[GMCnet] Anyone know a source for the large LP Gas tank

[David J. Forjan]

Does anyone know a source for the large LP gas tank? A 19.3 gallon tank in my Palm Beach. Applied GMC only sells an tank of 11.2 gallons as their
biggest. Manchester does not build the tank to inventory, it takes 5-7 weeks to build to order. And seeing how mine is leaking, I'd like to replace
it ASAP. So...
Does anyone know a source for a new LP gas tank, 19.3 gallons, that fits into that compartment of the 1977 26' Palm Beach?
Thank you.
--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

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[Kingsley Coach]

David

What size is the original ? Get a used one ?
I've got a spare but I'm still using the propane out of it..<g> Anyone with
a parts coach will have one.

I'll be down for enchiladas(green) soon :)

Mike in NS

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 4:03 PM, David J. Forjan <david...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !

[Rob Mueller]

Contact Jim Bounds down at the COOP:

http://www.gmccoop.com/

At one time he had a heap of used tanks.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

[David J. Forjan]

Thanks Michael. Looking for a new one. Average lifespan of an ASME tank is 30-40 years. Mine is an example. 40 years old, and leaking at one of
the welds. And well taken care of I might add. If I'm putting in a replacement, I'll go with a new one.
BTW it's 12" dia. by 42" long, 19.3 gallons.
I'lll save you some of the green enchiladas. ;)

[D C _Mac_ Macdonald]

Are you SURE it's your tank that's leaking?

The on-off valve can leak if it's not all the way on or off.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ Since 30 November '53 ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ Member GMCMI and Classics ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
|[ ]~~~[][ ][]\
"--OO--[]---O-"



________________________________
From: Gmclist <gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org> on behalf of David J.Forjan <david...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 14:03
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Anyone know a source for the large LP Gas tank

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[Carl Stouffer]

I can't help with a stock size replacement tank, but are you SURE you need one that large? Mine was replaced with a Manchester 30# (about 7.5
gallons) tank and I only need to have it filled about once per year. Even at that, it usually only takes 3 - 5 gallons. Unless you use your furnace
a lot, or run your APU on propane, a smaller tank will work well and give you some additional storage space in the propane compartment. Oh, and we do
a lot of dry camping, running the fridge on propane and using the gas stove a lot.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging

[David J. Forjan]

Yes we're sure. The guy who checked it out is very good. With a mirror and a flashlight, both arranged just right, we could see the vapor, like a
fog, coming out of the weld in back where the semicircular end is welded onto the main cylinder part, right side of tank in rear of tank. All other
fittings were leak tested, and since it lost LP Gas when the valve was closed, we knew it had to be leaking at the tank. 2 guys checked all the
fittings, one of them found the leak at the weld. I was impressed. Thanks for taking the time

[gene barrow]

David,
Re-read Carl's post. You answered a question not asked.
He's not asking if you're sure your tank is leaking. He's asking if you're sure you want/need a hard to find new 19.3 gal LARGE tank.

Based on his usage- a smaller tank is more than adequate.

If you really want an original GMC tank- I have an extra one-yours for free if you can get it from Nor Cal to N.M. Not new but still holding the same
propane as when I acquired it about 10 years ago.
--
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach

[gene Fisher]

Try this.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/santa-rosa/p24892-cimg3399-small.html

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html

[poww...@gmail.com]

Beware that some of these fiberglass tanks have been recalled.(See Link Below) The tank to be installed this way it needs to be rated for horizontal service and some have 2 valves, one rated for vertical and one for horizontal service. Using a tank not rated for horizontal service can lead to liquid propane into your gas lines and that would be bad! One that are used on forklift service typically are mounted horizontally. You need to make sure that the tank is rated for horizontal VAPOR service!

This is how we use a DOT style tank to feed the system when we go long term such as spending the winter in Tucson.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6671-external-propane-tank-hookup.html

We have a 30# tank that last a week to 10 days depending on the weather. My LP Supplier supplied me with a steel DOT tank to replace the fiberglass unit.

I had bought one of the Fiberglas tanks:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p46780-lp-tank-modification.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p46778-lp-tank-modification.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/general-pictures/p46777-lp-tank-modification.html

Recall Link:
http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/cylinder-recall

The LP guys in FLA didn’t know how to fill them the first time that I went to have it filled. All the tanks by this company were recalled as unsafe, did not meet specification for this kind of tank construction. There a number of seller on the internet, just do a search for “fiberglass propane tank”. You have to be carful as some forklifts are a liquid fuel propane and use a vaporizer to feed the carb.

It is not that simple to be safe and do your research to get the right tank

Regards,

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
Newsletter Editor/Publisher
Tech Editor
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan

[Mike Hamm]

Here is one :
http://www.adventurerv.net/gas-tank-512-gal-p-8387.html?gclid=CjwKEAiA8dDEBRDf19yI97eO0UsSJAAY_yCSfFo4uSCWFx-D98NeABqJDfaCiNq5-DAzXkIOlYwmNxoCDsvw_wcB&utm_campaign=partsfeed_ppc&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=Froogle
--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts

[David J. Forjan]

5 1/2 is kinda small. Looking for 19.3 gallons, 12" dia. X 42" long. Thanks for the thought!

--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[Bob Dunahugh]

Anyone mention that a 78 Royale has about a 13" by 39" LP tank. That's what's in our rear bath 78 Royale. I can get a dead on measure if needed. Call if you want. 319-521-4891 Bob Dunahugh

[Mike Hamm]

there is this one larger but mounts from the top:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HTN3GSY?th=1

this one mounts from the top also and looks to be too long:

https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-YSN293-Horizontal-29-3-Gallon/dp/B00I8IY6FQ/ref=sr_1_1?srs=3028493011&ie=UTF8&qid=1486221730&sr=8-1

--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts

[RJW]

DavidJForjan wrote on Fri, 03 February 2017 00:54
> Yeah hey Gene,
> I answered k2gkk's post about am I sure it's leaking. Didn't get to Carl's yet. As for the size, considering all things, why not have the bigger
> tank, which at 80% fill (the pressure cut-off when filling) yields 15 gallons. And the 11.2 tank, at the 80% fill capacity is about 9 gallons.
> Maybe other folks don't mind finding gas filling stations when traveling, but to me it's one less hassle. And with heat and cooking and soon a
> fridge using LP, why cut one's self short, if available. I can let visitors stay in the motorhome, and then not have to worry about heat during
> fall and winter and early spring. And then there's the economics. Applied GMC charges about $498 for the 11.2 gallon, and $419 for the 5.5 gallon.
> 16% more money for over twice the capacity. What I"m really surprised at is that a new version of this large LP gas tank is not readily available.
> GMC thought 19.3 gallons was appropriate and I agree. Others may not, but I'll not compromise - yet anyway. I'll probably ask Manchester Tanks to
> build one and have a new one, not one that's 40 years old, which is the average life span for an ASME tank, cuz you know, it's kinda like a 60 pound
> bomb you carry around. If any one hing should be bought new for replacement seems it would be the LP gas tank. Thanks for you followup. David

It is always interesting to me that the folks that say get a smaller LP tank or get rid of it entirely seem to be from warmer climates. We fill our
LP tank several times a year and would never consider a smaller tank.

Also, the tank that came with our Palm Beach is listed (page 108 of the 1976 Operating Manual) as having a capacity of 62.0 lbs. Divide that by the
weight of LP gas (4.2 lbs/gallon) and you get 14.72 gallons, not 19.3 gallons. Did GMC go with a 19.3-gallon tank on some model years? I don't know.
I think the 23' footers came with a smaller tank from GM.

80% of 14.72 is almost 12 gallons (11.81 to be exact) not 9 gallons. I know that to be true because I often have close to 11 gallons put in when I
fill it up. I would love to get a larger tank if one was available at a reasonable cost and would fit.

--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com


Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Manny Tranny etc.

[Carl Stouffer]

rjw wrote on Sat, 04 February 2017 08:54

> DavidJForjan wrote on Fri, 03 February 2017 00:54
> > Yeah hey Gene,
> > I answered k2gkk's post about am I sure it's leaking. Didn't get to Carl's yet. As for the size, considering all things, why not have the
> > bigger tank, which at 80% fill (the pressure cut-off when filling) yields 15 gallons. And the 11.2 tank, at the 80% fill capacity is about 9
> > gallons. Maybe other folks don't mind finding gas filling stations when traveling, but to me it's one less hassle. And with heat and cooking and
> > soon a fridge using LP, why cut one's self short, if available. I can let visitors stay in the motorhome, and then not have to worry about heat
> > during fall and winter and early spring. And then there's the economics. Applied GMC charges about $498 for the 11.2 gallon, and $419 for the
> > 5.5 gallon. 16% more money for over twice the capacity. What I"m really surprised at is that a new version of this large LP gas tank is not
> > readily available. GMC thought 19.3 gallons was appropriate and I agree. Others may not, but I'll not compromise - yet anyway. I'll probably
> > ask Manchester Tanks to build one and have a new one, not one that's 40 years old, which is the average life span for an ASME tank, cuz you know,
> > it's kinda like a 60 pound bomb you carry around. If any one hing should be bought new for replacement seems it would be the LP gas tank. Thanks
> > for you followup. David
>
> It is always interesting to me that the folks that say get a smaller LP tank or get rid of it entirely seem to be from warmer climates. We fill
> our LP tank several times a year and would never consider a smaller tank.
>
> Also, the tank that came with our Palm Beach is listed (page 108 of the 1976 Operating Manual) as having a capacity of 62.0 lbs. Divide that by
> the weight of LP gas (4.2 lbs/gallon) and you get 14.72 gallons, not 19.3 gallons. Did GMC go with a 19.3-gallon tank on some model years? I don't
> know. I think the 23' footers came with a smaller tank from GM.
>
> 80% of 14.72 is almost 12 gallons (11.81 to be exact) not 9 gallons. I know that to be true because I often have close to 11 gallons put in when
> I fill it up. I would love to get a larger tank if one was available at a reasonable cost and would fit.

Note that David is from Tularosa, NM. Not as warm as Tucson in the winter, but certainly not a cooler climate like Michigan.

David evidently has his reasons for wanting a large tank, so more power to him. I have never had to buy propane on the road with my smaller tank in a
warmer climate, even using the propane fridge, stove, and occasionally the furnace. Just suggesting a less expensive alternative to a custom built
tank.

--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging

[David J. Forjan]

Thanks again Carl. I want to make a few more points. First, although I live in southern New Mexico now, I frequently go up north around ABQ and
Santa Fe (and back to the northeast too). And you know these motorhomes have no heat retention. As the temperature drops outside, it drops in
inside. Twice I stayed overnight up north when it got down to 40F at night. The furnace was going almost continually. Right after it achieved the
thermostat setting of 70F, turned off, it went back on almost right away. Traveling around in the north in fall or winter or early spring will
require heat. And my Dog is old, she deserves comfort. Second, the metal label on the LP Gas tank says it's 19.3 gallons. When It was empty it took
15 gallons, which is correct given 80% of 19.3 is about 15 gallons. Third, ordering a new tank from Manchester is not a custom built tank. They have
produced that specific tank (P/N 6818) since the beginning. They just don't stock them, you have to order one for them to build one. But it's not
custom. Monday I'll call and ask them to build one and we'll see how much and how long to get one. Fourth. I am adamant that it's not worth
replacing it with another tank that's 40 years old (thanks for the offers though). Even if cared for, that old tank still has 40 years of temperature
fluctuations, with expansion and contraction that metal experiences with temperature change, and those forces add up, 40 years is a long time, and
that's why the expected lifespan of an ASME tank if 30-40 years. Especially a vessel that holds something as flammable as LP Gas. No I'll get a new
one, even if that ultimately limits my choice to a smaller one. Fifth. If one day my water heater goes kaput, I'll replace it with an on-demand LP
Gas hot water heater. Have one in my house back east and it's very nice to have CONTINUOUS hot water with an on-demand heater. LP Gas on-demand
water heater is more efficient than electric. So into the future, I'll only increase my use of LP Gas, not decrease it. Sixth. Note that the
Manchester tank listed on Amazon, that mghamms linked to (thank you), the Manchester (6828) 14" x 40" ASME Tank, at 16.36 gallons is $538. So, from
the 11.2 gallon tank on Applied GMC at $498, to getting 5 more gallons, 44% more, is only another $40. Too bad that one on Amazon only mounts from
the top. I'll see what Manchester says about their 6818 when I ask, so maybe I don't have to re-engineer the mounting.

Seventh. Thank you all for your advice and opinions and experiences and offers and links. I have decided to get that 6818 from Manchester, new, and
Monday I should know how much they'll charge, and how long to get one. I have spent about $10k on new parts for this Palm Beach, and I won't
compromise for a used LP gas tank. I'm renovating this Palm Beach for the long haul (pun intended), because after I no longer want to travel around,
I want someone else to have the pleasure with this Palm Beach. The engine only has about 41K miles, so it still has legs as they say.

Thank you all again very much. Debate is one way we all get smarter and wiser. And given enough debate, solutions become obvious.

--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

My 26' has a new Suburban furnace, which will run perhaps ten - fifteen minutes oput of the hour on a night in the 20s, and doen't use a lot of
propane doing it. If you're using much more than that you migth want to look for restrictions in the air flow which aren't enough to stop the safety
from closing but are enough to affect the efficiency.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen

[David J. Forjan]

Hey Johnny. At 36F-40F at night my furnace runs more during the hour than not. But it's not lack of efficiency. The Palm Beach just does not hold
heat (or cold in the summer). No insulation of any import. You must have "stuff" that allows yours to hold heat better. One day I'll address that.
Thanks for the insights. Be well. david

--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[James Hupy]

Two things will influence the burner in the furnace. One is the thermostat,
and the other is a thermo switch whose purpose is to prevent overheating of
the burner and heat exchanger. It will rapid cycle like you describe. IF
ONLY 3 DUCTS ARE USED IN YOUR INSTALLATION, there is a good chance that is
what is happening. The fix is to use the 4th knockout in the furnace and
run another duct to a colder spot in your coach. My new furnace did what I
just described until I added a 4th duct. Now even when it is 25° outside,
the furnace cycles with the thermostat like it should. The manual that came
with the new furnace describes this.
Jim Hupy

[Bob Dunahugh]

Needed to leave the GMC outside one night, and day last week. Left the furnace on the entire time. As I never drain the water out. I keep it my heated shop. I spent a few hours in it out there to do some things. It was in the upper teen's outside that night. High of 24 that day. While I was out there. The furnace ran very little. I think twice during my time in it. I was paying attention to that run time. As I had added insulation. And well wrapped the heat ducts so that the heat from the furnace got into the living area. RV furnaces are sized to 1000 BTU's per liner foot for units like ours.


Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

[A.]

BobDunahugh wrote on Sun, 05 February 2017 13:07

> Needed to leave the GMC outside one night, and day last week. Left the furnace on the entire time. As I never drain the water out. I keep it my
> heated shop. I spent a few hours in it out there to do some things. It was in the upper teen's outside that night. High of 24 that day. While I was
> out there. The furnace ran very little. I think twice during my time in it. I was paying attention to that run time. As I had added insulation. And
> well wrapped the heat ducts so that the heat from the furnace got into the living area. RV furnaces are sized to 1000 BTU's per liner foot for
> units like ours.
>
> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

You did the right thing adding insulation. It takes more propane to heat a GMC than it would to heat the 1500 SF of my residence in the same
temperatures.

If you can block the drafts and get R-10 in the walls and ceiling plus install "honeycomb" blinds with valences around all the windows, you can cut
the heat loss by probably 70% or so.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"When I grow up I am going to be a curmudgeon."

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

As far as I know the 26' E II is as stock as it gets as far as insulation is concerned./ Maybe I got a Monday build instead of a friday?

--johnny

--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.

"The road goes on forever, and the party never ends" --Robert Earl Keen

[Bob Dunahugh]

There were those that thought my method of improving the insulation, and wrapping the heat ducts wasn't going to help much. I continued my method. As I saw it. Anything was more then I had to start with. One thing that I was extremely surprised about. Was the number of openings for the outside air to come in. And these openings were factory. Not from a PO. I must confess that building another GMC from almost scratch. Just like we always wanted to do to our first one. BUT DIDN'T. Was, for me, fun to do. It's for all of us here. A HOBBY. RIGHT? In reality. Adding insulation was always something that I wanted to do to that first one. Now I had that chance. Plus I always thought that a lot of issues were from air infiltration from the outside. That proved way more true then I ever thought. This 78 Royale is more comfortable as to temps. And much more quiet on the road, or parked. The money, and effort is paying off. BIG TIME.

Bob Dunahugh

The 78 Royale Mouse House


________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh <yenk...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 1:07 PM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: RE: Anyone know a source for the large LP Gas tank

[James Hupy]

When you get a good Coachman up fitted Royale or Birchaven, they are the
top of the heap. But, some of them suffered from monday/Friday quality
control. The guys that sprayed in the foam must have been stoners. But, the
cabinets are first quality, along with the upholstery. Pretty much fit and
finish is much better than the 73/75 Era coaches. I prefer the 403 equipped
coaches but I admit that it a personal preference. I have no data to
support that claim, except for experience with several coaches with them,
my own included. I have over 130000 miles on mine, and it has never been
open. Several others that I service have similar mileages. They are not
perfect, just much more evolved.
Jim Hupy

[David J. Forjan]

Just an update FWIW. I still don't have a price on a new Manchester LP 19.3 Gal. tank yet. Have to have my RV dealer call their supplier to call
Manchester and order one. And only when everyone calculates their profit will I know what it will cost me. There's 3 profit margins in that process
right there. However, Jennifer Mann at Manchester still can't decide which of their part numbers corresponds to the tank in my Palm Beach. It's
specific to the mounting feet; their height/offset, and distance apart and from the ends. Only when she figures this out will I be able to order one
and learn the price. The metal ID plate on the tank is all but useless due to age and placement and being poorly engraved. Lead time is 5 weeks from
ordering.

[Jon Payne]

Dave,

Any luck with the custom made propane tank from Manchester?

Jon
--
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN

[David J. Forjan]

Hi Jon, sorry about missing your note. My email address has changed and I didn't see your note until now. Golly I'm sorry.

The new tank came in last week and my RV dealer will be installing this new tank this week. They ordered a new tank from Manchester (thru their
supplier), Manchester part number 6819. That tank, 6819, is the exact same size and dimensions as the original tank. Manchester doesn't make the
original GMC motorhome tank anymore. But this new one is exactly the same except for the way it mounts. The mounts are on top. We won't be using
those mounts, the RV dealer guys will fabricate a different way to mount it in, ultimately using straps to hold it in place. I will be reviewing
their design on Wednesday.

Manchester needed 6 weeks to manufacture that tank, but, now I have a full-size LP gas tank, 19.3 gallons minus 20% for fill maximum which equals
15.44 gallons of LP gas on board. The price is cost effective even though it's custom built. I was quoted $750 as my dealer cost. That equals
$48.57 per gallon of LP on board. Compared to Applied GMC's offering, which is 11.2 gallons minus 20% which equals 8.96 gallons on board, at a price
of $500, which equates to $55.80 per gallon on board. I will pay for installation, how much I don't know yet, but other GMC owners might be able to
do the installation themselves. I don't have the tools nor do I want to buy another set of tools (all of mine are at my home back east).

It's VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE that if anyone orders this tank, 6819, you must specify if you want the sending unit included (for connecting to the gauge
inside the RV to show current amount of LP on board). The 6819 does not come with the sending unit included. I will have a price breakdown late this
week.

Sorry for the delay in updating this topic, but I wasn't gonna believe that I'm getting that tank until it actually arrived (not to mention that my RV
dealer never calls me. With them, if I'm not in their face, they forget about me. Out of sight, out of mind. And I'm not an in-your-face person
anymore)

Will provide all the pricing details and installation details late this week.

Hope all of you who read this are well.
david Forjan

--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[A.]

DavidJForjan wrote on Mon, 08 May 2017 16:06

> Hi Jon, sorry about missing your note. My email address has changed and I didn't see your note until now. Golly I'm sorry.
>
> The new tank came in last week and my RV dealer will be installing this new tank this week. They ordered a new tank from Manchester (thru their
> supplier), Manchester part number 6819. That tank, 6819, is the exact same size and dimensions as the original tank. Manchester doesn't make the
> original GMC motorhome tank anymore. But this new one is exactly the same except for the way it mounts. The mounts are on top. We won't be using
> those mounts, the RV dealer guys will fabricate a different way to mount it in, ultimately using straps to hold it in place. I will be reviewing
> their design on Wednesday.
>
> Manchester needed 6 weeks to manufacture that tank, but, now I have a full-size LP gas tank, 19.3 gallons minus 20% for fill maximum which equals
> 15.44 gallons of LP gas on board. The price is cost effective even though it's custom built. I was quoted $750 as my dealer cost. That equals
> $48.57 per gallon of LP on board. Compared to Applied GMC's offering, which is 11.2 gallons minus 20% which equals 8.96 gallons on board, at a
> price of $500, which equates to $55.80 per gallon on board. I will pay for installation, how much I don't know yet, but other GMC owners might be
> able to do the installation themselves. I don't have the tools nor do I want to buy another set of tools (all of mine are at my home back east).
>
> It's VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE that if anyone orders this tank, 6819, you must specify if you want the sending unit included (for connecting to the
> gauge inside the RV to show current amount of LP on board). The 6819 does not come with the sending unit included. I will have a price breakdown
> late this week.
>
> Sorry for the delay in updating this topic, but I wasn't gonna believe that I'm getting that tank until it actually arrived (not to mention that
> my RV dealer never calls me. With them, if I'm not in their face, they forget about me. Out of sight, out of mind. And I'm not an in-your-face
> person anymore)
>
> Will provide all the pricing details and installation details late this week.
>
> Hope all of you who read this are well.
> david Forjan

Clearly they gen up a tank when they get an order. There really is no good excuse why they can't weld the brackets to the bottom instead of the top if
they only make them when they get an order. Sad that you have to jump through hoops to bastardize the installation because of their inept business
model.

--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama

"Every day I become more convinced that I am the only person left on the planet that recognizes nonsense for what it is."

[David J. Forjan]

You are absolutely correct. I'll bet they even still have the blueprints for the GMC motorhome version. Their business model also ignores the
thousands of OLD GMC motorhome tanks still in use, yet to be replaced. Very sad, like you said.
david

--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[David J. Forjan]

Just a note to anyone listening that I did not see the design yet that the RV service center has for installing my new LP gas tank. I have been
delayed again. Amazing how many times I get bumped, at all sorts of service centers, by walk-ins, when I'm the one who has an appointment.

Will post an update when the service center gets around to doing their job.

Be well.

[jdli...@hotmail.com]

I look forward to seeing the results, inevitably these tanks will fail as they get older, I want to replace mine with a tank as close to the original
as possible. Please post some pictures of the tank and installation when they get finished. For all of the supposed business focus on the customer it
is very hard to get good customer service these days. I make it a point to provide excellent response to my customer's needs and to refrain from
patronizing businesses that don't do the same. I wonder how many tanks would have to be purchased at one time to get them to build them with the
mounts on the bottom and if a group buy could make that happen? I am a firm believer in preventative not reactive maintenance.
--
JD Lisenby- USAF Ret
1978 Royale-455
Electromotive Tec2 FI & ignition

Navarre, FL

[David J. Forjan]

Will do JD

--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

I suspect what they're making for you is the same as was on my Itasca SOB. Identical to the GMC tank, except it had top mounts and was suspended from
some frame pieces under the chassis. Likely a much more produced version, there are a LOT of RVs out there on P-30 and Ford chassis. Should I get
caught up in the same hassle, I think I'll ship them the bad tank with a a note, "Duplicate this for me please."

--johnny
--

76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.

"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Jon Payne]

So is Manchester the only RV propane tank manufacturer for these United States and Canada?

--
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN

[David J. Forjan]

Surely there's more. For me, I only pursued them because they made the original (on many GMCs), and they have the blueprints somewhere surely, and
the tank part of the 6819 tank is identical to ours. Coincidentally, my RV guy called and they've completed installation. I'll be picking it up
later. I'm psyched. But of primary importance, someone should be offering us GMC Motorhome enthusiasts a new 19 gallon replacement. Could be that
the quickest solution would be to convince Manchester to offer us the custom order of their almost identical 6819. Actually, the assembly starts out
the same. First the tubular body is welded. They start out identical. Then the tapped holes and brackets are done. Seems someone could give the
builder our design blueprints, instead of the 6819 prints, and he'd be doing the same work, just to our blueprints. They build to order.

I'm pondering how to convince Manchester to do so.
david

--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[Emery Stora]

There is such a limited demand for the GMC tanks that it is unlikely that any manufacturer will make them as a stocked item.
I think it is very rare for a tank to go bad. How did yours fail? Did it rust through?
Maintenance such as wire brushing or sanding, priming and painting ones tank would prevent rusting.

I had an extra for sale and listed it on the GMCnet a couple of times but no one seemed to need one. I sold it on Craigs List a couple of years back for $100.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

[David J. Forjan]

Hey Emory. No it did not rust, here was a leak on the welded seam on the tank, where the rounded-end tank pieces are welded to the cylindrical tube
of the main body of the tank. Has leaked since I got it. Took a while to find it, meaning other possibilities were trouble-shooted. We figured the
least probable cause would be the welds, and even then, it took a while to isolate it; mirror and flashlight in just the right positions and we saw a
mist coming out of that spot (on the backside right side of the tank). I also reached the life expectancy of these model tanks and it's 40 years,
and this year is my old tank's 40th anniversary.

[Emery Stora]

Where did you get the information on the life expectancy at 40 years?

If they all fail at 40 year that means that most of the GMC motorhomes will need new tanks NOW!

Emery Stora

[David J. Forjan]

I'll have to check my browser history, I don't remember. But - I saw that 40yr. life expectancy, and right then and there I decided on a new tank.
I'll check my browser history, it will take a while, cuz I'll have to peruse many "hits".

[David J. Forjan]

At this link is one reference I just found, still have not found my original link. But they seem like smart "Engineer's Place for News and
Discussion":
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/40263/Calculating-the-Design-Life-Cycle-of-Pressure-Vessels#comment419999

I'll keep looking.

[Matt Colie]

OK Everybody,
Relax....

What David found was a discussion of the DESIGN life expectancy of pressure vessels subject to heat and corrosion. This would be applicable to power
plants and things in a marine application.

As far as I know, nobody's propane tank is in that position. David's tank was probably defective at manufacture, it just took this look to show up.
When I was having trouble with my propane tank (a 73) a few years back, I took it to a tank man I have known for years to have him replace the service
valve. things in the shop got confused and the hydo-tested it. It came back fine (actually a ++ rating), but with the bad valve reinstalled.....

We laughed about it and I changed out the valve myself.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

[Rob Mueller]

Matt,

I'll second your conclusion re David's LPG tank.

I've been "playing with" pressure vessels of all types from liquid oxygen
convertors in the USAF to the ~ 1/8" walled inconel steel Oxygen Purge
System filled with 6000 psi O2 that sat on top of the Project Apollo
Portable Life Support System.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 10:56 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Anyone know a source for the large LP Gas tank

OK Everybody,
Relax....

What David found was a discussion of the DESIGN life expectancy of pressure
vessels subject to heat and corrosion. This would be applicable to power
plants and things in a marine application.

As far as I know, nobody's propane tank is in that position. David's tank
was probably defective at manufacture, it just took this look to show up.
When I was having trouble with my propane tank (a 73) a few years back, I
took it to a tank man I have known for years to have him replace the service
valve. things in the shop got confused and the hydo-tested it. It came
back fine (actually a ++ rating), but with the bad valve reinstalled.....

We laughed about it and I changed out the valve myself.

Matt

[Emery Stora]

There is no legal retirement age for an ASME tank. I did some Internet searching and found sites where they said they had tanks from the 40s and 50s still in service.

I suppose it is determined by the maintenance of the tank. Periodic re painting and visual inspection should be a good practice. Unless a propane tank becomes corroded the steel and welds should last indefinitely.

A pressure vessel such as a boiler which is subject to higher temperatures and also expansion and contraction cycles encounter stress cracking which one would not expect with a propane storage tank. Those should likely be retired at 40 years.

In your case it wasn't the life of the tank causing failure. You said it was a bad weld from the manufacture of the tank.

I don't plan to replace my tank just because it's now 41 years old but I will examine it periodically.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

[David J. Forjan]

Hi you guys. Thanks for all the comments. First let me say that I'll have photos and a price breakdown for my new 19.3 gallon LP gas tank posted
tonight at the latest.

Second, I did not say that the welds were bad from manufacture or defective at manufacture. Actually I would advise against assuming the problem was
a defect. Especially with the need to err on the side of caution if only cuz we're talking about highly combustible stuff, not to mention 40 years is
a lot of contracting/expanding and bouncing. Moreover, putting another 40 year-old LP gas 60lb. bomb-equivalent to replace mine seemed illogical to
me. Additionally, I want the motorhome to be the best condition I can, not just for my time using it, but also for whoever else drives this in the
next 40 years.

Third, it would behoove someone smarter than me to conclude what really is the expected life expectancy of these tanks, cuz 40 years is a long time.
That's a lot of contracting and expanding cuz there's lots of temperature changes in that time, and harsh climates - and alot alot alot of bouncing.
Lots of tanks don't bounce in their lifetime, meaning our tanks have that ADDED stress.. We should also keep in mind that all these pressure vessels
are built only for their purpose - meaning a 60lb. tank is not built as tough as a boiler. Just built to hold 60lb. of LP gas for however many
years.

But for me, I didn't need to fully understand the issue of life expectancy. I had to replace mine now and so that forced me to decide on used vs. new
right away. And like I said, given that choice, it's obvious to me to buy new. But - my desire was for the original 19.3 gallon size tank, not the
11.2 gallon tank that AppliedGMC sells. That's been my quest. And toward that end, I look forward to sharing the price breakdown and installation
photos tonight.

[James Hupy]

It is not a bomb, or anywhere near the equal of one. Millions upon millions
of propane tanks are in reliable service daily with no problems. The
regulators and hoses and brass and copper fittings, along with poor
installation procedures are responsible for most of the issues we see or
hear of when it comes to compressed flammable gasses. Regular maintenance
is the key, along with a good nose.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

[David J. Forjan]

Sorry - I should have said it's a bomb if it's leaking

[Matt Colie]

DavidJForjan wrote on Sat, 13 May 2017 14:31
> <snip>

> Second, I did not say that the welds were bad from manufacture or defective at manufacture. Actually I would advise against assuming the problem
> was a defect. Especially with the need to err on the side of caution if only cuz we're talking about highly combustible stuff, not to mention 40
> years is a lot of contracting/expanding and bouncing. Moreover, putting another 40 year-old LP gas 60lb. bomb-equivalent to replace mine seemed
> illogical to me. Additionally, I want the motorhome to be the best condition I can, not just for my time using it, but also for whoever else drives
> this in the next 40 years.

> <snip>
> david

David,

I know you did not say that the weld was bad at manufacture. I said that. I wrote that with good reason.
If you are correct and the tanks has failed (cracked) at the weld or where it should have been welded, it was a defective weld. That is all there is
to that.

A properly done weld should be as strong and tough (two different things) as the parent metal. This is both an ASME and ASTM standards. I have done
tests to the welds in super-critical (steam reference) power plant welds to prove this. This is not nearly a unique situation.

Welded assemblies can fail. 45 years ago I supervised the assembly of the DECO Monroe power plant. It was designed for a 20 year life. It is still
on line, but five years ago the reheat piping was replaced with drawn tubing. It was originally seamed. While the field welds were no issue, the
seams were machine welded and an ultrasonic inspection showed cracking starting in the root of the welded seams on some sections. This was no
surprise to me because the X-rays of the welds that I certified frequently showed poor root fusion. They were defective 45 years ago and only had to
be heated to 1005°F about 200 times with 500 psi steam to start cracking.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

_______________________________________________

[Rob Mueller]

G'day,

Some additional information:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090726234748AAjVAlH

http://www.inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Propane_Tank_Gas_Pressures.php

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-is-the-pressure-inside-domestic-l
pg-cylinders.689568/

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist...@list.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of David J.
Forjan
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 4:32 AM
To: gmc...@list.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Anyone know a source for the large LP Gas tank

[David J. Forjan]

Thank you Matt and Rob. Very informative.

david
--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[David J. Forjan]

Photos coming of my LP gas installation; Manchester 6819, 19.3 gallons, 12" X 42". Will post price breakdown later. david

[David J. Forjan]

sorry - photo did not upload - do not know why. will try something different. david

[David J. Forjan]

Cannot upload photos, quote: "File attachment is too big (over allowed limit of 1024 bytes)". Any suggestions anyone please?

[Richard Denney]

Post them at Gmcmhphotos.com (it's free), and link them here.

Rick "works best for email readers" Denney

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 10:35 PM David J. Forjan <david...@icloud.com>
wrote:

> Cannot upload photos, quote: "File attachment is too big (over allowed
> limit of 1024 bytes)". Any suggestions anyone please?
> david
>
--

'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
rick at rickdenney dot com

[A.]

DavidJForjan wrote on Sat, 13 May 2017 21:34

> Cannot upload photos, quote: "File attachment is too big (over allowed limit of 1024 bytes)". Any suggestions anyone please?
> david

The sysadmin set a tiny limit to keep people from attaching files because the server has limited drive space.

You post to the photo site (that has enough space for pictures) and link the url, or urls, in your post.

If you want to imbed the picture to display in your post, use the IMG tags (see the "Help" section of the forum AND follow that with the url(s)).

If you want something really elegant (that shows up in the forum as a picture without an extraneous url, and as a url for the mail list subcribers)
read here:

http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=31075&start=0&rid=2083
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Every day I become more convinced that I am the only person left on the planet that recognizes nonsense for what it is."

[David J. Forjan]

Thank you. I saw photos embedded in a post and I thought I could just upload directly. This may be awhile though, FWIW, I have an account at
gmcmphotos.com, but I forgot my login info, like I always do, my computer also forgot that info, and to reset, the only option is to send to what was
my email address I used at that time, but it's no longer my email address now, and so gmcmphotos.com can only send me that info to my old address not
in use anymore. Bummer

david
--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[Richard Denney]

I feel your pain. But an email to Billy Massey will sort it quickly.

Rick "who has had to do this in the past" Denney

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 11:20 PM David J. Forjan <david...@icloud.com>
wrote:

--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
rick at rickdenney dot com

[David J. Forjan]

giving up for tonight - cannot upload photos - time to eat. david

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

David -

Simply register a new account. Then you can post your pictures.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[Billy Massey]

I'll revive the old account.

[David J. Forjan]

Good morning folks. And Happy Mother's Day to all Moms out there.

Thanks to Billy I got into my album account and posted 7 pix of my new LP gas tank installation. A very clean job. And sturdy. I'm thrilled. Here
are two links, the first goes to the main page of the gmcmhphotos.com page which posts new photos. The second goes to my album (without having to
sign in) cuz I'm not sure how long the new photos stay on the home page. Note that 2 photos got somehow turned sideways somehow during the upload.
Might be confusing at first.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/index.php

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6962-forjan-27s-1977-palm-beach.html

Here's a price breakdown:
New 6819 tank from Manchester - $687
Tank volume sending unit for coach gauge - $51 (could have been ordered installed already in the tank but the RV guys forgot to do that, they put in
their own new one)
Labor - $300 (many of you guys could do this yourselves, all my tools are back east and I didn't want to buy new tools. Note this includes their
time to design it once the tank came, which was tricky and tight as I mention below)
Freight for the tank delivery - $225 (this was a surprisingly big number. In hindsight I'd like to think others can have had it shipped cheaper)
New regulator - $25 (this was necessary because the old one was too fat, and that was a problem cuz note that this new tank has the fittings about in
the middle of the tank. This makes them stick out farther than the old ones. The old tank had those fittings up higher on the tank, which moves them
farther from the compartment door when closed. Hope I said that clearly.

I must mention that they guys had to remove about 3/8 of the insulation on the wall behind the tank cuz it was that tight (cuz the fittings stick out
more being on the frontmost part of the tank, in the middle). But after that, the compartment door closes just fine without hitting anything.

Any questions, just ask.
Thanks to you all for all your suggestions and information - about ALL aspects of LP gas tanks.

Be well and have a great day.

david
--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico

[David J. Forjan]

I must also say that anyone can call me anytime with questions, even if you're not a member of the forum. I gladly give my phone number out all the
time. My one and only one number is my cell, 607-427-9131.
Be well.

[Johnny Bridges via Gmclist]

That's a nice looking install. Taking the tank out of both of mine was like a Chinee puzzle - you hfta twist and turn and shimmy and dance, but they
come out. Took me an hour or so for each. I bet the Factory Guy picked them up and slipped them right in the bay in seconds.. because he did it all
day.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

[David J. Forjan]

Thanks Johnny. And - I'll mention now the company that did the work. Alamo RV Sales and Service in Alamogordo NM. Justin designed and managed the
installation. They're located at 7023 Highway 54/70, Alamogordo NM 88310, phone number is (575) 434-3783.

david
--
David J. Forjan, 1977 403 26' Palm Beach, glad to have the 3.70 Final Drive and pork chop for level front end, Tularosa New Mexico