Center for Election Science Forum format

[Felix Sargent]

Hi Everyone,

I'm investigating whether CES would like to use a new format for discussions other than Google Groups. 

While I like Google Groups, I think the interface can be intimidating and the mailing list very spammy. 

I've set up a Discourse forum as a test, and I'd like your thoughts on the design. 

>> https://forum.electionscience.org

I believe the new forum will be beneficial for a few reasons:

• Better user experience means it's easier to get volunteers to register and participate
• Categories allow us to segment the theory debates from the advocacy and outreach side
• Doesn't primarily exist via e-mail, clogging up our mailboxes

Also, this is another good time for an announcement that we now own https://electionscience.org - Hurray! A little easier to say than electology.org. All links will still work, we've just got a redirect going for now. 

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[Brian Olson]

It needs to integrate into something I'm already using. I don't want to add another website to manually check.

I talk in groups on facebook. I talk in email lists because I check email all the time. A web forum works okay for tech support but I wouldn't go there for random ongoing discussion.

I wish we had ye olde NNTP servers and I could add it to my client for that.

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[Felix Sargent]

I'll say it does integrate with e-mail really well. It just isn't so entirely dependent on it.

What facebook groups are you on?

Felix Sargent

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[William Waugh]

With respect to e-mail, I'm quite sure that this Google Groups lets you unsubscribe from the e-mail while remaining a member of the forum if you want to. Then you can come back on the web and it lets you know what is new. Or for those who wish to receive e-mail, they can. Many of us no doubt use mailers that can have filters set, as well.

With respect to categories, I don't know whether the new forum that the CES officers already put up (they asked us to leave this and go there, and essentially no one complied) solves that. If I remember right, it may have categories set by the admins only.

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:35:56 PM UTC-4, Felix Sargent started the conversation at  https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/electionscience/1-l6nBwXWps

[William Waugh]

Someone mentioned Facebook in this conversation. Some people cannot stomach Facebook (I use it carefully), and in my opinion, we should not try to force them to stomach it. Facebook is probably one of the worst when it comes to abuse of customer data. I never allow an "app" nor a "game" to run on a Facebook account that has friends. I never use a Facebook account that has friends to comment on a web site other than Facebook that has Facebook comments enabled. Allowing web sites, apps, and games any connection to a given account on Facebook permits those apps, games, and web sites to abuse the friend list of that account. Such apps, games, and web sites can send spam to your friends and make it look as though it is coming from you. Facebook should be used cautiously or not at all. People who don't want to navigate the necessary cautions should not be forced nor incented to use it.

[William Waugh]

Also, I never send the same browser to both Facebook and non-Facebook sites. By "browser" I don't mean browser type, such as Chrome vs. Mozilla; I mean individual browser that has a remembered state with cookies etc. I don't let non-Facebook sites see my Facebook cookies and I don't let Facebook see my non-Facebook cookies.

[Felix Sargent]

I abhore facebook also, though in the interests of being a board member of CES I want to know where conversations are happening, and identify new ways to bring people into the movement.

William, referring to the "new forum" do you mean the drupal forum on electology.org or what I've made: https://forum.electology.org ?

How do you feel about categories?

Felix Sargent

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 11:16 AM William Waugh <2knuw...@snkmail.com> wrote:

Someone mentioned Facebook in this conversation. Some people cannot stomach Facebook (I use it carefully), and in my opinion, we should not try to force them to stomach it. Facebook is probably one of the worst when it comes to abuse of customer data. I never allow an "app" nor a "game" to run on a Facebook account that has friends. I never use a Facebook account that has friends to comment on a web site other than Facebook that has Facebook comments enabled. Allowing web sites, apps, and games any connection to a given account on Facebook permits those apps, games, and web sites to abuse the friend list of that account. Such apps, games, and web sites can send spam to your friends and make it look as though it is coming from you. Facebook should be used cautiously or not at all. People who don't want to navigate the necessary cautions should not be forced nor incented to use it.

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:35:56 PM UTC-4, Felix Sargent started the conversation at  https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/electionscience/1-l6nBwXWps

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[Sara Wolf]

I'm all for getting off Google groups!

Loomio is a great open sourced platform with good layout and threads with the ability to comment by point and all that. It integrates fine with email for people who are happy to never leave their inbox.  

Slack isn't great, especially if you don't want notifications on. 

 

[Felix Sargent]

Cool! I'm glad. What do you think of forum.electionscience.org as the alternative?

Loomio looks great for decision-making kind of like Kialo, which is a system for structured debate, but not really a great communications platform such as a forum. Does equal.vote already have something like that setup?

Felix Sargent

[William Waugh]

I was referring to whichever of those was mentioned earlier in this forum.

Yes, I think categories can help.

I doubt whether anyone else will move unless Warren Smith does.

As for traffic on Facebook, the groups (and one "page") I notice as relevant to this topic are:

Approval Voting

Enact Approval Voting

Duverger's Law

Solutions for America Now

Balanced Ballot International

Choice of Representation

Americans for Ranked Choice Voting

[Toby Pereira]

I also think that Facebook is only good for here-today-gone-tomorrow discussion. With this Google Group, it's quite easy to scroll down through old discussions to find what you want from the archive. Facebook is awful for that.

[Brian Olson]

Another popular form technology: Reddit

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[Sara Wolf]

Loomio is good for forums. Point by point replies. Ability to "like" comments with a variety of emoji like thumbs up, etc.. Really clear format that shows you new messages and makes them easy to find, as well as helping find recent threads and get caught up. 

[fe...@electology.org]

Discussion wasn't so much which forum software we should use but instead for people to weigh in on the new forum located at forum.electionscience.org

The Google group will be wound down gradually as it's a poor place for new advocates to join in.