RE: [FLEx] Digest for flex-list@googlegroups.com - 5 updates in 2 topics

[kristine Stenzel]

Hi Kevin, Hi Andy -

 

Thanks for your messages and suggestions. Andy, I will look into the XLingPaper program a bit more, but would really prefer not to have to be dependent on a middle-man program in order to transfer and incorporate my analyzed data into my academic work. All I want is for it to be exported in a more manipulatable format.

 

Kevin, in response to your query, I actually work with three fields in Toolbox, a citation form (for dictionary-making purposes), a lexeme form, and an underlying form (both of these for purposes of linguistic analysis). For some morphemes, these all coincide, but often they do not, so I need all three because each has a specific function (for analysis and/or for dictionary making).

 

Using the underlying form as the lexeme form in Flex makes sense from the linguistic analysis viewpoint, and I realize that if I did that, the automatic interlinear function would work the way I want it to. The problem is that the underlying form is an abstract form that is not what is used in the practical orthography. So if I have a text written or transcribed by a speaker of the language using the practical orthography and import it into Flex to do the interlinear analysis, Flex is going to go look in the lexeme field to find correspondences for those orthographic forms, but it won’t recognize the underlying forms it finds as being the equivalents of the orthographic words the speaker would have written unless I can program it to do that. As it is now, in order for Flex to ‘recognize’ the lexemes, I would have to first ‘translate’ the orthographic representation into the corresponding underlying forms in the text.

 

This is exactly the situation which I could easily deal with in Toolbox by simply setting up the interlinear parsing paths to ‘look’ at the orthographic/lexeme form but ‘return’ the underlying form to my interlinear morpheme line. What I need to know is whether it is possible to program a different parse path in Flex that what is there automatically. I’m hoping there is a way to do this, because it looks like Flex has some other nice features that Toolbox didn’t have. But if I can’t find a way to do this, then I will have to stick with Toolbox.

 

Thanks again for your help – hope there’s a solution for this case, as I imagine I’m not the only person with such issues to deal with.

 

Best,

Kris

 

 

From: flex...@googlegroups.com [mailto:flex...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 6:00 PM
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Subject: [FLEx] Digest for flex...@googlegroups.com - 5 updates in 2 topics

 

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·       how to program alternative interlinear output and simple output to word - 3 Updates

·       Negation of verbs - 2 Updates

how to program alternative interlinear output and simple output to word

"kristine Stenzel" <kris.s...@gmail.com>: Sep 27 01:33PM -0300 Hello all,   I am a longtime user of Toolbox trying to make the jump to Flex. I managed to map my existing fields from Toolbox onto Flex and import my data, but now I am running into two problems that I cannot seem to solve by myself.     The first is related to the interlinear analysis function (Texts & Words). The languages I work on have lexemes with very different surface and underlying forms. In Toolbox, I had separate fields for these forms - I put the surface/orthographic in the 'lexeme' \lx field - and the underlying form in a separate underlying form \u field that I created.   Then, when I set up the interlinear parsing process in Toolbox, for the first (word to morpheme parse) I had it go from the (orthographic) words in the 'text' \t line in my texts database to the lexical database and look at the 'lexeme' \lx field, but I had it output the underlying form \u back to the morpheme \m line in my interlinear analysis. This worked like a charm.     Now, after converted my existing database to Flex, although I still have these two fields, the 'analyze' tab in Texts & Words is automatically set to search for and return the lexeme form, but I want it to give me back the underlying form, as I had set up in Toolbox. I have been told that anything I was able to program in Toolbox can also be programmed in Flex, but I'm having trouble finding out how. If anyone has done something like this or can point me to a possible solution, I'd be very grateful.     The second problem is with export formats for finished interlinear analyses from Flex. Again, my reference is Toolbox, from which I could export analyses to Rich Text Format, choosing whatever fields I wanted, and then easily open this rtf file in word. What is the equivalent procedure in Flex? I have tried all the options in Export Interlinear and find none that work in such a straightforward manner. Either I get output with internal column boundaries that I cannot deal with in word, or I have to process output from Flex through the XLing Paper program, which gives me pdf output or something from which I still need to cut and paste if I want to work with it in word. This seems to be a huge step backward from the simple export function that was available in Toolbox - but maybe I just can't find the equivalent option. Again, if anyone can steer me the right direction, I will be very appreciative.     Best,   Kristine Stenzel

Andy Black <andy_...@sil.org>: Sep 27 11:31AM -0700 On 9/27/2017 9:33 AM, kristine Stenzel wrote:   ...   The second problem is with export formats for finished interlinear analyses from Flex. Again, my reference is Toolbox, from which I could export analyses to Rich Text Format, choosing whatever fields I wanted, and then easily open this rtf file in word. What is the equivalent procedure in Flex? I have tried all the options in Export Interlinear and find none that work in such a straightforward manner. Either I get output with internal column boundaries that I cannot deal with in word, or I have to process output from Flex through the XLing Paper program, which gives me pdf output or something from which I still need to cut and paste if I want to work with it in word. This seems to be a huge step backward from the simple export function that was available in Toolbox – but maybe I just can't find the equivalent option. Again, if anyone can steer me the right direction, I will be very appreciative.   It is possible to produce Word output from XLingPaper. See http://software.sil.org/downloads/r/xlingpaper/resources/documentation/xxe7/UserDocXMLmind.htm#sFAQProduceWord for more information on that. You could then copy and paste from the Word document produced by XLingPaper.   Having said that, you may want to consider just learning to use XLingPaper instead. See http://software.sil.org/downloads/r/xlingpaper/resources/documentation/WhyUseXLingPaper.pdf for the advantages of climbing the learning curve that XLingPaper has.   One nice thing about using the PDF XLingPaper produces is that interlinear text will automatically wrap long lines in the PDF. These long lines do not automatically wrap with the Word output. With Word, you have to manually fix the long lines (see http://software.sil.org/downloads/r/xlingpaper/resources/documentation/xxe7/UserDocXMLmind.htm#secExInterlinearContinuation in the user documentation for how to do that).   --Andy   Best,   Kristine Stenzel   --   You are subscribed to the publicly accessible group "FLEx list".   Only members can post but anyone can view messages on the website.   To change your status, please write to flex_d...@sil.org.   You can join this group by going to http://groups.google.com/group/flex-list.   ---   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "FLEx list" group.   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to flex-list+...@googlegroups.com.   To post to this group, send email to flex...@googlegroups.com.   To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/flex-list/019701d337ae%24665ceec0%243316cc40%24%40gmail.com.   For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Kevin Warfel <Kevin_...@sil.org>: Sep 27 04:15PM -0400 Hi Kristine,       You wrote: “The languages I work on have lexemes with very different surface and underlying forms. In Toolbox, I had separate fields for these forms – I put the surface/orthographic in the ‘lexeme’ \lx field – and the underlying form in a separate underlying form \u field that I created. ”       In FLEx, the underlying form should normally go in the Lexeme field and the surface form in the Citation Form field. Is that the way you imported your data from Toolbox to FLEx?       Blessings,   Kevin       Kevin Warfel   Associate Dictionary and Lexicography Services Coordinator   a.k.a. Dictionary Development Coordinator   SIL International       Current technology makes it possible to provide those translating into just about any language with both a dictionary and a thesaurus in the target language, the standard tools of the trade for professional translators, so why are mother-tongue translators in minority languages still expected to do their work without these tools? Ask me about *Rapid Word Collection* after reading about it at rapidwords.net <http://www.rapidwords.net/>.       *From:* flex...@googlegroups.com [mailto:flex...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *kristine Stenzel *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:34 PM *To:* flex...@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [FLEx] how to program alternative interlinear output and simple output to word       Hello all,   I am a longtime user of Toolbox trying to make the jump to Flex. I managed to map my existing fields from Toolbox onto Flex and import my data, but now I am running into two problems that I cannot seem to solve by myself.       The first is related to the interlinear analysis function (Texts & Words). The languages I work on have lexemes with very different surface and underlying forms. In Toolbox, I had separate fields for these forms – I put the surface/orthographic in the ‘lexeme’ \lx field – and the underlying form in a separate underlying form \u field that I created.   Then, when I set up the interlinear parsing process in Toolbox, for the first (word to morpheme parse) I had it go from the (orthographic) words in the ‘text’ \t line in my texts database to the lexical database and look at the ‘lexeme’ \lx field, but I had it *output* the underlying form \u back to the morpheme \m line in my interlinear analysis. This worked like a charm.       Now, after converted my existing database to Flex, although I still have these two fields, the ‘analyze’ tab in Texts & Words is automatically set to search for and return the lexeme form, but I *want* it to give me back the underlying form, as I had set up in Toolbox. I have been told that anything I was able to program in Toolbox can also be programmed in Flex, but I’m having trouble finding out how. If anyone has done something like this or can point me to a possible solution, I’d be very grateful.       The second problem is with export formats for finished interlinear analyses from Flex. Again, my reference is Toolbox, from which I could export analyses to Rich Text Format, choosing whatever fields I wanted, and then easily open this rtf file in word. What is the equivalent procedure in Flex? I have tried all the options in Export Interlinear and find none that work in such a straightforward manner. Either I get output with internal column boundaries that I cannot deal with in word, or I have to process output from Flex through the XLing Paper program, which gives me pdf output or something from which I still need to cut and paste if I want to work with it in word. This seems to be a huge step backward from the simple export function that was available in Toolbox – but maybe I just can’t find the equivalent option. Again, if anyone can steer me the right direction, I will be very appreciative.       Best,   Kristine Stenzel       -- You are subscribed to the publicly accessible group "FLEx list". Only members can post but anyone can view messages on the website. To change your status, please write to flex_d...@sil.org. You can join this group by going to http://groups.google.com/group/flex-list . --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "FLEx list" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to flex-list+...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to flex...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/flex-list/019701d337ae%24665ceec0%243316cc40%24%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/flex-list/019701d337ae%24665ceec0%243316cc40%24%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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Negation of verbs

Abbie W <dishige...@gmail.com>: Sep 26 06:39PM -0700 In the language I'm working on, verbs (and adjectives) are sometimes two syllables (e.g. AB), and to negate the verb, the word for "not" is put between the two syllables thus "A not B". In the lexicon I have some verbs entered of the AB format, but I don't know how to deal with the "A not B" situation in the interlinearizer. I don't want to enter all instances of "A not B" into the lexicon. Any suggestions of how to deal with this please?

Andy Black <andy_...@sil.org>: Sep 27 09:11AM -0700 On 9/26/2017 6:39 PM, Abbie W wrote:   In the language I'm working on, verbs (and adjectives) are sometimes two syllables (eg AB), and to negate the verb, the word for "not" is put between the two syllables thus "A not B". In the lexicon I have some verbs entered of the AB format, but I don't know how to deal with the "A not B" situation in the interlinearizer. I don't want to enter all instances of "A not B" into the lexicon. Any suggestions of how to deal with this please?   This sounds like the negation is an infix. Take a look at the help entries for "Infix" such as the Infix Example screen shot" and others.   --Andy   --   You are subscribed to the publicly accessible group "FLEx list".   Only members can post but anyone can view messages on the website.   To change your status, please write to flex_d...@sil.org.   You can join this group by going to http://groups.google.com/group/flex-list.   ---   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "FLEx list" group.   To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to flex-list+...@googlegroups.com.   To post to this group, send email to flex...@googlegroups.com.   To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/flex-list/364e7a5c-d6d8-4306-8ab9-bfa06aa9347f%40googlegroups.com.   For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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[Kent Rasmussen]

Hmm… FLEx can export to xlingpaper, so no middle man required. I actually had a set of scripts once that allowed me to edit/check data in XLP, then re-import it to flex.

On 09/27/2017 04:54 PM, kristine Stenzel wrote:

I will look into the XLingPaper program a bit more, but would really prefer not to have to be dependent on a middle-man program in order to transfer and incorporate my analyzed data into my academic work.

--
Kent Rasmussen
SIL Eastern Congo Group Linguistics Consultant / Conseiller en Linguistique de SIL au Congo de l'Est
Orthographies for eastern DRC / Orthographes pour la RDC de l'est
+1-541-357-7276

[Kim Blewett (gm)]

I think what is implied but not clearly stated, Kristine, is that you can use XLingPaper to create your academic work instead of Word. It does a beautiful job, if you take the time to learn it. It has been used to write & publish PhD theses, etc.

Kim Blewett
Language Tech Consultant
Papua New Guinea

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[Kent Rasmussen]

Sorry, I thought Andy had already said that, but yes, that's what I assumed in my comment. I'm currently working on my dissertation in XLP, and it is a MUCH happier a process than my MA thesis, which I did in MS Word.

On 09/27/2017 05:48 PM, Kim Blewett (gm) wrote:
>
> I think what is implied but not clearly stated, Kristine, is that you can use XLingPaper to create your academic work instead of Word. It does a beautiful job, if you take the time to learn it. It has been used to write & publish PhD theses, etc.
>
> Kim Blewett
> Language Tech Consultant
> Papua New Guinea
>

[Andy Black]

On 9/27/2017 2:54 PM, kristine Stenzel wrote:

...

Kevin, in response to your query, I actually work with three fields in Toolbox, a citation form (for dictionary-making purposes), a lexeme form, and an underlying form (both of these for purposes of linguistic analysis). For some morphemes, these all coincide, but often they do not, so I need all three because each has a specific function (for analysis and/or for dictionary making).

One possibility to consider is to add a second vernacular writing system (via Format menu items / Set up writing systems...) that you use for the underlying form.  You then do the following:

In a lexical entry:

1. In the Lexeme Form field: Put the orthographic form in the basic writing system and put the underlying form in the second (new) writing system.
2. In the Citation Form field: Put the citation form in the basic writing system.
3. In your dictionary configuration (via Tools menu item / Configure / Dictionary), you can use the Headword item (in the basic writing system).  This uses what's in the Citation Form field unless that is empty.  Then it uses what is in the Lexeme Form field.
   

In the Interlinear Texts:

1. Open up the  Tools menu item / Configure / Interlinear
2. Add a Lex Entries item that uses the new writing system.
3. Remove the other Lex Entries line.

I think you will now get what you want.

--Andy

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