IRV Advocate Accuses IRV of Not Helping Against 2PD

[William Waugh]

Over in the "Voting System Options" discussion forum on this site, one David Wetzell says in the middle of a comment, "RCV single-winner doesn't try to end the tendency for there to be a 2-party dominated system, ...."

I said that that was shocking and asked whether all IRV advocates joined in that admission. The forum in question is frequented by Rob Ritchie, and as yet, he hasn't responded to my question, nor has anyone else other than Wetzell, who says he doesn't know.

Wetzell mentioned some "those at the top" and "their organizations stated objectives". I asked whether those objectives included the defeat of two-party dominance (2PD) for the single-winner case. Again, no one has replied that that's among the stated objectives.

[NoIRV]

Did we not suspect UnfairVote of being a primarily leftist organization?

I have seen some things on the UnfairVote website about how third parties should push for IRV but I do not know how much of that is (a) "help me kill you", (b) actually pushing for multi winner STV which may not lead to 2PD, and (c) actual ignorance of how IRV causes 2-party domination.

[Clay Shentrup]

Rob Richie

[Clay Shentrup]

I wish I could focus all the energy that gets you into these conversations into local initiatives to get cardinal voting methods. IRV is a distraction.

[NoIRV]

On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 1:59:10 AM UTC-4, Clay Shentrup wrote:
> I wish I could focus all the energy that gets you into these conversations into local initiatives to get cardinal voting methods. IRV is a distraction.

http://www.fairvote.org/e_j_dionne_we_can_fix_our_broken_politics

Oh wait, that was Rich Robinson, not Rob Richie. Wow.
Still, pure propaganda.

I still want to know which of vanilla Score, Score with NoOpinion+Soft Quorum, STAR, and 321 would be the best option to contact my federal and state legislators about trying to pass laws for.

[Ciaran Dougherty]

While I have strong opinions on which of those would be best for society, the fact of the matter is that virtually no politician with any significant position is going to support any change from the voting method that selected them for office, let alone one that could drastically change the election scenarios. At least, not until the conclusion is foregone.

That is why a PropagandaName pushes initiatives, and why those initiatives face such enormous push back by legislators.

If you like one of those options, make it happen. Start locally, such as at the city or county level, and make progress from there.

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[Steve Cobb]

Alternative voting methods could be pitched to the major parties to improve their primaries. I haven't seen that attempted in the GOP.

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 12:23:31 AM UTC+2, Ciaran Dougherty wrote:

While I have strong opinions on which of those would be best for society, the fact of the matter is that virtually no politician with any significant position is going to support any change from the voting method that selected them for office, let alone one that could drastically change the election scenarios. At least, not until the conclusion is foregone.

That is why a PropagandaName pushes initiatives, and why those initiatives face such enormous push back by legislators.

If you like one of those options, make it happen. Start locally, such as at the city or county level, and make progress from there.

[Brian Olson]

They were founded after the 2000 US Presidential election to fix the Gore-Bush-Nader problem and fix it for Gore. IRV would do that. "Better than IRV" is an annoying irrelevant distraction to them.

[Clay Shentrup]

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 5:19:53 AM UTC-7, Steve Cobb wrote:

Alternative voting methods could be pitched to the major parties to improve their primaries. I haven't seen that attempted in the GOP.

I suspect they'll see it in action now that it's in effect in the Maine primary.