More Promotion of IRV

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William Waugh

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Jun 12, 2016, 1:01:07 AM6/12/16
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I made some response, but if more Score advocates pile on, it might help get the attention of the one or two of the naïve. Of course, some will be thick-headed and will never be reached.

Toby Pereira

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Jun 12, 2016, 5:46:42 AM6/12/16
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As an aside, I hate that it's taken on this name "Ranked Choice Voting". That name could equally apply to Condorcet, Borda etc.

Toby Pereira

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Jun 12, 2016, 6:42:57 AM6/12/16
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I also don't like that "Proportional Approval Voting" is used as a name for a specific method. It's far too generic a description to be a name for a specific method.

Brian Olson

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Jun 12, 2016, 7:49:51 AM6/12/16
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"Ranked Choice Voting" is indeed a BS attempt to steal the generic term, confuse the issue and make it seems as if there's only one form of it. There's a lot of intellectual dishonesty in IRV advocacy. (Mostly I blame fairvote)

I've taken to talking about "rankings or ratings ballots", specifically talking about the ballot 'front end', implying and often explicitly noting that there are multiple ways of handling the ballot-counting 'back end'.

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William Waugh

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Jun 12, 2016, 2:05:15 PM6/12/16
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Yes, I said something about that in the thread.

William Waugh

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Jun 12, 2016, 2:05:54 PM6/12/16
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Permission to quote you by name on this on Facebook?

William Waugh

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Jun 12, 2016, 2:26:56 PM6/12/16
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Here is some more detail about the thread I refer to.

The lead statement is by representatives of Jill Stein. It says:

The media is catching on that Ranked Choice Voting is a common-sense solution to our broken voting system.

Unquote. Then it cites an article on Time Magazine that does not accept comments. http://time.com/4352797/ranked-choice-voting-maine-donald-trump/

Since the post by Stein or her representatives mentions "common-sense" as an adjective, I key on that in the response I wrote:

Common sense may be right 80% of the time. Voting math is, unfortunately, very counterintuitive. IRV does not solve the problems of choose-one Plurality. IRV proponents cannot prove that IRV accords the voters equal power over the electoral outcome regardless of how many candidates the voters support or oppose. Moreover, as shown under the heading "Shattered" in http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/ , IRV responds erratically to small movements in the center of public opinion. Score Voting solves all these problems and would establish representative democracy for single-winner elections. Multiwinner elections are harder to argue about, but I think a pretty good proposal for them would be proxy assignment.

Unquote me.

Another writer said "This country needs IRV. Instant runoff voting."

Stein staffers responded, "Ranked choice voting is the same as instant runoff voting, we just find people understand "ranked choice" more quickly because runoff elections are rare in the US. RCV is best for single-winner races, and we also need proportional representation for our legislatures."

I responded, "Jill Stein, there are ranking systems other than IRV.".

Now I see that Clay Shentrup has chimed in in that subthread. Thank you, Clay Shentrup. Here is a broad paste of what shows for Clay's contribution to that specific subthread; this paste might not include good copies of the links Clay cited.

Clay Sh Jill Stein No, there are a multitude of ranked voting methods, IRV being generally the worst of them. Condorcet and Borda are better. Simpler and better still are rated (not ranked) methods, i.e. Score Voting and Approval Voting. Please read "Gaming the Vote".
LikeReply712 hrs

Toby Pereira

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Jun 13, 2016, 5:06:14 AM6/13/16
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I'm not sure I'd agree that the Borda count is better, but generally this is good work.
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