[GMCnet] Removing FI-Tech

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

I am putting the carb back on the engine and I need to get the choke heater working,
both pipes are sheered off at the surface of the plate
Where does the stove get the filtered air from?
Is it the top of the back of the Carb where there is a fitting to attach a hose the would go to the input of the choke stove on the intake manifold?

Another question is can you use copper tube to go from the choke stove to the choke?
Has anyone else tried that or would that be a problem?
It is much easier to bend and not kink.

Or Does anyone have a good part number for the tube assembly?


--
Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, FI-Tech EFI, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
GMC Dealer Training Tapes
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/

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[Chris Tyler via Gmclist]

I think youd be better off converting to an electric choke, especially since its already off.
--
76 Glenbrook

[Larry Davick via Gmclist]

How about an electric choke release? If the crossovers are blocked it’s necessary

Larry Davick
1976 Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca

> On Nov 3, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Tom Lins via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> I am putting the carb back on the engine and I need to get the choke heater working,

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Electric choke would be your easiest bet.

Question, why are you removing the Fitech?
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

6cuda6 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2019 17:29

> Electric choke would be your easiest bet.
>
> Question, why are you removing the Fitech?

This is the second unit that was on the engine, the first one lasted about 800 miles and then over about 65 miles slowly lost power until I could not
go more than 45mph with my foot to the floor.
Got it towed to Sirum's and Jeff sent the unit back to have it repaired (bad left front injector) They sent it back 3.5 weeks later after replacing
the computer. Jeff had to get them to send him
a couple new injectors and installed them. He was not happy with how it was acting and convinced them to replace the entire unit with a new one. He
installed it and road tested it for about 100 miles
We drove the 216 miles from our house and started to drive home. About 16 miles from home as we were passing the last exit on I-95 before our house it
started losing power and popping when I stepped on the gas
Luckly there was a Flying J at the end of the ramp and I could roll into there. Had to get it towed to my house since the limit on towing for my
roadside assistance is 100 miles.
Spoke to FI-Tech a bunch of times and replaced the O2 sensor and the fuel pump and I am still having issues.

So I am switching back to the Carb. Maybe I will someday try a Sniper once I see they have proved themselves.

--
Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, FI-Tech EFI, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
GMC Dealer Training Tapes
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

Tom Lins wrote on Sun, 03 November 2019 20:37

> 6cuda6 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2019 17:29
> > Electric choke would be your easiest bet.
> >
> > Question, why are you removing the Fitech?
>
> This is the second unit that was on the engine, the first one lasted about 800 miles and then over about 65 miles slowly lost power until I could
> not go more than 45mph with my foot to the floor.
> Got it towed to Sirum's and Jeff sent the unit back to have it repaired (bad left front injector) They sent it back 3.5 weeks later after
> replacing the computer. Jeff had to get them to send him
> a couple new injectors and installed them. He was not happy with how it was acting and convinced them to replace the entire unit with a new one.
> He installed it and road tested it for about 100 miles
> We drove the 216 miles from our house and started to drive home. About 16 miles from home as we were passing the last exit on I-95 before our
> house it started losing power and popping when I stepped on the gas
> Luckly there was a Flying J at the end of the ramp and I could roll into there. Had to get it towed to my house since the limit on towing for my
> roadside assistance is 100 miles.
> Spoke to FI-Tech a bunch of times and replaced the O2 sensor and the fuel pump and I am still having issues.
>
> So I am switching back to the Carb. Maybe I will someday try a Sniper once I see they have proved themselves.

I should probably add that both units were installed at Sirum's not by me.

[Ed Clerkin via Gmclist]

I am thinking of purchasing a Holley Quadrajet Sniper FI but cannot find enough reviews on the product. I did find a well designed diagram of an FI
installation on a GMC Motorhome which I plan on using for my project but I still would like to see more reviews of the product.
--
Ed Clerkin | 1974 GMC Canyon Lands | 14,445 original miles as of 6/26/19

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Tom Lins wrote on Sun, 03 November 2019 20:40

> Tom Lins wrote on Sun, 03 November 2019 20:37
> > 6cuda6 wrote on Sun, 03 November 2019 17:29
> > > Electric choke would be your easiest bet.
> > >
> > > Question, why are you removing the Fitech?
> >
> > This is the second unit that was on the engine, the first one lasted about 800 miles and then over about 65 miles slowly lost power until I
> > could not go more than 45mph with my foot to the floor.
> > Got it towed to Sirum's and Jeff sent the unit back to have it repaired (bad left front injector) They sent it back 3.5 weeks later after
> > replacing the computer. Jeff had to get them to send him
> > a couple new injectors and installed them. He was not happy with how it was acting and convinced them to replace the entire unit with a new
> > one. He installed it and road tested it for about 100 miles
> > We drove the 216 miles from our house and started to drive home. About 16 miles from home as we were passing the last exit on I-95 before our
> > house it started losing power and popping when I stepped on the gas
> > Luckly there was a Flying J at the end of the ramp and I could roll into there. Had to get it towed to my house since the limit on towing for
> > my roadside assistance is 100 miles.
> > Spoke to FI-Tech a bunch of times and replaced the O2 sensor and the fuel pump and I am still having issues.
> >
> > So I am switching back to the Carb. Maybe I will someday try a Sniper once I see they have proved themselves.
>
>
>
> I should probably add that both units were installed at Sirum's not by me.

Very interesting.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Todd Sullivan via Gmclist]

I don’t recall similar issues with the Howell system with ebl. Are those
still trouble free as I remember?

Sully
Bellevue wa

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

The Howell system, with the exception of the Holley throttle body, are as
reliable as a GM vehicle of the same era as the computer. The Holley
injectors are known to be problematical in that they come loose. Could be
an assembly problem, or a defect. Don't know. But when the GM throttle body
is used, they are very reliable. In my personal opinion, yours may vary.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

[Todd Sullivan via Gmclist]

Must be a big price point then with the Fitech? Sorry to have missed the
rest of the conversation.

Sully

[Larry Davick via Gmclist]

I installed the Howell + EBL + electronic distributor about 5 years ago. It always drove well. It had been parked with intermittent starts for about 3 years and always started right up. Now I’ve driven maybe 100 miles in the last 2 months and it starts instantly and runs beautifully.
She’s at Applied having the front end rebuilt and then we’re going to the coast! I may need to replace the batteries soon, but as far as fuel and spark it just works.

Larry Davick
1976 Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca

_______________________________________________

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

The MAD Atomic injection on my coach seems to work well with the new engine... it was prone to bog at low RPM throttle increases. I ascribed this to
the rather extreme cam in that engine. As time goes on we'll see. The PO was considering returning to the carb. I hope to have it sorted on the new
motor, it did well at test drive the other day. It doesn't have the ignition control add-on MSD sells.

=--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[RJW via Gmclist]

James Hupy wrote on Sun, 03 November 2019 23:47

> The Howell system, with the exception of the Holley throttle body, are as
> reliable as a GM vehicle of the same era as the computer. The Holley
> injectors are known to be problematical in that they come loose. Could be
> an assembly problem, or a defect. Don't know. But when the GM throttle body
> is used, they are very reliable. In my personal opinion, yours may vary.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon

I've had my Howell with EBL in for 12 years now and over 65,000 miles. It is hard to believe that its been that long (time keeps going by faster and
faster as I get older :(

I have the Holly throttle body with Holly injectors which is what was in the kit that I installed. Even though I installed the system myself, I have
had no issues. I have had issues with the computer controlled distributor that were caused by a faulty wiring harness, not related to EFI.

It starts up as easily as a new car. I would never go back to a carburetor.

--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com


Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Lenzi stuff, Manny Tranny etc.

[John R. Lebetski via Gmclist]

Yes clean air to choke is top center rear Qjet port. I believe both heat pipes are listed for sale at Applied.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Larry Davick via Gmclist]

Electric Choke
<https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/gm12-040-32.htm>

Heat stove tubes
<https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/tube.htm>
<https://www.gmcrvparts.com/product-p/stove.htm>

Jim has what you need.

Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

WE sell ALL the throttle body units.
The Howell base unit with the EBL ECM has been the most trouble free unit
of ALL, next to the MSD.
We have warranted numerous Fi Tec units in the last several month.
The Howell Based unit with the EBL is the most trouble free and gets better
fuel economy.
Also there are lot of GMC people that have them and know how to analyze
issues when a Rat eats a wire or a connector falls off. Also 95% or the
parts are available at part stores as they are same as original GM parts .
The EBL ECM out performs ALL the Throttle bodies as they do not have the
full ignition control of the EBL.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

Ok I have most of the carb connections back in place but I need to reconnect the vacuum advance to the distributor.
The vacuum Christmas tree is no longer there and was replaced by the temp sensor for the FI-Tech.
Since 99% of the time the Christmas tree directs ported vacuum to the distributor which of the two connectors
on the front of the carb did the Christmas tree connect to.
My other question is what are the two vacuum ports on the front of the Carb for?

Picture of the front of the carb here
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p66819-carb-ports-sm.html

--
Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, FI-Tech EFI, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
GMC Dealer Training Tapes
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

Tom Lins wrote on Sun, 10 November 2019 12:18

> Ok I have most of the carb connections back in place but I need to reconnect the vacuum advance to the distributor.
> The vacuum Christmas tree is no longer there and was replaced by the temp sensor for the FI-Tech.
> Since 99% of the time the Christmas tree directs ported vacuum to the distributor which of the two connectors
> on the front of the carb did the Christmas tree connect to.
> My other question is what are the two vacuum ports on the front of the Carb for?
>
> Picture of the front of the carb here
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p66819-carb-ports-sm.html

Without looking at mine i cant tell you exactly....but if no one replies before tomorrow afternoon ill go look at mine and let you know.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Tom Lins wrote on Sun, 10 November 2019 12:18

> Ok I have most of the carb connections back in place but I need to reconnect the vacuum advance to the distributor.
> The vacuum Christmas tree is no longer there and was replaced by the temp sensor for the FI-Tech.
> Since 99% of the time the Christmas tree directs ported vacuum to the distributor which of the two connectors on the front of the carb did the
> Christmas tree connect to.
> My other question is what are the two vacuum ports on the front of the Carb for?
>
> Picture of the front of the carb here
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p66819-carb-ports-sm.html

Tom,

I'm not going to be much help. I have used both ported and manifold. I think it is manifold today. If you do go to the manifold, you may have to
back down the idle air a bunch.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

Think of it this way. What does the absence of vacuum do to the
distributor? It allows the spring pushing against the vacuum diaphram to
move the movable pole piece inside the distributor so that the pole pieces
align later in the rotation of the distributor shaft. Result? It retards
the ignition timing.
What does the presence of vacuum do to the distributor? It overrides
the spring pressure, and allows the pole pieces to align earlier in the
rotation, and advances the spark timing.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

[Bruce Hart via Gmclist]

Try this:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/tvs-and-vacuum/p3341.html

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class

[tonka6cuda6--- via Gmclist]

You can run on ported or on none ported vacumm ....it just depends on camshaft profile, idle rpm and to some degree the torque converter. I would
think in our application having a functional vacuum advance would be good but i bet most would never notice if the distributor fly weights were seized
in.

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

Bruce Hart wrote on Sun, 10 November 2019 17:07

Thanks Bruce
I saw that one and it is a little unclear.

Dick Springfield sent me a very good diagram
Thanks to everyone.

--
Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, FI-Tech EFI, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
GMC Dealer Training Tapes
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/

[John R. Lebetski via Gmclist]

The diagram is pretty simple once understood. The TVS is a simple A or B vacuum switch that changes over at about 220F. So it sends ported vacuum to
the distributor about 99% of the time In the event of an overheat it flips to manifold vacuum This advances timing at idle to increase speed and
improve heat rejection.

--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Bruce Hart via Gmclist]

Tom,
Can you pass on the diagram from Springfield.

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class

[Ken Burton via Gmclist]

The port you want is on the diver's side front of the carb. The picture you saw previously posted is unclear because the port shown in the picture
for manifold vacuum is NOT in the carb. It really is a 90 degree fitting mounted in the ibntake manifold.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

Bruce Hart wrote on Sun, 10 November 2019 20:35

> Tom,
> Can you pass on the diagram from Springfield.
>
>
>

> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

The big difference with Dick's diagram is he added the small drawing of the front of the Carb, which is absolutely what I needed
Bob Burkett also sent me a close-up of the front of the Carb with labels on the picture and some more diagrams which were also very helpful.

Got it running today, now I just have to get the snorkel to remote air filter to seal tight on the top of the Carb.

--
Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, FI-Tech EFI, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
GMC Dealer Training Tapes
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

Should be able to use a stock air cleaner meant for a HEI equipped engine.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019, 6:36 PM Tom Lins via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org>
wrote:

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

That was dumb, forgot to attach the link to the picture

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p66820-vac-hose-connections-sm.html

[Billy Massey via Gmclist]

Hi Tom
Thanks for sharing the diagram.

FYI, I went in and edited the titles so that it can be found by a search.
Spelled out rather than abbreviated.

Thanks again
bdub


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of Tom Lins via Gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Removing FI-Tech

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/misc/p66820-vac-hose-connections-sm.html

[Tom Lins via Gmclist]

bdub wrote on Tue, 12 November 2019 10:06

Bdub
Thanks for adding that.

--
Tom Lins
St Augustine, FL
77 GM Rear Twin, Dry Bath, 455, FI-Tech EFI, Aluminum Radiator Quad-Bag Suspension Solar Panel
Manuals on DVD
GMC Dealer Training Tapes
http://www.bdub.net/tomlins/