Time to look up the seal number.

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

There's a test for those seals. On a flat surface, you should be able to pass a drill bit (1/4"? Someone help me here) betwee nthe seal material and
the surface. Sometimes you are given seals with the sealing face too close to the side of the seal away from the bearing. Those have problems
sealing properly.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Wayne Rogewski]

SKF 21771 is the seal, I have found correct ones from Napa. (while your there pick up a bearing packer) That makes the job a bit better.

Yes, 1/4 inch drill bit or flat stock that will fit inside the inner part of the seal.

--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan

[John R. Lebetski]

Be sure you understand the wheel bearing adjustment sequence involving a torque wrench to seat and then the loosening, finger tightening and pinning
procedure. A Lisle bearing bench greaser is a nice tool to have.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[John R. Lebetski]

Important is after finger tightening, if no holes line up, loosen to the next alternate hole do not tighten. Note where the holes are before nutting
and how they alternate.

--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Terry]

Put a spare wheel and tire on with a couple of nuts and get a helper to spin the wheel while you adjust if you can. With or without the helper, when
properly adjusted the wheel will spin (freewheel)just less than 1 full turn after you stop trying to keep it spinning. Then go and apply the brake and
release and check the free spin again. You will probably then get to adjust it up 3-5 clicks to get it just right. If they are new brake shoes, you
will have to repeat this last adjustment after several stops. If your self-adjusters work properly, you shouldn't have to repeat the last adjustment
if you back up and stop several times, hard enough to make them work.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

OK, go the packer and grease, mid cylinders and seals, but I think the seals are wrong. They don't carry SKF sold me National 8974S. The lip of the
seal to the edge of the metal is .240 but the dimension from the lip to the flat side(outer) is .260
Are these OK or do I have to keep hunting. My parts guy, who is pretty good, said SKF 21771 is NLA. Maybe just for him though.
Shoes are new, so I am not too concerned about adjustment initially. They will need to bed to the drums and further adjustment is planned. Looking
forward to being able to stop this beast.
Just did master cylinder and prop vales, new fuel lines and tires. After a 10 year nap we are getting close to hitting the road again. Maybe...

[Billy Massey]

http://www.bdub.net/Seals,_Wheel_Bearings.pdf

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of Johnny Bridges via Gmclist
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 8:22 AM

There's a test for those seals. On a flat surface, you should be able to
pass a drill bit (1/4"? Someone help me here) betwee nthe seal material and
the surface. Sometimes you are given seals with the sealing face too close
to the side of the seal away from the bearing. Those have problems
sealing properly.

[Billy Massey]

If you'll order from Jim K., you'll get the correct parts.
http://appliedgmc.com/

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

I got four seals from Advance, they had to order two of them. All four had the same number stamped in the metal part. First two were Federal, second
two weren't. Only difference - the Federal ones had an orange sealer painted on the contact surface of the seal housing while the others didn't.
Until I put some sealer on them as well.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[David H. Jarvis]

You can get all new springs too

[Emery Stora]

If you have the GMCMI Parts Interchange Index look in the front (about page 9). There is a good writeup on the front and rear seals that tells
how to make sure you have the right ones.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

So it looks like the seals are wrong. Off to find the right ones.
Yes I would normally order from Applied, but want this done today so I need to get them locally.

One side complete, wheel cylinders were shot and ruined the shoes. Also think a seal might be failing but with all the brake fluid in the drum it is
hard to tell what failed.

[Wayne Rogewski]

Since your already into the wheel cylinders, take a moment to put a few careful wraps of teflon tape on the bleeder screws. You will thank yourself
for it then next time you have to bleed the system.. (and cudos to Matt C for passing the info on)

--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan

[Rob Mueller]

Randy,

Here you go:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/rear-axle-seals-skf21771/p36356-says-made-in-the-usa.html

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

[Rob Mueller]

Randy,

I just thought of something that no one has mentioned, the rear brake shoes adjust themselves automatically whenever you backup and
hit the brakes. You could go to a large parking lot and back up and stop repeatedly until they're adjusted.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 12:30 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Brake shoe adjustment

[John Phillips]

That is if it still works.

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Rob Mueller <robmu...@iinet.net.au>
wrote:

--

*John Phillips*

[Terry]

Rob, he wanted the initial setup after rebuilding the brakes, according to the original post.

No one

--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.

[Rob Mueller]

Agreed, only mentioned it as we've got newbies who may or may not know that they do that.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Terry
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 1:10 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Brake shoe adjustment

Rob, he wanted the initial setup after rebuilding the brakes, according to the original post.

No one
--
Terry Kelpien

[Rob Mueller]

Agreed, however, since he had just replaced the shoes the logical assumption would be that it worked, unless he screwed up the
reassembly.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of John Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 12:46 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Brake shoe adjustment

That is if it still works.

[Charles Boyd]

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6385-how-i-adjust-brakes.html
Sir, after assembly tighten adjusters tight. This will center shoes. Then loosen adjuster till the wheel free spins and will ring when tapped with
wrench. There will still be a tight spot, but should be slight.
The National seal is a double lip seal and I usually don't seat the seal in the hub below the lip and just flush with the outer lip.
Rule of thumb on bearings and wheel cylinders is if one is bad or questionable is replace them all. Makes sleeping more relaxing.
On the brake shoes use sevier duty bonded shoes and the short shoe is primary and goes to the front. Replace springs also. Make sure the emergency
brake cable is retracted all the way and not holding against the shoes.
On the bearing adjustment, tighten to 35 ft lb to seat seal then loosen and re tighten by hand only till cotter key will go in. There are 2 different
holes in spindle for half a hole sdjustment. Never replace bearing without replacing race.



McCohens wrote on Mon, 28 August 2017 08:43

> Sorry for not searching this first. but I am headed to the driveway to replace all 4 sets of brake shoes on my 76 eleganza II. A leaking cylinder
> in one has prompted the work, and the wheels are off anyway for the new tires.
> The manual says tighten adjusters until there is drag then back off 30 clicks. This seems like a lot, I was thinking more like just until there
> is no or very slight drag. Any small amount of drag would get worn off in the first few miles. BUT drum brake adjustment is a new thing for me, so
> please contribute to my education. Will check back later, should be a few hours to do all 4 wheels.
> TIA
> Randy

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

[John Wright]

Even though I always reassemble a drum brake package with the auto adjuster, I never trust it to properly adjust the drum brakes, because we very very rarely backup. I manually adjust the drum brakes on our coach. I have run all different brake combinations over the last 18 years including 6-wheel disk setups. 2 years ago I got with Dave Lenzi and I now run the same setup as Dave has on his coach. I have 80MM on the front, Lee Harrison 12 1/2” rotors and 80MM on the middle bogie and Drums with a 15/16 slave on the rears. I do around 10K miles a year and I adjust my rear bogie drums one in the spring and once in the fall. I do basically what Charles B. does to adjust the rear drums.

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

What Chuck Boyd said.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

You guys have been invaluable on this project. Here is the status.
The bad cylinder ruined the brakes and probably the bearing seal. A total mess in that one. Another was starting, the paint was peeling off the
brake shoe but no puddle.
Doing all 4 cylinders, and you are right I would always wonder if all 4 were not replaced.
Got the right seals, finally and am using speedbleeders on all 4. Currently waiting for the rain to stop and 2 speedbleeders to finish.
The lisle greaser looks real good. Got one, and can't wait to use it.
On the adjustment thing, I would like to get them set myself, but will see if the adjusters work once it is on the road.
Got new springs also, but some did not match up well. The main ones for return fit perfectly and went in. But my arms are rather sore today after
fighting all those springs.
If this happens again the back will get all disks, I forgot how much I hated drum brakes!

Again thanks to all for your information. Looking forward to the first real drive in 10 years and being able to stop again.

[Wayne Rogewski]

Good to hear. If its been off the road a decade, I would certainly bleed every last drop of old brake fluid out of there. While your at it, what
do the rubber brake hoses look like? If they are original you know its time to change those out as well. One of those things where a job to
change out a 10 dollar part ends up costing a few hundred and 20 other parts. But, they are your brakes.... No other component on the coach is more
important.

--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

Yes Hoses were replaced in ~99 and look very good. This will be the second time for a bleed, so the flow is good and the fluid looks decent.
Already did the fuel lines, tanks were very clean inside. Way cleaner than they should have been, compared to other old cars I have had.
I am very lucky, so far. Engine has no leaks, coolant was nice and bright green but the thermostat was frozen. Compression is about 160 across the
board. Tested roof AC, fridge, water system and all were good. I will do the water heater coolant lines, as they were not cracked but seemed a
little soft.

If I am lucky the only remaining expense is a passenger side windshield, the crack is huge and has been growing over the last few years even with the
coach sitting.

[Rob Mueller]

Randy,

I would highly recommend you use Valvoline Synpower in the Lisle bearing greaser. In fact I'd use it on everything that needs
greasing EXCEPT the front wheel bearings IF you have zerk fittings to grease the bearings installed in the knuckles, then use Mobil
1.

The reason I say that is because you can see the color of the grease change from a ruddy brown to a bright red when the bearings are
full of fresh grease.

Having noted that there could be a change in the color of Valvoline, however, since I don't run it I can not speak from experience.

Yes, Valvoline Synpower (and Mobil 1) is "expensive" when compared to other grease, however, when compared to the costs associated
with bearing failures it's a no brainer.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 4:12 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Brake shoe adjustment

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

Update
All back together, bled and adjusted so the shoes were just touching. Still have too much pedal travel and not enough stop. I will tighten the
adjusters again, probably didn't set them far enough. It was a lot of clicks, and I was a little concerned. Also think the lines may still have air.
Went thru half a quart of fluid but wish I had a pressure bleeder setup for this MC. Anyone have one to rent or sell? Not sure if Jim is still
making them.

[James Hupy]

Yes I am.
Jim Hupy

On Sep 2, 2017 8:35 AM, "Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley" <in...@hdforge.com>
wrote:

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

Great. Jim please send order info to hdforge at aol dot com
I will put a check in the mail today or can call with a credit card.
Thanks

[Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley]

James
Tried emailing you, using the email link that was with the pressure bleeder info.
Please advise payment info, shipping cost etc. I would like to get the bleeder ASAP.
Randy

[James Hupy]

Randy, I am abroad. Will be home later in the week. Try to email me then.
Jim Hupy

On Sep 5, 2017 6:31 AM, "Randy Cohen/Catherine McGinley" <in...@hdforge.com>
wrote: