[GMCnet] Onan or Generac?

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

So given the choice....would you go Onan or Generac in the same KV rating and why?
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

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[Richard Denney via Gmclist]

Onan, probably. It has always been a higher-grade product than Generac.

But when you introduce cost, and what could fit in the 20” compartment of
my 23’ coach, Generac made one that fit and was affordable.

I followed Ken Henderson down that rabbit hole. :) Both had a problem in
the first 100 hours. He replaced his with a well-conceived conversion of a
contractor generator, but I was able to repair mine by replacing the shaft
speed sensor, which required a lot of disassembly.

A reliable original Onan is a great choice, but getting to that point
depends on the starting point. And it’s extremely heavy—mine was 400
pounds, and the Generac 100.

Rick “still using the Generac 14-15 years later” Denney

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

And i know some here have tried the 36g without success the Generac would be a 52g.

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

When we evaluated radio properties for potential purchase, the lack of a genset capable of pulling the plant and one capable for the studio was
needed. If there were none or a Generac (fondly called junkerac by a lot of my peers in the industry)the price of a genset(s) was part of the
evaluation.

--johnny

--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Johnny Bridges wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 10:34

> When we evaluated radio properties for potential purchase, the lack of a genset capable of pulling the plant and one capable for the studio was
> needed. If there were none or a Generac (fondly called junkerac by a lot of my peers in the industry)the price of a genset(s) was part of the
> evaluation.
>
> --johnny

So your basically saying the price is directly proportional to the quality?

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

My 2 cents worth. It kinda comes down to the question, "Are you the kind of
guy who wants to just fix it to get through today, or a Once and it is done
forever guy". Generac runs at 3600 rpm, Onan at 1800 rpm. One is a pot
metal engine, one old school cast iron. One will outlive you, one won't.
Your choice.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

James Hupy wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 11:28

Gotcha Jim.....go Honda.....lol. :lol:

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

We didn't concern ourselves as much about price as about longterm reliability. When I retired, one of our plants had a Dear John and one had a
Kohler. They were reliable but cost a bit more in the long run to maintain than the Onans we had at the other three plants and studios. Most
reliable was a 30KW Onan which had a 300 CID Ford truck motor running on natural gas with a propane backup system.

--johnny


--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

Why put in units that are discontinued,
We can quote very competitive price on Onan.
Plus ski you what to do to install

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

jimk wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 12:27

Jim i would love a new one but the OWMBO says that the windshields come first so used its has to be....and just to be fair i would be very happy to
support your business but at 30% exchange, duty, tax plus shipping the price would be crippling.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

Back when I still was gainfully employed by the Oregon Department of
Corrections as a Vocational Instructor in the Small Engine/Power Mechanics
trade program, I had many occasions to work on projects from other
government agencies. One of the more common projects were back up
emergency generators in various sizes, from 10 KW to 30 KW. Various fuels
powered them, Natural Gas, Propane, Diesel, Gasoline, and Bio-gas, a
by-product of the sewage treatment process. Far and away, the most popular
plants were Cummins/Onan running on natural gas or propane from 1000 gallon
tanks.
Requirements for emergency back-up equipment required a quick startup
procedure that was triggered by an interruption of electricity. All of the
plants had included as part of their maintenance schedules, at least
monthly testing. Some in sensitive agencies were more frequent. So, I saw
them fairly often. Frequent oil changes on a calendar timetable, not hours
of use. Battery maintenance, cables, switch gear all got their fair share.
I saw very few Generac or Honda plants. Waukesha and Cummings
predominated the market.
Should tell you something about reliability.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

[Les Burt via Gmclist]

RickM,
While the Honda’s are damned good units, they won’t outlive an old school onan, and they cost as much or more than the Onan to fix when they fail.

As I suggested a while back, check Craigslist, Facebook market place, Kijiji etc. In the northern NY areas I frequently see Onan gensets suitable for use in our coaches. I also see the occasional EV series Honda water cooled, but they still sell on the high side, and are getting harder to find in good shape. There are a couple of Onan 4000w RV units for ~$500 currently on FB Marketplace in the New England area. There is also a 2800 microlite unit available.

A road trip is the best way to get them because you get to evaluate the genset before committing.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

The only onan I would pass on is a used Microlite. They're 3600RPM units, and the first ones had a bit of a problem making moving parts round, which
led to early failures. We went through four or five before they got their act together and quit failing commutators/ignition stuff and the like. The
last ones we got seemed to be OK. Before I'd buy a used one, I'd find out when it was made and if it's an early one, shine it on. I took one back to
Ricky (best Onan tech ever) and he quietly pointed to a pile of them in the corner of the shop. His advice was skip it for a few months, they're
supposed to be correcting the problem. I bought a two-bit Ryobi and let the remote kids use it until it croaked about a year in at which point Ricky
said the new Onans were solid. They were. Jimmy the K may have a better insight into this, it's merely our experience with them in Georgia heat in
the big city running five - six hours at a time, but a couple of dog friends who had them had the same troubles till they got newer ones.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Johnny Bridges wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 14:22

> The only onan I would pass on is a used Microlite. They're 3600RPM units, and the first ones had a bit of a problem making moving parts round,
> which led to early failures. We went through four or five before they got their act together and quit failing commutators/ignition stuff and the
> like. The last ones we got seemed to be OK. Before I'd buy a used one, I'd find out when it was made and if it's an early one, shine it on. I
> took one back to Ricky (best Onan tech ever) and he quietly pointed to a pile of them in the corner of the shop. His advice was skip it for a few
> months, they're supposed to be correcting the problem. I bought a two-bit Ryobi and let the remote kids use it until it croaked about a year in at
> which point Ricky said the new Onans were solid. They were. Jimmy the K may have a better insight into this, it's merely our experience with them
> in Georgia heat in the big city running five - six hours at a time, but a couple of dog friends who had them had the same troubles till they got
> newer ones.
>
> --johnny

Yah i saw a microlite and though to myself "that isnt going to cut it"....lol.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Les im on the hunt trust me....been burning through the sites and following up on a few of interest but there is so much conflicting info on the sites
about what is "best", even on here....lol. Im not really in a rush but we need one.

And to compound the issue im going to put 2 heat pump-A/C units on the roof...the PO took the furnace out a long time ago and that should kill 2 birds
with one stone.

Les Burt[1
> wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 14:08]RickM,

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Problem is, the Microlite was the only one designed to be fitted under the floor of a van like an Econoline or Chev. Everything else is too big in
one domension or another and had to be mounted inside the van.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Emery Stora via Gmclist]

Will that fit in a 23’ GMC ? :) :)

> On Sep 22, 2019, at 9:50 AM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> We didn't concern ourselves as much about price as about longterm reliability. When I retired, one of our plants had a Dear John and one had a
> Kohler. They were reliable but cost a bit more in the long run to maintain than the Onans we had at the other three plants and studios. Most
> reliable was a 30KW Onan which had a 300 CID Ford truck motor running on natural gas with a propane backup system.
>
> --johnny
>

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Emory, it won't fit, it's an inline six and the fan would be in front of the grille. And compared to the 455 as prime mover it's a little short on
oomph. :)

Question for Jim K - is the current Emerald series the belt drive system with the vertical shaft V twin running 2400 RPM? Fitted one in our bread
truck and it worked well.

As to heat pumps, I put one in the front of the 23'. Which still had the furnace fortunately, because below 40 degrees, they shut down. Perfect for
a chilly morning to get the chill out while the coffee perks but not much for cold unless there's a heat strip- in there too. I'd keep the furnace
'just in case'.

And as to Generac, they built a variable speed 3600 Watt genset with multiple windings to get the best of both inverter and inertia sets. It was a
great idea, and if it hadn't been built to a price point it might of been a practical one as well. Disfortunately, it was lacking some circuitry and
windings to keep it working over time. Ask Ken Henderson about his trials and tribulations with one. I gave mine to Briere along with the 23' which
had a Freight, Harbor genset installed in place of the Generac. He may have changed back, or may not have. He wanted it, I sure didn't, it's gone.

--johnny


--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Emery Stora via Gmclist]

Johnny
You missed the point of my post. You had posted "most reliable was a 30KW Onan which had a 300 CID Ford truck motor running on natural gas with a propane backup system.”

I was responding, tongue in cheek, to that sentence. I was asking if the 30KW Onan would fit into the Onan compartment on a 23 foot.
It was meant to be humorous. I was not asking if the engine would replace the 455 or 403 engines in our motorhomes. I know a 300 cid Ford engine would not work in our motorhomes.

I also knew that a 30 kWh generator would’t fit either!

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

> On Sep 22, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> Emory, it won't fit, it's an inline six and the fan would be in front of the grille. And compared to the 455 as prime mover it's a little short on
> oomph. :)
>
> Question for Jim K - is the current Emerald series the belt drive system with the vertical shaft V twin running 2400 RPM? Fitted one in our bread
> truck and it worked well.
>
> As to heat pumps, I put one in the front of the 23'. Which still had the furnace fortunately, because below 40 degrees, they shut down. Perfect for
> a chilly morning to get the chill out while the coffee perks but not much for cold unless there's a heat strip- in there too. I'd keep the furnace
> 'just in case'.
>
> And as to Generac, they built a variable speed 3600 Watt genset with multiple windings to get the best of both inverter and inertia sets. It was a

> great idea, and if it hadn't been built to a price point it might have been a practical one as well. Disfortunately, it was lacking some circuitry and

> windings to keep it working over time. Ask Ken Henderson about his trials and tribulations with one. I gave mine to Briere along with the 23' which
> had a Freight, Harbor genset installed in place of the Generac. He may have changed back, or may not have. He wanted it, I sure didn't, it's gone.
>
> --johnny
>

[Richard Denney via Gmclist]

Ha! If GMC made a 23’ flatbed trailer, maybe.

A local ham club I play radio with was gifted a 30KW Kohler, which used a
(large) four-cylinder diesel. We put it on a flatbed trailer, installed a
tank, restored it, and for a while we used it to power a contesting site
occupied by 20 people, all with campers and RVs, and not to mention the
1500-watt radios. Tom Phipps will remember that. That trailer required a
substantial tow vehicle.

But what fits in a 23’ coach is the $64 question. Nothing does. That
Generac Impact 36G was the only one that was designed for RV use. The
Impact “Plus” version was not that bad, once the birthing issues were
resolved. But I use it about two dozen hours a year, while Johnnie’s
radio-station gig trucks probably did that every week for 40 weeks a year.
Actually, it’s less than that—I don’t think I have 200 hours on it yet.

26’ coaches present more options.

Rick “who designed his generator compartment to provide relatively easy tip
access” Denney

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 6:08 PM Emery Stora via Gmclist <
gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Will that fit in a 23’ GMC ? :) :)
>

> --
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com

[Ken Henderson via Gmclist]

Since Rick's already mentioned the Generac 36G that I suckered him into,
here's the album that probably did him in.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3781-generac-impact-36g-plus-ii-installation.html

It was fine until about 75 hours of operation, then it gave trouble which I
don't even want to think about, much less discuss now. To get rid of it, I
found, on sale at Lowes, a TroyBilt portable generator. Here's its
installation album:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5330-troybilt-generator-installation.html

That was a somewhat more difficult installation, but turned out better.
The performance has been VASTLY better. I recently changed the oil in it,
probably for the first time since installing it in 2009. And that's the
ONLY thing I've done to it maintenance-wise since completing the
installation. It ALWAYS cranks right up, takes any load it's offered
without even surging, and runs until I shut it down, which has been a
couple of days later during a storm some years ago. It IS noisy, even with
two mufflers, but since we mostly use it during noon stops, it doesn't
really bother us nor neighbors ('tho' we did once in a campground have
neighbors behind us ask me to move my truck back between us to deflect some
of the sound). I wouldn't go back to any previous generator.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, Troy-Bilt APU, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

So let me ask this then....if one can fabricate etc and one was to up the genset size to reduce the chances of over working it would just picking
anything out in the market work? Or is there anything specific one should be looking for?

Is a generator a generator or is an Onan etc really different than let's say a Masrercraft?

[Ken Henderson via Gmclist]

Oh, there's lots to consider. Foremost is probably the 1800 rpm of the
Onan vs 'most everything else running at 3600 or so. RPM=Decibels. With a
23' and an already installed compartment, size was uppermost in my mind
when searching. Then there was price. Since knew from experience with the
Generac that I might have to replace it again fairly soon, that was very
important. I don't remember their prices, but I do know the TroyBilt cost
less than 1/2 what the Generac did -- and it's lasted about 5 times as
long! Since I haven't paid any attention to the features, sizes, nor
prices of the Hondas, modern Onans, etc., nothing I can add there.

Ken H.

[Les Burt via Gmclist]

Keep in mind that for some of the lower cost gensets, finding parts later on will be frustrating. The models and cofiguarations seem to change frequently, and I’d be afraid of the difficulty finding a replacement part if the unit fails while on the road. This concern alone gives strong justification for sticking with the OEM onan, or a common Honda EV. The OEM onan is well known by the vendors, and most failure prone parts are kept in stock. Same for the Honda EV series.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

[Richard Denney via Gmclist]

You and I both paid about $1500 for those Generacs, from some funky
Internet reseller who wasn’t a Generac dealer and who offered no help. But
that was half the price of any other dedicated RV generator, none of which
would have fit anyway.

This album was about soundproofing, but it contains my best pictures of the
Generac.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g4438-soundproofing.html

It was a better deal for me than for you. But I did have to make a big
repair on mine at maybe 100 hours. It wasn’t an expensive repair,
particularly. Took me a couple of hours and a $20 part.

I remember what made it the “plus” model—the dedicated inverter and
electronic engine control.

The start logic doesn’t work very well—I often have to hit the start button
four or five times to get it to stay running, though the automatic transfer
switch helps with that.

But my Onan was blowing oil and had a cracked exhaust manifold—there was a
charred area in the compartment. It was going to need a complete overhaul
with lots of new parts. The guy I gave it to used it at a hunting cabin,
where those aren’t issues.

Rick “recalling the back end of the coach covered in oil grudge after
generator use on the highway” Denney

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Are any of the units direct drive or are they belt? Sorry guys I know big gensets not these.

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Emory, I knew what you were saying, I just twisted it a bit :)

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6827-new-genset.html

Here's the album, wherein I installed the Freight, Harbor genset. It's a 7.5 Chinese kilowatt unit. It was the smallest one with an electric
self-commencer, which I wanted. The way it installs, the yank cranker is also available in times of dead batteries. I fabricated the exhaust and
hung the muffler under the back bumper. I would do three things differently if I did it again.
First, under the bumper was a poor choice for the muffler, it's too low. I'd relocate it. Second, it wants a 12V solenoid and a spring to pull the
choke on when starting and off running. Third I'd remote the air filter box, at which point everything needed for service would be easily accessible.
(You might want a different place to get crankcase pulses to run the fuel pump, I didn't want to drill into it anywhere) As installed, it worked
fine, in the chill you hadda go out and manually choke it. You might want to simply move the 220 socket to an accessible point for the shore plug
instead of wiring it in as I did after sawing up the control panel to fit. Installation took the genset, exhaust stuff, pulse fuel pump (Do NOT use
an electric pump with one of these), a bit of fuel hose and filter, and some Kendorf to make the mounts. Took a couple of days since I was cutting
and forming to fit as I went. This system saves the original shock mounts the set is mounted on. As a side benefit, I now have about a five gallon
gas tank with shutoff for rescuing coaches and a spiffy engine carrier.
I got the set at a discount, all up maybe 600 - 650 bucks. Spins the A/C, microwave, coffeepot and evrything else without a strain.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Solved this one too....just finished picking up a Honda EV6010....guess i just created another project for myself... :(

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

That's not a solution. That is admitting defeat. (Grin) You let that 1930
technology beat you down.
When the electronic control board goes haywire in that Honda (it is
already unsupported by Honda), and it will, where are you going to go for
help? Fix the ONAN. You will learn a great deal, and it will outlast you.
Just my opinion, yours may vary a bit.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

James Hupy wrote on Sun, 20 October 2019 15:10

Didnt have anything to start with or i wouldn't have been in this predicament....lol. Sad part is we will probably only use it to run the heat pump
units and not much else.

[Mark via Gmclist]

My beloved PO put in an Onan Emerald Plus 6500 watt genset, and I'm SO glad he did (he also sold it with a whopping 50 hours on the clock).

It sure seems to be a huge improvement - about 200 pounds (!) lighter, and presumably quieter and very reliable. It's considerably smaller than the
green giant it replaced, though I doubt it'd fit in a 23' generator compartment. The installation required messing around with the slide-out, so now
I think I'd have to disconnect the exhaust to pull it all the way out, and I think use a floor jack. OTOH, I haven't had to do anything other than
change the oil, so that's all a moot point.

The photo of the generator compartment is at the bottom of this page (look for the NACA ducts the PO cut in the generator door for better cooling when
running one of the rooftop A/C units while rolling)...

http://habcycles.com/gmcmh.htm
--
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen

[Dave Stragand via Gmclist]

Mark, did you use a sliding tray, or use some type of sliding rails for your Emerald? I have a similar generator (Onan 4.0 BFA) on a fixed shelf but would love some type of a slide in-out for maintenance.

-Dave
1978 Transmode near Pittsburgh

> On Oct 20, 2019, at 4:51 PM, Mark via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> My beloved PO put in an Onan Emerald Plus 6500 watt genset, and I'm SO glad he did (he also sold it with a whopping 50 hours on the clock).

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

I got thte point, Emery. I figured the only place to put it would be up front, requiring the current engine to leave. And it'd still be too large.


As to what will fit a 23', the Onan 4KW will fit. Several Freight, Harbor sets will fit. A number of 'contractor' units w3ill fit, all of which
seem to use the same basic engine. The old Kohler 4KW 'thumper' will fit. All of these will require you make a mount, and you'll have to modify the
space in most cases, by removing some of the floor behind the door. The Kohler and Onan are 1800 rpm gensets, the others are all 3600rpm.
One of the later Onans is belt drive, the alternator and engine run at different speeds. I don't think it will fit a GMC though.

--johnny

--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

My attitude is this;
Why use something few GMC people have knowledge about.
When it comes to Onan units there are lot of people and lot of information
to assist you. Also parts as well.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

[Jim Miller via Gmclist]

On Oct 20, 2019, at 4:10 PM, tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Didnt have anything to start with or i wouldn't have been in this predicament....lol.

Have 4K and 6K Onans near Cincinnati, OH in all conditions of repair and operability. Some even have their drawers and slides depending on what someone needs. Could have helped.

—Jim

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH

[Mike Kelley via Gmclist]

Jim M.:
Do you have a used electronic board for a 6000 Onan? And if so, how much would you want for one?
Mike/The Corvair a holic

Sent from my iPhone

[Jim Miller via Gmclist]

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 9:24 PM, Mike Kelley via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Do you have a used electronic board for a 6000 Onan? And if so, how much would you want for one?

Hi Mike, I have some OEM boards in the pile but I would not recommend them to anyone - not even my worst enemy. Any generator that I get my hands on gets either a Dinosaur board or a Flight Systems board. The old boards have numerous failure modes and I refuse to be involved with them as they only serve to disillusion people about the Onan.

[Jesse Farr via Gmclist]

Actually having repaired and tried to do so to some old boards, I can tell you that the availability of new boards is truly a blessing. Go new.

jofarr
Soddy daisy tn
'74,'76 & '78

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Hi Mike, I have some OEM boards in the pile but I would not recommend them to anyone - not even my worst enemy. Any generator that I get my hands on
gets either a Dinosaur board or a Flight Systems board. The old boards have numerous failure modes and I refuse to be involved with them as they only
serve to disillusion people about the Onan.

--Jim

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale

Hamilton, OH[/quote]
Jim,

Do you have a preference of those two?

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Jim Miller via Gmclist]

On Oct 22, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Matt Colie via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Do you have a preference of those two?

Hi Matt,
I have been exclusively using Flight Systems’ boards for a while now - including on my own coach. Here’s why:

I have seen with mine own eyes several failed Dino boards - all with the smoked resistor/melted relay coil failure in the part of the circuit connected to the flywheel alternator - and I have talked to other owners who have had the same experience.

I have never seen a failed Flight Systems board. That said, the sample set of FS boards has been small so far compared to the number of Dino boards - so I am not ready to draw any conclusions.

Some time ago I reverse-engineered the portion of the Dino board containing the smoked resistor and relay and found that these components are being operated WELL in excess of their ability which leads to a cascading failure - first of the relay and then of the resistor.. As an experiment I changed the relay to a 24V version and also changed the resistor to a different value and ran it on my coach for a while without problem before I switched over to the FS board as a long term solution.

Supposedly Dino had a mod for the boards that were getting smoked but I was not able to get exact details on it.

—Jim

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

I can usually heal the original boards, >if< the relays are still good. Replacing therm requires two relays and a means to mount them - which is a
P.I. A. since they're subject to vibration. If you simply 'shotgun' the capacitors and diodes, which will cost less than $5 and a bit of soldering
time, the boards usually work. You can repair burnt traces but it's tedious. The original Dinosaur boards didn't want the STOP switch held down
beyond the time it took for the engine to completely stop. I got one which burned up the series resistor for the run relay. I understand they've
improved it in later production. If you're a purist, repair the board or get hold of me about January and I'll see if I can gin you up a working
one. If you're not a purist, contact Jim Miller and get one of the new replacements.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

We stock both the Dyno and Flight boards .

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com

http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[Mike Kelley via Gmclist]

Johnny B.:
What’s the cost of one of your ginned up boards? I can wait till Jan. so may consider that!
Mike/The Corvair a holic

Sent from my iPhone

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Mike - they're freebies, I don't want support responsibility on fifty year old electronics any more than Jim Miller does, nor do I want to be tied to
a timetable. I fiddle with them when I'm bored. Remind me in January if I haven;t run any up by then.
I'm slower than usual this winter, I contracted to get a pair of microwave shots up and running in the city. Trying to coordinate licensing, riggers,
suppliers, and the stations involved. It's like herding kittens.

[Mike Kelley via Gmclist]

Thanks Johnny B.:
Will do and good luck w/ your herding of Kittens!

Mike/The Corvair a holic

Sent from my iPhone

[Mike Hamm via Gmclist]

That Ford 300 inline 6 was one of the best motors ever made.
I worked for an uncle that had a Ford flatbed truck that was his dads over 400000 miles on it when I started using it.
Over 500000 when I was done and may still be running for all I know.
Just regular oil changes and nothing fancy.

Emery Stora wrote on Sun, 22 September 2019 17:48
> Johnny
> You missed the point of my post. You had posted "most reliable was a 30KW Onan which had a 300 CID Ford truck motor running on natural gas with a
> propane backup system."
>
> I was responding, tongue in cheek, to that sentence. I was asking if the 30KW Onan would fit into the Onan compartment on a 23 foot.
> It was meant to be humorous. I was not asking if the engine would replace the 455 or 403 engines in our motorhomes. I know a 300 cid Ford engine
> would not work in our motorhomes.
>
> I also knew that a 30 kWh generator would't fit either!
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Frederick, CO
>
>
> > On Sep 22, 2019, at 4:33 PM, Johnny Bridges via Gmclist wrote:
> >
> > Emory, it won't fit, it's an inline six and the fan would be in front of the grille. And compared to the 455 as prime mover it's a little
> > short on
> > oomph. :)
> >
> > Question for Jim K - is the current Emerald series the belt drive system with the vertical shaft V twin running 2400 RPM? Fitted one in our
> > bread
> > truck and it worked well.
> >
> > As to heat pumps, I put one in the front of the 23'. Which still had the furnace fortunately, because below 40 degrees, they shut down.
> > Perfect for
> > a chilly morning to get the chill out while the coffee perks but not much for cold unless there's a heat strip- in there too. I'd keep the
> > furnace
> > 'just in case'.
> >
> > And as to Generac, they built a variable speed 3600 Watt genset with multiple windings to get the best of both inverter and inertia sets. It
> > was a
> > great idea, and if it hadn't been built to a price point it might have been a practical one as well. Disfortunately, it was lacking some
> > circuitry and
> > windings to keep it working over time. Ask Ken Henderson about his trials and tribulations with one. I gave mine to Briere along with the
> > 23' which
> > had a Freight, Harbor genset installed in place of the Generac. He may have changed back, or may not have. He wanted it, I sure didn't,
> > it's gone.
> >
> > --johnny

> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Well got it installed....quite a challenge sadly because this coach has a factory installed rear heater that takes up some of the generator bay. Next
will be wiring it, fuel line muffler and insulation for the box.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[John R. Lebetski via Gmclist]

What is " factory installed rear heater". Is this coolant heat sourced? You have me curiously intrigued
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

New people Ned to read some conversation and learn to didcribe their coach
so we do not need to ask them back to clarify.
I have few owners that have no clue of what their coach is about and refuse
to call us for help.
Good example is the sewer tank.
Lot of you think having a single tank is standard for most RV.
Well your clueless as the standard for 50 years is two tanks. Gray and
Blsck.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 27 October 2019 10:37

> What is " factory installed rear heater". Is this coolant heat sourced? You have me curiously intrigued

As JimK was alluding too.....my coach is a Hughes converted transmode. This unit was custom ordered and optioned with a engine coolant rear heater
installed. It has a fan attached to a thermostat and the heater is installed in the left side rear bench seat. In order for it to work correctly it is
boxed into the generator bay forward section basically removing half the battery area and only leaving about 26 inches for a generator. The couple
that ordered this unit lived in Canada and i suspect with our 4 seasons didnt want to freeze in the thing when headed south in the late fall.....lol.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

It really helps when an owner will state the model.
Coachman is another one along with couple other models.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

jimk wrote on Sun, 27 October 2019 19:37

Guess im guilty of that as it seems everyone has it in there signiture at the bottom of the post so i assumed.....my bad.

[Will via Gmclist]

I agree Jim,

I was surprised to learn of separate gray and black tanks. Thought it was
something new! I'm only two years into owning an RV so everything is still
a discovery... You and Matt Colie were the first people to give me their
time, explaining the way of the GMC. I'll always appreciate that!

Maybe someday I will put a gray tank onto my palm beach.

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

I have been exposed to RV since my college days in 1962 so GMC
Was nothing new, but weird in the way the had the Automotive arrogance
applied to the coach.
When I purchase one in 1980 I imidiatly squired all the information and
contacts in the nation and local.
Back then there were no internet so it was a struggle till I going through
local GMC Club.
I say 95% of owners are great people to know and to associate with.
The other 5% can go elsewhere .it really surprises me when people need
parts and have no clue that there are GMC Motorhome parts suppliers and we
can advise them on how to.

On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 6:26 AM Will via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
wrote:

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

"You can lead a horse....". Some people Know already, can't even suggest anything to them. Look at them thisaway - in the long term you'll sell them
or their successor both the correct part they cheaped out on and the proper parts to fi8x what broke from the failure of the el cheapo part.

And anent the 300 CID Ford engine, I believe they still make it as an industrial engine. I might be wrong. I first met it as a 240CID in Econolines,
not to be confused with the manifold-cast-in-head Ford inline six family. A few sedans saw the 300, and a lot of trucks. If you get the heavy duty
(sodium filled exhaust valves, rotaters, etc.) they will run forever.

--johnny


--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[John R. Lebetski via Gmclist]

Back to original post title, I say Onan Power Drawer as it was made to GM criteria. Mine starts in any weather with no primmer add-on. I pulled the
unit and cleaned up and reloomed the wiring undoing PO mess. Also put board on bench and redid any bad solder joints. New O ring on main carb needle.
Replaced carbon core ignition wires with magcore. No electronic ignition. It's been rock solid ever since. Never decarboned. At some point I should
do bearing and brushes

--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

John,
Because you maintain it and use it.
Most have no clue as to what need to have done.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[Richard Denney via Gmclist]

It depends on what you are starting with. Many buy a coach with an Onan
even more abused than the rest of it.

Mine was plain worn out. There was no air filter installed and who knows
how long that had been missing. It blew smoke and covered the back third of
the coach with a sheen of oil. It left a puddle of oil which was not from
the usual causes, which I had tried to fix. The exhaust was cracked and had
charred a part of the enclosure—I couldn’t fix that and just had to clamp a
sheet-metal patch over the cracked part so it wouldn’t set the coach on
fire. The carb was leaking, the control board relays were like they all
are, and the wiring a mess. I was going to have to do a full overhaul on
the thing, at who knows what cost. It worked no more than half the times I
wanted to use it, and even when running would turn itself off with no
warning or pattern. I spent hours rebuilding that control board, and in
those days there wasn’t a replacement. Didn’t work anyway. I’ve never had
much luck bringing dead relays back.

Unlike the 455, the Onan was not my hobby and I still work.

I don’t miss it. Not even when I had to pull the flywheel on the Generac to
replace the shaft speed sensor.

Rick “glad yours is reliable” Denney

On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 3:04 PM John R. Lebetski via Gmclist <
gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:

> Back to original post title, I say Onan Power Drawer as it was made to GM
> criteria. Mine starts in any weather with no primmer add-on. I pulled the
> unit and cleaned up and reloomed the wiring undoing PO mess. Also put
> board on bench and redid any bad solder joints. New O ring on main carb
> needle.
> Replaced carbon core ignition wires with magcore. No electronic ignition.
> It's been rock solid ever since. Never decarboned. At some point I should
> do bearing and brushes
>
--

'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

Jim Miller should have one that is is in good shape.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

I was surprised when I got the first GMC - my SOB had two tanks. After some years in GMCs though, I like the single tank setup - never had trouble
with overload or clogging. Had one fail at the outlet valve but that didn't happen because of the number of tanks under there. I figure the Generac
shook it apart.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

and further - particularly on a 23', space underneath is at a bit of a premium. Less plumbing means more turd room.