[GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMC Motorhome?

[Chris Orr]

I've just joined this mailing list in order to get some technical
details from owners who may have performed fuel saving modifications. I
am interested in getting a motorhome and have considered the GMC
Motorhome for it's spaciousness and contemporary and clean-lined design.
It's a very stylish vehicle even in 2014! I've read somewhere that
adding fuel injection and modifying the top gear ratio will improve the
economy well over the notorious 6-8 mpg I've read about. If anyone has
done this, what real world MPG ratings have you had after mods? By mpg,
I mean miles per American gallon, not the imperial gallon.

Apart from the above mods, is there a diesel engine that might fit this
coach? If so, has anyone done it and what is the real world MPG for a
diesel engine. In Australia, many RVers use a Toyota Coaster diesel bus
which can be imported. Of course it's not as lovely as the GMC, but it
does have a fuel economy of 12l/100km or 20MPG (American gallon), which
is only 1/3 the fuel consumption of the GMC. Is this possible to achieve
with the GMC, with its double axle rear wheel?

Thanks,

Chris.
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[Keith V]

8 to 10 depending on if you tow...
12 if you spend 10,000 on a 8.1 vortech...

--
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
Mounds View. MN

[Robert Mueller]

According to Marc Hogenboom 14-15 with his diesel powered GMC.

Regards,
Rob M.

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith V

8 to 10 depending on if you tow...
12 if you spend 10,000 on a 8.1 vortech...

Keith

[Ken Burton]

My stock engine 26 foot GMC will do 10 mpg if I keep it at 60 mph or below with the AC off. Of course everyone else on the road wants to run 75 mph. You soon learn to just ignore them.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

[Chris Orr]

Thanks Robert,

How can I contact Marc Hogenboom. I'd like to find out what diesel
engine he put in, and what driving style he does to get this mileage.

Cheers,
Chris.

[Robert Mueller]

Chris,

Here you go:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3432-restoration-and-diesel-conversion.html

I'm going to send you some info specific for Aussies Off Net.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Orr
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 3:54 PM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from aGMCMotorhome?

Thanks Robert,

How can I contact Marc Hogenboom. I'd like to find out what diesel
engine he put in, and what driving style he does to get this mileage.

Cheers,
Chris.

[gene barrow]

Chris,
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it doesn't matter which diesel engine you install or what your driving style is it will take forever to offset the acquisition and installation cost for the diesel with fuel cost savings.
So if your idea is save money by increasing mpg- you can't get there from here. But, if you like to change things just because you can, then then enjoy yourself.


--
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach

[Trevor Pordage]

Chris

i reckon you could do an LPG conversion for around 2-3 Grand scrounging secondhand parts and doing a lot of the install yourself this will give you about the same running costs as Deisel and still retain the 455
--
Trevor
Brisbane Australia
Siesta Koala 76 Edgemont (old Bobby Moores)
71 Cadillac Eldo Convert
58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham Project

[gene Fisher]

and that's the truuuttttthhhh.

we have spent 20 years, doing this stuff, and been down these roads, over,
and over...

so do it, if you like it, but for the right reasons :>)
erf

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[Chris Orr]

Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will
because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking
at something with a modern mileage economy instead.

[Ken Henderson]

Chris,

Before you rule out the GMC, be sure you consider the whole costs of
ownership. Fuel cost may prove to be less important than acquisition cost,
taxes (especially age-determined annual ones), recurring maintenance costs
(especially the necessity for "professional" service, the availability of
parts and advice, and perhaps most significant, depreciation.

It's hard to beat the GMC's total cost-per-mile over time.

JMHO,


Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com

[gmccoop]

What sort of economy are you looking for?  Buy any new actual motorhome, not a van loaded heavy with enough interior room for Gigit, your mileage will be lless than 10 mpg.  Pusher diesel will require a mortgage and any repairs not under some warranty will melt your charge card!  The GMC motorhome was thrown into a wind tunnel to find it has a slick shape to 58 mph which means I don't care what it is, nothing will tet better mileage at 60, mileage is a factor of drag not hp or even torque.  The less air you push the more effective the drive train..... period!  If you talk size, cost, maintenance cost, comfort and yes style good luck finding anything "better".  The GMC is the cheapest and best performance toy in the box!  The laws of physics don't change, the design of the GMC was way to perfect a match of engineering and design were and still are way ahead of the curve.  You can't pull weight cheap unless you use a locomotive, we are the leader, that's why we are still here keeping these beautiful pieces of equipement running!  The GMC is the real deal.  Opinions may vary but you can't break the laws of physics.

Jim Bounds

-------- Original message --------
From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
Date: 02/24/2014 5:02 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?

[Peer Oliver Schmidt]

> What sort of economy are you looking for? Buy any new actual motorhome, not a van loaded heavy with enough interior room for Gigit, your mileage will be lless than 10 mpg. Pusher diesel will require a mortgage and any repairs not under some warranty will melt your charge card! The GMC motorhome was thrown into a wind tunnel to find it has a slick shape to 58 mph which means I don't care what it is, nothing will tet better mileage at 60, mileage is a factor of drag not hp or even torque. The less air you push the more effective the drive train..... period! If you talk size, cost, maintenance cost, comfort and yes style good luck finding anything "better". The GMC is the cheapest and best performance toy in the box! The laws of physics don't change, the design of the GMC was way to perfect a match of engineering and design were and still are way ahead of the curve. You can't pull weight cheap unless you use a locomotive, we are the leader, that's why we are still here
keeping these beautiful pieces of equipement running! The GMC is the real deal. Opinions may vary but you can't break the laws of physics.
>

Truer words were rarerly spoken :)

--
Best regards

Peer Oliver Schmidt
the internet company
PGP Key ID: 0x83E1C2EA

[Robert Mueller]

Ken,

I thought Chris was in Australia so I sent him a whole bunch of information on diesel's conversions and gave him my contact details
in Sydney so I could walk him through the import process; however, it turns out Chris lives in British Columbia.

In a private email he noted that he has zeroed in on getting a Vixen. I have seen photos of them and they look pretty cool too but I
know nothing about them so I refrained from commenting.

I agree with your assessment of the GMC from a cost-per-mile / cost of ownership.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----

From: Ken Henderson

Chris,

Before you rule out the GMC, be sure you consider the whole costs of
ownership. Fuel cost may prove to be less important than acquisition cost,
taxes (especially age-determined annual ones), recurring maintenance costs
(especially the necessity for "professional" service, the availability of
parts and advice, and perhaps most significant, depreciation.

It's hard to beat the GMC's total cost-per-mile over time.

JMHO,

Ken

[Johnny Bridges]

At 55 on Cruse and real gasoline, my 23' >once< did 12 from Asheville to Braselton (all downhill freeway).  Punched t6o 2500, it shows 62, does about 65.  No toad just at 10, toad just at 9.  This on a box stock driveline and at the time 90k miles.  I don't see it doing a lot better anytime soon.  On feces gasoline when the real stuff isn't available, it sags  to 9 solo, just above 8 toading.

--johnny


________________________________
From: Ken Burton <n9...@comcast.net>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:29 PM

Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?

[Johnny Bridges]

If your prime concern is mileage over cost to acquire and maintain, unless you propose to live in the thing and drive it daily, it probably isn't going to matter.  Consider, I've run mine about ten thousand miles in a couple of years.  At 9mpg and 3.25 a gallon, it's cost me $361 a thousand to run it.  at 15 - which I question but anyway - and 3,90 a gallon for Diesel, it costs 259 a thousand.  Saves maybe 500 bux a year.  Relative to an engine swap, not a poot in a whirlwind.  Now if you ran it the same thirty thousand a year I seem to do in a car, it becomes somewhat more attractive but still doesn't pay out.  I discount  the increased maintenance costs of the diesel here.
As an interesting exercise, however, it sounds like complicated fun.

--johnny


________________________________
From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 5:02 AM

Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?

[John R. Lebetski]

Grade and winds are the 2 external factors we have little control over. If all your mechanicals are tweeked and you keep you foot out if it then 10 MPG is realistc average. A sustained 30 mph wind can add or subtract 5 mpg to the 10avg depending on the vector. You are not realistically considering that in a motorhome a very large day count per year the key is OFF and not draining your wallet. Also factor in tradtiional vacation airfares, hotels and restaurant meals and the GMC is probably the most inexpensive vacation option. When buying any used old vehicle there is the initial expense of going through all the systems to insure consistent reliability.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
Source America First

[Johnny Bridges]

 

.Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will

>because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking
>at something with a modern mileage economy instead.

Well, I use the thing to go to dog shows.  It gets roughly half the mileage my Mopar minivan(s) get, they're about as small as I can use to haul a dog or two (100 - 120 pounds) plus show tack. RV site runs about half a motel.   Since most show sites have RV facilities, I don't have the hassle of schlepping dogs back and forth motel to show, finding someplace to set up my tack in the grooming area, keeping the dogs in tow in a close area, etc.  I figure it ends up costing me about the same either way.  I've the added benefit of stepping out the door to the canopy and grooming stuff, and walking to ringside in five minutes or less.  And, I can cook meals which work better for me that the (delicious but not real healthy for a diabetic)  stuff available at the show sites.  All up, I figure the money is a wash and the convenience leans heavily towards the GMC.  I can't find anything else with a full bathtub under 50 Large anyhow.
I looked at some older RVs, Vixen didn't have the room or the installed base to support it.  I have visions of RD'S Service in Gastonia putting a water pump on one with no notice in a day and getting me back on the road to the show in Salem VA for $550 or so.  Same for the Ultravan, plus I had enough trouble keeping Corvair engine operating in a 500 coupe.  Don't believe I want to mess with it in an RV.

--johnny

[Tony]

USAussie wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 07:57

Rob,

Vixens are cool. When I worked on consignment as a mechanic for a small shop I had a customer who had the 5 cylinder diesel.

The last job I did on it was a timing belt.
It took special tools to set up the pump and it was not worth the shop or a mechanic to buy them for a one time job.

However, the customer want to know who was working on it and the Vixen group has one of, if not the only support system of its kind - that I have ever heard of or had the fortune to be a part of.

The Vixen owner signs up in the club/group and has nation wide support.

I called the Vixen shop and gave them the owner's info. They spoke with the owner and shipped the tools needed on his credit card. Once I was finshed I shipped them back. The owner only had to pay the shipping cost and the deposit for the tools was refunded to his card. Their tech support is great too. But then again I was in the USA and not British Columbia. :)

--
Tony (Ontario Canada) Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm. Someday I hope to build the garage of my dreams. We have 4 Ultravans & 2 Corvairs. Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.

[dwayne jacobson]

Hi Chris;
so it appears you are from BC. I too live there - White Rock in fact and
in addition to my coach there are several other BC GMC coach owners.
I would be happy to let you view our coach, go for a drive, ,aybe even let
you drive it. Can then talk about all the pros and cons.
my email is dwayne....@gmail.com

Before buying the GMC I too looked at a Vixen - rear engine - nice but then
I looked at the communities and resources of both and GMC won GOLD.
I doubt you will find a better support group than right here.

regards
Dwayne

--
Dwayne Jacobson
White Rock BC
Cell: 604-644-8090

[Johnny Bridges]

The Black List is the same thing on an informal basis.   The very situation you describe is why ultimately the Vixen didn't suit my needs- which are admittedly somewhat different from the average RVer.  We got 'ol George' to repair my pulley when the pump died and trashed it, had we not, I still had time to call the Left Coast and get one on the plane for early morning delivery.  Between our suppliers, I can do that for dam' near every part on the miotorhome that isn't available down at Advance. 
I applaud your choice, the Vixens ought to be kept going just like the GMCs.

And as an aside, I'm told the three sheave pulley is common only to the motorhome installation.  True or not true, gurus?

--johnny




________________________________
From: Tony <Ultrava...@yahoo.com>

 
> In a private email he noted that he has zeroed in on getting a Vixen. I have seen photos of them and they look pretty cool too but I
> know nothing about them so I refrained from commenting.
>
> I agree with your assessment of the GMC from a cost-per-mile / cost of ownership.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Henderson
>
> Chris,
>
> Before you rule out the GMC, be sure you consider the whole costs of
> ownership.  Fuel cost may prove to be less important than acquisition cost,
> taxes (especially age-determined annual ones), recurring maintenance costs
> (especially the necessity for "professional" service, the availability of
> parts and advice, and perhaps most significant, depreciation.
>

[Mickey Space Ship Shuttle]

All 12000 gmc owners are laughing when you say this, they are great for gas for the size and power.

I demur. You would be a lucky persons just to have one and be on this great list to help you find the truth.

Mickey anaheim ca. made in the space age, 1977 gmc palm beach motor home.

[Sammy Williams]

Owning a 454 Camaro that gets 10mpg, using a GMC is a bonus!

S. Williams

[Matt Colie]

Chris Orr wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 05:02

> Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking at something with a modern mileage economy instead.

Chris,

If that is the basis for your decision, I suggest you start a spreadsheet and do a careful and complete analysis and you will find out that the investment costs much more than the fuel in most cases. Worse than that is that if you buy new, the depreciation (that we don't have any off) is a real killer if you look at the coach on a real cost basis.

We now live much of our life (by necessity) at the bottom right corner of a spreadsheet. The thing that keeps amazing me it is less costly to take the antique coach places than it would be to drive a high MPG car and stay at motels and eat at restaurants. And, I can still have morning coffee before I get dressed.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic, once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
'73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Skip Hartline]

I don't consider 10MPG bad since I saw a big class C winneboxo on a motor channel show and they were proud of the "nominal 6.8MPG" it got. Gives you whole new perspective. Another thought is you might be able to find an SOB that get 15 plus but will you be able to afford whatever fuel with the mortgage you'll have to take out to get it.
Skip Hartline

[mike foster]

Unless your name is BOB GLIDDEN!!

I think he had his won private set of those things!


Jim Bounds wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 06:17
>  The laws of physics don't change.  Opinions may vary but you can't break the laws of physics.

>
> Jim Bounds
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
> Date: 02/24/2014 5:02 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?
>
> Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will
> because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking
> at something with a modern mileage economy instead.
>
> On 2/24/2014 1:43 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> > and that's the truuuttttthhhh.
> >
> > we have spent 20 years, doing this stuff, and been down these roads, over,
> > and over...
> >
> > so do it, if you like it, but for the right reasons :>)
> > erf
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:18 PM, gene barrow <barro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Chris,
> >> Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it doesn't matter which diesel
> >> engine you install or what your driving style is it will take forever to

> >>   offset the acquisition and installation cost for the diesel with fuel cost
> >> savings.
> >>   So if your idea is save money by increasing mpg- you can't get there from

[mike foster]

I don't tow...just another reason we bought the GMC over much larger, more 'modern' and more things to break models. The GMC goes anywhere I need to go without a tag-a-long out back. Just to prove my suspicions, I went to my local Ford dealer and test drove an F-250 S/D diesel, 4 door, long bed dually. I drove over in the GMC. The salesman asked why I was looking at a truck and I told him I was doing a stare and compare. The GMC was easier to drive.

I don't drive fast, I don't stand on it at a light. On the trip back from Phoenix we got about 10. That is about the same as my 1966 SS Chevelle with a 1969 427 open-chambered L-88 and 4:30 gear got back in 1970.

If I want mpg I have 2 motorcycles that get 45-50 and 60-65. But you cannot step back to the kitchen for coffee or to the head when you need to!

[Sigmund Frankenfelter]

I am at a little over 10. None of us like that and it's why there is this ongoing search for a modern engine and/or throttle body fuel injection. I rigged up an air scoop, mounted facing front at the grill. I figure there is not much more that can be done really inexpensively.

I suppose that some of us are also waiting for hybrid technology to make its way into motorhomes. Those fellows in, I think< Detroit who are developing a system that is contained inside the wheels (not including the batteries) come to mind. There may be enough room underneath to fit some modern batteries in there

The shape of our coaches is pretty modern, judging by the number of its features that have been incorporated by other motorhome brands. They are still worth keeping.

[Chris Orr]

These are all good points that everyone has made about the cost of
ownership rather than just the cost per mile. I've just done a little
further research on the Vixen and it's interesting to note that its
inspiration of conception was the GMC. The Vixen's designer had taken a
family vacation in a rental GMC and come back thinking- "how can I do
this better?" Here's a great blog by a Vixen owner who first met the
designer just before production of the Vixen:

http://padgett.performanceresearch.us/cars/mgr.htm


In the end, personally, I think the GMC, as lovely a design as it is, is
just too large a vehicle for me, whereas the Vixen is just right. I like
the fact that it just about fits into a standard North American parking
spot. This makes it possible to park anywhere. Still, it offers all the
comforts necessary and the interior design innovations required to cope
with the smaller space are simply spectacular. Also, I really believe in
innovative design, and this is why I am attracted to the Vixen, plus
initial price is not terribly far from the GMC and there is a parts and
support outlet in Montana plus the owner's forum.

Rob, thanks for sending me the video of the diesel conversion. Diesels
have come a long long way since the 70s, so if there is an owner who has
installed a modern diesel or a Japanese or European diesel engine that
doesn't shake, rattle and make a racket like the one I saw, that would
be the way to go- again there would probably be no cost benefit, just
the benefit of elegance and better mileage for the future. Happily, the
Vixen comes in both diesel and gasoline models. In Vancouver, BC,
gasoline now costs CAD$1.33/l (US$4.54/USgallon) while diesel costs
$1.49 (US$5.08/USgallon) so I am not decided which is the way to go yet,
but this article from a British newspaper is an eye-opener:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9407960/The-hidden-cost-of-diesel-cars.html

[mike foster]

Our 11 year old granddaughter asked the other day if flying to Yellowstone wouldn't be less expensive that 10 mpg. Look at it this way, drive to the airport, pay $10-20 per day to park your car, hundreds for the tickets, rental car, hotel ($150 per day), restaurant food 4 times a day ($150 per day). Vs $300-400 per day for gas if you run out a tank. You get to SEE the country, stop when you like, no PITA flyers from hell, etc. etc.

I'll wager the difference is not enough to worry about.

Chris Orr wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 04:02

[Keith V]

I can tow my 10 mpg Corvette to a show / race and frequently stay cheap or free.
And the GMC will probably get 8 towing it.

Did I mention I get to stay at the track?

that said.. it's not a cheap hobby.
If you want to save money, stay home.
--
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
Mounds View. MN

[Chris Orr]

Rob,

Great pics and some people are brave! I love working on design and
houses, but I don't think I would be brave enough for this!

Cheers,

Chris.
On 2/23/2014 9:12 PM, Robert Mueller wrote:
> Chris,
>
> Here you go:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3432-restoration-and-diesel-conversion.html
>
> I'm going to send you some info specific for Aussies Off Net.

>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
> -----Original Message-----

> From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Orr
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 3:54 PM
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from aGMCMotorhome?
>

> Thanks Robert,
>
> How can I contact Marc Hogenboom. I'd like to find out what diesel
> engine he put in, and what driving style he does to get this mileage.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris.
>
>

[Chris Orr]

Gene,

Makes absolute sense and I am not brave enough!

On 2/23/2014 9:18 PM, gene barrow wrote:
>
> Chris,
> Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it doesn't matter which diesel engine you install or what your driving style is it will take forever to offset the acquisition and installation cost for the diesel with fuel cost savings.
> So if your idea is save money by increasing mpg- you can't get there from here. But, if you like to change things just because you can, then then enjoy yourself.
>
>

[Chris Orr]

Thanks Trevor,

Makes sense- I would never be brave enough to consider an engine switch
to diesel anyway and the rattles and noise I saw on the video of a
diesel one, would put me off totally!

On 2/24/2014 1:24 AM, Trevor Pordage wrote:
>
> Chris
>
> i reckon you could do an LPG conversion for around 2-3 Grand scrounging secondhand parts and doing a lot of the install yourself this will give you about the same running costs as Deisel and still retain the 455

[mike foster]

They come in 23 ft models.

Chris Orr wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 14:50

[Kingsley Coach]

Chris
I don't care what I get for mileage.
I don't have motel bills, camp ground bills or food bills unless we decide
to dine out. I have a cottage and I spend a lot of time in it. It runs fine
and like a cottage, there is always some little convenience mod I can do
to amuse myself.
On wet, rainy, cold days, I have lots of room to stand and look out the
window. lol
Should I require a cold beer or a tip on where to get a part locally, or a
dinner date with Lorraine and myself, I take out my copy of the Black List.
Parking? I have parallel parked my 26fter in Quebec City, it only requires
2 spaces with room left over.

Good luck with the Vixen, you aren't the only guy on here who knows more
than the rest of us.

Mike in NS

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

* At my age, getting lucky means walking into a room and remembering what I
came for.

[Robert Mueller]

G'day,

I sent Chris this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbK-ZLYJG3o&list=PL3Cyd37GUSdRw9kKYSZcp0xHkSNpA7Tsm

I wanted to send him the link to Marc Hogenboom's first start up but it seems to have disappeared from YouTube.

Mark put in a turbocharged 6.5 Diesel.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

[Ronald Pottol]

I do wonder how much you are loosing with the GMC transmission, you only
have three speeds, and a non locking torque converter. If you can live with
the size of the Vixen (for example, I want 4 beds, so the kids and I don't
have to share, so no Vixen for me), they have many great features, from
fitting in a standard garage, to 30mpg on the freeway. But if you are at
all tall, you need to pop the top to stand up straight, etc, etc. Doing
some very crude back of the envelope kind of extrapolation, the GMC might,
in theory, be able to hit 18mpg with a sufficiently ideal drive train (and
some of the people with diesel conversions claim 15-18). But there is no
way to do that without spending so much money you will never make it back.
There is nothing as compact as the TH425 based designs that can handle the
load.

--
Plato seems wrong to me today.

[Ronald Pottol]

As for hybrids, they are great for stop and go, but cruising down the
freeway, all you are doing is dragging a huge battery pack along.

I have daydreamed about some sort of low speed, low power electric drive
for the rear wheels, just to get unstuck.

[A.]

Ronald Pottol wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 17:19

> As for hybrids, they are great for stop and go, but cruising down the freeway, all you are doing is dragging a huge battery pack along.
>
> I have daydreamed about some sort of low speed, low power electric drive for the rear wheels, just to get unstuck.

Go to a battery-less hybrid. Like a freight train locomotive. Engine to big-@$$ generator to motors at the wheels. Eliminates all the drive train stuff that wastes gas, like transmission, final drive, CV joints. You get the idea.
--
'73 23' Sequoia For Sale
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
UA (Upper Alabama)
CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored to service.

[Robert Mueller]

Mike,

Yes and no.

Using a GMC for basic transport from point A to point B doesn't stack up against other means of travel.

John Sharpe and I ran the numbers last year when we decided to attend the Coos Bay Rally and it was much cheaper for two people to:

1) have his son drive us to the airport
2) fly United to Eugene, OR (economy plus class)
3) rent an Avis car
4) stay at the hotel next to the RV Park ($85 per night)
5) pay for a tank of gas
6) fly back to Houston
7) have his son pick us up at the airport

However, as you note "You get to SEE the country, stop when you like" if you take your GMC. BTW luckily we didn't run into PITA
flyers.

By the way I have a Global Entry card issued by the US Government, this allows me to bypass the long lines at immigration and use a
machine. It also gives me access to the Trusted Traveler program which has special lines and security procedures. If you're a US
Citizen click on the link below for more information about these programs:

http://www.dhs.gov/trusted-traveler-programs

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of mike foster
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 9:17 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from aGMCMotorhome?

[Chris Orr]

Ken,

Thanks for your suggestions. Between the GMC and Vixen:

Initial purchase price- similar
Plate, registration, insurance, road taxes- similar
Maintenance- indeterminate, but might be similar
Professional service- I am rather mechanically handy- probably not needed
Parts, service, advice- all available for both in good quantities
Depreciation- Vixen will probably increase in price more than GMC as so
few were made

Chris

On 2/24/2014 3:19 AM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Chris,
>
> Before you rule out the GMC, be sure you consider the whole costs of
> ownership. Fuel cost may prove to be less important than acquisition cost,
> taxes (especially age-determined annual ones), recurring maintenance costs
> (especially the necessity for "professional" service, the availability of
> parts and advice, and perhaps most significant, depreciation.
>
> It's hard to beat the GMC's total cost-per-mile over time.
>
> JMHO,
>
>

> Ken H.
> Americus, GA
> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
> www.gmcwipersetc.com

[Chris Orr]

No rocket science, GMC weighs 12,000lbs, Vixen 6,000. Vixen is more
aerodynamic. The gas model gets more than twice the distance on a gallon
of gas, diesel gets almost 3 times. No need to redefine relativity! :)

On 2/24/2014 4:17 AM, gmccoop wrote:
> What sort of economy are you looking for? Buy any new actual motorhome, not a van loaded heavy with enough interior room for Gigit, your mileage will be lless than 10 mpg. Pusher diesel will require a mortgage and any repairs not under some warranty will melt your charge card! The GMC motorhome was thrown into a wind tunnel to find it has a slick shape to 58 mph which means I don't care what it is, nothing will tet better mileage at 60, mileage is a factor of drag not hp or even torque. The less air you push the more effective the drive train..... period! If you talk size, cost, maintenance cost, comfort and yes style good luck finding anything "better". The GMC is the cheapest and best performance toy in the box! The laws of physics don't change, the design of the GMC was way to perfect a match of engineering and design were and still are way ahead of the curve. You can't pull weight cheap unless you use a locomotive, we are the leader, that's why we are still here
keeping these beautiful pieces of equipement running! The GMC is the real deal. Opinions may vary but you can't break the laws of physics.

>
> Jim Bounds
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
> Date: 02/24/2014 5:02 AM (GMT-05:00)

> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a
> GMCMotorhome?
>

> Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will
> because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking
> at something with a modern mileage economy instead.
>
> On 2/24/2014 1:43 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
>> and that's the truuuttttthhhh.
>>
>> we have spent 20 years, doing this stuff, and been down these roads, over,
>> and over...
>>
>> so do it, if you like it, but for the right reasons :>)
>> erf
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:18 PM, gene barrow <barro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it doesn't matter which diesel
>>> engine you install or what your driving style is it will take forever to
>>> offset the acquisition and installation cost for the diesel with fuel cost
>>> savings.
>>> So if your idea is save money by increasing mpg- you can't get there from
>>> here. But, if you like to change things just because you can, then then
>>> enjoy yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gene Barrow
>>> Lake Almanor, Ca.
>>> 1976 Palm Beach

[Chris Orr]

Thanks for that information. What in the world is "feces gasoline". I'm
all curious now!

Chris
On 2/24/2014 5:37 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> At 55 on Cruse and real gasoline, my 23' >once< did 12 from Asheville to Braselton (all downhill freeway). Punched t6o 2500, it shows 62, does about 65. No toad just at 10, toad just at 9. This on a box stock driveline and at the time 90k miles. I don't see it doing a lot better anytime soon. On feces gasoline when the real stuff isn't available, it sags to 9 solo, just above 8 toading.
>
> --johnny
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Burton <n9...@comcast.net>
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:29 PM

> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?
>
>
>
>

> My stock engine 26 foot GMC will do 10 mpg if I keep it at 60 mph or below with the AC off. Of course everyone else on the road wants to run 75 mph. You soon learn to just ignore them.

[Chris Orr]

I hear ya, it would definitely be too complicated a make-work project
for me!

On 2/24/2014 6:19 AM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> If your prime concern is mileage over cost to acquire and maintain, unless you propose to live in the thing and drive it daily, it probably isn't going to matter. Consider, I've run mine about ten thousand miles in a couple of years. At 9mpg and 3.25 a gallon, it's cost me $361 a thousand to run it. at 15 - which I question but anyway - and 3,90 a gallon for Diesel, it costs 259 a thousand. Saves maybe 500 bux a year. Relative to an engine swap, not a poot in a whirlwind. Now if you ran it the same thirty thousand a year I seem to do in a car, it becomes somewhat more attractive but still doesn't pay out. I discount the increased maintenance costs of the diesel here.
> As an interesting exercise, however, it sounds like complicated fun.
>
> --johnny
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 5:02 AM

> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?
>
>

> Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will
> because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking
> at something with a modern mileage economy instead.
>
>
> On 2/24/2014 1:43 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
>> and that's the truuuttttthhhh.
>>
>> we have spent 20 years, doing this stuff, and been down these roads, over,
>> and over...
>>
>> so do it, if you like it, but for the right reasons :>)
>> erf
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:18 PM, gene barrow <barro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it doesn't matter which diesel
>>> engine you install or what your driving style is it will take forever to
>>> offset the acquisition and installation cost for the diesel with fuel cost
>>> savings.
>>> So if your idea is save money by increasing mpg- you can't get there from
>>> here. But, if you like to change things just because you can, then then
>>> enjoy yourself.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gene Barrow
>>> Lake Almanor, Ca.
>>> 1976 Palm Beach

[Bruce Hart]

Gas with ethynol

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class

[Chris Orr]

Good advice, but I don't need a spreadsheet. The calculations are easy
enough done mentally. If one motorhome does everything the other does
and costs are the same except 1/2 or less for gas, why take out the
computer?

On 2/24/2014 10:37 AM, Matt Colie wrote:
>
> Chris Orr wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 05:02
>> Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking at something with a modern mileage economy instead.
> Chris,
>
> If that is the basis for your decision, I suggest you start a spreadsheet and do a careful and complete analysis and you will find out that the investment costs much more than the fuel in most cases. Worse than that is that if you buy new, the depreciation (that we don't have any off) is a real killer if you look at the coach on a real cost basis.
>
> We now live much of our life (by necessity) at the bottom right corner of a spreadsheet. The thing that keeps amazing me it is less costly to take the antique coach places than it would be to drive a high MPG car and stay at motels and eat at restaurants. And, I can still have morning coffee before I get dressed.
>
> Matt

[Chris Orr]

They probably just can't calculate fast enough. If one motorhome does
all the same as the other, yet costs the same except for gas costing 1/2
or a 1/3? Which one has lower runnign costs? It's not a trick question... :)

On 2/24/2014 10:19 AM, Mickey Space Ship Shuttle wrote:
> All 12000 gmc owners are laughing when you say this, they are great for gas for the size and power.
>
> I demur. You would be a lucky persons just to have one and be on this great list to help you find the truth.
>
> Mickey anaheim ca. made in the space age, 1977 gmc palm beach motor home.
>
>
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:02 AM, Chris Orr wrote:
>

>> Thanks for your advice. I don't own one yet, and probably never will
>> because of the poor mileage. Still what a cool vehicle. I'll be looking
>> at something with a modern mileage economy instead.
>>

>> On 2/24/2014 1:43 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
>>> and that's the truuuttttthhhh.
>>>
>>> we have spent 20 years, doing this stuff, and been down these roads, over,
>>> and over...
>>>
>>> so do it, if you like it, but for the right reasons :>)
>>> erf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:18 PM, gene barrow <barro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it doesn't matter which diesel
>>>> engine you install or what your driving style is it will take forever to
>>>> offset the acquisition and installation cost for the diesel with fuel cost
>>>> savings.
>>>> So if your idea is save money by increasing mpg- you can't get there from
>>>> here. But, if you like to change things just because you can, then then
>>>> enjoy yourself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gene Barrow
>>>> Lake Almanor, Ca.
>>>> 1976 Palm Beach

[Chris Orr]

Agreed, but when compared to 20 or 30mpg while all other costs and
services remain the same- no comparison!

[Robert Mueller]

Chris,

For the record you don't have to justify your decision to "us."

I for one wish you the best in your hunt for a Vixen.

Everybody else,

Stop trying to convince Chris that the GMC is a better vehicle than the Vixen you're WASTING YOUR TIME; just let him "do his thing."

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----

From: gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist...@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris Orr
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:35 AM
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from aGMCMotorhome?

They probably just can't calculate fast enough. If one motorhome does
all the same as the other, yet costs the same except for gas costing 1/2
or a 1/3? Which one has lower runnign costs? It's not a trick question... :)

[Chris Orr]

Thanks Sigmund,

I'm all for hybrid and electric vehicles. I've never been comfortable
with the 20% efficiency of a combustion engine myself- they're a symbol
of man's ego in forfeiting earth's environment and his decendants'
future, to move around at any cost.

Nikola Tesla invented the most innovative electrical devices such as AC
current, the brushless motor, electrical transmission over the air,
which were well ahead of their time, but obtuse thinking sided with
combustion technology over electrical. If not for this thinking,
electrical technology and computer technology would have developed well
before the 80s and been in every vehicle many decades earlier. Perhaps
we wouldn't have been stupid enough to have Chernobyl and now Fukushima
which threatens the western North American coast where I live, due to
ocean gyrations and wind patterns distributing radioactive materials
everywhere with 50,000+ yr half lives!

The GMC is a great vehicle, but it has a gas-guzzler carburated engine.
Lets hope that one day soon, we will be able to buy reliable kits to
convert all these dinosaur combustion vehicles to some hybrid power
systems everywhere, so we can clear the air and leave pristineness for
the children and grandchildren, rather than face the blame for our
stupidity!

Chris.

[Johnny Bridges]

Gasoline which has been shat upon with ethyl alcohol by lobbyists and pols.

 
--johnny
 


________________________________
From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org

Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 7:23 PM

[Chris Orr]

Point well taken, and you are right, but with an RV at 25-30 mpg, I can
do Yellowstone plus Yosemite on the same dime and with the same
benefits. You can't ignore that!

[John R. Lebetski]

Hybrid tech might improve economy in stop and go city traffic. Not in a continuous road load condition. For comparison a larger Hybrid available is the Tahoe. It gets about 20 highway they say. The non Hybrid version, well it gets about 20 highway they say. Most MH driving is not city commute but highway.
--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
Source America First

[Johnny Bridges]

Well, I wish ya all the bestt witht he Vixen if you find a suitable one. I don't believe you could run fast enough to catch me if I htought you were going to give me a Vovlvo diesel - at least the automotive one.  And I say that after many many miles in a Delta 88 with a 350 GM diesel.  Which was a fine comfortable car for its day, cruise all day long at 70 per and 22mph.  I'd still have it if some fool hadn't t-boned my sisterinlaw in the thing. 
 
Nothing wrong with the Volvo excepting they didn't ship a great number to this country, and Volvo parts are notorious for their cost. 
 
I wonderabout the aerodynamics.... any idea what the CD of the Vixen is?  The GMC is reported at .31 in some literatuyre, which ain't bad.  Although .31 times all that frontal area is still significant.
 
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
braselton ga

 


________________________________
From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org

Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 7:25 PM

[Chris Orr]

I don't want to stay home. I just don't want to tow a Corvette to the
races every weekend. I'd simply be bored to tears!

Instead I have plans to visit many parks and reserves in Canada and the
US and doing 3 times as many as a GMC can on the same dime, with all the
same benefits, is not to be overlooked!

I'm more Ansel Adams, than Mario Andretti! ;)

Chris

On 2/24/2014 2:35 PM, Keith V wrote:
>
> I can tow my 10 mpg Corvette to a show / race and frequently stay cheap or free.
> And the GMC will probably get 8 towing it.
>
> Did I mention I get to stay at the track?
>
> that said.. it's not a cheap hobby.
> If you want to save money, stay home.

[Johnny Bridges]

Let's modify that to read "...everything I need..." and I'm with you.  Disfortunately, for me, it just ain't so.  If it was just me n her going to the beach or up in the mountains, I'm on it like white on rice.  Add one or two coated dogs, the need for a bathtub, storage space for tack, and it falls woefully short.

 
--johnny


________________________________
From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org

Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 7:32 PM

Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?

[Chris Orr]

Oh don't know more than the rest of you! :) Odd assumption to make! I
just know what I like and gas mileage is way up there, plus very
innovative and excellent design. The Vixen does all you describe below,
only way better!

Chris.

[John R. Lebetski]

Now a simple e-assist type system to recover braking energy and help with launch would make sense

--
John Lebetski
Chicago, IL
77 Eleganza II
Source America First

[Chris Orr]

I believe the Vixen sleeps 4 comfortably, I might be mistaken- 1 double
bed, two twins- one that folds down from a wall. The pop top does not
mean exposure to the outside, it has glass panels that unfold and you
can keep the a/c or heat on and stand a 6'2" man upright.

Chris.

[Chris Orr]

That is a strange thing to say about a hybrid. Who cares about a battery
pack if the Prius gets 52 real mpg on the highway which is even better
than the Cdn diesel Smart? The Prius is huge compared to the Smart- food
for thought!

The Prius is the most economical car in NA and possibly globally!

[Bill Dolinsky]

I get 23mpg on occasion with my 99 suburban that has 320000 km, 18 the norm. My buddy has a $52000 hybrid hylander and is getting 26 mpg. We need to clean up the diesel so we can bring European technology to North America. I rented a c class Mercedes last time I was in France and I didn't know it was a diesel when we first got in it. No diesel noise on start up, no stink , went like a bat out of heck and didn't want me to put fuel in the tank. Thought diesels in cars were stupid before that experience.
--
Bill Dolinsky
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
1977 Kingsley TZE167V102169

[Kingsley Coach]

Chris
As a fellow Canadian, I would ask you to log off and go find a Vixen. You
have an answer for everything and clearly too smart for us!
Mike in NS

[Chris Orr]

Thanks Rob,

That being said, if someone will sell me a GMC with not much work to do
in great condition for $2000- $5000 (unlikely) I would still buy it!
It's nice enough and the mileage won't quite matter at that price! :)

Chris.

[Chris Orr]

:) Heheheh :) funny!

[Robert Mueller]

Chris,

As a friend of mine used to say; "if wishes were fishes we might have some fried." ;-)

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Orr

Thanks Rob,

That being said, if someone will sell me a GMC with not much work to do
in great condition for $2000- $5000 (unlikely) I would still buy it!
It's nice enough and the mileage won't quite matter at that price! :)

Chris.

[Chris Orr]

.29 I read somewhere, but can't confirm

[Chris Orr]

True NA is behind in a lot tech...

On 2/24/2014 5:30 PM, Bill Dolinsky wrote:
>
> I get 23mpg on occasion with my 99 suburban that has 320000 km, 18 the norm. My buddy has a $52000 hybrid hylander and is getting 26 mpg. We need to clean up the diesel so we can bring European technology to North America. I rented a c class Mercedes last time I was in France and I didn't know it was a diesel when we first got in it. No diesel noise on start up, no stink , went like a bat out of heck and didn't want me to put fuel in the tank. Thought diesels in cars were stupid before that experience.

[rally...@juno.com]

Sounds good to me. Diesel electruc or gas electric. Four or six wheel
drive... Four is probably enough. Eliminate the middle man.

ronC
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:28:01 -0600 A. <mar...@netzero.com> writes:
>
>
> Ronald Pottol wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 17:19

> > As for hybrids, they are great for stop and go, but cruising down
> the freeway, all you are doing is dragging a huge battery pack
> along.
> >
> > I have daydreamed about some sort of low speed, low power electric
> drive for the rear wheels, just to get unstuck.

> Go to a battery-less hybrid. Like a freight train locomotive.
> Engine to big-@$$ generator to motors at the wheels. Eliminates all
> the drive train stuff that wastes gas, like transmission, final
> drive, CV joints. You get the idea.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Sale
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> UA (Upper Alabama)
> CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored
> to service.

> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

Ron & Linda Clark
1978 GMC Eleganza II
North Plains, ORYGUN

[Chris Orr]

Kingsley Coach,

Why? Do you feel threatened by me because I've done my research? Are you
getting an education? As a fellow Cdn, may I suggest that you read a
little bit more because education does not harm anyone! Next time you
are double-parked in Quebec City, may I suggest you turn the tv off,
pick up a book or research something on the internet? You'll be better
off for it! :)

PLEASE! NO LONGER READ NOR REPLY TO ANYTHING WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER
ABOVE IF IT OFFENDS YOU!

And don't presume you have been invited to tell me what to do just
because you're from the same country! I logged on here to get
information about the GMC motorhome and I will stay as long as people
have good ideas, anecdotes and some of the amazing blogs and photos that
have been forwarded to me.

THANKS EVERYONE for all that input and the great links to all the
upgrades that GMC owners have done. I've been inspired by them!

Chris.

[J A Holland]

~> FUEL CONSUMPSION ? <~

The Best We Got In The '73 CanyonLands 26' Was 8 MPG.
I had a '74 Ford LTD Company Car With A 351 That Would
Get 10 mpg up or down, loaded or empty,30 mph or 90 mph,
pulling a loaded trailer or coasting downhill.

The Best We Got In The '78 Eleganza 26' II was 12 MPH
Using 100% Gasoline And Without A Towd.
We Only Got 7 MPG On Our December 2012 3 Day Return Trip
From Michigan With The Toad In Heavy Traffic.
We Stayed In The Coach 2 Nights Cooked And Used The Ole
6K Barbarian Extensively Both Day And Night On The Road.

I Am A 50/60 MPH Driver And Looking Forward To Get Much
Better Gas Mileage After I Change The Final Drive Over To
THE 4.10.
I Believe The 403 /4.10 Combination Will Make The Pulling
Power And Fuel Mileage A Win Win For My Driving Style.

~ Joe ~
--
/_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73 TZE063V101887 ""
O----------OO--]* ~ '78 TZE168V100234 ""
" Joe & Lavelle " ""
'sweet home alebamy'

[Chris Orr]

I saw one in that price range in BC somewhere, it looked clean and good
in photos, but I bet there's much work! Seems to have gone from the
listings.

[Bill Dolinsky]

When I was at WardAir we had a couple Electrihaul push tractors, 1 90000lb and a120000 lb. big straight 6 cummins and flat 12 Detroit. I don't think it helped hull consumption over the geared transmission units of similar size. Smooth acceleration and 100% torque from start though.

--
Bill Dolinsky
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
1977 Kingsley TZE167V102169

[GEORGE BUTTS]

Did an economy test run about year ago:
73' 26 ft. Lamey 455/headers/single Spintech muffler/4"exhaust/ 3:42 final drive. Fresh tuneup, new Pertronix HEI distributor, Edelbrock full-synthetic zinc-enhanced 10/40 oil, Lucas ethanol fuel conditioner.

About 200 mile flat route, Highway 99, Fresno CA to Bakersfield CA. Drove like I had a egg on the accelerator - slow slow slow starts, foot off the gas way in advance for traffic ahead otherwise Steady 55-60 MPH. Got 14.? MPG (don't remember the exact number). But no way I could consistently drive like that and arrive sane! I usually get around 10 MPG generally driving conservative.


--
George Butts
Apple Valley Calif.
73 "Custom 26 Q"

[gmccoop]

There's more to life than MPG, ill keep my 5 GMCs.  Well Janie lets me have 3 tags, so that's 3...

Jim Bounds

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Dolinsky <Wildbi...@yahoo.com>
Date: 02/24/2014 9:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?

When I was at WardAir we had a couple Electrihaul  push tractors, 1 90000lb and a120000 lb. big straight 6 cummins and flat 12 Detroit. I don't think it helped hull consumption over the geared transmission units of similar size. Smooth acceleration and 100% torque from start though.
--
Bill Dolinsky
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
1977 Kingsley TZE167V102169

[Chris Orr]

Thanks George,

I would think not! That is tough driving, I've driven that stretch
before, boring as hell, but it is the best I've heard from the stock
engine without complicated upgrades.

Cheers,

Chris.

On 2/24/2014 6:24 PM, GEORGE BUTTS wrote:
>
> Did an economy test run about year ago:
> 73' 26 ft. Lamey 455/headers/single Spintech muffler/4"exhaust/ 3:42 final drive. Fresh tuneup, new Pertronix HEI distributor, Edelbrock full-synthetic zinc-enhanced 10/40 oil, Lucas ethanol fuel conditioner.
>
> About 200 mile flat route, Highway 99, Fresno CA to Bakersfield CA. Drove like I had a egg on the accelerator - slow slow slow starts, foot off the gas way in advance for traffic ahead otherwise Steady 55-60 MPH. Got 14.? MPG (don't remember the exact number). But no way I could consistently drive like that and arrive sane! I usually get around 10 MPG generally driving conservative.
>
>

[Chris Orr]

Jim,

You have 5 GMCs? How many motorhomes?

Chris.

On 2/24/2014 7:02 PM, gmccoop wrote:
> There's more to life than MPG, ill keep my 5 GMCs. Well Janie lets me have 3 tags, so that's 3...
>
> Jim Bounds
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Bill Dolinsky <Wildbi...@yahoo.com>
> Date: 02/24/2014 9:16 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a
> GMCMotorhome?
>
>
>
> When I was at WardAir we had a couple Electrihaul push tractors, 1 90000lb and a120000 lb. big straight 6 cummins and flat 12 Detroit. I don't think it helped hull consumption over the geared transmission units of similar size. Smooth acceleration and 100% torque from start though.

[Larry Davick]

Lots of gas needed to get up to speed but not much to maintain that speed. Sounds like an excellent model for a hybrid drivetrain. Big electric motor sucking down batteries to get the coach up to speed and a gas engine to maintain the speed and recharge the batteries.

Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA

[GEORGE BUTTS]

OH, forgot to list: Stock Carb, one low profile roof AC, no roof vents, pod or rails, no awning. So a little less wind resistance on top. 80 lbs tire pressure.
(if any of this trivia makes a diff)

[gmccoop]

They are motorhomes though I mad e 1 into a flat bed truck, the otheri don't have a tag for is a striped 23 with a 350 sporting 4:10 .  gears.  My wife is smart, if she didn't limit me I would have a fleet titled and on the road!  That doesn't count the rear bath 23 that is hers...

Jim Bounds

-------- Original message --------
From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
Date: 02/24/2014 10:29 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a GMCMotorhome?

Jim,

You have 5 GMCs? How many motorhomes?

Chris.
On 2/24/2014 7:02 PM, gmccoop wrote:
> There's more to life than MPG, ill keep my 5 GMCs.  Well Janie lets me have 3 tags, so that's 3...
>
> Jim Bounds
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Bill Dolinsky <Wildbi...@yahoo.com>
> Date: 02/24/2014  9:16 PM  (GMT-05:00)
> To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a
>   GMCMotorhome?
>  
>
>
> When I was at WardAir we had a couple Electrihaul  push tractors, 1 90000lb and a120000 lb. big straight 6 cummins and flat 12 Detroit. I don't think it helped hull consumption over the geared transmission units of similar size. Smooth acceleration and 100% torque from start though.

_______________________________________________

[Jp Benson]

Whatever happened to the hydrogen generator experiment that was on
GMCnet a couple years back?

JP

On 2/25/2014 6:40 AM, gmccoop wrote:
> They are motorhomes though I mad e 1 into a flat bed truck, the otheri don't have a tag for is a striped 23 with a 350 sporting 4:10 . gears. My wife is smart, if she didn't limit me I would have a fleet titled and on the road! That doesn't count the rear bath 23 that is hers...
>
> Jim Bounds
>
>

[Johnny Bridges]

Totally unrelated to the discussion at hand, but out of sheer curiosity - Are you any kin to a gent named J. Herbert Orr of OrrTronics notoriety?

--johnny


________________________________
From: Chris Orr <c00...@gmail.com>
 

.29 I read somewhere, but can't confirm

On 2/24/2014 5:05 PM, Johnny Bridges wrote:
> Well, I wish ya all the bestt witht he Vixen if you find a suitable one. I don't believe you could run fast enough to catch me if I htought you were going to give me a Vovlvo diesel - at least the automotive one.  And I say that after many many miles in a Delta 88 with a 350 GM diesel.  Which was a fine comfortable car for its day, cruise all day long at 70 per and 22mph.  I'd still have it if some fool hadn't t-boned my sisterinlaw in the thing.
> 
> Nothing wrong with the Volvo excepting they didn't ship a great number to this country, and Volvo parts are notorious for their cost.
> 
> I wonderabout the aerodynamics.... any idea what the CD of the Vixen is?  The GMC is reported at .31 in some literatuyre, which ain't bad.  Although .31 times all that frontal area is still significant.
> 
> --johnny

[Robert Mueller]

JP,

Evidently you missed all the excitement, hoorays; and ballyhoo? So did I!

Actually the experiment joined the ranks of the guy that was able to make a gasoline engine run on water, the guy that invented a
carburetor that produced 100 mph, the car that runs on compressed air, and so on.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----

From: Jp Benson

Whatever happened to the hydrogen generator experiment that was on GMCnet a couple years back?

JP

[Robert Mueller]

Jim,

Chris is a newbie looking for a motorhome; I suspect he may not know that you are:

http://www.gmccoop.com

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----

From: gmccoop

They are motorhomes though I mad e 1 into a flat bed truck, the otheri don't have a tag for is a striped 23 with a 350 sporting 4:10

gears.  My wife is smart, if she didn't limit me I would have a fleet titled and on the road!  That doesn't count the rear bath 23
that is hers...

Jim Bounds

[Jim Bounds]

Paul,
 
It's just so hard to get a viable comparison.  I took the system I bought out of the coach it was in, could not get a good test.  That with the fact that you have to twwek the system for best results even getting a good baseline is difficult.  Basically it seems like it's such a hassle that it reallt does not fit into our lifestyle and no matter how good it is if the systems frustrates you why would you subject yourself to such a high school experiment.
 
Anyway, that's what it feels like from this side.
 
Jim Bounds
-------------------

[Jp Benson]

Rob,

So it must have been bought out by big oil companies who will stop at
nothing to protect their monopoly.

Orlando FL has switched many of their garbage trucks to hydraulic
hybrids which recharge the accumulators during braking. Not so useful
for RV's but ideal for garbage trucks. They're supposed to get
financial payback on the brake jobs alone but also save gas. They are a
bit noisier but don't leave diesel exhaust fumes that hang in the air
long after the truck is gone.

JP

[Robert Mueller]

JP,

You got it!

Thanks for the info on the garbage trucks, I've never heard of a hydraulic hybrid, I'll do some Googling and see what I can learn.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Jp Benson

Rob,

So it must have been bought out by big oil companies who will stop at
nothing to protect their monopoly.

Orlando FL has switched many of their garbage trucks to hydraulic
hybrids which recharge the accumulators during braking. Not so useful
for RV's but ideal for garbage trucks. They're supposed to get
financial payback on the brake jobs alone but also save gas. They are a
bit noisier but don't leave diesel exhaust fumes that hang in the air
long after the truck is gone.

JP

[lenze middelberg]

just for comparison: my 40" volvo busconversion inline 6 9liter diesel did 3,5 km/l witch is 8,2 Ml/gl
That with a hudge payload and a max speed of 60 Ml/hr
--
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" ( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Volvo v70
Denmark

[Michael]

We have done Electric Hybrids in the past, and it is beginning to appear that Hydraulic Hybrids are where the trash industry is moving.

Parker has a system, but I am sure it is pretty pricey.
--
1973 GMC 26' Glacier - Unknown Mileage - Has a new switch pitch transmission with Powerdrive :)

[Bruce Hart]

The vixen would be a great vehicle to tour the country in. I f you decided
to boondock for more than two-three days the water capacity is a bit low
at 25 gallons especially with kids. Holding tanks are sufficient for the
water capacity.

I had a Class C motor home with a 25 gallon water tank and my wife and I
had to very conservative with the water for three days.

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class

[James Hupy]

Chris, if you are so Smitten with a Vixen, why are you hanging out on the
GMC website? Is there a similar site that offers what the GMCnet does that
is relevant to the Vixen? I have never researched anything about the Vixen,
but I worked on both Volvo and BMW automotive as well as Volvo Penta Marine
stuff and, "Holy MAMA" hang on tight to your wallet when they break stuff.
Parts must be plated with platinum. Don't know anything about a black list
for Vixen owners either, or a vendor network. If you need a mechanical fuel
pump in Timbuktu, are you going to be able to make a phone call to Jim K
and have him UPS blue label it to you overnight? Just asking?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Feb 24, 2014 5:13 PM, "Chris Orr" <c00...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh don't know more than the rest of you! :) Odd assumption to make! I
> just know what I like and gas mileage is way up there, plus very
> innovative and excellent design. The Vixen does all you describe below,
> only way better!
>
> Chris.

[Matt Colie]

The early Volts were only released in the east and west megapoli. Their thoughts being that demand would be highest there and the economy demonstration would also be best as drivers there spend less time driving and more time waiting. A fellow I know wanted one so badly that he bought one through an east coast dealer and drove it back to Michigan. He got 36MPG on the highway dur his return. This was no surprise to me as the only two Prius I know don't do any better than Mary's 2001 Civic and not as well as my 1979 Rabbit diesel did when I had it.

What can a GMC do?
I keep careful records and twice we have hit around 12. Several times in the 10's. But this requires, the correct terrain, the right temperatures, low speed roads and non-alcohol laced fuel.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic, once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
'73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Hal StClair]

Always thought they were 'cool' but at 6'2" they would be a 'pain in the neck' literally. I know with the top up it would be better but so many times a run to the head or a stop for lunch on the road is the norm and the ducking wouldn't appeal to me. The great mileage certainly appeals to me (I'm in the early process of a diesel swap) but the compromises, ie width, height, capacities would steer me toward something else (GMC, hint,hint).
Having something unique is fun but from a practical standpoint one of the Sprinter vans might work better. A friend just purchased a 2005 Air Stream van for $34,000 and has been averaging 26+ mpg solo, 20+ towing. Parts and service are easy and most of the depreciation has already occurred.
Good luck,Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout

[Matt Colie]

Jp Benson wrote on Tue, 25 February 2014 08:36

> Rob,
>
> So it must have been bought out by big oil companies who will stop at nothing to protect their monopoly.
>
> Orlando FL has switched many of their garbage trucks to hydraulic hybrids which recharge the accumulators during braking. Not so useful for RV's but ideal for garbage trucks. They're supposed to get financial payback on the brake jobs alone but also save gas. They are a bit noisier but don't leave diesel exhaust fumes that hang in the air long after the truck is gone.
>
> JP

JP,

Those stories of 100MPG carburetors have been all over for years. At the contract test lab I used to run, we had three of them come in. None of them actually worked. Two of them game some results in passcar service at the expense of performance to a greater or lessor extent. One is memorable as the performance suffered so that after one road test, I forbade it be driven on public streets without escort and all the future road evaluations were done on close roads or tracks.

If the people that tried to develop these things understood thermodynamics, they could waste a lot less time.

You do know that there are vehicles sold in other parts of the world that do far better fuel rate than anything sold in the US and Canada - Right? Do you also know that one of those had the distinction of being the only one (1) {uno} star crash test that IIHS ever did.

About Hydraulic Hybrids....
Locally two engineering firms were developing them in conjunction with hydraulic manufactures and parcel delivery customers. They do work and are cost effective in the final analysis. They do cost some payload, but that really is not an issue for this service.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic, once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
'73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Gerald Work]

Hi Matt,

Our experience with Sharon's 2010 Prius is very different. She has perhaps the worst drive pattern possible, lots of short runs the two miles (one way) to our four stop light town, an occasional trip 30 miles to Grants Pass, a once in a while 75 mile jaunt to Medford and a couple of times a year a nearly 300 mile trip to Portland. She makes no effort to drive for economy, she just gets in and goes. Since new her overall mileage is just under 50mpg and the car has never been back to the dealer for anything but one recall notice. The oil is changed every 10,000 miles as called for in the manual. Batteries show no different behavior now than when new. Even if one left off everything about the hybrid technology and great mileage, it would still be a best of breed car. Our experience anyway.

As to GMCs, both the Clasco and the Royale get the same 8-10 most owners report. So far it looks like the now lower gearing (3.21 final drive and 3.5 Powerchain in the transmission = 3.67 over all) may increase the average a bit in both coaches in the terrain in which we live and the speeds at which we drive. The Archoil fuel conditioner I am experimenting with on this trip may help a little but I will not know until we get back and calculate the total fuel used and actual miles driven correcting for any odo error.

Another poster questioned whether the use of 87 octane E10 fuel would require any different distributor timing. Our experience is that it does not. We run 87 octane E10 in both coaches and both run Patterson HEI distributors set at 10 degrees initial just as Dick Patterson suggests.

Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building in historic Kerby, OR
Visitors always welcome!
glw...@mac.com
http://jerrywork.com
==============
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:57:15 -0600
From: Matt Colie <matt7...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What is the best fuel economy obtainable from a
GMCMotorhome?

To: gmc...@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID: <3aea0.5...@gmc.mybirdfeeder.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15"

The early Volts were only released in the east and west megapoli. Their thoughts being that demand would be highest there and the economy demonstration would also be best as drivers there spend less time driving and more time waiting. A fellow I know wanted one so badly that he bought one through an east coast dealer and drove it back to Michigan. He got 36MPG on the highway dur his return. This was no surprise to me as the only two Prius I know don't do any better than Mary's 2001 Civic and not as well as my 1979 Rabbit diesel did when I had it.

What can a GMC do?
I keep careful records and twice we have hit around 12. Several times in the 10's. But this requires, the correct terrain, the right temperatures, low speed roads and non-alcohol laced fuel.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic, once snow covered glacier Chaumi?re is in for the winter.

[A.]

George B. wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 22:42

> OH, forgot to list: Stock Carb, one low profile roof AC, no roof vents, pod or rails, no awning. So a little less wind resistance on top. 80 lbs tire pressure.
> (if any of this trivia makes a diff)

80 PSI is too much. Decreases the "patch" in contact with the pavement increasing stopping distance in hard braking. Increases the possibility of hydroplaning. Causes the center of the tread to wear excessively.

Weigh the front and back separately and set the pressure of the tires according to the chart here:

http://gmcmotorhome.info/tires.html#PSI

If any tire needs more than 65PSI, that area is overloaded. GM changed from Load Range D to Load Range E because they raised the GVWR on later models and that put the weights CLOSE TO the top limit of LRD tires, but never exceeded it.

Check the GVWR chart in your Operating Manual. No tire on a GMC motorhome should ever need more than 65 PSI.
--
'73 23' Sequoia For Sale
'73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
UA (Upper Alabama)
CanyonLands most likely for a parts coach. Sequoia being restored to service.

[Keith V]

yes Hydraulic Hybrids are awesome for garbage trucks that start and stop every 100 feet and already have a Hydraulic system on board, and have tons of free space underneath for all the equimpent.

I can't imaging a better use for one.

a motorhome? No way...

--
Keith
69 Vette
29 Dodge
75 Royale GMC
Mounds View. MN

[Larry Davick]

It won't be too many years before the Dodge front drive diesel vans end up in the wrecking yards donating their drivetrains to us. I suspect they might double our mileage to 16+ MPG.

Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA

[mike foster]

Every .2 mpg counts and adds up. The reason I never considered being a professional racer of any kind was watching Ronnie Sox and Jake King spend insane hours prepping A-S/S 440's and Pro-Stock Hemis. They would spend 20 hours to shave .03sec. off the E/T. Do that with 20 different things and you have .6 sec. lower E/T.

Quite a few manufacturers started using Synthetic oil just because it achieved about .25 mpg better on the EPA test cycle.

George B. wrote on Mon, 24 February 2014 22:42

> OH, forgot to list: Stock Carb, one low profile roof AC, no roof vents, pod or rails, no awning. So a little less wind resistance on top. 80 lbs tire pressure.
> (if any of this trivia makes a diff)

[dwayne jacobson]

our GMC site is for those interested in and those who have a Classic GMC
and running off on a tangent regarding another brand is a waste of time.
Let's stick to what we do best and know best for that is what makes owning
and travelling in a GMC wonderful. If others think owning something else
is a much better solution for their needs - bye bye!!!!
Really enjoying the friendship of our GMC'rs and looking forward to the
ROUTE 66 Rolling Rally this May-June. Check it out on the Cascaders web
site
www.gmc-cascaders.com

Best regards
Dwayne Jacobson
77 Kingsley
Cascaders member and loving the trip.

--
Dwayne Jacobson
White Rock BC
Cell: 604-644-8090