TWT Update

[Dustin Kasel]

Felix, can you send out your update for this week? I thought we agreed you would update us on Mondays.

[Joshua Pritt]

I'd like to see a picture or two if possible showing something neat that's new or added/changed that you guys are working on too.

I really like seeing those videos of it moving around too!

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Dustin Kasel <dusti...@gmail.com> wrote:

Felix, can you send out your update for this week? I thought we agreed you would update us on Mondays.

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[felix....@gmail.com]

This week we are working on assembling the calibration kits - we have most of everything in and can hopefully begin shipping them out by the end of the week.

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 6:39 AM, Dustin Kasel <dusti...@gmail.com> wrote:

Felix, can you send out your update for this week? I thought we agreed you would update us on Mondays.

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[Dustin Kasel]

Have you resolved the calibration issues you mentioned last week? Namely, the magnet hold variation, camera resolution, and ball cup friction? In addition, I'd like a response regarding TWT's plan for supplying the beta group with SMT feeders. I asked a question on last week's update thread but never received a response.

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[felix....@gmail.com]

Hi Dustin,

The parts that I mentioned in that post have not been solved. They are open issues that I think the FirePick community should begin exploring ways to collaborate on. In regards to the feeder trays, we do not plan on sending out feed trays because we found the current design lacking.

-fb

[Alan]

I've always felt rather ripped of about the feeder trays. I questioned Felix about this 6 month's ago and got a similar response, but I did request Felix told the group!

The text copied from the site for the beta kit, and even the picture had them in.

"We're still working feverishly on a decent SMT component feeder design.  We'll include something to get you up and running (e.g. a simple cut-tape strip feeder).  Once the final SMT component feeder design is complete, you may 3D print out a working feeder using the 3D printer functionality of this kit."

We don't get anything because the design was lacking and we can't print anything because that functionality has also been put on the back burner...

But trying not to be negative... meditate ... How can we help?

[felix....@gmail.com]

I appreciate the offer to help Alan...

There are tons of facets to this project and the preliminary designs for the strip cut feeders were not printing out well. It seems like there are a few enthusiastic members that are very interested in this feature and I'd like to see if they could advance the design. I believe the designs are already out in the community for peer review so it would be easy for some members to begin working on a better design.

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[Dustin Kasel]

Felix, there's two separate issues. One is to come up with a feeder design that works. The second is for you to fulfill the feeder portion of the kits. The concern I have is you are shrugging your shoulders regarding your obligation to us. So when a working feeder is developed will you then build a bunch and send them out for free?

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[Rich Obermeyer]

Hi Felix,

Can you point us to these feeder designs out in the community to which you refer?

I know there are a few folks out here just waiting for you to ask for help.

Knowing where these designs are can get us all started faster.

[phon...@gmail.com]

How many feeder you need and
are you willing to pay it inkl shipment from EU. I have just received 200 spools and mechanics for
Collecting cover tapes.
I don't need all and probably I can give off limited count, but don't think there are so many beta kits out price is 5 Euro each.

[Douglas Pearless]

Could you post a picture of these?

[phon...@gmail.com]

The next time i assemble it i male some photos. Nothing special.
I use cots devices for cover tape and on that I need to glue only one plastic gear with 4mm pitch and I use tchebycheff mechanism to transform linear movement from pull solenoid to rotational movement . as the solenoid costs 1. Euro I prefer that but push type rod works too. The cost is only for making at least at least 120 feeder, otherwise the cost increase., not

[Felix Banuchi]

Hi Rich,

I think this is a good idea. I am working with my team to get these published shortly.  More to follow...

-fb

[Rich Obermeyer]

@Felix, I must have misunderstood.  You said "I believe the designs are already out in the community for peer review".  I took that to mean they were already out someplace on the web that could be downloaded.  Possibly in Cubify.

Either way, the sooner you open them up the better.  With no feeders, PNP is not going to go very far.  Taping parts to the bed is just not that exciting.

IMHO

Rich

[Felix Banuchi]

I looked for them, but couldn't find them on Github and so I'm working with my team to get them posted asap.  More to follow.

-fb

[Felix Banuchi]

As promised here are the STL files for the 3d printed feeders...

[Felix Banuchi]

I've also included some laser cut acrylic strip cut feeders that we designed in China as well...

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Felix Banuchi <felix....@gmail.com> wrote:

As promised, here are the strip cut feeders and drop pin designs we had from before.  I've included STLs and DXF files.

-fb

[Dustin Kasel]

Felix, what can we expect to get for accuracy after running the calibration routine? Am I reading your update correctly that the best you got with calibration was 0.5mm? How much did you improve this with machined parts?

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[Karl]

Dustin, with firenodejs, we are seeing FPD precision better than 100 microns, especially with LPP. Since the TW machining affected only accuracy, this is fairly significant. Precision relates to joints and accuracy relates to dimensions. TW's machining of FPD did not address the ball joint issue. In fact Reef was the one who recently directed us to a simple test that demonstrates the ball joint's role in precision issues. The TW metal machine uses ball joints just like ours. I'm guessing that if Felix runs firenodejs on his metal machine, he will get better than 0.5mm precision with LPP.  The newer joints being investigated by the group will probably improve precision even more.

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[Dustin Kasel]

Ok I was trying to determine what the value of the calibration kit is at this point. Is it needed at all?

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[Karl]

I also got a calibration kit and the truly fascinating gold in that kit for me is the calibration board.

Now THAT is a ruler to calibrate to. Although firenodejs can calibrate to a printed grid, you will

have noticed that personal printers are kinda in the +/- 10% very sloppy range. My own 5mm grid

measures 5.33 mm on average. So I would hold onto that calibration board!

The laser cut measuring tool does not work with LooseCanon machines, but it is remarkably simple

for arm leveling. Probably simpler than dental floss.

[felix....@gmail.com]

One of the key areas we found challenging with the machine was how to set the arms at precisely 90 degrees prior to calibrating it properly. Will (from the team) made an improvement to the ones we actually used in China by adding the rastered line to help gauge it properly. I can't emphasize how important it is to have this 90 degree calibration done properly and I'm not sure even our metal machine did a great job of ensuring that we could align these arms perfectly at 90 degrees in a stupid-proof manner. It's definitely one area of improvement that should be explored.

[Karl]

My back of the envelope calculations reveal that camera based ranging software is capable of 100 micron accuracy or better at 10-20mm from the bed.  It may be possible to reapply the Z-Probe ZBE elimination algorithm to optically generated data for leveling the arms and eliminating ZBE

[Anthony Webb]

Karl, would firenodejs be able (or tweaked to be able) to create similar analysis of machines other than the FPD?  I would be curious how the accuracy/precision of other delta machines compare to the numbers that we are seeing.  Heck, I'd even like to look at the results of some of my other cartesian machines to see how they fair on a torture test like this.

You think this is possible or is firenodejs pretty specific to FPD only?  Perhaps our delta is already far better off than some of the competitor counterparts?  Would be nice to gather some benchmarks with the same methods of analysis.

[Karl]

Anthony, I do admit to having a FireStep bias. :D

However, firenodejs is a facade, which means it can be the front of many different devices.

For example, you could create a GCODE service patterned along the firestep service.

Given that, yes, you could calc cartesian accuracy.

Probably the easiest way to make that happen would be to create a FireStep adapter in Javascript

for GCODE. The firenodejs code just uses a few FireStep commands: mov, movr, hom, etc.