Confirm if interested -- RE: Macintosh version -- RE: [eiffel-users] Binary Mac download for EiffelStudio?
Bertrand Meyer
We are ready to start with an effort related to the goals listed below. Before I start putting together the project, I am checking that I am not missing anyone. Many people commented in the discussion that followed my message, but it was not always clear whether they actually wanted to be involved in the project.
If you did not receive a personal message from me in the past few minutes BUT want to participate in the project, please send me an email so that I can include you.
Thanks,
-- Bertrand Meyer
From: Bertrand Meyer [mailto:Bertran...@inf.ethz.ch]
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 23:10
To: eiffel...@googlegroups.com
Cc: kwa...@mail.ru; me...@inf.ethz.ch
Subject: Macintosh version -- RE: [eiffel-users] Binary Mac download for EiffelStudio?
The Mac issue is indeed serious; as Thomas writes, the platform is growing in importance and it is a shame that EiffelStudio does not install “straight out of the box”.
The issue come not from EiffelStudio itself but from GTK. So there are two possible strategies:
1. Build a professional-quality GTK installation procedure for the Mac (even though it’s not an Eiffel-community product, it is critical for EiffelStudio as currently set up).
2. Build a native Macintosh EiffelVision handle (i.e. offer a true Mac look-and-feel rather than a Unixy GUI).
Either way it would be great to do this as a community effort since Eiffel Software is more effective focusing its work on the core technology. We would support the effort extensively of course.
Solution 1 can be criticized as a kludge but it would remove the eyesore (or the thorn in our side, whichever anatomical part you prefer for the metaphor).
Solution 2 has been debated many times in the past and there have been a number of efforts, in particular one at ETH which got “almost there” and should clearly serve as the starting point.
We are interested in knowing whether anyone is seriously interested in participating in such an effort or better yet leading it. If you are, you can write to me directly and I will share with others involved.
-- Bertrand Meyer
From: eiffel...@googlegroups.com [mailto:eiffel...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Beale
Sent: Friday, 03 March, 2017 15:55
To: Eiffel Users <eiffel...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: kwa...@mail.ru
Subject: Re: [eiffel-users] Binary Mac download for EiffelStudio?
Alexander,
thanks, but it didn't help. This is the message I got back from my colleague:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> I had tried these steps as well but they all failed and gave very little information as to why. I give up. Sublime will have to do. Getting pretty good at navigating sublime Eiffel code :) Too bad they simply don't just develop a dmg file or a package file for MacOS.
He's a very experienced developer, not a newbie, It's not a great situation given that the majority of devs I see these days use Macs.
- thomas
On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 6:26:34 PM UTC, Alexander Kogtenkov wrote:
There is some progress simplifying installation of EiffelStudio on Mac, but for the time being I'd suggest two links that explain what to do:
1. Recommended instructions: https://www.eiffel.org/doc/eiffelstudio/Mac%20OS%20X
2. Advanced instructions with more options: https://dev.eiffel.com/EiffelOnMac
And there is binary installation for Mac (e.g., it can be downloaded from https://sourceforge.net/projects/eiffelstudio/files/), but it is not automatic and is described in item 2 above.
Hope this helps,
Alexander KogtenkovThomas Beale <wolan...@gmail.com>:
I pointed a colleague to the usual place (eiffel.org/downloads) to obtain a Mac version of EiffelStudio. I had thought all the installers there were binary, like the Windows one. He tells me the Mac one has to be built form source on his machine, and that it doesn't work. Is this how Mac users of EiffelStudio usually have to install Eiffel?
- thomas
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Hubert Cater
Thomas Beale
- making the UI of an app on a Mac 'native' look and feel isn't the main problem, so there is no problem in principle using GTK, at least in the short term
- BUT... an EV2 application built using GTK for the Mac must work properly. We noticed over the years various minor weird things like sizing of some components and (IIRC) soe strange scrolling behaviour, and Peter Gummer had to introduce some source hacks (custom variants of some EV classes) to get around these problems. They are not numerous, and are definitely surmountable, and our application (which uses docking, quite a lot of EV_GRID tricks and so on) now looks almost decent on a Mac, and is certainly usable.
- if you go the route of fixing the GTK installer, I would suggest only do this if it can be made to work in a bullet-proof simple way for a non-IT person (i.e. the kind of person who says, when you ask 'are you running Yosemite?', 'No I thought I'd go to Yellowstone this year'). If it's not possible to do this, then the problem isn't really solved.
- if you go the route of a native binding for EV2, I'd be interested to see a work estimate (elapsed time and duration). If it looks like 2y to deliver, I think then we need to think about a _new_ EV2, with a lot more capability, as I have alluded to before (I have 40+ classes layer on top of EV2 just to get simple useful controls like directory chooser).
