RE: [FLEx] a question about Reversals
Kevin Warfel
I have not yet created a reversal index for my FLEx project. I am in the process of cleaning up a very messy database I inherited and was thinking to leave the whole reversal thing for a later date. But I’ve been thinking about this particular question a lot as I’ve worked through the data, so decided to poll the user base to see if FLEx has an easy way to handle it. As a result of the input I’ve received, here’s what I’m planning (but have not tried it to know if it will work or not, since I have not yet created the reversal index):
1) Include the perfectly predictable nominalized form in the database as a variant of the verb from which it is derived.
2) Since I will normally want to include variant data in the entry for the word of which it is a variant (for example,
màrɩ̀ v. [completive : màa] Fr suffir ; Eng be sufficient
where “màa” is an irregularly formed past tense variant of “màrɩ̀”),
I would need to create a special type of variant for this nominalized form that I do not wish to include anywhere in my dictionary, but only in my reversal. I might call it a “Reversal variant” for example.
3) In my Dictionary configuration tool, I would untick this “Reversal variant” so that it does not get included anywhere in my entry.
4) I would either untick the “Show Minor Entry” box for this variant in the entry for the word of which is it a variant or, if the minor entry is required for the reversal to have something to link to, I would untick the “Show Minor Entry” box in the Publication Settings section of the required minor entry. Either of these would prevent the variant from appearing in my dictionary. It remains to be seen exactly which path will allow me to include it in the reversal.
Anyone see anything in this proposed approach that will or might be problematic?
Thank you,
Kevin
From: flex...@googlegroups.com [mailto:flex...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dawut G
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 7:41 AM
To: flex...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [FLEx] Digest for flex...@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic
Can't you set the minor entry to non-published? Then it won't appear in the main dictionary the vernacular-English way round, but should appear in the reversal dictionary.
David
On 23 May 2016 at 21:58, <flex...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
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View all topics· a question about reversals - 1 Update
Kevin Warfel <kevin_...@sil.org>: May 23 10:39AM -0400
I have not worked much with reversal dictionaries yet, so I’m hoping this
will be an easy question to answer for those of you who have experience in
this area.
Summary:
How can I get an English or French word to appear as a headword (or
whatever the correct term is) in my reversal dictionary without its
vernacular equivalent being according status of a headword or minor entry
in my main dictionary? For example, how can I get this entry in my English
reversal
wish n cààlʋ
without having any kind of entry for cààlʋ in the main dictionary, since
it’s a regular, predictable derived form in the language? (The verb cà
‘want’ is a headword in the main dictionary.)
Details:
In Phuien [pug], a Gur language of West Africa, nominalization of verbs is
a very productive process in the language. For just about every verb I’ve
encountered, a suffix can be added that will result in a noun that means
something like “the action associated with X”. In English we do roughly the
same thing via the gerund. Unfortunately, in English the gerund has the
same form as the progressive form of the verb, so the linguistically naïve
native speaker often confuses the two. In case-marking languages, such as
Latin, the forms are more easily distinguished.
Here are a couple of examples from English of verbs and their gerund forms,
with an example sentence for the latter:
run running Running takes energy.
walk walking Walking is good exercise.
Nominalized verbs in Phuien are often translated in English by either the
gerund or by the phrase “the act of X.” The nominalized verb forms are so
regular, so predictable, that I am reluctant to include them even as minor
entries in the Phuien-French-English dictionary I am working on. Any votes
for or against my thinking on this?
However, there are certain nominalized verbs that correlate semantically to
specific English (or French) nouns. Here are some examples:
want wish (n)
steal theft
think thought (n)
So here’s my question:
When the phuien verb (e.g., the one for “want”) can be nominalized by the
normal, predictable, very productive process of adding a nominalizing
suffix to it, but the result has an equivalent in the analysis language
that is an “independent” lexical entry, how do I exclude the phuien
nominalized form from the phuien dictionary, but include the independent
word in the analysis language in the reversal? That is, how do I get a
reversal entry like this:
wish n cààlʋ
while avoiding a (minor) entry in my main dictionary like this:
cààlʋ nom. of cà?
I would not want reversal entries for all nominalized verb forms because
many of them do not have a one-word equivalent other than the gerund in
English, so I don’t think the reversal entry would be of any use to an
English speaker searching for a way to express something in Phuien, since
the entry for the verb will be right there and knowledge of the grammar
leads directly to the required form.
run v cʋa
*running n cʋaàlʋ
Thanks for any help or insights from you who are more experienced than I!
Kevin
Kevin Warfel
Associate Dictionary and Lexicography Services Coordinator
a.k.a. Dictionary Development Coordinator
SIL International
Current technology makes it possible to provide those translating into just
about any language with both a dictionary and a thesaurus in the target
language, the standard tools of the trade for professional translators, so
why are mother-tongue translators in minority languages still expected to
do their work without these tools? Ask me about *Rapid Word Collection*
after reading about it at rapidwords.net <http://www.rapidwords.net/>.
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