[GMCnet] Thermasan

[Rich Kinas via Gmclist]

Matt and anybody that has any knowledge....

I am replacing my exhaust manifold gaskets, exhaust down pipes ,pipe flange gaskets, mufflers, etc all because of that broken lower dip-stick tube.
Actually it just started the process that I would have eventually gotten around to eventually. So while I am installing the new exhaust down pipes, I
figured I would weld bungs into place for my future ThermaSan installation. I am actually creating a modified ThermaSan install since the only parts I
actually have on hand are the pump and motor. For my injector I am going to try to use a "M18x1.5 O2 Sensor CEL Eliminator" that threads into a
standard M18x1.5 O2 bung that I am going to weld onto the down pipe about 12 inches from the manifold connector flange. And about 6 inches from the
manifold connector flange I am planning on mounting a 1/8" NPT steel bung that I will install a "2M EGT K type thermocouple exhaust probe High Temp
Sensor" to monitor my exhaust temperature. So my question so far is does this plan sound reasonable? Is if sufficient to mount the ThermaSan injector
just 6 inches down stream of the thermocouple, or should I mount it further down closer to the mufflers? I figure that what ever I end up using for my
injector the O2 sensor bung should be able to accommodate it.

Rich
--
Rich Kinas
1976 Elaganza II
Orlando, FL

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[Steve Southworth via Gmclist]

tmsnyder wrote on Fri, 18 October 2019 18:39
> Are you putting in an all stainless exhaust? :lol:

The SS exaust has been in for 5 years
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

[Rich Kinas via Gmclist]

Although it would look awesome and make me smile everytime I crawled under
the coach, the original steel seems to have lasted 43 years so I'm planning
on just going back with mild steel. Many other areas to spend these dollars
on right now! Maybe in 10 years or so when I am looking for something to
do to spruce it up....

Rich

[John Wright via Gmclist]

To All:

There are a number of files (3) on bdub.net website:

http://bdub.net/manuals/Thermasan-flyer.pdf

http://www.bdub.net/manuals/Thermasan-OwnersManual.pdf

http://www.gmcmi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Thermasan2-500-InstallOwners-Manual.pdf

If you have not seen these or read them they might be helpful for your quest to burn POO!

From most GMCers that I had talked to over the last 20+ years it never really worked well, was a very high maintenance system and most were removed at the first time they failed due to component failure, but if that is your quest then go for it. If your coach sets for any period of time during the camping of travel season then you must make sure that the system is clean from one end to the other or you will have clogging issues and that goes for cleaning before storage including adding antifreeze if you are in a cold climate. Also comments about using CS exhaust tubing and how it has not failed should be taken with caution as the CS tubing will corrode quickly in a high heat acidic atmosphere. Most SS exhaust system that sold today are made out of 304SS as it is much more less expensive that the highly corrosive resistant 316SS. The 304 can also suffer some corrosion problems depending on the chemical make up of the POO being burned.

I would better spend my time exploring the world around me than doing constant monitoring and maintaince each travel season, but you choose your way and enjoy your GMC your way!

Regards,

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 29.5’ Stretch
75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

[Rich Kinas via Gmclist]

Great Feedback for those not familiar with the ThermaSan. I have read
everything I could find on the ThermaSan including all the documents on the
bdub site. As an engineer the challenge to reproduce and enhance this
system is irresistible! So if I was not already working on the coach, and
these parts I would probably not be tackling it now, however since I am
here and I can modify the parts as necessary without hardly
additional labor and then just block off these parts for now, I plan on
doing that. Anyway the O2 bung would be necessary for a FI system in the
future, and the exhaust tempreature monitoring is a nice to have with out
without the ThermaSan. I'll keep everyone up to speed on this adventure as
it develops, just in case there is anybody else as crazy as I am in the
future.

Rich

[Richard H Staples via Gmclist]

Rich Kinas wrote: "I'll keep everyone up to speed on this adventure as

it develops, just in case there is anybody else as crazy as I am in the
future."

Please do that! I'm another crazy one who's been gathering old Thermasan parts for a while now. Always thought it was a great concept and wanted
one. FWIW, remember that our exhaust system already deals with lots of water (1 gallon of gas ~= 1 gallon of water exhausted.), as the Thermasan
literature makes clear. Since our engines work hot and hard most of the time, our exhaust systems tend to last a long time, although a rear-mounted
muffler may have a shorter life since it takes longer to warm up. (Condensation inside the muffler is the usual cause of failure.)

Some people I've talked to said the plastic tubing in the peristaltic pump would require replacement every year or so, but I would think modern
materials might help with that. If I do it, I'm thinking a fresh-water flush connection to clear the system before storage might help too.

Anyhow, keep us posted. Poop-shooters unite! You have nothing to lose but your...... Oh, whatever. ;)

Rick Staples

--
Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO

"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien

[Rich Kinas via Gmclist]

Rick thanks for the encouragement! Have you ever seen an original install
and the location of the injector? We only have about 2 feet of exhaust to
play with between the manifolds and mufflers so I don't think it would make
much of a difference, where it is mounted exactly, I am just going to make
it convenient for access, and I'll see where that ends up. As far as the
tubing, I'm not sure how close the tubing can get to the exhaust and not
have a short life. Most of even the high temperature tube I have located is
only good for 500. My thought was to use steel tube for the last 12 inches
with compression fittings attached to my O2 eliminator. Well see.... I like
the idea of a flush out mechanism, I'm going to have to think about that...

Rich

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

From what remember, the injector included a stainless screen that was about 50 mess that wrapped around the injector probe. There was also a finer
screen in the tank pick up. This seemed to be effective at atomizing the effluent. It seemed that being in the exhaust heat was important, but
considering the possibility of of exhaust system corrosion was never an issue as the injected liquid was very small and the exhaust system was hot.
Injection also only occurred when the engine had road load on it.

The original Thermasan required that a "Sanitizer" (A mini muffler) be spliced into the exhaust system. This had both the injector and a thermocouple
in it. That was dropped in favor of the strap-in injector and other controls.

The thermocouple based control also fell out of favor when tests showed that it allowed the pump to run when there was not adequate load on the main
engine. It was dropped in favor of a vacuum switch and a road speed switch. That was more reliable as a control, easier to install and less
expensive. The vacuum switches are still available, but I have not seen a road speed switch in years. Not even the several that I had in a junk box
three moves ago. I expect one could be ginned up with modern electronics that would not require all the speedo cable adapters that one had to have.


Very memorable was the remark from the member of a motorhome convoy that showed up at the facility one day. He remarked that when one of the coaches
ahead had his Thermosan running those behind got treated to an aroma that could best be described as cooking a diaper.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Adolph Santorine via Gmclist]

“He remarked that when one of the coaches
ahead had his Thermosan running those behind got treated to an aroma that could best be described as cooking a diaper.”

All the bad jokes that ran through my warped sense of humor with that one.

That being said, I still want one.

Dolph Santorine

DE AD0LF

Wheeling, West Virginia

1977 ex-Palm Beach TZE167V100820
Howell EFI/EBL , Reaction Arms, Manny Transmission

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Matt Colie via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> He remarked that when one of the coaches
> ahead had his Thermosan running those behind got treated to an aroma that could best be described as cooking a diaper.

[Mike Hamm via Gmclist]

How about just a manual on off switch. Let the driver decide when to scent the road behind.

--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

mghamms wrote on Mon, 21 October 2019 13:55

> How about just a manual on off switch. Let the driver decide when to scent the road behind.

All versions always included a driver controlled OFF switch. The controls only prevented there being wet material in the exhaust. We often had
discussions about "Odor Limits" and when it got to "annoying but not objectionable" the flow rate was too small to bother with using it.

And yes Dolph,
All the bad jokes apply.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Steve Southworth via Gmclist]

On my '74 OEM thermasan OEM install the injector was located about 10" from the manifold.

As noted by MattC the thermocouple system can trigger when the exhaust flow is not high. Lately my thermocouple readings have been a bit goofy so I
have been controlling manually. It works but is a PITA.

Baked diaper - yep. This can be used to our advantage. Some idiot tailgating you. No problem. Just manually Thermasan them. Shortly they will, as
if by magic back off. <GRIN>. We have the word "Thermasan'd" just under the drivers toll window. Underneath it, just like bomb markers on an
aircraft, are placed auto stickers upside down, to indicate successful "kills".

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

[Rich Kinas via Gmclist]

Thats awesome!!!! Always have to make sure you have a little something in
the tank just for those special occasions. My plan is to monitor exhaust
temperature, vacuum, and speed. I'm building a small custom logic board to
take all the inputs and trigger a relay to close. All the inputs have
tune-able pots on the board to fine tune the system once it is in. Still
mocking up initial sensors, and logic. I'm hoping to be able to put
together something that, anyone else interested in giving it a shot, has a
way to start that may not be so electrically inclined. I'll publish the
schematic with parts, etc once I have something really workable. If anybody
has any thoughts on the flushing idea, I'd be glad to here them.

Rich

[Stephan ashe via Gmclist]

bought a thermasan system on the Ebay two years ago with plans to install on the 73. didn't get to it. now with the 77 royale there are two tanks...
maybe just hook to the gray water and use a macerator on the black tank? will miss the opportunity to diaper those behind but believe the gray will
fill up a lot sooner than the black tank.
--
Stephan Ashe
1973 26-6 painted desert?
1977 Royale sidebath
Tucson Az

[Steve Southworth via Gmclist]

Stephan Ashe wrote on Tue, 22 October 2019 15:23

> bought a thermasan system on the Ebay two years ago with plans to install on the 73. didn't get to it. now with the 77 royale there are two
> tanks... maybe just hook to the gray water and use a macerator on the black tank? will miss the opportunity to diaper those behind but believe the
> gray will fill up a lot sooner than the black tank.

The advantage of the Thermasan is, when traveling daily, the tank gets emptied and there is no need to look for a place to dump the black tank. If I
had a Royale I would set up a two way electric valve so either tank could be burned.

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

Please keep us advised as to your progress and also after a year of use.

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[Jim Kanomata via Gmclist]

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Stephan Ashe wrote on Tue, 22 October 2019 15:23
> bought a thermasan system on the Ebay two years ago with plans to install on the 73. didn't get to it. now with the 77 royale there are two
> tanks... maybe just hook to the gray water and use a macerator on the black tank? will miss the opportunity to diaper those behind but believe the
> gray will fill up a lot sooner than the black tank.

midlf wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 00:43

> The advantage of the Thermasan is, when traveling daily, the tank gets emptied and there is no need to look for a place to dump the black tank.
> If I had a Royale I would set up a two way electric valve so either tank could be burned.

\

The electric valve will probably foul and leak.
Or, as we had planned to do in a bus application. stack two (or more) pumps with some threaded rod. You can actually buy pump element hoses with
smaller ID to manipulate the pumped volume.

These pumps are not damaged by running dry, but the life of the hose element is not real long.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Todd Snyder via Gmclist]

Last time I saw a photo of a thermosan system, it struck me that they appeared to be using a Masterflex L/S peristaltic pump. And probably the 100rpm
pump head since I don't think you'd want to shoot your black water into the exhaust at the flow provided by the 600rpm version. I imagine slower is
better in that application. Here's what that pump appears to be imo:

https://www.masterflex.com/p/masterflex-l-s-standard-pump-heads-for-precision-tubing/4448

A little background on these pumps, they are common in labs, the 90V DC pump motor is speed controlled by varying the DC voltage to the motor. In an
RV I suspect they would have skipped the speed controller and just run it on 12V at the reduced speed.

From experience with these pumps, they take a special tubing available from Cole Parmer to work properly. Don't just try to use a cheap vinyl tubing
from HomeDepot, you'll destroy the gear box on the motor and it probably won't pump anyway. Check out the prices on the pump motor / gear box
replacement before skimping on the tubing ($1000 or so?). The size of the tubing you need is determined by the number on the removable pump head, get
the right tubing. If you want help determining the right tubing, let me know.

Also from experience, I would estimate that if the roller part of the pump head is in good condition, and you put in the right tubing, you will
probably never wear out the tubing during your lifetime of use in your motorhome unless you drive your coach 24/7 for about 2 years straight. Then you
might want to change the tubing. But under normal use if you get the silicone platinum tubing, I doubt you'll ever wear it out.

The downside is that, when the tubing does fail it fails by leaking whatever is being pumped out from the pump head. If it's in a place where it can
drain safely then no worries, run it until it leaks.

Also, this is a positive displacement pump. If the outlet becomes obstructed it will develop some pretty high pressure and could blow a connection or
the tubing apart.

Brushes are available for the motor, those can wear out.

Also, as a piece of lab equipment, the prices on everything related to these is also lab grade = high. One good source you may consider instead of
going to Cole Parmer is looking on ebay. They come up frequently if you know what to search for. Based on the photo I saw, you would want to search
for "Masterflex".

Hopefully this is helpful to someone interested in building or repairing their thermosan system.
--
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II

[Bill Wevers via Gmclist]

When I bought my coach 15 years ago, it had a Thermasan with the injector installed on the driver side Y-pipe about 1 foot from the muffler. One day I
was heading up a grade on HWY 80 in Utah, and the muffler seam ripped open making a loud racket.
When I got home and removed the muffler, I could see solid brick-like rocks inside the blown out muffler. You can imagine where they came from.
--
Bill Wevers GMC49ers, GMC Western States
1975 Glenbrook - Manny Powerdrive, OneTon
455 F Block, G heads
San Jose

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

bwevers wrote on Fri, 25 October 2019 12:38

> When I bought my coach 15 years ago, it had a Thermasan with the injector installed on the driver side Y-pipe about 1 foot from the muffler. One
> day I was heading up a grade on HWY 80 in Utah, and the muffler seam ripped open making a loud racket.
> When I got home and removed the muffler, I could see solid brick-like rocks inside the blown out muffler. You can imagine where they came from.

Bill,

We saw one of those in the lab here. It turned out that the screen on the injector had burned off so there was no longer any particle size control.
As nearly as I know, GMCs where the only one to have the problem because the injector was so close to the manifold. It still was an uncommon issue.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Rich Kinas via Gmclist]

The pump that I have is a Cole-Parmer Masterflex model 7017 (EW-07017-20).
I bought one on Ebay for $95. This uses L/S 17 tubing 1/4" I.D, 3/8" O.D.
The motor originally was (as far as I can tell, and what I have acquired) a
63-72 Chevy GMC pickup windshield wiper motor. Again I picked one up off
ebay (New Old Stock) for $63.

You have to use L/S 17 tubing within the pump, but not sure about using it
the whole length. I was thinking about using solid internally coated steel
brake line for most of the run. I was thinking this would get rid of the
heat issues relating to the tubing next to the exhaust system. I'm not sure
about the tubing being rigid so not providing any "give" for pressure
issues...

Any thoughts?

Rich

[Richard H Staples via Gmclist]

Todd,
Thank you for some valuable info. This thing is looking more and more doable.

Rick Staples
--
Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO

"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Rich Kinas wrote on Fri, 25 October 2019 15:35

> The pump that I have is a Cole-Parmer Masterflex model 7017 (EW-07017-20). I bought one on Ebay for $95. This uses L/S 17 tubing 1/4" I.D, 3/8"
> O.D. The motor originally was (as far as I can tell, and what I have acquired) a 63-72 Chevy GMC pickup windshield wiper motor. Again I picked one
> up off ebay (New Old Stock) for $63.
>
> You have to use L/S 17 tubing within the pump, but not sure about using it the whole length. I was thinking about using solid internally coated
> steel brake line for most of the run. I was thinking this would get rid of the heat issues relating to the tubing next to the exhaust system. I'm
> not sure about the tubing being rigid so not providing any "give" for pressure issues...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Rich

Rich, The original RV systems used that wiper motor strapped to run faster than it did in wiper service. There were only two special parts:
1- The bracket to hold the pump on the wiper motor
2- The drive adapter for the motor/pump (A piece of brass, drilled at one end and milled at the other.)

The heat at the injector was managed by: The most of a foot of stainless from the pipe, and then about two feet of high temperature silicon rubber
tubing that connected to the vinyl that went to the pump.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Rich Kinas via Gmclist]

Thanks Matt. I'm building the mounting bracket now for the motor and pump.
I'm using pictures of original units to get my bracket close to the
original. Do you remember how close (or where) the pump bracket was mounted
to the black water tank?

Rich

[Ernest Dankert via Gmclist]

We used these pumps at the plant to meter coating fluids. Tubing wear/life is/was measured in hours.
Silicon tubing best, tygon worst. Loosen pump head and pull a section through.
--
1977 Eleganza II
Ogden NY

[Don B via Gmclist]

I too am looking to restore my coach to have the original Thermasan system. I have the control unit (dangling under the steering wheel...) but decades
ago a complete stainless steel exhaust system was installed. My dad tells me the Thermasan system was probably removed at the same time. I'd have to
doubt the exhaust shop bothered to remove the pump and other equipment though.

Where would I find each Thermasan component on a GMC if they are still there? The repair manual doesn't really detail the Thermasan system at all.

I haven't had time to trace the wire harness. Any help would be appreciated! Hopefully I still have most of the components.

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

aglass0fmilk wrote on Wed, 06 November 2019 11:47

> I too am looking to restore my coach to have the original Thermasan system. I have the control unit (dangling under the steering wheel...) but
> decades ago a complete stainless steel exhaust system was installed. My dad tells me the Thermasan system was probably removed at the same time. I'd
> have to doubt the exhaust shop bothered to remove the pump and other equipment though.
>
> Where would I find each Thermasan component on a GMC if they are still there? The repair manual doesn't really detail the Thermasan system at
> all.
>
> I haven't had time to trace the wire harness. Any help would be appreciated! Hopefully I still have most of the components.

Don,

Welcome to the group, family, cult, asylum.....

Before you do much else, go to <Control Panel/Account Settings> and then click on preferences. Find the place to fill in a sigfile. Put in your real
name (we like to know who we helped when we meet), a short bit about the family coach - include major mods because it may matter and a geographic
reference because the half that read this as e-mail won't see the Buffalo. This will make it easier to get the good answers here.

The Therasan system had a number of parts. There should be a speed switch in the speedometer cable run and somewhere a little vacuum switch connected
to the intake manifold. These are part of the control system. There should also be a connection in the black tank and near that will be a potted
thing that has wires out both ends. That is the level sensor so the pump does not run when there is nothing to pump. The pump is a wiper motor with
a plastic peristaltic Cole-Parmer pump on it. With the stainless exhaust, the injector is probably gone. The control head is not much.

You should try to get into the local owners chapters. You could be a Great Laker, but there are others too, and of course, the international GMCMI to
join if just for the information.

You probably have little idea how big a community you just hooked up with, but just wait. This is an amazing and supportive group like few others.
The only other that I know of is that of the watermen of my world. For that reason, I paraphrase the common welcome given there. So,

May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth within her.

Welcome Don (et al)

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Russell Keith via Gmclist]

In addition to the valuable resources on Billy's site about the Thermasan, here is the patent, which is also a good read.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/02/7c/e5/edc613c0a195f5/US3882799.pdf
--
Russell Keith,
1978 E2 "Harry" 403 (still carbureted), Danny Dunn Tranny, Thorley, Stock Brakes w/Remote Vacuum Brake Booster, Quad Bags, Dakota Digital Dash, 6.5 kW
Onan, Dunedin, Florida

[John Wright via Gmclist]

Billy,
You need to add the patent pdf to the site.

JR

[James Hupy via Gmclist]

Can't for the life of me figure out the attraction of the Thermasan
apparatus. Sounds like a trouble riddled collection of stuff from Willy
Wonka and the "Chocolate" Factory. Why not just install a good mascerator
and dump your tanks like a normal person, instead of spraying crap down the
highway? (Grin)
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

[John Wright via Gmclist]

As they say,”poo happens”!

JR Wright
Michigan

> On Nov 7, 2019, at 10:40 AM, James Hupy via Gmclist <gmc...@list.gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
> Can't for the life of me figure out the attraction of the Thermasan
> apparatus. Sounds like a trouble riddled collection of stuff from Willy
> Wonka and the "Chocolate" Factory. Why not just install a good mascerator
> and dump your tanks like a normal person, instead of spraying crap down the
> highway? (Grin)
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>

[Billy Massey via Gmclist]

You're right. DONE.

Thanks for sharing, Russel!

bdub

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

James Hupy wrote on Thu, 07 November 2019 10:40

> Can't for the life of me figure out the attraction of the Thermasan apparatus. Sounds like a trouble riddled collection of stuff from Willy Wonka
> and the "Chocolate" Factory. Why not just install a good mascerator and dump your tanks like a normal person, instead of spraying crap down the
> highway? (Grin)
> Jim Hupy

Jim,

In the early 70's, dumps were still few and far between. There was no internet to with multiple sites to help you locate those. People that were
real travelers often ended up in a bind because they could locate potable water, but a legal dump might be a big issue.

Matt - Ex-Thermasan engineer

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Todd Sullivan via Gmclist]

Matt,

I don't see how you have answered Hupy's question. I cannot imagine
the benefit of installing such a complex system on a coach which takes all
hands on deck just to ensure minimal performance, reliability and utility.
I can only assume that those interested in such a system have not spent
enough time just addressing things which NEED to be addressed. Someone turn
on the light please?

Sully
Bellevue wa

[John R. Lebetski via Gmclist]

Cuz it worked when it left the factory, so it should be able to work again. Challenge.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

Several sites I hit get roughly half a dollar a gallon to pump your tank(s). Fortunately, if there's only me in the coach (the dogs go outside) the
black tank lasts four days of dish washing and using the toilet. Had I no dump at home, I'd be interested in a thermosan.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell

[Matt Colie via Gmclist]

Sully,

When the systems were still being installed, places to dump were much
less available.  FHU campsites were rare, and many campgrounds had pit
toilets and no dump facilities.
Do you NEED one these days?  Not likely.  With portable internet access,
I can always locate a cheap/free dump at least every fifth day.
And,
When properly installed, the systems were largely trouble free.  Most
owners just left the switch on and watched for the blinking light to
tell them it was working. The regular maintenance requirement was
changing out the hose in the pump.  In a GMC, this was an issue because
it is not easy to get under it, but in anything else it was not.  The
job was not much either if you had the new hose in hand.  Disconnect the
old hose and connect the new one, then undo the four wing nuts and open
the pump and swap hoses.
And,
This is really immaterial as the product has not been available for
about 30 years.  So, if someone chooses to re-install one, maybe he
wants hydraulic wipers, a galley fan that is louder the a jet plane
climbing out and converter that will destroy batteries if given a chance.

Matt Colie

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Richard H Staples via Gmclist]

Matt Colie wrote: " So, if someone chooses to re-install one, maybe he

wants hydraulic wipers, a galley fan that is louder the a jet plane
climbing out and converter that will destroy batteries if given a chance."

How did you know? I still remember reading of Lincoln adopting hydraulic wipers run off the power steering pump way back in the 60s. I thought what
a great idea! More powerful than electric, no electrical drain. I still like mine today. Infinitely variable speed is almost as good as
intermittent wipers.

My old buzz box still works well. (Had to replace some capacitors, but no touchy unrepairable electronic controls to worry about.) I added an on-off
rocker switch so I can easily turn it off if the battery voltage gets too high. Works for me.

We rarely use the propane stove or oven, so rarely need the kitchen vent fan. I did replace the bedroom fan with a Fantastic Fan if that's what you
meant.

So, yes, I hope someday to have a Thermasan system, to avoid paying the minimum $10 a dump fee hereabouts, or driving 10-15 miles each way to dump, or
carrying buckets in to the toilet (Yeccch!).

Oh, and I think my rear drum brakes are more than adequate. Might consider reaction rods some day.

To each his own. ;)

Rick Staples
--
Rick Staples, '75 Eleganza, Johnstown, CO

"Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the Wise to the Wise, and all paths may run ill." -Tolkien

[Larry Davick via Gmclist]

...to each his own.

I've never used the dump on my coach. Tom Hampton installed a macerator before I picked up the coach and have only used that. A garden hose to my
sewer pipe does the trick.


--
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy

[Don B]

I’m getting ready to install my new exhaust system and am deciding where to place the thermasan injector I am fabricating.

The thermasan installation instructions say to place the “Sanijector” before the mufflers. Right before the mufflers is going to be an O2 sensor
for my EFI install. My concern is that the thermasan operation may affect the O2 sensor reading which could cause issues during closed loop fueling.

Ideally I’d have two O2 sensors, one for each bank of cylinders, but may just start with one. On the other bank I could put the sanijector to try
and isolate it from the O2 sensor.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

I bought new ceramic coated headers (dougs) and want to use the preexisting O2 sensors in the collectors. Not much room between that and the muffler,
maybe 12 inches at most.

Is there any potential issue with placing the sanijector after the mufflers? Not hot enough? Wondering what the original motivation for installation
before the mufflers was.

[Todd Sullivan]

I believe they installed in front of the mufflers because of higher exhaust
temps and better combustion.

Why in the world do you feel the need to install a complex, unnecessary and
possibly ineffective system to an already complex potentially unreliable
40+ year old coach?

Sully
Bellevue wa

[6cu...@gmail.com]

Hmmmm....not sure if a mix of headers and sanijector thing is going to work as per OEM. Perhaps the exhaust gas velocity may be two high. I hope im
wrong or your going to have one heck of a mess in your mufflers.
--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Eric Roell]

Hello Don,I am intrigued about your headers.  I have just purchased my 76 Glenbrook with 76,000 miles on it and the exhaust manifolds need to be done.  A friend suggested Stainless steel headers and not sure if they are available.  Are yours custom made?
Eric Roell, Aurora, Ontario76 Glenbrook "Safari" 76,000 miles,Alcoa, Continental Kit, Fender Flares, Stainless Exhaust, Macerator, Ragusa Step

[6cu...@gmail.com]

Applied GMC sells them.....if memory serves me correct they are made by Doug Thorley Headers.

Chris McBride wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 15:36

> Hello Don,I am intrigued about your headers.  I have just purchased my 76 Glenbrook with 76,000 miles on it and the exhaust manifolds need to be
> done.  A friend suggested Stainless steel headers and not sure if they are available.  Are yours custom made?
> Eric Roell, Aurora, Ontario76 Glenbrook "Safari" 76,000 miles,Alcoa, Continental Kit, Fender Flares, Stainless Exhaust, Macerator, Ragusa Step
>

> On Monday, August 9, 2021, 12:34:05 p.m. EDT, Don B wrote:
>
> I’m getting ready to install my new exhaust system and am deciding where to place the thermasan injector I am fabricating.
>
> The thermasan installation instructions say to place the “Sanijector” before the mufflers. Right before the mufflers is going to be an O2
> sensor
> for my EFI install. My concern is that the thermasan operation may affect the O2 sensor reading which could cause issues during closed loop
> fueling.
>
> Ideally I’d have two O2 sensors, one for each bank of cylinders, but may just start with one. On the other bank I could put the sanijector to
> try
> and isolate it from the O2 sensor.
>
> Anyone have thoughts on this?
>
> I bought new ceramic coated headers (dougs) and want to use the preexisting O2 sensors in the collectors. Not much room between that and the
> muffler,
> maybe 12 inches at most.
>
> Is there any potential issue with placing the sanijector after the mufflers? Not hot enough? Wondering what the original motivation for
> installation
> before the mufflers was.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:

--
Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Don B]

sgltrac wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 11:47

> I believe they installed in front of the mufflers because of higher exhaust
> temps and better combustion.
>
> Why in the world do you feel the need to install a complex, unnecessary and
> possibly ineffective system to an already complex potentially unreliable
> 40+ year old coach?
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa

As an electrical/software engineer, complex, unnecessary, and possibly ineffective systems are my speciality 😁. For the funsies, and originality.
My grandfather ordered the coach with a Thermasan and I want to put it back to how it was 🙂.

Quote:

> Hmmmm....not sure if a mix of headers and sanijector thing is going to work as per OEM. Perhaps the exhaust gas velocity may be two high. I hope
> im wrong or your going to have one heck of a mess in your mufflers.

I can’t imagine the small amount of extra moisture in the system will cause too much of a problem. If it does I’ll just need a new muffler or two
perhaps… everything aft of the headers is stainless steel so hopefully it can handle this. Not too worried about it though.

Quote:

> Hello Don,I am intrigued about your headers. I have just purchased my 76 Glenbrook with 76,000 miles on it and the exhaust manifolds need to be
> done. A friend suggested Stainless steel headers and not sure if they are available. Are yours custom made?

I just sold some used SS headers from circa 1996 to cuda6 above. They held up for about 5 years of driving and 20 years of sitting. That being said,
they weren’t pretty, but were still functional. I’m doing a frame-off restoration and couldn’t stand to see them next to all the shiny new parts
😁.

Based on the state of the SS headers and what I’ve read about headers “glowing red” during periods of heavy engine load, I’d say that headers
are somewhat of a “wear” item. If you don’t maintain them (ie: recoat/protect from heavy corrosion/rust out), you’ll probably have to replace
them every 8-10 years. This is just my opinion.

I’m trying out the ceramic coated headers from Dougs (part D755Y) and we’ll see how well they last. They are mild steel but have a polished silver
ceramic coating rated for 1400F. There are also matte black ones available from Dougs. I’ve also seen bare mild steel from some vendors, and
periodically stainless steel ones from Dougs as well. They all have different part number suffixes.

All this being said, it seems I bought the last set of D755Y from Dougs/Pertronix direct. They seem to be available from other vendors on the web.
With the pandemic situation, manufacturers are halting production of/discontinuing older products, especially ones like this that are for niche
applications. Hopefully they do another run of GMC MH headers soon…

Either way, I’ll be holding onto my headers for use as a template if I need to make custom ones in the future. Gotta start getting some practice
with my TIG 👨🏼‍🏭

[Jim Kanomata]

We supply the Low Torque Headers that is made to fit the Motorhome.
It is not SS, but coated inside and out with Ceramic coating that seem to
last lot longer than those in the past.
It works well at low RPM 2300- 3000, so it is not for racers.
There is a trick to torquing them to make gaskets last long.
We did carry the SS headers, but no longer made.

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[twll...@gmail.com]

What is the advantage of headers? My coach is plenty fast, roars up hills etc. Are they for better gas mileage or bragging in sigfiles?

BTW, I would love to be able to burn my crap. Seems like a great way to "go" :)

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New Atwood fridge, water heater & furnace. New SS exhaust system,
6000w Onan, Iota Converter, R134A A/C, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses

[6cu...@gmail.com]

In this application i can only really offer 2 reasons.....one, exhaust manifolds crack/warp and are really expensive to replace....two, better ezhaust
gasket life. There may be a little better exhaust flow as well but i dont think there is much performance gain.

boybach wrote on Mon, 09 August 2021 19:44

> What is the advantage of headers? My coach is plenty fast, roars up hills etc. Are they for better gas mileage or bragging in sigfiles?
>
> BTW, I would love to be able to burn my crap. Seems like a great way to "go" :)
>
> Larry


--

Rich Mondor,

Brockville, ON

77 Hughes 2600

[Jim Kanomata]

The Headers we use on our coaches are designed to gain torque at low RPM,
not to race.
Better known as Tri Y Header design.( 2000-3200 rpm )
The O2 sensor will not be influenced by the Thermastan,

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
ji...@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502

[Eric Roell]

Thanks Jim.

Eric Roell, Aurora, Ontario76 Glenbrook "Safari" 76,000 miles,Alcoa, Continental Kit, Fender Flares, Stainless Exhaust, Macerator, Ragusa Step

[Matt Colie]

While at Thetford and as the last engineer on the Thermosan program, I can tell you that I did not have an olds 455 in the program. I can tell you
that some coaches mounted and extra "muffler" to create more turbulence to better burn the effluent. We (I) found it to be of no value in several
tests. The injector probe had (has?) a fine scree that will hold any particulate in the exhaust flame as needed. There really was nothing to hold.
The system started in the black tank with a relatively fine screen so there was very little particulate to deal with in the exhaust.

We did find that there was a small issue with the GMC application. They didn't shake and bounce as much as the others so the waste did not get broken
up as well as we might have liked. There was still stories of people doing full cross country runs without having to dump.

These systems performed very well for the most part. When I parted company with Thetford (a long story by itself), I was trying to introduce a
commercial system for the transit buss market. Greyhound was interested, but I never got to complete a prototype.

In four moves since I worked there, the box of T-san stuff has been lost.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[twll...@gmail.com]

idle rumination over my scrambled eggs this morning ...with all the bright young engineers out there these days surely someone could re-imagine the
thermasan concept by combining a mascerator with a (black) water injection system? :?

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New Atwood fridge, water heater & furnace. New SS exhaust system,
6000w Onan, Iota Converter, R134A A/C, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses