[GMCnet] Inverter location and installation help

[Mike]

Hello All, I purchased the Xantrex Freedom 2000 inverter and need to arrange for the install. I would like to hear from anyone who has installed this
type of inverter or has suggestions for installation.

I understand from some of the research I've done that locating the inverter close to the house battery is ideal, however, it appears the closest I can
get is in a cabinet I'm building in the front lounge area behind the drivers seat, this makes it approximately 10' from the battery. My current set-up
is one 12V deep cycle battery located in the front right side compartment. 1975 Royale.

1) what are my options as far as cable, with the distance I require is #4-0 cable my best option?

2) is the rear of the coach an option or will this require a complete reconfigure of the existing house wiring?

3) should I replace the one 12V battery for two 6V wired in series?

I'm clearly new at this and as always appreciate your helpful advice, what did you do, what should I not do, anything else you care to suggest?

Regards,
Mike



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[Thomas Phipps]

You could wait on the 12v battery replacement with 2 x 6v to spread the cost a little over time. Helps the budget out.
My converter is behind driver's seat and battery is behind genet compartment. #4 cable makes the run. I've had no problems with this set-up. Avions
were originally wired with the battery behind the genet, with converter under the bath sink (I believe this is correct.) Both my Avions were 'touched'
by P.O.s.
Tom, MS II
--
1975 GMC Avion
KA4CSG

[Ken Henderson]

Mike,

There are several different models of the Freedom 2000; knowing which one
you've bought might be useful.

But regardless of which model, for a 2000W inverter, forget running the
12VDC wires 10' -- it's just not practical; the line loss is just too much
-- you might as well get used to thinking every time that 2000W output at
120vac means an input of 200A+ at 12VDC. Your single 12VDC battery won't
last 5 minutes at that. And the two 6VDC golf cart batteries in series
won't last much more than twice that, especially after they're a year or
two old. And every inch you add to the distance between the inverter and
the batteries will reduce that life a little bit.

What I'm saying is, put the inverter just as close to the batteries as you
possibly can, without exposing it to either the gases emitted by the
batteries or the elements. 4' would be the MOST I'd consider. That
probably means moving the house batteries to the dedicated compartment in
the rear behind the Onan and mounting the inverter under the bed (assuming
you have a rear bed coach) -- or somewhere similar.

From wherever you put the inverter, the 120vac wiring can be MUCH (1/10)
smaller than the 12VDC wires feeding it.

Tell us more about your coach, including the floorplan and we may be able
to help more.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

[Mike]

Ken,

Thank you for your feedback, the model is XANTREX FREEDOM SW2012 12V 2000W INVERTER/CHARGER. I wasn't sure it would be feasible to change over the
house set-up to the rear using the space just behind the generator for batteries (2 if igo with the 6 Volt option), can you give me an idea how this
can be accomplished?

My Royale, when I purchased it, had the kitchen in the front area, just behind the drivers seat was a small love seat then the kitchen counter
followed by the bathroom (dry) with separate shower. Just behind the bathroom wall towards the back of the coach is where the PD converter - charger
is located, right between the bathroom wall and the generator compartment.

The rear of the coach is being modified to a lounge which can convert to a bed, I may be able to accommodate the inverter in the rear area with some
effort due to the size which is approximately 13" wide by 16" long and 8" high. If using the generator compartment area for house battery set-up isn't
a major undertaking I can try working this into the rear lounge build?

I read that reducing voltage loss is critical hence positioning as close as possible to the battery, and that you should make every effort to keep the
loss below 0.075 volt. Due to the distance I was looking at and using a 2000 watt load would require using "0000" gauge wire to stay as close as
possible to the recommended .075 volt loss threshold.

I have zero knowledge in this area so I need the wisdom and experience of those that have been there and accomplished it.

Many thanks,

[Billy Massey]

Hi Mike

Would you please share your VIN with us? You can find it on the firewall
behind the passenger side hood. Not that it matters that much, I believe
you have an Avion finished GMC.

There is a space right behind the generator house that might be large
enough for you. It is right next to the rear battery compartment.

bdub

[Ken Henderson]

Mike,

Since I have a 23' coach, on which the 3' difference from your 26' is
mostly at the rear, I have no battery space at the rear. So, I'm going to
defer to those who have more similar coaches -- there are plenty here with
the knowledge to help you continue now that you recognize the importance of
proximity between the batteries and the inverter.

Yours should be an excellent installation since the inverter has all of the
most desireable features: Adequate 120vac output in true sine wave, more
than adequate 100A converter/charger output with 3-stage control, automatic
switching, etc., etc. I reviewed the installation manual; it should
provide most of the information you need. However, when I look at the
black lines in the wiring diagrams, I see cables, connectors, and physical
components; you probably need to find a nearby mentor to familiarize you
with those items.

For others interested, here's the link to the Xantrex site where there are
links to data sheets, the manual, etc:
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-sw-12v_newgen.aspx


Ken H.

[Hal StClair]

Make sure you give the inverter ventilation in where ever you mount it. And be sure to keep the inverter and batteries segregated as the battery's
gasses and inverters don't play well together. To take advantage of the 2000 watts you're going to need a lot more battery though. Having 100 amps
worth of charging sounds great but a single 12 battery will never be able to absorb the charge for more than a few minutes. I'd guess you will need at
least four six volt series/parallel wired. Your microwave will use most all of that 2000 watts of power.
Lots of information out there if you look for it but batteries seem to be a black science with lots of bad advice floating around. Some of the off
grid/solar sites have good information available.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

For the little amount of time the microwave runs, it makes sense to me to simply spin off the genset, cook dinner, and then shut it back off. Enough
battery capacity and inverter capacity to run a microwave, electric stove, or airconditioner just isn't cost effective in acquisition, operation, or
maintenance. The icebox and heater and lights and TV will run just fine on batteries and propane.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Mike]

Ken, Hal & Johnny,

Thanks very much for your ideas. I'm beginning to get a better understanding of inverter potential.

I'm hoping to receive some feedback regarding the relocation of my current house battery which is in the front of the coach to the rear with two 6
Volt batteries wired in series.

Is it a big job to relocate the main house battery to the rear of the coach, what's involved?

Hal is suggesting perhaps four of the 6 Volt batteries, if this is the case it sounds complicated with two batteries out back and two more up front
all connected together. If this is the set-up you have in your GMC can you share how this was accomplished?

[Hal StClair]

Space is always an issue for mounting batteries and you really don't want to split them up, ie. front and back. You also don't want to use different
battery's in a battery bank, a combo of 6 and 12 volt for instance. The long run from front to rear isn't recomended but you can get buy with it by
sizing your conductors correctly, maybe going with parallel runs if needed. We are quite limited in most of the GMC's unfortunately .
I only run a pair of 6 volts up front with 4/0 going to my 1000 watt true sign Magnum. A nice little unit with 4 stage, 55amp charging and auto
transfer capabilities. With 280 watts of solar on the roof it seems to work very well. I do have to run the noise maker for the micro and the 1000 is
probably over kill for what we use it for.
Isn't it all fun,, :p

Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout

[Matt Colie]

GMC Jimmy wrote on Thu, 02 March 2017 20:33

> Hello All, I purchased the Xantrex Freedom 2000 inverter and need to arrange for the install. I would like to hear from anyone who has installed
> this type of inverter or has suggestions for installation.
>
> I understand from some of the research I've done that locating the inverter close to the house battery is ideal, however, it appears the closest I
> can get is in a cabinet I'm building in the front lounge area behind the drivers seat, this makes it approximately 10' from the battery. My current
> set-up is one 12V deep cycle battery located in the front right side compartment. 1975 Royale.
>
> 1) what are my options as far as cable, with the distance I require is #4-0 cable my best option?
>
> 2) is the rear of the coach an option or will this require a complete reconfigure of the existing house wiring?
>
> 3) should I replace the one 12V battery for two 6V wired in series?
>
> I'm clearly new at this and as always appreciate your helpful advice, what did you do, what should I not do, anything else you care to suggest?
>
> Regards,
> Mike

Mike,

I did a lot of this stuff when we did boat work before the depression. We converted more than a few retired racing sloops to "Performance Cruisers".
That means making an old race boat comfortable when that had never been a consideration in the past. House electrics is always a big part. That
company is gone now, so I have time to write about a lot of this and I am still hoping to pass on some of the lessons learned.

A Xantrex Freedom 2000 is a BIG box. It needs to be someplace that it is close to the house bank, but not too close as even AGMs can create fumes
that it will not tolerate well. (AGMs just do a tiny fraction of what flooded cells will do.) It will also need free air to cool.

If you are going to put in the XF2K, do not bother with less house bank than either a single 4D (134# battery) or 2ea - GC2s (72#ea). Look among the
suppliers, there is available a battery tray that will slide out far enough to allow servicing the most inside cells. Get that one.

The closer you can get the XF2K to the house bank the better. Spend the money on copper right up front. What ever copper you buy, get marine wire.
The tinning is nice, but it is finer strand that others and to easier to handle. Without knowing your final run length, I can't suggest a minimum
cable size. Just for reference, the last full upgrade I did the bill for just the copper was 900$.

If I recall correctly, you said something about a back battery. If you have such, it is the start battery for the APU and suffers most form being
ignored and unused. You can cross that service onto your new house bank.

Other semi important thing. Make the connections to the bank from the XF2K the only connections on the bank proper. Connections to batteries are
notable unreliable and will need to be serviced. As such, a ball of cables there is no help at all. Make all those connections at the XF2K
terminals. Those should be a make once and forget.

Get enough 12-2G marine romex to do two(2, dos, zwei) runs between the Xantrex and the current AC panel. Run a circuit just for than and bring the
same back to a distribution box for such that you might like to have on the inverter. The XF2K has a transfer inside it already, so you might as well
use it.

You can remove your existing converter. If it is a buzzbox, offer it to someone that does electronics, it will be a great bench supply and the noise
will keep him awake. You can use that space for the new subpanel.

If you plan to drycamp at all, this would be a really good time to include a real battery monitor like a Bogart Trimetric or a Xantrex Link in the
system.

This will be pretty serious tear-up, so you might as well get it right the first time.

If you have questions or need other suggestions, I here and I do read private messages when I read the forum.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Gerald Work]

Hi Mike,

A while back I did a presentation at one of the rallies on how to add significant battery capacity (460 amp hours) to a GMC. That presentation should Give you a good background on 12vdc and 120vac power inside your coach and the various components required to do it right the first time. You can download that presentation (living large in your GMC) from either the GMC page on my web site (jerry work.com) or from GMCWS.ORG, GMCMI.COM or GMCCascaders.com and perhaps others.

Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
http://jerrywork.com

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

One thing I'll add. A quick search on the net shows #6 marine cable at 2.99 a foot, and #6 welding cable at .50 a foot. The welding cable is just as
flexible, it just isn't tinned. Unless you propose to go floating in the GMC, the tinning is overkill. That price difference follows along through
pretty much all gauges.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Matt Colie]

Johnny Bridges wrote on Sat, 04 March 2017 12:34

> One thing I'll add. A quick search on the net shows #6 marine cable at 2.99 a foot, and #6 welding cable at .50 a foot. The welding cable is
> just as flexible, it just isn't tinned. Unless you propose to go floating in the GMC, the tinning is overkill. That price difference follows along
> through pretty much all gauges.
>
> --johnny

Johnny,

Your buying it in the WRONG place. My supplier says my price is 0.78 cut to length at less than 25. You might pay more, but nothing like 3$.
Where did you price? Waste Marine???

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Just the first couple of places a Google search turned up. The point being, welding cable is cheaper than marine - which isn't surprising considering
the other step to manufacture marine cable. I get it locally off Craigslist.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Mike]

Thanks for all your help fellows, this is going to require a bit more research to determine what my needs will be.

This is my first motorhome and I can't say at this time how much dry camping I will be doing and I won't know my true needs until I spend some time in
the GMC.

I felt that now would be the time to plan for specific items like the inverter while undertaking the interior renovation. The learning curve is
steeper than I anticipated, actually I didn't know what to expect but I was looking forward to the challenge.

I may begin with two 6 volt batteries in the rear behind the Onan if, as I have mentioned in previous posts, the effort to undertake this location
switch for the house battery isn't major. If it is then I may leave it until next winter once I've had a season using the motorhome and determining
what my needs will be, if it isn't a big job I will do it now.

Any additional information regarding the house setup relocation to the rear will be very helpful in deciding?

Stay well,

[Ken Henderson]

Mike,

I don't think you've ever told us what model GMC you have, nor your
location. It's very useful for us to know your location (city at least),
the model and year of your GMC, and if there are any unique features about
the coach. With that information we can provide more accurate assistance,
and may be able to suggest someone nearby to help you.

That information is particularly important now: It's very likely that your
coach is already equipped to accept a rear-mounted battery. Some of the
components may still be in place, making it easy to move the house
battery(s) to the rear. Someone with the same model you have can advise
you what to check for.

Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL,
Manny Brakes & 1-Ton, etc., etc., etc.
www.gmcwipersetc.com

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Mike <jimmyroc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all your help fellows, this is going to require a bit more
> research to determine what my needs will be.

> ​...