Table saw (in its own thread)

[Nabil Hanke]

As you may already be aware, the table saw is currently inoperable.

Tim did lead the charge in cracking it open to assess the cause. It appears to be a spun bearing on the tail of the motor. It is proving to be a bear to remove. I will make a speciality tool number 8-1/2 to help press it off tonight.

I hope to have it operable this weekend.

Thank you,
Nabíl

[Chris Johnson]

Excellent work!  And just to frustrate Don......lets discuss Spider Monkeys while we talk Table Saws!  <BEG>

Digger

[Tim-S]

I'll try and stop by. At the very least, I'll tidy up the pieces of saw. Most small bits, screws, etc are organized on the back work table (with the radial arm saw).

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 12:51:17 PM UTC-5, Nabil Hanke wrote:

[Nabil Hanke]

I put what I knew went to it in a small clear box. No guarantee its all there tho b

Thank you,

Nabíl

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[Tim-S]

Cool. Since I took it apart I'll try and make sure everything is there and in one spot.

[Don Cady]

Grrrr  Don frustrated
:)

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[Nabil Hanke]

So I just gandered at the side of the bearing - its a 6200Z, which appears to be commonly used in garage doors rollers. What would it take to put a remote opener on the table saw?

[jim kraai]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Nabil Hanke <nabil...@gmail.com> wrote:

What would it take to put a remote opener on the table saw?

My father would answer with something helpful like, "A hole in his head."  But not me, nope!

[Benjamin Miller]

A 6200Z is a pretty puny bearing for a motor, but at least you can find them cheap.  If you want to get one locally, any bearing supply store will have them in stock, and you _might_ be able to find one at Fleet Farm.

Before you make a special tool to remove the bearing from the end cap, try filling the bore of the bearing with grease and whacking a 10mm rod in there.  The hydraulic pressure from the grease should force the bearing out.

- Benjamin Miller <b...@benjamintmiller.com>
________________________________________
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
    - Antoine de Saint-Exup'ery, In Design

[Nabil Hanke]

There was nowhere to capture said grease, unfortunately. It was flush. But a pewmatic cutoff wheel did the trick. That and a chisel and a hammer and hope. The shaft is fine. No worries. 

I've already acquired bearing. Not Chinese. It's from their proud island neighbor. Should be better. 

Gonna try installing it with a chainsaw and polishing compound tonight. By that, I mean I'm gonna use thermal expansion and contraction. 

Thank you,

Nabíl

[Nabil Hanke]

Replaced bearing. Little improvement. Brushes chipped off more. Likely due to misalignment from bearing holder in case melting a bit. Sanded brushes down to let it reseat without a load. Breaker pops and stator smokes. I think she's dead. 

Thank you,

Nabíl

On Jun 26, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Benjamin Miller <b...@benjamintmiller.com> wrote:

[Jeffz]

Can you add the motor from my tablesaw to it (one that used to be at the space y'all repaired), be happy to donate it back. I like cutting wood better there than at my studio :D

[jim kraai]

motor specs?  I have a new-ish 3/4hp 3450rpm single-phase available

[Nabil Hanke]

This particular table saw uses a gearbox that is part of the motor and has the blade attach directly to its output shaft. So, unfortunately it is a rather specific thing. 

Fwiw, the bearing looks like a common failure on this machine. And an equivalent new machine is $100 more than the replacement motor of $150. This feels like an inkjet printer now. 

Thank you,

Nabíl

[David Champion]

The old Craftsman table saw (JeffZ's) isn't as nice, but is functional, sounds like he's willing to let us keep it for now. That will get us by until we can find a replacement.

-dc

[Nabil Hanke]

I'm ok with borrowing it. 

I just  emailed Jack from the mickle building to see about the saw he had previously volunteered to donate. 

Thank you,

Nabíl

[Chris Johnson]

If the Mickle deal isn't a go, I will get us started on the motor replacement fund.  "I'm in for $10

Digger

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 12:51:17 PM UTC-5, Nabil Hanke wrote:

[Tim-S]

If the Mickle deal isn't a go, please let me know before we start fundraising. I'd like to try something.

[Tim-S]

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 3:48:44 PM UTC-5, Tim-S wrote:

If the Mickle deal isn't a go, please let me know before we start fundraising. I'd like to try something.

 

[But, if I can't sucker someone into sponsoring equipment, I'll also be in for $10]
 

[Jeffz]

If you want to borrow it again, I'll be at the my studio tonight by 6 and can do, just need help to bring it upstairs, sucker is heavy.

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[Nabil Hanke]

WOOD Magazine generously offered a quite good saw. It uses an induction motor that can be used on either 110v or 220, belt driven, sturdy fence, good blade guard, heavy table, large on/off paddle switch. 

It is in the space, but we need to double check that it is internally wired for the correct voltage. 

The craftsman is in the garage space for now. I'm thinking we may be able to repurpose it into a router table or not. 

Thank you,

Nabíl

[Jeffz]

Awesome, thanks WOOD Mag!

[Lucas Peters]

You are welcome!

LP

[Chris Johnson]

Another BIG THANKS to Wood Magazine.  Been a fan of theirs for years.  Nice to see their kindness matches the same level as their production quality.  More businesses should realize that they will get WAY more than they give with an attitude like that.  Kudos guys.  The saw will be put to great use.

Digger

[Tim-S]

On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 at 6:30:06 AM UTC-5, Lucas Peters wrote:

You are welcome!

LP

Another big thank you! This is absolutely a core tool for our workshop that we have struggled with for a long time -- it's hard for a group like ours to find good equipment that stands up to heavy use.

[Lucas Peters]

You are welcome.

The saw will have been wired for 110v from when we tested it.

At the risk of sounding like a nanny and stating a lot of obvious (apologies in advance):

That particular saw has a riving knife to which you can attach the included anti-kickback pawls and blade guard.

The riving knife does much to prevent kickback (by preventing warp-prone wood from pinching the back of the blade, lifting, and turning into a projectile), but the guard and pawls reduce the risk further and help account for inattentiveness and user error. (They make it harder to run your fingers through the blade, basically.) They're a pain for visibility, but for a communal workspace, I recommend they be left on. 

The only time the pawls and guard would really need to be off would be if you're making a non-through cut (groove). Or if you're making a cut that creates a really slender piece, they might need to be removed so they don't interfere. But it's safer if the slender piece falls on the offcut side (not trapped between the blade and fence). They'll also need to come off when you're changing the blade.

The riving knife is slightly lower than the top of a 10" blade. So it would only need to be removed if you're using a smaller-diameter blade, such as a dado stack, for a non-through cut.

Nabil and I checked it out and it appears that they will all work with an angled cut.

The blade that was on the saw was the factory blade, but you'll likely get much cleaner cuts and less frustration out of the freud blade that was in the box that came along.

There was a pushstick hanging on the side of the saw. That will be good for keeping fingers away from blades while controlling cuts. But since pushsticks are often sacrificial, you might end up wanting to duplicate that either by using it with a template router-bit or by cutting some out with your CNC or laser.

Same with the inserts. You'll probably want to make a stack of zero-clearance insert blanks by duplicating those included. Those create much cleaner cuts by preventing blow out on the bottom side where the blade exits the workpiece. For that, you really need an insert for every type of cut you make and thickness of blade used (One for the standard blade, one for the standard blade cutting a 45°, one for a 3/4" dado, one for a 1/2" dado, and so on.) If you have a stack, you can just pop one in as the need arises and write the cut details right on the insert. The ones on that saw attached with magnets, IIRC, so it might take a little more manufacturing than just template routing them. Here's a grainy video behind an invasive registration wall: http://www.woodmagazine.com/videos/v/70985992/making-a-zero-clearance-insert.htm

And then if someone gets ambitious, a miter sled and a crosscut sled might be helpful for dialing in some really accurate cuts. On a previous visit, I left a copy of our back-issue archive. You should find plenty of plans for those types of things on there.

Hope that's helpful rather than condescending. :)

LP

[Ray Scheufler]

Those are great tips.  I know that I need to get some more training and familiarity with the table saw so I will try to keep those in mind.  I like having tools that have build in safety features, but we still all have to remember that the tool has no feelings and doesn't know the difference between your hand and a piece of wood.

Ray Scheufler

[Jeffz]

Thank you much for the tips, I have a healthy fear for table saws that I am trying to get over because I would love to do more with woodworking and appreciate the safety features!

[Chris Johnson]

Goodie, Goodie...we get to make jigs!!!  I love making good tool "helpers".  I will check my wood vault and see what is laying around.  Lets see, thin rip jig, miter sled, box joint jig, spline jig, Ultimate cross-cut jig,.. sorry, I REALLY like jigs!  Sort of like how I like building 3d printers. 

Do we have a stack dado set for the space?

[David Champion]

We had a dado set, not sure if it's still there or not.

-dc

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[Chris Johnson]

Oh yea....and tenoning jigs, and circle-cutting jigs, and V-groove box jigs, and..........  stop me, I am losing it!  Time to do the jig!

And Jeff Z, we need to turn your fear into respect.  Fearfully using any tool is not a good idea, but having a healthy respect for what can happen can help you work much more safely

[Nabil Hanke]

Right on point Chris. Couldn't agree more. 

I would like to institute tool training to coincide with open house nights, likely augmented with a weekend series.  I think the table saw will be a great place to start. My forte is metals, not wood tools. Would anyone feel comfortable leading  training for the saw?

Thank you,

Nabíl

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[Tim-S]

If no one else steps up, I will gladly offer training on the woodworking tools -- just with the caveat that I am no expert. I've done a bit of woodworking and still have all my fingers, but that's the extent of my qualifications.

[Jeffz]

I would love a formal safety training, all my training has come from youtube videos. When I have fear of something I tend to try and obsessively learn about it to get over it :D

[Jeffrey Ollie]

Tim and I checked the table saw out and it's all square and ready to go.  The riving knife, pawls and blade guards are all lined up and ready to go as well.  As someone said earlier, unless you need to make a cut that requires them to be removed, please leave them in place.  If you do remove them, please make sure to re-install them properly.

The new saw is quite a bit wider than the old one so I think it would nice if the back area could get cleared out a bit so that there's some space around the saw to work with.  I don't know where you'd move some of the stuff - we seem to be accumulating a lot of stuff.

I didn't look at the other new saw very closely, but it's definitely going to need some TLC before it's ready to go.

Also, those long brown power strips are not safe to use on the floor.  The power cord protrudes out of the bottom and the clamp that holds the power cord in is cutting into the cord insulation.  It'll work great on a workbench if you cut a hole in the top of the workbench for the power cord to feed through.

Jeff Ollie

[Don Cady]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:29 PM, Jeffrey Ollie <je...@ocjtech.us> wrote:

Tim and I checked the table saw out and it's all square and ready to go.  The riving knife, pawls and blade guards are all lined up and ready to go as well.  As someone said earlier, unless you need to make a cut that requires them to be removed, please leave them in place.  If you do remove them, please make sure to re-install them properly.

 

Well, I have already, as I switched that provided blade for the freud one. The factory provided one was too thick for what I wanted. The pawls assembly was tricky. The knife has a small hole that _seems_ like it should be for a pin on the pawls assembly, but there is no such thing. I got it screwed down the best I could, you'll have to check if it was "proper". :(

 

The new saw is quite a bit wider than the old one so I think it would nice if the back area could get cleared out a bit so that there's some space around the saw to work with.  I don't know where you'd move some of the stuff - we seem to be accumulating a lot of stuff.

 Having enough room to safely work around the saw is important. We should clear it up a bit (I was personally waiting for the router to be moved), but we do have limited space, and will have limited space until we get to the (imaginary number) 100 member mark and can afford somewhere larger. We're going to need to think of creative ways to use the limited square footage we have. (anyone want to go upwards yet?) Your use of the word "stuff" tripped me off, but I think I'm done for now..

Don

[Bailey Mader]

Have any visitors mentioned they could donate lights and an enclosure? :(

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