cawl list please

[Martin Zaske]

Hello,

I have noticed a special field for sil cawl in Flex and a brief inquiry
on the flex download site. There is no mention of cawl in the Flex help
and Google does not find much either (could be me).

I would like to obtain the list, please.

Then I would like to import the list into our existing Flex project
(many entries, many man-hours) without messing it up. I do not expect
any auto-magic merging, so for many basic entries (like goat and house
and moon) we might end up with dual entries.



Background: We are in the process of recruiting partners in Europe to
beef up our online dicco to "more languages" for the benefit of our
local users in Africa (read high-school children with smartphones). We
feel that each partner in Europe will be encouraged, by completing a
manageable list like the cawl, rather than being shell-shocked with our
full database at first contact.

New idea: Possibly the cawl does already exist somewhere with filled
fields for Swedish and Spanish and Italian. If that were the case, we
would also love to obtain those please. And we should (need to) learn
about merging such goodies semi-automagically into our existing main
(vernacular) database. (No, we are not crazy, some of the languages
mentioned above are being taught in schools where we are; and we know
about significant diaspora populations living within other language
environments.)

Thank you for any help about locating/obtaining, and for any help
concerning importing and possibly semi-auto-merging.

Martin

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[Robert Hedinger]

Here is some information

http://www-01.sil.org/silewp/abstract.asp?ref=2006-005

http://www-01.sil.org/silewp/2006/silewp2006-005.pdf

Not sure if this is what you are looking for.

Robert

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[Marlon Hovland]

Martin, I’m sorry, but where in FLEx do you see the field related to CAWL? It is a custom field someone there added? Marlon

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[Steve Elliott]

Martin ~~

We have done considerable (but in-progress) work with CAWL

which we got in ToolBox format.  Robert gave you good links​ . . .

Using the concept for developing COMAL, Comparative Online MesoAmerican List

of most basic 1500+ words, especially for Mayan languages

and Spanish (Guatemala rural 'dialect').

Having external data interact with FLEx is another challenge :)

​

~~ Steve
Stephen R Elliott          

​

srEll...@Gmail.com

La Antigua Guatemala

​

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[Beth Bryson]

Martin, I can't give you a full answer right now, but a couple more related bits of info:

- At one time, there was a FLEx project that had the CAWL list in it, and translations in at least Portuguese and Hausa (or some combination like that). I know that it did not have Swedish.

- I think someone in(?) Africa has that project, or that it is floating around somewhere. I could find the last version I had, but I'm pretty sure that John Doerksen or Heidi Rosendall did more with it after I passed it on.

- In WeSay you can find the CAWL list, as a basis for entering new vernacular words. But I think that doesn't so much tie in to what you are thinking of doing.

We could talk more off-list.

-Beth

[Jeff Shrum]

Beth, and Martin,

I had worked with John Hatton concerning getting the CAWL list into Wesay. I do believe it is still an available option in the configuration. Why not use Wesay with CAWL data entry mode enabled then import the Wesay data base into Flex. By the way, CAWL stands for Central Africa Word List. It was developed in West Africa originally. I was given a Blank Flex database with the CAWL list in it at a training event in Nairobi. I can look for that. I have another one that I have modified. There are differences in common plants and animals between West and East Africa. CAWL was a word list developed for word list comparisons between languages. Each entry has a number so as not to be confused by similar words when doing the comparisons.

Jeff Shrum
Language Technology Consultant
SIL Southern Africa.

-----Original Message-----
From: flex...@googlegroups.com [mailto:flex...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Bryson
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 11:13 AM
To: flex...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [FLEx] cawl list please

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[Rick Nivens]

Thanks, Jeff, I was wondering what the "cawl list" was!

[Robert Hedinger]

Actually, the CAWL is called   "SIL comparative African wordlist (SILCAWL)". See

http://www.sil.org/resources/publications/entry/7882

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[Martin Zaske]

Marlon,

I see this field in Lexicon > Lexicon Edit (show hidden fields) looking under Sense, it is located at the very end of each sense under import residue and called SILCAWL.

I guess, that is where the reference numbers are meant to go....

hth

Martin

[David Rowbory]

I have a CAWL which we use at TCNN (Theological College of Northern Nigeria) as a template for some students doing fieldwork. It utilises (possibly incorrectly) a Source field giving the CAWL number,  English gloss, Hausa gloss (partial and maybe questionable in places) and quite possibly a part of speech. However, I have a suspicion that importing an SFM file might work better, but I haven’t tried this sort of thing recently. The key part will be trying to avoid unnecessary duplicates I guess. It must be said that the CAWL is primarily used here by us to elicit data useful for phonology and as a dictionary development tool it has serious semantic drawbacks.

I’m happy to pass on our template if it will be helpful. I forget where it came from but Matthew Harley seems a likely suspect.

David

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• cawl list please - 6 Updates

cawl list please

Martin Zaske <martin...@sil.org>: Apr 23 10:30AM +0200

Robert Hedinger <hedinge...@gmail.com>: Apr 23 01:50PM +0100

Here is some information http://www-01.sil.org/silewp/abstract.asp?ref=2006-005 http://www-01.sil.org/silewp/2006/silewp2006-005.pdf   Not sure if this is what you are looking for.   Robert

Marlon Hovland <marlon_...@sil.org>: Apr 23 08:30AM -0500

Martin, I’m sorry, but where in FLEx do you see the field related to CAWL? It is a custom field someone there added? Marlon

*From:* flex...@googlegroups.com [mailto:flex...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert Hedinger *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:50 AM *To:* flex...@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [FLEx] cawl list please

Here is some information   http://www-01.sil.org/silewp/abstract.asp?ref=2006-005   http://www-01.sil.org/silewp/2006/silewp2006-005.pdf       Not sure if this is what you are looking for.       Robert

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Steve Elliott <srell...@gmail.com>: Apr 23 08:39AM -0600

Martin ~~ We have done considerable (but in-progress) work with CAWL which we got in ToolBox format. Robert gave you good links​ . . . Using the concept for developing COMAL, Comparative Online MesoAmerican List of most basic 1500+ words, especially for Mayan languages and Spanish (Guatemala rural 'dialect'). Having external data interact with FLEx is another challenge :) ​ ~~ Steve Stephen R Elliott ​   srEll...@Gmail.com La Antigua Guatemala ​   On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Marlon Hovland <marlon_...@sil.org> wrote:

Beth Bryson <beth-doc...@sil.org>: Apr 23 11:12AM -0500

Martin, I can't give you a full answer right now, but a couple more related bits of info:   - At one time, there was a FLEx project that had the CAWL list in it, and translations in at least Portuguese and Hausa (or some combination like that). I know that it did not have Swedish.   - I think someone in(?) Africa has that project, or that it is floating around somewhere. I could find the last version I had, but I'm pretty sure that John Doerksen or Heidi Rosendall did more with it after I passed it on.   - In WeSay you can find the CAWL list, as a basis for entering new vernacular words. But I think that doesn't so much tie in to what you are thinking of doing.   We could talk more off-list.   -Beth   On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:30 AM, Martin Zaske wrote:

Jeff Shrum <jeff_...@sil.org>: Apr 23 11:32AM -0500

Beth, and Martin,   I had worked with John Hatton concerning getting the CAWL list into Wesay. I do believe it is still an available option in the configuration. Why not use Wesay with CAWL data entry mode enabled then import the Wesay data base into Flex. By the way, CAWL stands for Central Africa Word List. It was developed in West Africa originally. I was given a Blank Flex database with the CAWL list in it at a training event in Nairobi. I can look for that. I have another one that I have modified. There are differences in common plants and animals between West and East Africa. CAWL was a word list developed for word list comparisons between languages. Each entry has a number so as not to be confused by similar words when doing the comparisons.   Jeff Shrum Language Technology Consultant SIL Southern Africa.

-----Original Message----- From: flex...@googlegroups.com [mailto:flex...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth Bryson Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 11:13 AM To: flex...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [FLEx] cawl list please

Martin, I can't give you a full answer right now, but a couple more related bits of info:   - At one time, there was a FLEx project that had the CAWL list in it, and translations in at least Portuguese and Hausa (or some combination like that). I know that it did not have Swedish.   - I think someone in(?) Africa has that project, or that it is floating around somewhere. I could find the last version I had, but I'm pretty sure that John Doerksen or Heidi Rosendall did more with it after I passed it on.   - In WeSay you can find the CAWL list, as a basis for entering new vernacular words. But I think that doesn't so much tie in to what you are thinking of doing.   We could talk more off-list.   -Beth   On Apr 23, 2015, at 3:30 AM, Martin Zaske wrote:

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David Rowbory (currently in Nigeria)

Bible Translation Consultant in Training, Nigeria

[Martin Zaske]

Dear list,

thank you all for information and links etc concerning CAWL.

I have obtained a very well done list from Jeff Shrum (thank you very
much), and it opens very nicely in my most recent Flex.

My best idea so far is to...

... export this CAW list project in LIFT format

... open our own project and import this LIFT file

... should then have plenty new entries with blank headwords but
precious CAWL information

... will sort by French glosses and will hopefully find many "related"
items listed underneath each other

... will then manually select the new entries (which carry the CAWL
data, ie the reference number and the Spanish and Hausa etc glosses)

... and will manually trigger a "merge into" for each new entry



We are talking about manually selecting and then merging about 1700 entries.

Anybody has any better ideas or bulk strategies or macros...???

greetings, and thanks so far,

Martin

[Steve Elliott]

We had fun triangulating between English-Spanish glossary

and the English-CAWL# to 'automatically' get the Spanish-CAWL#.

Then again from Spanish-MayaIxil glossary to get MayaIxil-CAWL#.

At least a workable better-than-manual approximation, 

then discarding Africa-only words and adding pan-MesoAmerican.

Now on to even more fun of turning larger ETIC grid into Maya EMICs.

Anyone with experience doing this ~ let's chat about methodology.

​

~~ Steve
Stephen R Elliott

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[Hugh Paterson]

@Steve Elliott,

I am confused why you would delete un-used CAWL entries. I am assuming that the reason one would want them in the first place is to match data from MayaIxil to lexical elements in a grid/dataset which contains lexical items from other CAWL users. In thinking about wide/large distributed data sets, it seems that N/A as a data point connected to a CAWL entry is more appropriate than the absence of a datapoint for a given CAWL entry. With N/A as a datapoint a third party would know that the relationship between the CAWL element and the investigated language was previously considered and deemed to not exist. However, the same assumption can not be made with the simple absence of a datapoint.

- Hugh

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[Steve Elliott]

Interesting, @Hugh Paterson ~~

I quite agree that if our purpose were just to compare Mayan with African basic vocabulary,

we might want to ask whether Maya have words for things that never existed here,

and would want to mark N/A (and not just NULL) on CAWL.

Of course nothing we do 'deletes' anything from the CAWL itself . . .

But we are trying to take the concept & purpose & model of the CAWL. 

CAWL has

​(we understand) ​

been a good tool for AFRICA

​​;

we want COMAL to be a relevant, similar tool across MesoAmerican languages.

​Universal comparative lexicographers could then have data for their purposes.​

(​Turn it about, and wonder if we should then ask African linguists to ​also use COMAL. :)

​​

ETIC grids can be wonderful cross-cultural starting points, but our goal is EMIC

​!

​(Our original interest in CAWL was to associate DDP-4 numbers to basic vocabulary vía English to Spanish to MayaIxil.)

Since these CAWL issues were raised in the FLEx context,

suffice it to say that we would simply not have Mayan entries 

with N/A CAWL fields :)​

​I will, however, add to our online lexical data a separate list of unused CAWL words,

as this will also serve to re-check what's in CAWL but not in COMAL (and vice-versa :)

​Thanks, Hugh,

​

~~ Steve
Stephen R Elliott 

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[Cameron and Valerie Hamm]

Has anyone seen Comparalex.org?  It can be used to collate standard word lists for comparative purposes. 

Cam

 

From: flex...@googlegroups.com [mailto:flex...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Elliott
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 4:34 PM
To: flex...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [FLEx] cawl list please

 

Interesting, @Hugh Paterson ~~

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[Steve Elliott]

Thanks, @Cam ~~

Very interesting CanIL project !
Will be interesting to see how interested they are in non-African data,

and coordination with current Ethnologue :)

​

~~ Steve
Stephen R Elliott

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