Auditory Recording and Onset timing

[meg.andrejczuk]

Hi all!

If I want to record the timing of the onset of a vocalization but I
also want an auditory recording of the verbal response is there any
combination of e-prime software/hardware that can do this? In looking
over the response box features, I found that it will time the onset of
a vocalization but seems like you need a seperate recording system to
capture the actual verbatim response. Can you pair the e-prime
software and the response box in anyway to capture both at the same
time?

I hope this makes sense :)

Thanks!

[David McFarlane]

First, you will need EP2 to record audio at all. Next, what if you
used any ordinary stim/response object to wait for and capture the
onset of vocalization via, e.g., a SRBox, and follow that with a
SoundIn object that will then record the remainder of the
response? You might even split a single microphone between the SRBox
(for vocalization onset) and the mic input of the computer sound card
(for recording SoundIn). I will be interested to learn how this works out.

-- David McFarlane, Professional Faultfinder

[Megan Andrejczuk]

Hi all!

 

I have another question which I am hoping you can help me with. I am trying to Configure the Serial Response Box in E-Prime, I have downloaded the utilities format and have tried running it in e-prime however, I keep recieving a run-time error which is as follows

 

This is what the run time errors says

 Run-time Error (Line 1541) 11041: ImageDisplay Internal Error has occurred Marker: 2000

 In Line 1

c.SetAttrib "RefreshTime", Format$(1/(c.GetAttrib ("Display.RefreshRate"))*1000, "##.##")

/*
Dim dblRefreshTime As Double
dblRefreshTime = 1/(c.GetAttrib ("Display.RefreshRate"))*1000

c.SetAttrib "RefreshTime", Format$(dblRefreshTime, "##.##")
*/ 

Script

 

 Menu.Guid = "{52C406B8-5D1F-4B60-A564-CF7F7A1FE513}"
 Menu.Tag = ""

 Set MenuEchoClients = New EchoClientCollection

 Menu.LoadProperties

 Set Hello = New Slide
 Hello.Name = "Hello"
 Hello.Guid = "{C3C963DE-3E11-42D4-B9BA-6A3165479C5A}"
 Hello.Tag = ""

 Set HelloEchoClients = New EchoClientCollection

 Hello.LoadProperties

I have tried changing the displat but not much seems to be working. I know the box works because the lights are lit and it has been used previously. I tried emailing pstnet support and have heard nothing. I am beyond frustrated! Any thoughts or suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

 

Megan

[Sylvain]

Hello,

I'm trying to do the same thing with EP2 and a Slide with:

- a Slidetext sub-object disappearing at the vocal answer of the participant. The microphone for this one is plugged to the SRSBox.

- a SlideSoundIn sub-object recording 1000 of the answer from the onset of the slide. The microphone for this one is plugged to the computer.

I tried that on two different computers: on the first one I had almost the same RT recorded by the SRSBox and after processing of the wav file to check for onset. On the second on the RT recorded by the SRSBox is 50-100 ms too early compared to the signal I know that it's better to check every wav file (that's what I'm going to do), but such a delay make me wonder if  both objects of the slide are starting at the same time on the second computer. Or if there wouldn't be a kind a "wake up" time for the SlideSoundIn?

Sylvain

[David McFarlane]

Sylvain,

I don't know that anyone has explored sound recording latency before,
so thanks for doing that and posting your observation. I wonder if
this is a limitation of E-Prime in particular, or a limitation of
computer sound recording in general? If the latter, it will dash the
hopes of people who want to measure RT directly by sound recording
(e.g., https://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/1kiOTrj3huk ).

Please ask PST Web Support about this at
http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp , and post back
here with their response. And I will bring this up with the PsychoPy
folks (in fact, I have been asked to explore this very issue with one
of their top developers this week).

-- David McFarlane

[David McFarlane]

Relevant to this issue: http://docs.psychtoolbox.org/InitializePsychSound .

-- David McFarlane

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[Stuart Quirk]

Thanks David for the many helpful posts I have read from you and others on this group. Very kind of you and others to lend your expertise!

I have a question related to this topic--

I have separate mics for SRBOX (for RT data collection) and for line in recording of actual answers (for offline accuracy coding).

My question is: Is there a way to set up my trials so that the RT trigger ends the trial *after* a delay (long enough to capture the vocal answers)?

That is, ending the trial after the vocal trigger would obviously stop the inline recording as well.

I have currently fixed the duration of each trial and simply log the RT.

This works fine but if I could link trial length to RT (plus 300msec or so) I could shave a lot of time off my overall study.

thanks!

Stuart Quirk

[David McFarlane]

Stuart,

First, to update this thread a little, various sites (including PST)
have tried to split one microphone for use for both RT and recording,
and have not gotten this to work adequately. So as you have done, it
is still best to use two separate microphones, one for RT voice key,
and another for voice recording.

Now, just a couple of thoughts offhand, I have not tested this (I
will leave that to you :) ) ...

First, are you sure that ending the trial after the vocal trigger
also stops the sound recording? Back when I tested sound recording
(using EP2.0.8.90), I found that sound recordings always went on for
the full duration of Buffer Size, regardless of anything else that
happened. Did I miss something? If you find different behavior,
perhaps you could make a minimal example program and send that to me
(off the list).

Even so, I imagine that you still want E-Prime to hold up for a set
time after each vocal RT and then move on. In that case, and
assuming that recording does continue after termination of the Slide
or SoundIn object, what about just using a Wait object after your
stimulus object. E.g.,

- TrialProc
- FixText
- StimSlide ' includes SlideSoundIn for recording, and terminates
' upon vocal RT
- RecordingWait ' extra time to wait after StimSlide terminates
- TrialEndText

-----
David McFarlane
E-Prime training
online: http://psychology.msu.edu/Workshops_Courses/eprime.aspx
Twitter: @EPrimeMaster (https://twitter.com/EPrimeMaster)

/----
Stock reminder: 1) I do not work for PST. 2) You may reach PST's
trained staff (and other support facilities) at
https://support.pstnet.com . 3) If you do get an answer from PST
staff, please extend the courtesy of posting their reply back here
for the sake of others.
\----

At 9/4/2014 10:31 AM Thursday, Stuart Quirk wrote:
>Thanks David for the many helpful posts I have read from you and
>others on this group. Very kind of you and others to lend your expertise!
>
>I have a question related to this topic--
>I have separate mics for SRBOX (for RT data collection) and for line
>in recording of actual answers (for offline accuracy coding).
>
>My question is: Is there a way to set up my trials so that the RT
>trigger ends the trial *after* a delay (long enough to capture the
>vocal answers)?
>That is, ending the trial after the vocal trigger would obviously
>stop the inline recording as well.
>I have currently fixed the duration of each trial and simply log the RT.
>This works fine but if I could link trial length to RT (plus 300msec
>or so) I could shave a lot of time off my overall study.
>
>thanks!
>Stuart Quirk
>
>On Monday, March 4, 2013 4:32:04 PM UTC-5, McFarlane, David wrote:
>Relevant to this
>issue:

><http://docs.psychtoolbox.org/InitializePsychSound>http://docs.psychtoolbox.org/InitializePsychSound

>.
>
>-- David McFarlane
>
>
>At 3/4/2013 02:31 PM Monday, David McFarlane wrote:
> >Sylvain,
> >
> >I don't know that anyone has explored sound recording latency
> >before, so thanks for doing that and posting your observation. I
> >wonder if this is a limitation of E-Prime in particular, or a
> >limitation of computer sound recording in general? If the latter,
> >it will dash the hopes of people who want to measure RT directly by
> >sound recording (e.g.,

> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/1kiOTrj3huk>https://groups.google.com/d/topic/e-prime/1kiOTrj3huk

> ).
> >
> >Please ask PST Web Support about this at

> ><http://support.pstnet.com/e%2Dprime/support/login.asp>http://suppo

[Stuart Quirk]

Thanks David,

After playing around some more I think I have to stick with a fixed time for trial display and buffer.

One problem is that people vary a fair bit in how long they take to answer each trial so setting the 

soundin  for x amount of fixed buffer time gets problematic when a trial finishes and the next one

starts before the buffer time is completed. It seems that, in this case, the 'extra' time is a problem for 

starting the next trial-- e.g., I set the buffer to 3500msec, the vocal answer at 1500msec works to trigger

the end of the trial, a 1000msec 'get ready' object follows but there is still a second left in the buffer as the

next trial begins. So to set the buffer time at any specified value seems to set the required duration of the 

trial so I'll probably just stick with being consistent.

I hoped I could have the soundin continue via some 'infinite' duration until the termination trigger setting plus 300msec or 

something similar so the vocal trigger gives me logged reaction time and the verbal answer is also captured but 

I don't think I can have a flexible recording buffer time + a set time window post termination of the object.

I played a bit before giving up and it seemed that soundin recording terminated at the end of a trial even if

the buffer was set to have extra time (an effect I found with just adding the soundin to the standard/provided 

RTime sample experiment).

thanks again!

Stuart